Middle Eastern Men with Back Packs

[sbell111]

Also I believe the key behaviors that caused concern for Andy were the combination of the "carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth and speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone" , followed by pulling out an electronic device and growing louder (which I read as almost yelling).

Here's how I read it.

Person is told to go to A and service machine. They drive over, get out and get a call. They are trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it. He's walking back and forth as he tries and doesn't go in as THAT wouldn't be profession while he's on the call. Grabs whatever out to make sure he's explaining it right and starts telling them in a frustrated voice.

Person comes out and confronts him. He explains. They call his company and they lose a contract.

I call it overreaction.

AND OUR COMPANY CALLED IT LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM. Because of the nature of the businesses in this location (banking, investments and real estate, etc, where many times large sums of cash are transacted -and we have 8 locations-all similar to this one), all visitors are required to sign in and be announced.

The company who accepted these contracts KNEW the procedure, and yet, didn't honor them.

As one reply stated, all that had to happen was for the tech to sign in and let us verify him- problem over.

We just need service people that will do it the way we need it. Today just proved we hired the wrong company.

According to the OP, he was 'outside the door of your office complex'. Presumably, your rules don't require visitors to sign in and be announced until they actually enter your 'office complex'.

If it were me, I would have done exactly what you are upset with that guy about. I would have finished my call and then came in. Of course, I'm a white guy so I likely would not have had to explain myself to the police.

 

[sbell111]

So if he hadn't come in, how could he announce himself?

By finishing his other business in the parking lot or in his car, until he was ready to enter the facility......JUST LIKE ALL OF THE OTHER VENDORS THAT PROVIDE SERVICES THERE DO IT!

So I'm driving to a business. I arrive and park my car. I exit the car and walk toward the entrance when my cel rings. It's my wife, so I answer it. It's a stressful call, so I can't get off the phone immediately. My choices are as follows. 1) return to my car to have the conversation, 2) enter the building whilst on the phone, or 3) finish my call and then enter the building. The only scenario where I don't take option three is if it is raining.

 

[sbell111]

If you are walking down the street and a big white dog comes out and bites you and runs off, and you need to find out if the dog had it's rabies shot, you don't stop people walking little brown dogs and ask them to present their rabies tag.

Your analogy isn't apt because the OP wasn't on the look out for a specific brand of terrorist, or at least he shouldn't be since the average wacko killer in his area is not the bearded, turbaned twentysomething.

The only way your analogy works is if you have never been bitten by a dog but are wary of being bitten because others not necessarily in your area have been. Still, you only consider the white dogs to be a threat.

 

[PenMan1]

Also I believe the key behaviors that caused concern for Andy were the combination of the "carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth and speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone" , followed by pulling out an electronic device and growing louder (which I read as almost yelling).

Here's how I read it.

Person is told to go to A and service machine. They drive over, get out and get a call. They are trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it. He's walking back and forth as he tries and doesn't go in as THAT wouldn't be profession while he's on the call. Grabs whatever out to make sure he's explaining it right and starts telling them in a frustrated voice.

Person comes out and confronts him. He explains. They call his company and they lose a contract.

I call it overreaction.

AND OUR COMPANY CALLED IT LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM. Because of the nature of the businesses in this location (banking, investments and real estate, etc, where many times large sums of cash are transacted -and we have 8 locations-all similar to this one), all visitors are required to sign in and be announced.

The company who accepted these contracts KNEW the procedure, and yet, didn't honor them.

As one reply stated, all that had to happen was for the tech to sign in and let us verify him- problem over.

We just need service people that will do it the way we need it. Today just proved we hired the wrong company.

According to the OP, he was 'outside the door of your office complex'. Presumably, your rules don't require visitors to sign in and be announced until they actually enter your 'office complex'.

If it were me, I would have done exactly what you are upset with that guy about. I would have finished my call and then came in. Of course, I'm a white guy so I likely would not have had to explain myself to the police.

And if you had done that, here, today you would be just as fired as the guy who acted "insane" at a customer's location. You'd be fired whether you are white, green, pink, black, brown, yellow or red.

Turns out that I wan't the only company concerned about this guy AND apparently he has a history of erratic behavior and yesterday was the "last straw" for his company. Too bad one angry person cost his company SO MUCH MONEY.

