Thanks for the compliments guys!
Sorry Roy but I couldnt resist - do you want to see the others???
See, Mommy I told you and he's doing it again.
Jim as has been stated many times here in the US any Ivory imported after 1989 is not legal, in countries like South Africa it is legally harvested from Elephants that die of natural causes... Is pouching still done, I'm sure it is but don't lump the legally obtained ivory with pouches as most pouched ivory goes to China.
Jim as has been stated many times here in the US any Ivory imported after 1989 is not legal, in countries like South Africa it is legally harvested from Elephants that die of natural causes... Is pouching still done, I'm sure it is but don't lump the legally obtained ivory with pouches as most pouched ivory goes to China.
Jim as has been stated many times here in the US any Ivory imported after 1989 is not legal, in countries like South Africa it is legally harvested from Elephants that die of natural causes... Is pouching still done, I'm sure it is but don't lump the legally obtained ivory with pouches as most pouched ivory goes to China.
Thanks for jumping in here Roy
Actually Jim, the legal sale of harvested ivory supports anti poaching and other "green" initiatives.
People use all sorts of alternative materials - snake skins, antler, buffalo horn etc - I dont see this as being any different other than the elephant died of natural causes
Jim as has been stated many times here in the US any Ivory imported after 1989 is not legal, in countries like South Africa it is legally harvested from Elephants that die of natural causes... Is pouching still done, I'm sure it is but don't lump the legally obtained ivory with pouches as most pouched ivory goes to China.
Thanks for jumping in here Roy
Actually Jim, the legal sale of harvested ivory supports anti poaching and other "green" initiatives.
People use all sorts of alternative materials - snake skins, antler, buffalo horn etc - I dont see this as being any different other than the elephant died of natural causes
Written with respect Terry,
I don't see the balance here. Buffalo are like cattle, there are many many many thousands and are harvested by those for either consumption or to feed other wild life. Snakes, again populations exceed what is considered an endangered level. Elephants are well documented in their plight, and with the recent efforts they are under protection to some limited degree. I do read about poaching that still to this day exists, that is a fact that hurts us all. What I have a very hard time with is the use of the ivory no matter how it is harvested. Maybe I should just ignore the fact that an animal under extreme duress has had part of it's body cultivated for this type of use.
Terry, I don't live in SA, nor have I ever been there. I respect that you made a nice pen, but you certainly must have thought that given the history of what has happened in the past that this can also go to stir conversation. I am still upset, these are my sincere and honest feelings.
Jim I respect your view on the subject of Elephant Ivory, we must keep this as friendly as possible. I am not a hunter but I enjoy a deer back-strap or sausage but I pull the trigger on Bambi, but I know that if the herds of deer are not thinned they will be no more deer in the future as there is not enough forage to support unlimited growth of the herds. Since CITES in 1989 the Elephant heard in South Africa has grown by a large percentage. The only ivory that is harvested is by the government and harvested from elephants that died from natural causes and the money from those sales are used to control pouching.
So in effect the use of legal ivory gathered and sold is helping the elephant.
Jim I still am glad that even though we differ on this we can still do it in a friendly manner.
Jim
You are entitled to your opinion, as we all are!! Yes, I live here, I am an avid conservationist and photographer. I do not participate in any form of hunting. I do, however, understand, as a conservationist, the need for things like culling. It is a world recognised practice.
Our country is not a rich country by international standards but certainly by African standards.
The process of selling off ivory that has been harvested from natural deaths and culling processes serves to fund conservation.
Your argument regarding Buffalo in the thousands is not applicable in South Africa or Southern Africa for that matter - this may be different in the States.
Don't forget that, like Buffalo, Elephants were once in the millions in Africa. Any species can fall to the same fate that became the Elephant - anyone who does not believe that is a fool!
The fact that I support legal trade in ivory means that I support conservation, for each and every piece of ivory that I purchase, helps fund conservation.
What would you have us do with all the ivory recovered from culling and deaths by natural causes?
This is my opinion, to which I am entitled - it is not one of ignorance but rather education.
Please never ignore your your beliefs or principles and I respect your opinion but at the same time, we live in a democratic world, one which allows us to make such choices, to live by certain principles and enjoy the freedom of such beliefs.
Lastly, it was never my intention to cause controversy over a pen. We have so much else in the world to focus our energy on I certainly wouldnt want to be the cause of anyones emotional distress and to that end I shall refrain from any further postings containing ivory.
My sincerest apologies for any offense I may have caused you Jim!
Respectfully
Terry
Jim as has been stated many times here in the US any Ivory imported after 1989 is not legal, in countries like South Africa it is legally harvested from Elephants that die of natural causes... Is pouching still done, I'm sure it is but don't lump the legally obtained ivory with pouches as most pouched ivory goes to China.
Thanks for jumping in here Roy
Actually Jim, the legal sale of harvested ivory supports anti poaching and other "green" initiatives.
People use all sorts of alternative materials - snake skins, antler, buffalo horn etc - I dont see this as being any different other than the elephant died of natural causes
Written with respect Terry,
I don't see the balance here. Buffalo are like cattle, there are many many many thousands and are harvested by those for either consumption or to feed other wild life. Snakes, again populations exceed what is considered an endangered level. Elephants are well documented in their plight, and with the recent efforts they are under protection to some limited degree. I do read about poaching that still to this day exists, that is a fact that hurts us all. What I have a very hard time with is the use of the ivory no matter how it is harvested. Maybe I should just ignore the fact that an animal under extreme duress has had part of it's body cultivated for this type of use.
Terry, I don't live in SA, nor have I ever been there. I respect that you made a nice pen, but you certainly must have thought that given the history of what has happened in the past that this can also go to stir conversation. I am still upset, these are my sincere and honest feelings.
Terry, Both pens are beautiful, I'm saddened to see this wind up in a P.E.T.A. (which to my way stands for People Eating Tasty Animals, Jim there are several places to buy Legally obtained Elephant Ivory, while I considered CITIES to be just one mor bunny hugger group, through their management and assistance many endangered species, (all except the American middle class families) have made some inroads towards a recovery, Many of the tusks, pelts, and bones that are recovered for illegally taken animals are auctioned off and that money goes back to help the vanishing species. It's noit enough to stop the poaching, but it does help considerably. Were it not for the protection programs, several species would be gone. I notice you live in Canada, What about the Polar and Grizzly bears not to mention the common Black Bears that have no place to hunt other than city dumps, and then your garbage cans. They are a definite risk to the humans that have encroached on their territory, I imagine it's the same in the areas of Africa where the Elephant herds roam. and like us some of the poor things die of natural causes, so why not do the green thing and utilize what's left of the carcase! I would hope they could do the same with mine. That would cut down on the human remains dumps, (Cemetery's) eventually that hallowed ground will be needed to sustain the living population in the future.
What about the wood that we use, some of these timbers are on an extreme danger list.