Membership Cards: 1 Problem, 1 Concern

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mbroberg

IAP Activities Manager, Emeritus
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So, you ask, what is going on with the membership cards?


1 Problem:


There is an "S" missing from Scott Greaves' signature. It is my fault, Terredax spelled it the way I sent it to him. However, Terredax is no longer available to fix it. I have asked a designer who works for a marketing company that I met at the MPG to take a look at it. She may or may not be able to fix it. If she is unable to fix it I am going to contact Unionboggle, who offered his help in this post. If it can't be fixed we might be starting over. But I am wondering if it is worth it.


1 Concern:


One day shy of 2 weeks and only 82 members have expressed the possibility of purchasing a membership card by voting in this poll. I figured (incorrectly obviously) that there would be between 100 and 200 members who would be open to purchasing a card. At less than 100 people I'm not sure it is worth pursuing. I spoke with Jeff and he has reservations as well. After all, if the initial release only attracts 82 people then future sales would be dismal at best. I can't see where purchasing equipment and supplies when so few people are interested makes much sense.



Apparently many members do not want just a membership card, they want a membership card that will provide them with benefits or discounts on products. That is not an unreasonable expectation, but it is an expectation that I cannot promise at this time and I am not going to try to line up benefits or discounts prior to producing a card. Once (or if) the cards are distributed the individual vendors would have to decide what discounts they are willing to provide card holding members. How would on-line vendors know whether or not a customer has a card? Jeff told me that with the new forum software a star or other symbol could be displayed beside a member's name to indicate that the member has a card. So it is possible that at some point discounts or benefits could be attached to the card, but that was not, at least in my mind, the intent of the card. Vendors have always had the option to offer discounts to IAP members and most members that I have talked to already recognize the benefits of IAP membership in terms of knowledge and friendships shared. We don't need no stinking card for that. :rolleyes: The card was just a tangible means of displaying pride in membership in the IAP.


We'll see how this shakes out.
 
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jttheclockman

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Well Mike I can not help with the first problem.

The second problem is twofold and maybe my thoughts will not be well received but will state them anyway. Not going to sugar coat this. We maybe not the popular site we think we are or penturning in general may not be the king of the hobbies any more. Lets look at the Bash numbers because I think that is always a good barometer of the state of this site. Look at the amount of entries into each contest. Look at the amount of votes in each contest. You can do this with past Bashes too. They are way down in both areas. (yes one or 2 contests are more popular) but that is because of the contest ( a basic easy to make pen contest) The number of members shown here is so misleading it should not even be there in my opinion. So many of them are non participants and have either left the site or just plain lost interest. You get this on all forums. Then you have a core of people who stick around for quite awhile and carry the site. You have new members joining all the time but that is it after they join other things peak their interest and they are gone.

My point is you are talking to that core of people and I believe that a majority of that core is in favor of this and most other activities here but they alone can not continue to carry this site. They too will fade away and the next generation needs to step forward. Maybe there isn't that next generation out there. 100 core members is a good perspective as to what we actually have here. So you maybe correct in your estimates and this is what we are looking at. Now if that does not make this a worthwhile venture than we need to take another look and abandon the idea. I did write this in response to a question brought up in another thread and I stick with this. But if members do not participate there is nothing we can do.

I support this site, I support you and your efforts in pursuing this because I did think it was a good idea. I will also support the decision whatever it may be as we move forward. I hope I am wrong about the thoughts and numbers on this site but until proven otherwise I see a continued drop-off.



Originally Posted by wood-of-1kind View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by leehljp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroberg View Post
Shameless Bump.


If you believe that you would probably want to get a membership card, please so indicate by voting yes, or yes. So far there are less than 100 interested, far fewer than I thought were interested. I don't know how many interested members it would take to justify the commitment of time and money into making it happen, but it is going to take more than what we have now.
I am back to greeting our new members regularly and I usually post a link to our Library for info. I will add in a link to this thread. I don't know how much that will help, but if we get 5% to 10%, that will help some.