The COOL part of recognizing and embracing diversity is that THE RULES ARE THE RULES-regardless of color, race, religion, sexual preferences, etc. Nobody gets "special" treatment.

 

[sbell111]

Also I believe the key behaviors that caused concern for Andy were the combination of the "carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth and speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone" , followed by pulling out an electronic device and growing louder (which I read as almost yelling).

Here's how I read it.

Person is told to go to A and service machine. They drive over, get out and get a call. They are trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it. He's walking back and forth as he tries and doesn't go in as THAT wouldn't be profession while he's on the call. Grabs whatever out to make sure he's explaining it right and starts telling them in a frustrated voice.

Person comes out and confronts him. He explains. They call his company and they lose a contract.

I call it overreaction.

AND OUR COMPANY CALLED IT LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM. Because of the nature of the businesses in this location (banking, investments and real estate, etc, where many times large sums of cash are transacted -and we have 8 locations-all similar to this one), all visitors are required to sign in and be announced.

The company who accepted these contracts KNEW the procedure, and yet, didn't honor them.

As one reply stated, all that had to happen was for the tech to sign in and let us verify him- problem over.

We just need service people that will do it the way we need it. Today just proved we hired the wrong company.

According to the OP, he was 'outside the door of your office complex'. Presumably, your rules don't require visitors to sign in and be announced until they actually enter your 'office complex'.

If it were me, I would have done exactly what you are upset with that guy about. I would have finished my call and then came in. Of course, I'm a white guy so I likely would not have had to explain myself to the police.

And if you had done that, here, today you would be just as fired as the guy who acted "insane" at a customer's location. You'd be fired whether you are white, green, pink, black, brown, yellow or red.

Turns out that I wan't the only company concerned about this guy AND apparently he has a history of erratic behavior and yesterday was the "last straw" for his company. Too bad one angry person cost his company SO MUCH MONEY.

The COOL part of recognizing and embracing diversity is that THE RULES ARE THE RULES-regardless of color, race, religion, sexual preferences, etc. Nobody gets "special" treatment.

I'm not clear on what 'rule' he broke. Talking on a cel while turbaned?

 

[Russianwolf]

The title of this thread isn't "Wear a company shirt" is it?



If you define terrorism narrowly then yes, mostly middle eastern men are the focus.

I don't define terrorism narrowly. I include things like the DC sniper, The Columbine shootings, The Anthrax attacks, the Current Ricine attacks, The Atlanta Olympic bombing, the Colorado Theatre shooting, The Newtown shooting. All of these event instilled America with a sense of Terror. they are all acts of Terrorism regardless of the motives of the perpetrators.

The DC Snipers were two Black people. All the others I listed were White people or remain open with white suspects.

And McVeigh was a known Anti-big gov militia supporter/sympathized.

 

[Justturnin]

I would just say this. You never know how you will react in a situation until you are in it. It's easy to say "this is how I would handle it" but when you are in the shoes of the person living it, things change. Suddenly it is your hide that you are protecting. When you are getting nervous or even scared all your PC rational goes out the window and self preservation takes the lead. I love to hear folks with no formal training w/ a beer in their hand say that if they were there the story would be different, all I can think of is that there would have just been one more casualty. I would love to say that if I were in this situation I would have followed the 27 steps to successful conflict resolution but it would be more likely that I could have done the same thing. All he did was observe, in his honest opinion, erratic behavior and called someone that was trained to handle it to look into it. Would you prefer that he approached the person himself?

I would also like to note as the OP mentioned, he followed company procedure for this. He was not flying by the seat of his pants.

 

[PenMan1]

Also I believe the key behaviors that caused concern for Andy were the combination of the "carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth and speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone" , followed by pulling out an electronic device and growing louder (which I read as almost yelling).

Here's how I read it.

Person is told to go to A and service machine. They drive over, get out and get a call. They are trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it. He's walking back and forth as he tries and doesn't go in as THAT wouldn't be profession while he's on the call. Grabs whatever out to make sure he's explaining it right and starts telling them in a frustrated voice.

Person comes out and confronts him. He explains. They call his company and they lose a contract.

I call it overreaction.

