JMCU
Member
I'm glad people try to look like what they want to be. What if everyone looked just alike then all you have is mannerisms and actions to determine if you should be ready to do something.
Middle Eastern Men with Back Packs
- Thread starter PenMan1
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PenMan1
Member
Maybe where you live it wouldn't have turned a head, but where I live that truck you described would never have made it into the parking facility. We simply DON'T put up with such nonsense. Security would have sent that vehicle on its way before it could park.
There are no restaurants, etc in this facility. You need a reason to be here. Security would have known EXACTLY THEIR BUSINESS BEFORE THEY EVER PARKED. Our sheriff puts up with NO NONSENSE. In fact, Sheriff Sills holds the record for getting evil people the longest prison sentences. He got Dwight Malichi York thousands of years in prison for child abuse. He ridden our area of a plague on society (they called themselves Nuwaubians), he helped to bring Westly Snipes to justice and again riddled our community of his survivorlist militia.
Maybe those people cause problems in your neighborhood. BUT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN HERE.OUR community demands civil interaction with each other, regardless of your beliefs or station in life.
PenMan1
Member
And for the record....I speak 3 languages other than English, graduted magma cum laude MBA from a very fine business school, own two businesses, and was a Divisional Operations Manager for a Fortune 500 company. ONE of my favorite vehicles IS my 1988 Pickup truck (sans offensive flag, but including my legally permitted Glock 40 under the drivers seat).
I think perhaps you are confusing redneck with racist.
Respectfully submitted.
I think perhaps you are confusing redneck with racist.
Respectfully submitted.
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PenMan1
Member
Charles:
It's actually in Lake Oconee. LO has such a small number of full time residents that it doesn't get it's own Zip Code. The Lake covers 5 counties (all with different zip codes) but this area is know as The Village. It's located across the street from the Ritz Carlton and the gated lake communities, near the Publix complex.
And NO we DIDN'T call for service. It was part of a maintenance agreement and the new copier company (until today, anyway) chose not to provide a courtesy call. I think the OLD copier company will be the NEW copier company, starting tomorrow.
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Waluy
Member
As someone who drives an old beat up pickup with a rebel flag on it (although mine is a license plate that says "Pride not Prejudice") I can say if there was a rifle in the back window of someones vehicle who parked at my place of employment heads definitely would have turned. And anyone who walks around my place of employment either checks in BEFORE walking around so they have a visitors badge or someone calls the police because we are considered a secure facility due to working on government contracts.
Also I believe the key behaviors that caused concern for Andy were the combination of the "carrying a back pack, was nervously pacing back and forth and speaking in a foreign language on his cell phone" , followed by pulling out an electronic device and growing louder (which I read as almost yelling).
I would like to think any one of these factors by themselves or even in a pair would not have caused the concern that all of them combined did. To me the nervous pacing would be the most concerning factor.
PenMan1
Member
Perhaps, I need to take continuing education courses in communication. THERE WAS NO BACK PEDDLE. if the same situation happens tomorrow, I'd make the SAME decision I made today. That won't be happening, because this company lost a very lucrative maintenance contract today for unprofessional behavior.
Secondly, there were 5 techs that service our equipment here. 2 are locals and graduates of the local technical school, these two guys are equally terrible techs. When they come out, we have to have service the next day. Steve, the guy with a heavy Brooklyn accent and matching attitude. A good tech, but always late! Two Indian (brothers) techs that are always on time, do excellent work and leave the copy centers cleaner than they found them. Always polite, punctual and perform their duties efficiently.
If saying that the "Indian techs are the best we have here" is considered stereotyping, then I'm guilty as we always requested one of the brothers. I'm glad this company will be resuming our copier repairs!
PenPal
Member
As a Tech Services Manager for Rank Xerox in a former life in the 1960,s on you would be more impressed by us as we all Techs ie wore suits. I have a Muslim son in Law lives in the States has for ten years, no beard non aggressive but yes I fear some redneck other people whatever that is might get excited and knowing the careless few handling guns I fear for his safety and my daughters, her children. I spent 7 weeks in his country with them one time and I also understand what it means to be a foreigner there without their language. My daughter was fluent in his language in two yrs teaching, writing textbooks for a private school there for yrs she adapted well. For myself I pride me on being colourblind ie to race and creed however I am aware of your first thoughts and understand your concern.
