Need help replacing my table saw

[JoeCallahan]

So I currently have an old, belt driven, metric ton of cast iron in the form of a craftsman table saw. It's the first and only table saw I've ever owned, and has worked like a champ for the past several years(and still does!). But it's time for an upgrade. I'm looking for a saw with a rock-solid fence, and all around high accuracy adjustments. I'm also at a point where I can't deal with the dust that my saw spits out. Anyone who's ever seen or used a belt driven saw knows that dust collection is damn near impossible.
What I want is a decent quality cabinet or hybrid style saw that I can run on a 20A 115v circuit. I'd absolutely love something like the Laguna Fusion F2, or Grizzly G0771Z. But I'm facing the most common problem in woodworking...a severe lack of money. I'm only 22 and haven't been able to work since late 2019, due to a complex neurological condition. I could empty my checking account, my savings, the cash in my wallet, and the little bit of spare change between the couch cushions, and it still wouldn't even get me a jobsite saw. I've looked all over the internet for people selling their used saws. But all I find are crappy jobsite saws, or belt-driven saws way worse than mine. Even if I was fortunate enough to actually sell my current saw, I'd probably only make $100 at best.
Do any of you have any advice for me? Is there somewhere I'm not looking? And please don't tell me that I should just save up. Like I said, I haven't worked in 2 1/2 years. I have no income of any kind. I don't have any kind of shop set up currently since my mom and I moved houses, so I can't do any turning. I only have a few pens left to sell, but no one is buying anyway.

 

[jttheclockman]

Joe I feel for you and your situation. A couple things come to mind and the first is your need for a tablesaw. Why? Second is do not sell jobsite saws short. You have to realize until you can get in a more formidable situation money wise you may have to sacrifice but still do what you are looking to do. It would help to explain what it is you want to do. May I also ask what is that you do not like about the saw you have? With a decent tablesaw sled you could probably improve its ability. Dust collection adds to the price of any saw.

 

[jeff]

I agree with JT on all points. Would it be worth trying to bring your existing saw up to your expectations fence-wise? Maybe a panel sled and a crosscut sled would solve most of your issues. Dust collection is a bear on those old saws. I had a craftsman for years and that was my main gripe. You can improve the situation, but it's never as good as a cabinet saw. There are some pretty nice jobsite saws out there. Check out the Tool Box Buzz Review from a couple years ago. (Those guys do an awesome job on reviews!). As JT asked, why do you need a tablesaw? Are you breaking down big panels? Check out tracksaws. I have the Makita and I love it. Good luck.

 

[MRDucks2]

Hey, Joe - one more here on asking about needs. I grew up on an old bandsaw and never bought a tablesaw until I was in my mid to later 40's. I always had a circular saw and thought getting a set of aluminum guides for it was high end. Between that and ultimately a powered miter saw there was little that I could not create.

I did eventually buy a rigid job site saw on the great stand/cart combo they have and it Carrie's through me 7 or 8 years, but it's biggest convenience for me was ease of storage.

The first saw I really wanted was a bandsaw and the 14" Rikon has done all I have asked of it in a more compact footprint and about half the cost of the F2.

Weigh your needs vs your wants first and you may come up with more options within a budget you can work with.

 

[sbwertz]

For many years the only power saw we had (except for a portable circular saw) was a radial arm saw. I inherited my grandfather's (then my father's) 1949 14" Delta band saw, and it is what I use the most. My husband does cabinetmaking, and finally bought the granite topped Ridgid table saw to replace his small bench-top table saw. Loves it. I'm basically scared to death of a table saw after I saw one kick back a 2x2 and put it clear through a wall when working in the theater scene shop many years ago. So my husband cuts blanks for me on the table saw. I do everything else on the old Delta band saw. They just don't make them like that any more!

 

[Joebobber]

Im disabled from a cancer battle I had when I was 24. I completely understand your dilemma. For me, nothing is better than Facebook and Pawn shops. Not to mention the auctions that are always happening on the weekends all over the place. You have to spend alot of time searching, but if you do that daily it will pay off. Plus if you are like me, you have time to kill.

 

[TDahl]

If it is just the dust factor, how about adding a dust collection and air filtration system to your shop. I know some people have gone with WEN units in the ship and swear by them. Here is a link: https://wenproducts.com/collections/dust-management

 

[mgoetzke]

I moved up in TS's until I purchased a new Delta cabinet saw. Then after three years I sold it since I discovered a track saw and thought I could do without a TS. I was wrong so I bought a couple small portable saws and sold them because I didn't like them. Then I found a 1950 Unisaw that needed a complete rebuild and my son and I made it look/run like new again. It had an old Jet-Lock fence that worked but I replaced it with a Biess style. It's on a mobile base and takes up much less room than the newer cabinet saws. I have a DC port in the base and a Sharkguard blade guard with dust collection.