I agree with you that I would have thought more would be involved and would want a membership card.
I am NOT surprised at the potentially low request for membership cards. Might be beneficial if it was presented as to what the benefits derived might be in having such a card. What "value" derived? Just expressing a personal opinion here.



The problem with that is we do not know for sure. I mentioned some potentials in my post and will again. There are some vendors right now out there that accept club cards and will give discounts because of it. Others may follow in the future we do not know. They maybe walk-ups only but maybe vendors on line may also join in.

Then there is vendors that sell here all the time and they may become involved with that process too or they may make some kind of contest with the use of names or card numbers in some way.

All these pen gatherings maybe able to incorporate some contest at the door by showing the card.

Then there is the factor of presenting the card at pen shows or other stores that are not pen related and see if they accept club cards. Not saying this happens but it can never hurt to ask. Maybe other ways that can benefit and I have not listed such as just showing support.

What would be nice is when someone gets a card and does use it for a discount or other option to mention it here and let others know and this can grow. Grass roots ideas have to start somewhere.
 
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Dalecamino

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Mike, I regret even getting into this project. I should have stayed out of that old thread. If there is not enough support, it should be dropped. It won't hurt MY feelings. My apologies to you and Jeff.
 

jeff

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As Mike said, we discussed this at length at MPG and at the current interest level, I don't see any point in proceeding. For why there is low interest, I think it's as simple as looking at the reality of modern shopping. I would be willing to bet that industry-wide, 95% of penmaking supply sales are on-line. If a card only benefits in-person shopping, then I understand the low interest. If IAP membership benefits on-line shopping as well, then I'm not sure a card is necessary to implement that.

Perhaps we need to go back to the member-printable option. It is possible to generate a custom printable image for each member using information in the member profile. That's something I'd be willing to tackle (or even contract out, or get help from PHP/MySQL savvy members) sometime later in the year.
 

jeff

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Mike, I regret even getting into this project. I should have stayed out of that old thread. If there is not enough support, it should be dropped. It won't hurt MY feelings. My apologies to you and Jeff.

Chuck - absolutely no apology needed. I think it's good to revisit old ideas. New people, changes in technology, the passage of time, all make it worth taking a fresh look at things.
 

mbroberg

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JT - Thanks for your input.


Chuck, I have no idea what you would have to apologize for.



We will see what the next couple of days bring, but to be honest, it doesn't appear that the level of interest I thought existed actually does.
 

mecompco

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My thoughts: A card would be cool, but honestly the print/laminate yourself would be fine for me.

What I WOULD consider paying for is a paid membership to IAP. I have ponied up $100 for a lifetime membership to a different free forum in the past. I would absolutely consider paying at least a reasonable yearly fee. On that other forum (Jeepforum.com) paid members got bigger avatars, no ads, and a few other perks. A nice official membership card would be a really nice plus.

Just my thoughts, FWIW.

Regards,
Michael
 

leehljp

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I am all for printing our own from a prescribed layout and I don't mind doing it for those of you that don't have the confidence or equipment to do it - if we go in that direction.

With my organization, I lost my State ID card (somewhere at home). I made up one on a specific card stock and laminated it. The only questions I got was "Why don't ours look as good, sharp and crisp as yours?" I won't go into details but I had to do this overseas due to some rather peculiar red tape rules, and passed security ID scans several years ago. (Couldn't do it today with holographic scans though.)

One suggestion before we go this route: Local and State Chapter Leaders - Openly suggest to the people of your group to go the link below and vote - if they choose to have a membership card for the $10 :
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f17/another-membership-card-poll-159616/

Encourage them to join in if they can. It may not reach most but if we pick up 25 from across the entire membership landscape, it might work. TO be honest, I think many people are still not fully aware of it. Many look for "pen" and pen information and stay away from general threads.
 
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Scott

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#1 - I didn't think it would be that hard to correct the spelling on my name. Why don't you go ahead and issue them as they are, I'm the only one who would notice, and the correct spelling would be on the back (well, for me anyway).

#2 - this is a bigger problem. While I think it would be cool to have a membership card, if there are only a few of us interested, I say to heck with it! I don't "need" a card! But if it's not a big imposition, maybe a user printable card would be good, but only if it's easy for Jeff to put together.