My life partner my wife comes from a different planet Pluto and since I am from Mars life is quite exciting enough, thing to remember all of us in Australia including the Indigenous migrated here much like in America so forebearance is a given.
Kind regards Peter.
My life partner my wife comes from a different planet Pluto and since I am from Mars life is quite exciting enough, thing to remember all of us in Australia including the Indigenous migrated here much like in America so forebearance is a given.
Kind regards Peter.
PenMan1
Member
If you were working in Beijing, I'd be willing to bet that you had "checked in", had visible credentials, an escort or SOMEONE HAD CLEARED YOU TO ENTER THE FACILITY.
Displaced Canadian
Member
The worst part is if he had just walked in and said who he was and why he was there all would have been fine.
TellicoTurning
Member
Peter, Glad you posted, as I read through this I kept thinking that all of the copier people that visited my office were always in white shirts, a tie and in fall and winter usually a suite coat.... I've commented more than once on the fact that they have to wear white shirts when working on copiers as the toner gets on everything and as a really fine powder marks well. Anytime I changed toner cartridge, I had toner powder on my clothes, seemed like they never did ?
And in my former life, I was an international shipping manager... I dealt with many different nationalities and never felt threatened... I was always fascinated to talk to them and learn about their country and cultures... I did a great business in Nigeria, China, Australia, Peru, Brazil, Venezuela, UK, all of Europe, Scandinavia (I actually export guns to Denmark - lots of permits and paperwork), oilfield explosives all over the world, South Africa was fun... (I could ship the explosives in, but not the detonation cord??)
I didn't travel extensively, but when I did, never felt anything but fascination for where I was... I wound up lost in Port of Spain, Trinidad and somehow wound up in a neighborhood that was considered the "bad" part of POS... everyone I saw was friendly, smiling and waving at me...(Maybe saying look at that stupid American, he's lost :biggrin
... even when I made a bad turn and went to the wrong side of the road and almost collided head on with a police car, all I got was a smile and a "no-No" wave of the forefinger... :biggrin:
mikespenturningz
Member
It seems like we all have a responsibility to make ourselves known in this day and age. Terrorism knows well how to adapt and how to look seeming normal. If we see something that doesn't look right we need to speak up and call the authorities and let them handle it. If it doesn't feel right chances are it isn't. Let the authorities check into it and don't worry about being politically correct. PC is the doom of us. Extremist are just as problematic in both directions.
monark88
Member
Intelligent thoughts, especially about being PC. Hopefully being PC will finally die out and we can get back to having meaningful dialog or in the very least a free conversation. But, it will take a while I would guess.
Russ
Russianwolf
Member
Here's how I read it.
Person is told to go to A and service machine. They drive over, get out and get a call. They are trying to explain something to someone who just doesn't get it. He's walking back and forth as he tries and doesn't go in as THAT wouldn't be profession while he's on the call. Grabs whatever out to make sure he's explaining it right and starts telling them in a frustrated voice.
Person comes out and confronts him. He explains. They call his company and they lose a contract.
I call it overreaction.
PenMan1
Member
AND OUR COMPANY CALLED IT LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM. Because of the nature of the businesses in this location (banking, investments and real estate, etc, where many times large sums of cash are transacted -and we have 8 locations-all similar to this one), all visitors are required to sign in and be announced.
The company who accepted these contracts KNEW the procedure, and yet, didn't honor them.
As one reply stated, all that had to happen was for the tech to sign in and let us verify him- problem over.
We just need service people that will do it the way we need it. Today just proved we hired the wrong company.
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Russianwolf
Member
Did he come in? Did he have a chance to do so before you confronted him or was he on his call until you confronted him?
PenMan1
Member
I DIDN'T confront him. After about 15 minutes of the pacing and the hand waving and the literal screaming into the cell phone toward the end, I followed our policy of alerting the police.
PenMan1
Member
According to the other companies that own other facilities in the complex, it WAS the right call, as much as I hated making it and wondering if I was letting recent incidents influence my thinking.
As one business owner said " regardless of his reasons, the last thing we need is someone screaming and acting crazy at the entrance of our businesses".