Like suggested above maybe just bring your current saw up a step or two. - Good Luck

 

[aldjmc]

The new shiny toys are always tempting, and I would love a Sawstop myself, but my old Beaver 3200 8 inch table saw is older than I am but might never die and is more saw than I will ever need. The dust collects in a box below, and I have a small crosscut sled a makeshift outfeed table and a weirdly accurate fence / tape measure combo that doesn't let me down! It's an ugly set-up but she cuts and that all I want her to do.

If I were you, I would hold off on blowing everything I have for something I already have. You are young and have a lot of years of woodworking ahead of you. Tune-up your current saw to be as precise as you can and then make a few things, sell a few things, and set aside a chunk of the cash for "capital upgrades" such as a new table saw. You might find out there are other tools you want and need before you get a new TS! When you do decide to buy, get the one you want, not the one that saves you a couple hundred bucks. The old saying "buy once, cry once" applies!

 

[bassen]

I have a smiler craftsman table saw that I have had for over 25 years and as time will do (and some neglect) started taking a little more to keep true.
I had a chance to purchase another craftsman when they were closing the store near me , It was the floor model so it was surely out of true but the last one I had lasted for a long time so I went with it and it still doing all I need it to and more.
This saw is now 15 years old and would not take anything for it.
So i Agree with aldjmc try to true up what you have and build skills with it and if you do need a new one at a point you will have a good base and feel for what is needed in a saw that will preform the work you need how you need it to.
Mine is a belt driven (which i like because if i cause a bind the belt will slip a little and keep from causing other problems I know it should not be set this way but i have learned how to use it like this), Home made dust shield and modified wheel base, mainly use a cross cut sled that has "T" track in it , helps to be able to hold and layout work with it.
A sled will make an old saw like a new one and the first sled will not be the last, each one will develop into a very useful tool.
(sorry to ramble on but the table saw in my shop is in my top three tools)

 

[Bryguy]

I have a Craftsman I bought over thirty years ago. With the sled I built for pen making it is still serving me well, making excellent cuts and meeting my pen making needs. You don't need a new saw. Make yourself a sled (Check out the library here for table saw sled ideas.)

 

[Mortalis]

What is your budget? Realistically!
Without knowing what your budget is, no one can advise you.
A proper dust collection system could run as much if not more than a new table saw.
If you need accuracy and your table saw runs well then build yourself a nice fence. John Heinz is good for that.
Buying used,.....you already have used. Chances are buying used is buying someone else's problem(s).
A decent new table saw will set you back at least $500 - $700
Rigid comes with a life time warranty. Porter Cable is ok. Decent contractor saw will be less expensive than the same level cabinet saw.

 

[egnald]

Hello from Nebraska. The first higher-end (at least for me) was a Bosch sliding compound miter saw and it's brother a direct drive 10-inch contractors saw. Both have served me very well. The saw I use the most however has become my Shop Fox aka Grizzly 14-inch band saw. Second in line is the Bosch miter saw, and coming in last is the table saw.

For me it is simply a comfort and whether real or perceived, the safety factor. For larger stock traditionally cut on a table saw, a Makita track saw is my first choice and the table saw comes in last. For the most part it winds up getting used more for the table than the saw, the exception being ripping boards to a precise and constant width usually because I am going to be gluing them up.

That might be different if I had more space in my shop to keep infeed and outfeed tables set up, etc.

Good luck with whichever direction you wind up taking.

Regards,
Dave

 

[sbwertz]

Dave, we have problems with infeed also. We got some little tripod mounted rollers that support the stock on the infeed side. Outfeed is covered by a twelve foot workbench. My husband needs the table saw more than I do, but it is a great way to make perfectly square pen blanks from weird shaped tree pieces! I rarely buy blanks. I befriended a tree trimmer and he keeps me supplied with all sorts of pretty wood. (Most recently a root ball from a paloverde. Paloverde wood itself is very bland, but the root ball has some amazing grain. )

 

[jrista]

Personally, my opinion on Laguna has become rather tainted. I had (still have, actually) a Laguna Revo 1524 (bit over a year old now, started having problems less than 6 months in), where some of their "innovative" design has caused me some real problems. They have effectively ghosted me at this point, its been the better part of a year, and I doubt the issue is going to be fixed. I also had the local Woodcraft guys talking to me about Laguna recently, and it sounds like they created a real mess with their recent planer model, and had to recall every one.

