Need Help with African Blackwood

[DrD]

Good afternoon all. Following a year off due to a whole host of medical issues mostly all related to growing old, I'm slowly getting back into the shop.

I used to do a lot of turning with African Blackwood, and never noticed any issues with "open grain." However, using some newer - approx 6-10 years old - stock, I see there is quite a bit of open grain. As part of the finishing process a did a thin coat or 2 of Myland's sanding sealer followed by several medium to thick coats of walnut oil, light sanding and buffing between successive coats. The finished product has quite a bit of noticable open grain, not unlike what one might see with an oil finished Paduk.

I hate to ask such an obvious question, but ... would this issue "disappear" with more/heavier coats of sanding sealer? Any and all help is appreciated.

I didn't include any photos as all attempts on my part failed to show the open grain structure.

Thanks, Don

 

[jrista]

When you say open grain, what exactly do you mean?

With regards to ebony in general...I was reading about those woods in general recently. We are effectively harvesting them into oblivion. They are very slow growing trees, take hundreds of years to reach the size where the heartwoods reach that true black, and as the populations of these trees dwindle, we are harvesting younger trees. Younger ebony trees have more of a brown heartwood, rather than that dead black. I am not sure if this is what you are referring to...the ability to see more browns in the grain, that contrast with the blacks? I've been a bit disappointed in a couple orders of "ebony" or true african blackwood I've ordered in recent months, as the blanks were more brown than black.

 

[jttheclockman]

Are you looking to fill in the grain and make the blank smooth?? If so than you need to use a top coat with more volume such as thick CA. or wood filler of color. Sanding sealer will not get there. It is too thin and is not a product you want to keep layering or it will crack. Not made to be a top coat.

 

[duncsuss]

When you say open grain, what exactly do you mean?

With regards to ebony in general...I was reading about those woods in general recently. We are effectively harvesting them into oblivion. They are very slow growing trees, take hundreds of years to reach the size where the heartwoods reach that true black, and as the populations of these trees dwindle, we are harvesting younger trees. Younger ebony trees have more of a brown heartwood, rather than that dead black. I am not sure if this is what you are referring to...the ability to see more browns in the grain, that contrast with the blacks? I've been a bit disappointed in a couple orders of "ebony" or true african blackwood I've ordered in recent months, as the blanks were more brown than black.

African Blackwood = Dalbergia melanoxylon
Ebony - Diospyros (crassiflora, ebenum, spp.)

Not the same wood.

 

[jrista]

African Blackwood = Dalbergia melanoxylon
Ebony - Diospyros (crassiflora, ebenum, spp.)

Not the same wood.

Well, in either case, we are wiping them all out... :\

 

[jrista]

I hate to ask such an obvious question, but ... would this issue "disappear" with more/heavier coats of sanding sealer? Any and all help is appreciated.

Ok, looked up open grain. I don't think a sealer will help. If you really want to fill in that grain, the best way to do that would probably be to wet sand with an oil. Before you put on any kind of sealing top coat. The slurry will fill in the open grains. You could then finish with some kind of film finish (I'd recommend Pens Plus myself...vastly more durable than any kind of shellac based sealer.)

The other thing you could do is finish with CA, as the CA has to be built up, and the surface of that would be smooth.

 

[leehljp]

CLEAR shellac is the best sealer for most situations like this. And shellac accepts other finishes over itself fairly well. IF you decide to use shellac, make sure you get CLEAR shellac.

Open grain - the open capillary veins, some woods have it far more prominent than others.

 

[DrD]

Thanks to all for responding. I didn't mention that all sanding thru last micromesh - I think 12000 is wet sanding with walnut oil. When I'm speaking of open grain, it looks like very shallow, micro cracks at the surface - most commonly seen with Paduk.

Yes, I agree the quality of the wood is going down ; I do see a lot of browns in the newer African Blackwood blanks. I agree with JT that sanding sealer will be too thin to work. Guess when I'm feeling a little better, I'll try a couple more, finishing 1 with Mlyands Friction Polish and the other with Pens Plus. Although I have to say that with other woods I have noticed little difference in using Mahoney's Utility Finish - walnut oil, or Doc's Pens Plus.