AND OUR COMPANY CALLED IT LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM. Because of the nature of the businesses in this location (banking, investments and real estate, etc, where many times large sums of cash are transacted -and we have 8 locations-all similar to this one), all visitors are required to sign in and be announced.

The company who accepted these contracts KNEW the procedure, and yet, didn't honor them.

As one reply stated, all that had to happen was for the tech to sign in and let us verify him- problem over.

We just need service people that will do it the way we need it. Today just proved we hired the wrong company.

According to the OP, he was 'outside the door of your office complex'. Presumably, your rules don't require visitors to sign in and be announced until they actually enter your 'office complex'.

If it were me, I would have done exactly what you are upset with that guy about. I would have finished my call and then came in. Of course, I'm a white guy so I likely would not have had to explain myself to the police.

And if you had done that, here, today you would be just as fired as the guy who acted "insane" at a customer's location. You'd be fired whether you are white, green, pink, black, brown, yellow or red.

Turns out that I wan't the only company concerned about this guy AND apparently he has a history of erratic behavior and yesterday was the "last straw" for his company. Too bad one angry person cost his company SO MUCH MONEY.

The COOL part of recognizing and embracing diversity is that THE RULES ARE THE RULES-regardless of color, race, religion, sexual preferences, etc. Nobody gets "special" treatment.

I'm not clear on what 'rule' he broke. Talking on a cel while turbaned?

The "rule" he broke was not signing in immediately upon arrival. As to which LAWS he broke, I'm not sure which ones. IF you want to find out, just go stand in the foyer of your local bank, wearing a backpack and coding into a mobile electronic device while screaming into a cell phone. I'm sure the local authorities will have a sizable list prepared BEFORE the FBI even arrives.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Lets get back to pen making ,has anyone made a pen in the last day or so.

 

[Russianwolf]

one last thought.

The ones acting suspicious and erratic, screaming into cell phones are most likely not the ones you need to worry about.

It's always the quiet ones (another stereotype).

 

[PenMan1]

Lets get back to pen making ,has anyone made a pen in the last day or so.

I agree! Sorry for the diversion!

 

[BradG]

Think il just smile and leave my comment there I think

 

[sbell111]

Also I believe the key behaviors that caused concern for Andy were the combination of the "carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth and speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone" , followed by pulling out an electronic device and growing louder (which I read as almost yelling).

Here's how I read it.

Person is told to go to A and service machine. They drive over, get out and get a call. They are trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it. He's walking back and forth as he tries and doesn't go in as THAT wouldn't be profession while he's on the call. Grabs whatever out to make sure he's explaining it right and starts telling them in a frustrated voice.

Person comes out and confronts him. He explains. They call his company and they lose a contract.

I call it overreaction.

AND OUR COMPANY CALLED IT LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM. Because of the nature of the businesses in this location (banking, investments and real estate, etc, where many times large sums of cash are transacted -and we have 8 locations-all similar to this one), all visitors are required to sign in and be announced.

The company who accepted these contracts KNEW the procedure, and yet, didn't honor them.

As one reply stated, all that had to happen was for the tech to sign in and let us verify him- problem over.

We just need service people that will do it the way we need it. Today just proved we hired the wrong company.

According to the OP, he was 'outside the door of your office complex'. Presumably, your rules don't require visitors to sign in and be announced until they actually enter your 'office complex'.

If it were me, I would have done exactly what you are upset with that guy about. I would have finished my call and then came in. Of course, I'm a white guy so I likely would not have had to explain myself to the police.

And if you had done that, here, today you would be just as fired as the guy who acted "insane" at a customer's location. You'd be fired whether you are white, green, pink, black, brown, yellow or red.

Turns out that I wan't the only company concerned about this guy AND apparently he has a history of erratic behavior and yesterday was the "last straw" for his company. Too bad one angry person cost his company SO MUCH MONEY.

The COOL part of recognizing and embracing diversity is that THE RULES ARE THE RULES-regardless of color, race, religion, sexual preferences, etc. Nobody gets "special" treatment.

I'm not clear on what 'rule' he broke. Talking on a cel while turbaned?

The "rule" he broke was not signing in immediately upon arrival. As to which LAWS he broke, I'm not sure which ones. IF you want to find out, just go stand in the foyer of your local bank, wearing a backpack and coding into a mobile electronic device while screaming into a cell phone. I'm sure the local authorities will have a sizable list prepared BEFORE the FBI even arrives.

