Need router advice

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jbg230

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Jun 13, 2016
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It all started with what I thought was going to be a simple task. Cutting some staggered, 1/4" notches within a wood blank in order to epoxy in a piece of Corian. Actually the notch needs to be just under 1/4", but Rocker sells some undersize router bits that seem like they would work. The notch would extend about 5/8" into the blank. Since I'm still learning, I came up with three alternatives for the notching: 1) Bandsaw/scroll saw (or table saw) and then chisel. Doesn't seem accurate enough to be reproducible, multiple times. 2) Mortise drill bit. I'd have to buy a mortise attachment thing for my drill press. The correct size bit is probably not made and the whole set-up seems really inconvenient. 3) Router. The issues I'm learning about in terms of a router is that in order to create a square notch, I'd really need to do this with a router table and it would probably be best to incrementally increase the bit depth to the 5/8" mark so the wood doesn't burn. (at least that's what I was told). So the plan would be to make a short cut for all the notches, then set the final bit depth and make the final cuts so all notches are the same length.

And herein lies the problem...well, the discovery. A router table with lift mechanism or bit depth control is expensive! Especially the aftermarket router lifts. Then there's the cost of the router itself. I found the Kobalt router table (by Lowes) that comes with the router. It has an aluminum table and depth control from the top, but the reviews are sketchy. The rack & pinion mechanism sticks and you have to fiddle with it under table, which defeats the whole purpose of creating the feature of table top adjustment in the first place! Then I read- and realized- there is no ideal router table!

Looking at the Ryobis and Skils of the world, it's confusing as to what is worth spending money on and what's not. I definitely see the benefit of having a router in my small, hobby kind of a shop, even if it's to just help make quality jigs and continue to enjoy the endless varieties of segmenting and inlays. And I'm sure it's one of those things where, once you have the tool, you'll find applications for it. I like to have quality stuff, I'm just not sure where to draw the line in this instance.
Any advice from the experienced out there is certainly welcome. Thanks!
 
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leehljp

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Routers, for just getting started, it can be a can of worms and each experienced router user will give his experience and why you should not go any other way. . . . from a guy who has owned over 15 different routers over the years, and still has 7 on hand (I think).

It seems like the square notches might be better done with a contractors table saw and a dado set. Routers can do it easily and I have the set up for doing it, (router box joint jig) and I prefer the router myself for such. But with the router, it takes more experience (IMO) and more add ons.
Router box joint jig:

There are several kinds of box joint jigs; they can get expensive, and they can even be made. There is a small bit of learning curve to using box joint jigs. (It takes learning to visualize the process.)

Depth gauge: A handy too for either the router or table saw dado blade:

If you go the router set, there are numerous routes to go:
• A 1/2" router with 1/4" adapter is far more versatile. 1/2 inch routers are more powerful too, which comes in handy down the road.
• 1/4 inch regular routers work on most low end tables.
- 1/2 inch router bits are considerably stronger than 1/4 in bits.

• 1/4 TRIM routers are easier to handle but for table, - but most tables do not have the adapters for TRIM routers.
• Battery powered routers, very handy but I personally don't like them because they are very top heavy (except the 12v Bosch).

Add in: I have numerous Ryobi 18V tools, but I don't use their routers. For what you want to do and using a good table, Skill and Ryobi will be low end. Some work well but for the regular home user, the low end tools in routers do have more accuracy problems. Porter Cable, Bosch, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Metabo will not disappoint you.
 
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jbg230

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Jun 13, 2016
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Kansas City
John,
I would if I could. It's crazy, but my phone's memory is full because of the # of pictures I have on it and won't allow me to snap a photo! I just bought a large USB flash drive yesterday to transfer all my phone pics onto it. (Planned to get it done before work tomorrow AM). It's a simple design, almost like the notches in a box joint, but the notches would be further apart than what the jig creates- only 3 or 4 notches down the length of a blank.

Anyway, the jig that Hank referenced is almost spot on for what I was looking for. I didn't know there was such a thing! I think I'm thinking of a box jig that has adjustable stops so the notch can be created anywhere along the blank- staggered, symmetrically spaced or asymmetrically spaced.

The bottom line is, this is all telling me that I need a router table and I should get a router that makes sense for tables. I'll attach a photo or diagram tomorrow and maybe there's more advice to be had.
Thanks!
 

jbg230

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Jun 13, 2016
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Kansas City
Routers, for just getting started, it can be a can of worms and each experienced router user will give his experience and why you should not go any other way. . . . from a guy who has owned over 15 different routers over the years, and still has 7 on hand (I think).