The copier company didn't just lose our 8 locations, they lost the entire complex at this location.
As one business owner said " regardless of his reasons, the last thing we need is someone screaming and acting crazy at the entrance of our businesses".
The copier company didn't just lose our 8 locations, they lost the entire complex at this location.
Russianwolf
Member
So if he hadn't come in, how could he announce himself?
I hope you don't really believe that....unless it's on a country road in hunting season some one would call the police before he got the door closed.
PenMan1
Member
By finishing his other business in the parking lot or in his car, until he was ready to enter the facility......JUST LIKE ALL OF THE OTHER VENDORS THAT PROVIDE SERVICES THERE DO IT!
PenMan1
Member
At the end of the day, this forum has been very helpful. After reading the various posts, I'm confident that I made the right decision.
After reading the post about the rebel flag and the gun rack, I asked myself how I would have reacted had it been the occupant of THAT truck standing in the entrance carrying a backpack, screaming and seeming very agitated with an electronic device in his hand.
The ONLY thing that would have changed is that I WOULD NOT HAVE WAITED AS LONG to make the call.
I understand diversity and pride myself of being accepting of all groups. In the end, CRAZY IS JUST CRAZY! Regardless of how the package comes bundled.
After reading the post about the rebel flag and the gun rack, I asked myself how I would have reacted had it been the occupant of THAT truck standing in the entrance carrying a backpack, screaming and seeming very agitated with an electronic device in his hand.
The ONLY thing that would have changed is that I WOULD NOT HAVE WAITED AS LONG to make the call.
I understand diversity and pride myself of being accepting of all groups. In the end, CRAZY IS JUST CRAZY! Regardless of how the package comes bundled.
If you are walking down the street and a big white dog comes out and bites you and runs off, and you need to find out if the dog had it's rabies shot, you don't stop people walking little brown dogs and ask them to present their rabies tag.
In short, the description of the most common terrorists world wide (not just in the USA) is what it is...it is not a steriotype...it is a fact. If you want to find a alligator you don't look among the newts...if you want to find terrorists you don't look at little old ladies from Pasadena.
We have in the name of "not Steriotyping" subjected 320,000,000 Americans and who knows how many foreign nationals to a great deal of inconvenience and expense at airports, office buildings and so forth all so we don't "single out" those who meet the criteria of most terrorists.
My opinion is we'd all be safer and less harrassed if we stopped looking for beef in the cerial aisle and started looking in the meat section - even if that makes the cows a little uncomfortable. Not everyone fitting the description will be a terrorist, but most terrorists will fit the description.
I understand there is a website that keeps track and logs terrorist acts world wide in recent years by people fitting the description. I can't vouch for the credibility of the site because I have not had a chance to check it out yet and see where their sources are so I won't go into it except to say that most of the acts they log are committed by the people fitting the "steriotype".
In my personal opinion, the biggest problem our nation faces is that "political correctness" is preventing our having honest debate and discussion of almost every major problem we face. Which is why problems never get solved, always papered over or postponed. It seems that every problem we face can't be discussed because somebody might be offended.
In short, the description of the most common terrorists world wide (not just in the USA) is what it is...it is not a steriotype...it is a fact. If you want to find a alligator you don't look among the newts...if you want to find terrorists you don't look at little old ladies from Pasadena.
We have in the name of "not Steriotyping" subjected 320,000,000 Americans and who knows how many foreign nationals to a great deal of inconvenience and expense at airports, office buildings and so forth all so we don't "single out" those who meet the criteria of most terrorists.
My opinion is we'd all be safer and less harrassed if we stopped looking for beef in the cerial aisle and started looking in the meat section - even if that makes the cows a little uncomfortable. Not everyone fitting the description will be a terrorist, but most terrorists will fit the description.
I understand there is a website that keeps track and logs terrorist acts world wide in recent years by people fitting the description. I can't vouch for the credibility of the site because I have not had a chance to check it out yet and see where their sources are so I won't go into it except to say that most of the acts they log are committed by the people fitting the "steriotype".
In my personal opinion, the biggest problem our nation faces is that "political correctness" is preventing our having honest debate and discussion of almost every major problem we face. Which is why problems never get solved, always papered over or postponed. It seems that every problem we face can't be discussed because somebody might be offended.