I think Laguna has some ideas that sounds REALLY GREAT on paper. The problem I've been running into with them is their implementation...I think they need to spend more time engineering their designs properly, with more accuracy and precision, and just put more thought into how they implement. I talk to a number of Laguna owners these days, and it seems to be real hit or miss, whether someone gets a Laguna device that is rock solid, or riddled with problems.

Ok, that little...warning (and personal opinion) out of the way!

I picked up a Jet JWBS-14SFX during black Friday sales. Its my third Jet machine, following their 17" free-standing drill press, which followed the Jet 1000b overhead air filter. I also recently just picked up the PowerMatic 3520C lathe (to replace the Laguna, since I can't use it for what I bought it for...which is mostly turning larger items.) Jet and PowerMatic are in effect the same company (owned by the same parent), and I've really, really liked the quality. So far I haven't even had an inkling of any problems with any of my Jet machines. The air filter is I'd say a year and a half or so old now, still works like a charm. The drill press is close to a year old, works like a charm.

There are not a ton of bells and whistles on these machines...but, I've never been wanting for any either. These machines do their job, get it done, get it done well, and its not complicated using them.

 

[moke]

Joe,
Not to pile on....but what you have there is a good saw. I had one for a very long time, now I have a PCS Saw stop. I had worked on my Craftsman for years. I had a tool maker that was a good friend make me balanced pullies, and bought a Delta Unifence, got a segmented belt, and tried hard to make it work well with Dust Collection (DC). I have several thoughts. First the unifence was better in my mind than the Saw Stop fence. Don't get me wrong, I love the Saw Stop and would do it again and again... The DC on any table saw, unless you use an overarm DC and blade guard is not that great. I have an overarm and hate it...a lot. I use a home built crosscut sled, unless I am ripping. The sled and zero clearance blade plates, do not do great things for DC.
I have been doing woodworking for 40 years now. I have DC on every machine, in one way or another. Without even thinking I can tell you my TS is the dirtiest machine I have. So I would do the best I can, with the saw. I would build an outfeed table, that would deflect shaving down and in, around the motor. Then at least the shavings are all in the same area. Look for an aftermarket fence on ebay....
Then also....with tools price increasing, so has the price of used tools. I would say your saw is worth 200 to 250....I have even seen some on Craigs list that were clean for 300 that did not last long. Yes they used to go for 100 to 150...but not recently.

The saw stop is a great saw, but the one thing I have noticed where it truly excels is the 3 hp motor. Everything else works pretty similar,except smoother. I doubt you have ever noticed it being under powered at 1.5 hp. Oh, also on the craftsman I put that fence on then built a counter top right side extended, strengthen it with an angle iron.

Further, look at some of the saw "carts" that folks have built. Some are rolling workshops with built in DC and router tables and out feeds. I belong to Lumber Jocks and there are some nice ones if you google them in "projects". Or look in Youtube. I agree the legs the some of the Craftsman had left a little to be surprised. You could build this cart in stages as money allows.

Also one of the best improvements is a good blade, but you don't have to get carried away. Diablo or something similar should get you by.

When I was your age, I bought what I call "C" tools, and steadily have worked myself to "A" tools in the last 40 years. Take it slow, watch for deals and save your cash.

Good luck

 

[JoeCallahan]

Thank you everyone for all your advice and ideas! I truly appreciate it. After reading through everything here, as well as all the feedback I got from the different Facebook groups I'm in, I've happily decided to keep my current saw and work on making modifications to meet my needs.

To answer the question of what I use my table saw for.... well, just about everything. I've accumulated at least a dozen or so different sleds that I've built for various different projects.
I have:

• a large and a small crosscut sled with embedded t-track for stops and hold-downs.
• one Norm Abrams style crosscut sled for squaring up small to medium sized panels.
• A tapering sled that doubles as a jointer sled seeing as I don't have a jointer to square up stock.
• A dedicated celtic-knot/scalloped pen blank jig that can make either 45 or 60 degree cuts.
• A circle cutting jig since I only have a rinky-dink joke of a bandsaw that I'm planning on scrapping for parts.
• And at least a half-dozen other specialty sleds for various different uses

So I'm covered when it comes to sleds and jigs!
The main things that bother me about the saw are the motor hanging off the back(but I'll just have to learn to keep living with it), the near impossible task of efficient dust collection, and the saw's difficulty holding precise angles when I bevel the blade. In regards to dust collection, I've already done every single idea and partial solution that I could find suggested or shown on YouTube and various forums. All to no avail. But I was actually given a really great idea for a box with a dust port, made from melamine or laminate, that would mount directly to the blade housing inside the saw, and would move with the whole assembly when I angle the blade. The idea came from a retired mechanical engineer turned woodworker, that reached out to me on Facebook. He's actually been helping me with designing it to fit my saw exactly. We've been collaborating on a couple 3D models that we send back and forth to one another. I asked him if, once we have a final design that I've built and that works, if he'd be ok with me posting our plans here on the forum, and in the different Facebook groups. He said he'd be more than happy to see the plans shared, and that he would also share them to his different forums and groups as well. I still don't have power to my shop space yet, and we're still working on the prototype design, so it'll be quite some time before I can give it a try. But if we can get it to work the way it's supposed to, then I look forward to sharing the plans for our design here with all of you!