It seems like the square notches might be better done with a contractors table saw and a dado set. Routers can do it easily and I have the set up for doing it, (router box joint jig) and I prefer the router myself for such. But with the router, it takes more experience (IMO) and more add ons.
Router box joint jig:

There are several kinds of box joint jigs; they can get expensive, and they can even be made. There is a small bit of learning curve to using box joint jigs. (It takes learning to visualize the process.)

Depth gauge: A handy too for either the router or table saw dado blade:

If you go the router set, there are numerous routes to go:
• A 1/2" router with 1/4" adapter is far more versatile. 1/2 inch routers are more powerful too, which comes in handy down the road.
• 1/4 inch regular routers work on most low end tables.
- 1/2 inch router bits are considerably stronger than 1/4 in bits.

• 1/4 TRIM routers are easier to handle but for table, - but most tables do not have the adapters for TRIM routers.
• Battery powered routers, very handy but I personally don't like them because they are very top heavy (except the 12v Bosch).

Add in: I have numerous Ryobi 18V tools, but I don't use their routers. For what you want to do and using a good table, Skill and Ryobi will be low end. Some work well but for the regular home user, the low end tools in routers do have more accuracy problems. Porter Cable, Bosch, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Metabo will not disappoint you.
Thanks Hank! This is great information. I didn't even know there was a jig like this. I'll chime in tomorrow with some follow up questions, but I appreciate your help with this. I love learning about this!
 
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If it were me, I would either use the table saw, router in table, or hand tools (marking knife, backsaw, chisel). Routers and accessories can vary a lot in prices and features and I would suggest buying based on your expected frequency of use and demands of it. For your example, you could get by with probably any router and a shop-made router table with fence made from MDF or plywood. Cheaper routers often have less precise adjustments so you may spend more time setting up, but could still get the same results.
 

rherrell

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Pilot Mountain, NC
I made my own jig many years ago, don't use it much any more but it works well. You need to use a blade with flat teeth on top, the one pictured works great.

There are plans for building the jig online, you just have to look.

As far as routers go you can't go wrong with Porter-Cable, they're workhorses and won't break the bank.

IMG_9103.JPG
IMG_9104.JPG
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IMG_9106.JPG
 
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NJturner

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New Jersey, USA.
I'm kind of lucky in that I have had a woodworking shop long before buying a lathe, so I've got more woodworking tools then lathe stuff, so choices are good for what you are doing. Rick's jig and Freud box joint blade for a table saw does work really well. But even the box joint blade sometimes does not provide a dead flat bottom to the slot, as the construction of the blade still requires some slight offsetting to clear the debris from the cut. Normal box joints don't require the exactness that a pen slot needs, so the blades don't always have the tightest tolerances.

On a larger piece, like a normal wooden box, its hard to see the issue, but on a pen, you are down to the thinnest material right at the point where the tip of the blade teeth were in play, so chances of gaps between the wood and the corian are higher. To get perfectly flat bottoms, I prefer a router bit with a flat cutting top, usually used for doing slots in wood. I use a table mounted Porter Cable in a microadjustable router base, so its easy to dial in the cut, but between the table insert and the router and bit, you are well over $500 to make the cut. Not always an option.

To get the best results and keep costs down, I'd stay with the box joint blade and jig, but I would use a colored epoxy to glue it in. Either buy a pre-colored epoxy to match the corian - sold as a patch material, or use some dye to get the color the epoxy as close as you can get. Will fill any potential gaps and make the cut look pretty good.
 

leehljp

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I am a little unsure of exactly what you are wanting to do. I agree with the guys above in the different approaches, but being new to dado's and box joints, I would purchase one with the exact spacing - the reason being is that if making your own, - by being off as much as 1/128" will throw everything off by the time you have made 4 or 5 cuts by 1/16" or even 1/8". Seasoned/experienced box joint makers know this and know what to do if it is off by 1/128" or 1/64". To new box join makers, it is an exercise in futility for a few hours at best. So, just starting out, use a jig with a purchased pre-set gauge.