There is one other finish I might try if I can find the recipe again; it is from Louisiana and I think it is call Shine Juice. Lee, if I remember correctly, I think it has clear shellac.

Thanks again for all your the responses and help from you fellow turners.

Don

 

[egnald]

There is one other finish I might try if I can find the recipe again; it is from Louisiana and I think it is call Shine Juice. Lee, if I remember correctly, I think it has clear shellac.

DrD, I think you are referring to O.B.'s Shine Juice. It is a is a recipe by O.B. Lacoste from Lafayette, Louisiana that has been promoted over the years by Cap'n Eddie Castelin in several of his videos. OB was a founding member of the Bayou Woodturners organization and a friend and mentor of Cap'n Eddie. Often called French Polish although French Polish is a technique not a finish, but O.B.'s Sine Juice could be used for finishing using the French Polishing technique.

It is a mix of 1/3 Boiled Linseed Oil, 1/3 De-Waxed Shellac, and 1/3 Denatured Alcohol. (Zinsser Bulls-Eye Sealcoat Universal Sanding Sealer is the clear de-waxed shellac that I use).

The instructions according to Cap'n Eddie is to apply a good coat of Shine Juice using a paper towel with the lathe off followed by a second coat after a few minutes. Then turn the lathe on to 500-1000 RPM, add some more Shine Juice to a paper towel and apply it slowly to the surface keeping the paper towel moving and the finish spreading. As the alcohol evaporates the shellac starts to set and the oil starts to polymerize. If it begins to get sticky, pause for a minute or two and start again continuing until it sets up. He concludes by putting a final coat of wax on top.

According to O.B. "If it was any easier, I'd have to come over to your house and do it for you."

Research shows that several users have observed that the glossiness of the finish diminishes as the shellac and boiled linseed oil completely set and that buffing sometimes helps bring the original shininess back. However, it does not appear to be a good finish for those who desire to maintain a high gloss.

Regards.
Dave

 

[DrD]

Thanks David, that's the one! How are things in central Nebraska? We spent 5 really nice years in the Omaha area - Papillion. We miss the people and the food; can't say the same for the weather though.

Don

 

[egnald]

Thanks David, that's the one! How are things in central Nebraska? We spent 5 really nice years in the Omaha area - Papillion. We miss the people and the food; can't say the same for the weather though.

Don

Hi Don,

The winter has been very dry and very windy. It's the first time I remember having so many grass fires. There is quite a political battle starting up between 3 Republican candidates for Governor. One candidate is from Omaha, one from Fremont, and one from Columbus. They all share pretty much the same set of conservative values so they all seem to be campaigning on bashing each other rather than pushing what their own visions. The current governor, Pete Ricketts, is endorsing one candidate and the Lieutenant Governor, Mike Foley, is endorsing a different one. It's been quite interesting but it is definitely going to get old before November gets here.

We are actually thinking of moving from Columbus to be closer to Omaha and/or Lincoln in a couple of years. Our oldest son lives in Lincoln and our youngest boy lives in Omaha. Our oldest daughter is transferring to UNO as a junior next year and our youngest will be a senior in high school. We used to live in Fremont and really miss the short drive into Omaha. An extra two hours on the road doesn't seem like much, but it has really curtailed just going out to eat - and now, considering the price of gasoline... Wow.

It is always good to hear from folks that have lived in Nebraska.

Dave

 

[DrD]

We understand that several of our favorite places have closed: Ross out by the racetrack, Johnny's Steaks, the BAKERY/deli off Pacific in District 66, one or both of the old German/Bavarian restuarants - one in Bellvue, the other right between LaVista and Ralston. Also understand others are still there like La Casa and Casio's. Great place, Omaha!