Scott.
 

mbroberg

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Scott,


IF these plastic cards are made available I assure you that your name will be spelled correctly, even if we have to redo the design. As it stands right now this, at minimum, will be delayed. If more support for a plastic card can't be found then once Jeff has the new forum software humming along smoothly I'll talk with him about member printable cards. The interest doesn't seem to be there, at least not enough to justify the initial expense of plastic cards. I haven't closed the poll yet. The plastic card that we have been discussing is not dead yet, but it is in the critical care unit.:doctor:



Advantages of member printable cards are minimal cost to the member (paper, ink, lamination), easily replaceable, no postage cost and they will maintain a uniformity that is lacking now among the cards produced by the individual chapters.


For those of you who think that this will be another failed attampt to develop an IAP Membership Card ,I promise you I don't plan on letting that happen.



#1 - I didn't think it would be that hard to correct the spelling on my name. Why don't you go ahead and issue them as they are, I'm the only one who would notice, and the correct spelling would be on the back (well, for me anyway).

#2 - this is a bigger problem. While I think it would be cool to have a membership card, if there are only a few of us interested, I say to heck with it! I don't "need" a card! But if it's not a big imposition, maybe a user printable card would be good, but only if it's easy for Jeff to put together.

Scott.
 
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I voted to get one and I'll stick with that. After reading all the responses I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.

These are all valid points to consider as I've read the comments.

1. I don't believe charging to subscribe to the website will increase the membership, I honestly feel the membership will decline as people may not feel they are getting any return to their investment. But again, that's just me.

2. I was recently emailing a younger member (age wise) and the comment this person made was that their feeling was that within the next couple of decades the collective wealth of knowledge of our membership will be dropping off, to put it bluntly, as the older members begin to pass. It's a reality and no one is willing to address it but it needs to be addressed sooner than later. Our younger generation doesn't, for the most part, have the interest in the old hobbies of the past. Things have become very technically oriented. I show my work to my granddaughters and their eyes glass over. I'm not saying this is all the younger generation but I truly believe that it is greater than 80%. We need to as the older generation of woodworkers openly share our knowledge with the younger members and do it in a motherly/fatherly way. I've seen some pretty nasty posts on here when a younger member posts something that is obvious to us, but not to them. Instead of jumping all over them we need to embrace their desire to learn from us. We all started our hobbies with not much knowledge and either joined clubs or learned by trial and error. I know this has nothing to do with getting a membership card, but it does address to the dropping membership and that was my only point with this item.

3. Jeff, is their a way to do an email blast to every member, active or not, that would bring the card to their attention. I've been reviewing the membership and a lot have not been on in years and some in just the last few years. I think that if an email was sent to the members who have not been on in a few years you might stimulate some interest.

My intent in my post was not to irritate anyone or in any way offend them. These are just my thoughts and I'm hoping to be a positive influence on this subject.
 
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I really like the idea of self printing my own. I do all my shopping online and don't foresee using it to get a discount at any retailer. But you never know what the future holds. I would also pay for a lifetime membership to the IAP, as this organization has done more for my penmaking than anybody else, ever!
 

mbroberg

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I'm on my phone so I'll keep it short. Membership in the IAP would not be dependent on having card. Has never been considered. IAP has always free to join and, I can't speak for Jeff but I am willing to bet it always will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

keithncsu

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Here's some perspective from a newer (joined in 2016) and younger (33) member.

- I have no desire for a membership card. Therefore, I have not commented on, nor voted in any polls related to the desire them. I may have voted in the design poll but honestly can't remember. There are multiple reasons for this. 1 - last thing I need is another card taking up space in my wallet that doesn't get used. 2 - I think the only vendor I've seen that will take them is Woodcraft. Unless I need something same day and want to pay too much, I'm not going to Woodcraft. All of my supplies are purchased online because it is cheaper, even with shipping.