IF you have the time to play with it, yes, you can make your own, and the experience will be worth it.
 

jbg230

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I'm kind of lucky in that I have had a woodworking shop long before buying a lathe, so I've got more woodworking tools then lathe stuff, so choices are good for what you are doing. Rick's jig and Freud box joint blade for a table saw does work really well. But even the box joint blade sometimes does not provide a dead flat bottom to the slot, as the construction of the blade still requires some slight offsetting to clear the debris from the cut. Normal box joints don't require the exactness that a pen slot needs, so the blades don't always have the tightest tolerances.

On a larger piece, like a normal wooden box, its hard to see the issue, but on a pen, you are down to the thinnest material right at the point where the tip of the blade teeth were in play, so chances of gaps between the wood and the corian are higher. To get perfectly flat bottoms, I prefer a router bit with a flat cutting top, usually used for doing slots in wood. I use a table mounted Porter Cable in a microadjustable router base, so its easy to dial in the cut, but between the table insert and the router and bit, you are well over $500 to make the cut. Not always an option.

To get the best results and keep costs down, I'd stay with the box joint blade and jig, but I would use a colored epoxy to glue it in. Either buy a pre-colored epoxy to match the corian - sold as a patch material, or use some dye to get the color the epoxy as close as you can get. Will fill any potential gaps and make the cut look pretty good.
NJ,
That is exactly what I needed to hear. So yes, a router is the better method, but I like the idea of colored epoxy using a box joint blade. I'm not entering any contests. But knowing that the blades may not create a good enough flat end surface, I may try out the Kobalt router knowing that I could return it to Lowes if I hate the results. I'd have a router, an aluminum table, feather boards, edge guide, and what they claim is the ability to adjust bit depth from the the table top. All for $179. Might be worth it for my purposes. Heck, the box joint blade from Grizzly, with shipping, is over $100. I'd get much more use from a router and table. I appreciate your reply and insight!
 

penicillin

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There are two things that I do not understand. (1) What @jbg230 wants to do and (2) what tools and equipment jbg230 already has.

Please post a drawing of what it is you want. Are the notches crosscut across the blank, or down the length of it? Do they stop or go from end-to-end? Etc.?

What tools do you already own? Chisels? Table saw? Other tools? If you must buy a tool, are there other projects you would like to take on that might guide the choice of tools to buy?
 

NJturner

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New Jersey, USA.
NJ,
That is exactly what I needed to hear. So yes, a router is the better method, but I like the idea of colored epoxy using a box joint blade. I'm not entering any contests. But knowing that the blades may not create a good enough flat end surface, I may try out the Kobalt router knowing that I could return it to Lowes if I hate the results. I'd have a router, an aluminum table, feather boards, edge guide, and what they claim is the ability to adjust bit depth from the the table top. All for $179. Might be worth it for my purposes. Heck, the box joint blade from Grizzly, with shipping, is over $100. I'd get much more use from a router and table. I appreciate your reply and insight!
jbg230 - Glad to provide some insight! One thing if you have not used a router before, be very aware of the direction of the spin of the bit. Be sure to feed the stock into the bit from the right direction, or you will get bad kickback, tearout and the stock will be ripped from your hands. Don't ask me why I know that...... Have fun and be safe!
 

jbg230

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Jun 13, 2016
Messages
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Location
Kansas City
Corian Box joint cut.jpg

So this is what I'm wanting to do. The notches would be evenly spaced along the blank and would be the same dimensions for each notch.
I do have sharp chisels and I do have those small vertical sanding strips that fit into my scroll saw that I could use by hand to smooth out a dado cut. I have a contractor style table saw. I don't have a router... yet.

That being said, I've looked at some video reviews of the $179 Kobalt table & router and even though it's an amateur version of a router and table, I think with the table top depth adjustment and aluminum table surface, it should serve my purposes well and will allow me to learn the router's capabilities. (as Penicillin has suggested)
I'm going to wait a week and see if it goes on sale at Lowes. It's been sold previously for $129.

Although the dado set is a good idea, I'd be limited in its use and as has been said above, it may take some tweaking and work arounds with colored epoxy. The router would be one and done.

Would welcome thoughts! Thanks.
 

jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
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NJ, USA.
Forget sales. No one is putting anything on sale these days. In fact they are asking prices above value worth. Do not wait and get into the project. My suggestion is do the cutting in steps. Set up a bunch of stops on a sacrificial wood fence that you attach to the table fence so it does not move. Anchor the table down. If you can use 1/2" shank bits in that router do so. Use a straight 2 flute bit. No need for spiral bits. It is a simple project if you know what you are doing. Good luck.
 
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