Thank you again for all of your advice and kind words. This is exactly why I love this forum and this community!

 

[ed4copies]

On the internet, everyone starts as "anonymous". So, a quick word about Joe.
He is one of the "regulars" at the Chicago IAP meetings, so I have met and spoken with him often.
Yes, he is early 20's, but he is innovative and hands-on. Capable of tackling the challenges of upgrading
his equipment. I have no doubt that he will find a workable solution with whatever help we can give.

FWIW,
Ed

 

[Joebobber]

On the internet, everyone starts as "anonymous". So, a quick word about Joe.
He is one of the "regulars" at the Chicago IAP meetings, so I have met and spoken with him often.
Yes, he is early 20's, but he is innovative and hands-on. Capable of tackling the challenges of upgrading
his equipment. I have no doubt that he will find a workable solution with whatever help we can give.

FWIW,
Ed

Yeah and he does amazing work with his saw!

 

[jttheclockman]

Joe I have an older Delta contractor saw as my main tablesaw and it has the motor hanging out the back and I have no problem with that at all. As far as dust collection goes, the only thing I made was a box underneath the table to collect some of the dust. Have a dust collector with a 4" hose connected to it. Yes the hose can be a problem because I have to step over it all the time when working behind the saw but learned to live with it. Dust collection becomes sort of a moot point when using sleds and zero clearance inserts because it cuts off the top of the blade where most dust is created anyway. The blade configuration on some type blades can carry the dust downward to the bottom of the base where it is easily collected. But as on mine the back is wide open also. I tried closing off the back with plans that I too saw on utube but was just not worth the effort. Last year I bought an overhead blade dust collector system that I want to try at some time. I saw a video of a person who built something that looked possible and is easily removable and swings out of the way easily. need to work on that. But I have just come to the conclusion the best thing for me anyway is to use a air cleaner and to vac the dust up after each project and that is how I handle the dust on that tool.

As far as sleds go you are on the right track with the types you mentioned. If built right they will maintain accuracy and also repeatability. The thing about bevel cutting and holding angles can be twofold. First if you have runout on the arbor where the blade mounts then sleds and guides will not correct that. Holding angles means the locking system is not working well. May need to look into that. You can also make sleds to cut bevels too. Good luck. Makes lots of money from your woodworking projects and upgrade the shop. Have fun One other thing I should mention is with a lighter saw and smaller HP motor it is better to use thin kerf blades. Today the technology is better in their designs than years ago. I like the Freud line of blades. When sawing hardwoods and exotics it is best to let the saw do the work and find that happy medium of push power needed to get smooth cuts and no burning. And as always sharp blades is a must. Not only for cutting purposes but for safety too. A sharp blade can save you more than a dull one when it comes to safety. Sleds and push sticks are a must too. If making push sticks make them so they both push easily from the rear but also long enough to apply downward pressure and the handle is high enough to keep fingers away from blades. I have included a quick photo of ones I like to make.

 

[JoeCallahan]

On the internet, everyone starts as "anonymous". So, a quick word about Joe.
He is one of the "regulars" at the Chicago IAP meetings, so I have met and spoken with him often.
Yes, he is early 20's, but he is innovative and hands-on. Capable of tackling the challenges of upgrading
his equipment. I have no doubt that he will find a workable solution with whatever help we can give.

FWIW,
Ed

This means the world coming from you Ed! Thank you so much! I've come to doubt my own abilities and what I'm capable of in the past year and a half. Life has really left me beaten and broken for a long time now. But you and the rest of the amazing people I've come to know through the IAP have all reminded me that no matter what I've been through, I'm still the same man I've always been. I'm more skilled than most others my age, and my ingenuity is inexplicably great. These traits are a part of me, and no one can take that away. So again, thank you for reminding me who I am, and what I can do.

 

[Jarod888]

If your job site saw has an open base, I would start with building a solid base cabinet for it. You could extend the back to accomdate the motor, maybe make a door or something to access the belt, or make the cabinet which covers the motor "removable" so you can reach the innerds as needed. Build some angled shelves into the actual solid base cabinet and funnel the dust to one central port.

For your dust collection, adding a dust deputy or "trash can cyclone" to your vacuum, will do wonders.