Even in the great state of Kentucky, which the rest of the country consider Hillbilly's, this would be highly unlikely to ever happen.
Now that is steriotyping at it's worst...we all know that you folks get your feelin's all atatter and much prefer to be referred to as Mountain Williams.:biggrin::biggrin:
BTW one of my neices was married to a Kentucky McCoy decended from those of "Hatfield's and McCoy's" fame.
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Smitty: When you spoke to Earnie about Mountain Williams, I only partially understand. I can equate Mouintain to Hill, but I prefer HillJack and there's no way to get "Jack **** out of William!!!
Well what do you expect---you're from Indiana.:biggrin::biggrin:Used to listen to the Stump Jumpers out of WOWO Fort Wayne Indiana along with WCKY out of Cincinnati Ohio and WWVA out of Wheeling West (by God) Virginia......and you guys always thought you were only famous for Cicero being a favorite spot of AL Capone.
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nava1uni
Member
I agree and also believe that companies should identify themselves. It is courteous and good business so that people know who they are dealing with and can feel valued by being provided with courteous, responsible service.
SerenityWoodWorks
Member
Where I live is 100 miles from you...Now let me get this straight....you trust your security to keep the white guy with a rebel flag and deer rifle out of your complex because your sheriff is so good, but the "middle eastern" guy got by security and was able to park and get out of his vehicle and walk around for 15 mins on the phone without being "sent on his way" as you say by the outstanding security. You also say "There are no restaurants, etc in this facility. You need a reason to be here. Security would have known EXACTLY THEIR BUSINESS BEFORE THEY EVER PARKED." Well if this is true, again how did this "middle eastern" man ever get in without some form of ID. He must of had ID and passed without issue.
I also called a friend at the NSA, he helped me get a copy of the phone call this guy was on, its only his side but they did translate it from Hindi to English for us:
Yes Sir, I understand your copier is broke....Yes sir I will be there later today to fix that....Yes sir I understand this is important to you but I am also about to service another very important customer..Yes I understand you are from the same region in the world I am from but this does not make you more important than this customer, I have already passed through their security and parked, I am about to fix them and then I will be on my way to you....Well I am sorry you feel that way but you do not have to call me names, please stop as this is upsetting me and I will be to your place of business in less than 2 hours. Well sir if you want to find someone else then go ahead, I am not leaving this customer without servicing them, they have been great customers of mine and I surely want to keep them happy...Good Day!
SerenityWoodWorks
Member
OMG what a small world your living in Smitty...try driving a little more south of the Mason/Dixon sometime, it will amaze you.
Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I have to acknowledge that I doubt your word here. Unless you are clairvoyant you would not have had the necessary information to even make such a request.
SerenityWoodWorks
Member
So stereotyping will help and stop crimes and terrorism??????
Timothy McVeigh (Killed 168 and wounded over 800 in theOkla. City Bombing) was US Army trained
Charles Wittman (Killed 17 and wounded 32 in From the UT tower in Austin Texas) Former US Marine
Lee Harvey Oswald ( Killed JFK and a Dallas Police officer) Former US Marine
Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan (12 killed and 31 wounded at Fort Hood) Current US Army
and there are many many more...so by your logic we should start worring about all of our soliders??? come on...Our country is protected by very brave and good men in our military and a few bad apples should not stain what they do. But if we are going to stereotype then lets do it right...all military looking men with short hair, being trained to shoot by the worlds finest and living in the US should be stopped and questioned about what they are doing....You have got to be kidding..this isnt about stereotyping people that are likely to cause harm..its flat out racist.
Timothy McVeigh (Killed 168 and wounded over 800 in theOkla. City Bombing) was US Army trained
Charles Wittman (Killed 17 and wounded 32 in From the UT tower in Austin Texas) Former US Marine
Lee Harvey Oswald ( Killed JFK and a Dallas Police officer) Former US Marine
Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan (12 killed and 31 wounded at Fort Hood) Current US Army
and there are many many more...so by your logic we should start worring about all of our soliders??? come on...Our country is protected by very brave and good men in our military and a few bad apples should not stain what they do. But if we are going to stereotype then lets do it right...all military looking men with short hair, being trained to shoot by the worlds finest and living in the US should be stopped and questioned about what they are doing....You have got to be kidding..this isnt about stereotyping people that are likely to cause harm..its flat out racist.