Don

 

[egnald]

I found this photo of O.B. Lacoste in an October 2008 edition of "The Bayou Skew" a newsletter of the Bayou Woodturners group. It also has a bunch of pictures of Eddie Castelin who was demonstrating the finer points of turning a delicate finial and making a box. I really enjoy knowing some of the historical aspects of woodturning. - Dave

 

[jrista]

Thanks to all for responding. I didn't mention that all sanding thru last micromesh - I think 12000 is wet sanding with walnut oil. When I'm speaking of open grain, it looks like very shallow, micro cracks at the surface - most commonly seen with Paduk.

Yes, I agree the quality of the wood is going down ; I do see a lot of browns in the newer African Blackwood blanks. I agree with JT that sanding sealer will be too thin to work. Guess when I'm feeling a little better, I'll try a couple more, finishing 1 with Mlyands Friction Polish and the other with Pens Plus. Although I have to say that with other woods I have noticed little difference in using Mahoney's Utility Finish - walnut oil, or Doc's Pens Plus.

There is one other finish I might try if I can find the recipe again; it is from Louisiana and I think it is call Shine Juice. Lee, if I remember correctly, I think it has clear shellac.

Thanks again for all your the responses and help from you fellow turners.

Don

I would only use the Pens Plus. There is a difference with that, and its the synthetic microcrystalline wax. Other friction polishes do not have that, and it is, IMO, the magic ingredient. I've finished enough pens with normal friction polishes and Pens Plus now, and I've found Pens Plus to be vastly superior when applied right. I've finished plenty of pens with Mylands Friction Polish, and while they look good initially, down the road...and for some I have its been oh, provably 21-22 months, they have all dulled and lost everything about the original finish that made it look nice. The Pens Plus, on the other hand, with that super crystal clear microcrystalline wax, the pens I finish with that look as good the day they were made all the time.

 

[DrD]

Thanks, Jon for the heads up about Mylands friction polish. A long, long time ago, when I lived in Ohio and was turning a lot of pens, I found a sanding sealer and a friction polish sold by someone who I have been led to believe either moved to Canada, of sold his business off to a Canadian. Now that was a fantastic friction polish; the polish itself, had a very short shelf life in the can. For the life of me I cannot remember the name; it seems like it was his last name followed by the words Sanding Sealer of Friction Polish. He also sold the European Round Top kit - knock off of the Mont Blanc - at a better price than Berea Hardwoods.

I like the results I get with Pens Plus, so I'll work on somehow filling these open "pores"/"grain" in the African Blackwood with something else. It may be as simple as letting the freshly wet sanded piece dry overnight or longer, lightly buffing and then to the next grit.

Don

 

[jrista]

Thanks, Jon for the heads up about Mylands friction polish. A long, long time ago, when I lived in Ohio and was turning a lot of pens, I found a sanding sealer and a friction polish sold by someone who I have been led to believe either moved to Canada, of sold his business off to a Canadian. Now that was a fantastic friction polish; the polish itself, had a very short shelf life in the can. For the life of me I cannot remember the name; it seems like it was his last name followed by the words Sanding Sealer of Friction Polish. He also sold the European Round Top kit - knock off of the Mont Blanc - at a better price than Berea Hardwoods.

I like the results I get with Pens Plus, so I'll work on somehow filling these open "pores"/"grain" in the African Blackwood with something else. It may be as simple as letting the freshly wet sanded piece dry overnight or longer, lightly buffing and then to the next grit.

Don

Search these forums for my name and Pens Plus. I've developed my own approach to applying it that can deliver a glass-like crystal-clear shine. It took me some time, but I think I've found that the attempts to "build up" a Pens Plus finish are a mistake. These days, I approach it in a very specific way, with very very high grit sanding of the wood (which can be oil wet sanded using walnut oil, or dry sanded with preliminary coats of walnut oil), then a very high friction heat liberal first-pass application for the initial coat of Pens Plus. Any subsequent coats are applied with just a tiny amount of Pens Plus, barely enough to get a dryish-wet dab on the applicator, and are really only to make sure you have fully coated the blank and to take care of any dry/dull spots. I also make certain to never touch the finish until its well and truly dry. That might take a couple of hours, maybe longer, depends a bit on temp. I always take the blank off the lathe without touching, drop it on a little dowel rack I made for drying pen blanks, and leave it for 8 hours before touching it.