- I've seen numerous comments here over the years about the Facebook groups and how they are clogged with noobies asking the same questions over and over. And have even seen new members here get jumped on for not searching. While I get that seeing the same questions asked over and over gets old, this forum can be incredibly overwhelming and you aren't even sure where to start to find your answer. We all know the search tool is good...once you learn how to use it. Not to mention most are likely using their phones and this forum is horrendous while trying to do that. Facebook is much more user/phone friendly so they go there. Not to mention, let's just be honest, younger folks tend to be impatient. Facebook allows them to see replies without refreshing, subscribing, or getting notified by email. Not saying it is better, just pointing out why it may be preferred over a forum. I know the new forum may have some of these features coming, so who knows, this may change.

- I actually prefer the forum over Facebook. But I also like reading through old stuff rather than just asking. If I've asked something it is after searching to see if I can already read up on it. That is just my personality.

- Lastly, there are times I feel like this forum reminds me of a southern Baptist church (of which I'm a deacon at so I have experience :biggrin:). We all want new members, but want them to do it our way. We all want new ideas and perspectives, but aren't willing to hear/watch them go down the same roads we've been down to get there. Like somehow they should already know better. And oftentimes a seemingly unwillingness, or inability, to embrace change.

I could fill in more details and thoughts but this post is long enough.
 

jeff

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There never has been, nor will there ever be, a charge to join the IAP or use penturners.org

If this discussion/project of membership cards has given anyone the idea that there would be a cost to belong and participate, then we have gone way into the weeds.

1. I don't believe charging to subscribe to the website will increase the membership, I honestly feel the membership will decline as people may not feel they are getting any return to their investment. But again, that's just me.
 

jeff

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Here's some perspective from a newer (joined in 2016) and younger (33) member.

- I have no desire for a membership card. Therefore, I have not commented on, nor voted in any polls related to the desire them. I may have voted in the design poll but honestly can't remember. There are multiple reasons for this. 1 - last thing I need is another card taking up space in my wallet that doesn't get used. 2 - I think the only vendor I've seen that will take them is Woodcraft. Unless I need something same day and want to pay too much, I'm not going to Woodcraft. All of my supplies are purchased online because it is cheaper, even with shipping.

- I've seen numerous comments here over the years about the Facebook groups and how they are clogged with noobies asking the same questions over and over. And have even seen new members here get jumped on for not searching. While I get that seeing the same questions asked over and over gets old, this forum can be incredibly overwhelming and you aren't even sure where to start to find your answer. We all know the search tool is good...once you learn how to use it. Not to mention most are likely using their phones and this forum is horrendous while trying to do that. Facebook is much more user/phone friendly so they go there. Not to mention, let's just be honest, younger folks tend to be impatient. Facebook allows them to see replies without refreshing, subscribing, or getting notified by email. Not saying it is better, just pointing out why it may be preferred over a forum. I know the new forum may have some of these features coming, so who knows, this may change.

- I actually prefer the forum over Facebook. But I also like reading through old stuff rather than just asking. If I've asked something it is after searching to see if I can already read up on it. That is just my personality.

- Lastly, there are times I feel like this forum reminds me of a southern Baptist church (of which I'm a deacon at so I have experience :biggrin:). We all want new members, but want them to do it our way. We all want new ideas and perspectives, but aren't willing to hear/watch them go down the same roads we've been down to get there. Like somehow they should already know better. And oftentimes a seemingly unwillingness, or inability, to embrace change.

I could fill in more details and thoughts but this post is long enough.

Keith, thanks for the constructive post. Regarding using this forum on anything other than a computer, I agree, it's not pretty. The new forum software has a responsive style, which will make it much better on a phone. Push notifications, etc. We are also implementing a very powerful search engine (ElasticSearch), and our layout will evolve over time to make things easier to use.
 
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There never has been, nor will there ever be, a charge to join the IAP or use penturners.org

If this discussion/project of membership cards has given anyone the idea that there would be a cost to belong and participate, then we have gone way into the weeds.

1. I don't believe charging to subscribe to the website will increase the membership, I honestly feel the membership will decline as people may not feel they are getting any return to their investment. But again, that's just me.