SerenityWoodWorks
Member
Ummm..Smitty it was Sarcasm.....meaning...you had no idea what the phone call was about......
I did not say that you did. What I said is if you want to stop terrorism you look for terrorists where you are most likely to find them.
If most of today's terrorists (world wide) are highly religious, middle eastern males between the ages of 20 and 45 those are the kind of people you have to look among to find them. That does not say that every person in that group is a terrorist, but practically every terrorist caught today is in that group.
Looking at little old ladies from Pasadena is not going to help eliminate terrorist attacks, all it will do is a waste time and resources inconveniencing and embarassing little old ladies to give an appearance of not steriotyping. Those resources could be better utilized doing other things and the little old lady could travel much more peacefully..
Your analogy does not make sense
Lee H. Oswald 50 years ago never considered a terrorist.
Charles Whitman 47 years ago - no ties to any anti US organizations
Timothy McVeigh 18 years ago - no ties to any anti US organizations
Hasan 2 years ago and fits the "steriotype".
Everyone who disagrees with you is not a racist.
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sbell111
Member
Ummmm, you know that Sheriffs don't sentence people to prison, right?
Wesley (Always bet on black) Snipes did three years for tax evasion. The IRS went after him, federal prosecuters worked the case, and he was sent to a federal prison.
sbell111
Member
If those were the key factors, why did he lead with 'Middle eastern man' and 'young man with turban and beard'?
BTW, has there ever been a terrorist act in the US that was made by a man in a turban and beard? Any Luby-style mass murders? I can't think of a single one.
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sbell111
Member
I wasn't working there, didn't check in anywhere except where there was a government checkpoint, and never had an escort (other than a paid driver one day).
It should also be noted that nothing in your post suggests that the man was anyplace that he shouldn't have been. For all you know, he was agitated on the phone because he was trying to get someone to call to let their redneck, bigoted clients know that he was there so no one got crazed.
sbell111
Member
While I definitely agree that me all need to be more vigilant than we used to, I disagree with the bolded part. This thread is the perfect example of some mundane situation that didn't 'feel right'. The OP is hyper alert because of the Boston bombings and is apparently seeing a terrorist every time someone from the middle east pops up on his radar. That doesn't make these people terrorists.
JMCU
Member
The bottom line to all this is nowhere to be found. Your legislatures are sitting up there on their fat … paychecks trying to figure out how they can make their next million off the pork they attach to what should have been a good law while worried to death they might make some potential voter mad. They would rather create a new law making it illegal to own a pressure cooker than face the reality that we have people among us that would kill simply because they want to. You think pressure pots for casting would escape the jurisprudence of that law, I doubt it. Vote all these communist back in and watch your constitutional rights disappear. And don't even get me started on Hollywood and their ill perceived notion of the Star Trek universe. Invest in martial arts. I know this going to get deleted but if I don't say it who else will.
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SerenityWoodWorks
Member
I love the way people bypass history when it suits them....So again using YOUR logic, Only people commiting crimes recently with anti US organizations backgrounds should be stereotyped? Not calling anyone racist..Calling the act of alerting the police on a man that passed through a security check (by the own mans admission) a racist act.
Using another topic...I guess by your way of stereotyping, all old men with grey hair that are priests or overly religious should be stopped and asked if they are child molesters?????
This isnt about being PC its about making life alot harder on a person because of how they look, their beliefs or where they are from just because a few bad apples cause problems. Its this we as Americans are better than the rest of the world thinking that causes the hard feeling with these other countries that lead to people hating Americans and seek to hurt us.
Using another topic...I guess by your way of stereotyping, all old men with grey hair that are priests or overly religious should be stopped and asked if they are child molesters?????
This isnt about being PC its about making life alot harder on a person because of how they look, their beliefs or where they are from just because a few bad apples cause problems. Its this we as Americans are better than the rest of the world thinking that causes the hard feeling with these other countries that lead to people hating Americans and seek to hurt us.
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