Do you honestly believe that 'yelling' into a celphone while wearing a backpack breaks federal laws? I suppose that local constabulary could cite you for disturbing the peace, but even that is a stretch and likely wouldn't hold up (unless, I suppose, you were wearing a turban in Georgia).

 

[sbell111]

one last thought.

The ones acting suspicious and erratic, screaming into cell phones are most likely not the ones you need to worry about.

It's always the quiet ones (another stereotype).

Agreed. Also, the middle eastern, radical Muslim terrorist is likely going to act like he's Joe Blow Baptist from Kansas.

 

[monark88]

So stereotyping will help and stop crimes and terrorism??????

Timothy McVeigh (Killed 168 and wounded over 800 in theOkla. City Bombing) was US Army trained

Charles Wittman (Killed 17 and wounded 32 in From the UT tower in Austin Texas) Former US Marine

Lee Harvey Oswald ( Killed JFK and a Dallas Police officer) Former US Marine

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan (12 killed and 31 wounded at Fort Hood) Current US Army

and there are many many more...so by your logic we should start worring about all of our soliders??? come on...Our country is protected by very brave and good men in our military and a few bad apples should not stain what they do. But if we are going to stereotype then lets do it right...all military looking men with short hair, being trained to shoot by the worlds finest and living in the US should be stopped and questioned about what they are doing....You have got to be kidding..this isnt about stereotyping people that are likely to cause harm..its flat out racist.

And you should know that there were Red Flags on all these you list. Ignored by all, probably out of a fear to avoid stereotyping. Let someone else deal with the potential problem,

Anyway, I have found this discussion to be a good one. Its seemed almost everyone was courteous in their replies. Its good to disagree, but respect the other guy's opinion, right or wrong. At least I have.

On with pen making stuff.

Russ



otyping.

 

[wolftat]

I have a beard. I carry a black backpack. It has been said that I can be extremely unfriendly. I speak several foriegn languages, and do so on the phone often. I wear a baseball cap. I look around alot. I have scared a lot of people with my actions. I have spent about 20 years traveling all around the Middle East.

What does this make me??

I am a retired Marine and a current LEO.

 

[Smitty37]

an uneducated white guy getting out of a pickup with a rebel flag window decal and a rifle in the back window wouldn't have turned a head....An educated man from India trying to work hard and live the American Dream scares the hell out of you because he has a back pack and a beard and is smart enough to know more than one language?

I hope you don't really believe that....unless it's on a country road in hunting season some one would call the police before he got the door closed.

OMG what a small world your living in Smitty...try driving a little more south of the Mason/Dixon sometime, it will amaze you.

Jason, I was driving around with a gun in the back window of my Pickup Truck before you were even a gleam in your daddy's eye. For awhile I also had a rebel flag on my radio antenna although I was never sympathetic to the Southern Cause. I think the south was as more right than wrong at the time of the Civil War but I also think it was a good thing for all of us that they lost the war.

I have probably spent as much time in SC as you have in DE. By the way I live East of the Mason Dixon Line and cross it regularily. Delaware is sort of divided between being "southern" and "northern" and I live in the Southern half I think that every one knows that the Mason and Dixon Line is not the division between the North and South, Maryland is NOT a Southern State. I have spent some time in every state that was a part of CSA except Mississippi and Louisiana and a lot of time in a couple of them.

I am neither a redneck, nor uneducated and I was driving my pickup with the gun in the back window (although sometimes it was my fishing rod) in the State of New York and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and I was doing it before it was considered a sign of being a Southern redneck.

But, if you're driving around with a gun in the back window of your pickup truck (assuming you have a gun and a pickup truck) I would steer shy of Columbia and Charleston unless I wanted to have a chat with the local constabulary. My sister lives in North Charleston and if she saw you driving in her neighborhood with a gun in the window of your pickup truck I guarantee that she would call the cops.....

 

[alphageek]

Ok...

Way to much battling, half-way personal attack type comments - and I'm just downright sick of having to monitor this crazy thread for politics and personal attacks so I'm closing it down...

If your not happy with that, I'm sorry but like a couple people above said - how about some more penturning thread activity.

Dean
Asst Mod