Jeff- my response was from a post on the first page. I hope you don't think I'm suggesting a charge to join. That's the last thing I would suggest.
 

mbroberg

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Problem solved. I was able to replace the signatures on the preferred card with the proper spelling of Scott's last name. They may not be quite as fancy as the first ones were, but they match and are correct!!

I talked briefly with Jeff last week about where to go now. Given the low interest in this, my original plans are just not financially justifiable. We could go one of two ways with this. First, when time permits we (meaning Jeff) will explore how to provide a downloadable version of the card populated with a member's identifying information (Name, Member Number, Etc.). Members would download their own cards and laminate them. The good news is this will cost the member nothing other than the expense of their own ink, paper, and lamination. We could take it one step further and order a limited number of plastic cards that were printed with the above design on the front. These would be available to members who choose to purchase them at a nominal price. Members would then download the free version of the card and adhere or laminate the identification information to the back of the plastic card. If it should ever wear off, just download another and re-apply it.

There are several higher priority projects surrounding the new forum software, not to mention life in general, that will push this back again. But we will get there.
 

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Scott

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Mike! I think that looks great! And I think downloading is a great way to go! I know there are a lot more important things than membership cards, so thanks for working on these anyway!

Scott.
 

TonyL

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Keith, thanks for the constructive post. Regarding using this forum on anything other than a computer, I agree, it's not pretty. The new forum software has a responsive style, which will make it much better on a phone. Push notifications, etc. We are also implementing a very powerful search engine (ElasticSearch), and our layout will evolve over time to make things easier to use.
Card or no card. Three years ago, i reached out Hartvile Hardware about "my" woodworker club and they quickly agreed to 15% off plus free shipping. The club just sends them a list of members. I have enjoyed the discount twice over 3 years. Hartville didn't care if I had a card, an ID number, if my membership was paid, if I owned Dick Tracy decoder ring :). They just asked that the president or some ranking member send them the list.
Maybe I caught somewhere there on a good day or the liked my Yankee accent (I doubt it), but we the WW club still gets the discount. I just called their 800 number and asked to speak to someone responsible for club discounts. I as actually hoping for just 10% , but asked for 15 and they said yes. No card, no ID, secret handshake :) Just an idea.
 

Lucky2

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I don't remember seeing the info on membership cards, it would be cool to have a membership card, but not necessary in my mind. I would want one for sure if it's a go, but if it's not, that's not an issue for me either. I doubt that it would be much good for me to use here in Canada, but it would still be a nice thing to have. So, if its a go count me in, and if it's not a go, I think it's an opportunity missed. It would be a perfect way to raise funds for the site, charge whatever it costs for the membership card. Then charge a nominal fee that goes towards the IAP site, not a large amount but at least ten dollars. Then with even just a hundred of us buying in, a thousand dollars will be raised all together. Not a lot of money, but a lot better then none.

Len
 

RyanS

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Missed out on the first discussions, but I'd be in for one as well, whether it's a fundraiser or just an at-cost thing.
 

jeff

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Card or no card. Three years ago, i reached out Hartvile Hardware about "my" woodworker club and they quickly agreed to 15% off plus free shipping. The club just sends them a list of members. I have enjoyed the discount twice over 3 years. Hartville didn't care if I had a card, an ID number, if my membership was paid, if I owned Dick Tracy decoder ring :). They just asked that the president or some ranking member send them the list.
Maybe I caught somewhere there on a good day or the liked my Yankee accent (I doubt it), but we the WW club still gets the discount. I just called their 800 number and asked to speak to someone responsible for club discounts. I as actually hoping for just 10% , but asked for 15 and they said yes. No card, no ID, secret handshake :) Just an idea.

"The club just sends them a list of members."

That's the part that gives me heartburn. I'm not going to send the entire list, so we'd have to have an opt-in list for each vendor.
 

TonyL

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"The club just sends them a list of members."

That's the part that gives me heartburn. I'm not going to send the entire list, so we'd have to have an opt-in list for each vendor.
Didn't know, but thanks for the education!
 

MDWine

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While I don't think I need a card, I have always tried to support IAP any way I could.
I will get the card when/if it comes around... or I can just send you money... lol... Badges? we don't need.... lol
 
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