lacquer finish

[jbyrd24]

Over the past several months I've been using CA as a finish.
I like the durability but I'm not so sure I like the plastic
feel. Recently I've started using a high grade water based
lacquer. With this I love the feel, but am curious about the
durability with day to day use. Any input would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

 

[rtparso]

I have siad this a few times I put the CA on raw wood and let it soak in some then sand most of the CA off to leave a "stablized" wood surface much like a oil finish. It won't take a shine like a builtup finish. More of a satin finish. I wax with PPP for the final finish.

 

[DCBluesman]

A well executed lacquer finish will last more than 20 years in use. I have lacquer finished pens that are a lot older than that!

 

[jbyrd24]

Thanks.............Just what I wanted to hear.............[]

 

[ctEaglesc]

I have been experimenting with Deft spryy lacquer and on my most recent pen I cannot tell the difference between the spray lacquer multiple coats after a sanding sealer and a good CA finish.
I may be a "convertee".

 

[jbyrd24]

I have to agree with you Eagle. I like the finish alot. It does
take alittle longer, but I can live without the CA fumes.[]

 

[ctEaglesc]

For me the fumes are not the issue.
As you stated it takes a little longer,but the application is a no brainer and there is no risk of "ghosts" that sometimes appear with no explanation.
I have spent far longer fixing a "buggered" CA finish than it takes to put the lacqure on even with the waiting between coats.
I will still depend on a CA finish for corn cobs, denim, string, rope etc.

 

[jbyrd24]

I agree Eagle. I believe I'm also a convert to lacquer (most of the
time). Thanks for all of the nice comments.[]

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />For me the fumes are not the issue.If my lathe is on, so is my dust collector.
As you stated it takes a little longer,but the application is a no brainer and there is no risk of "ghosts" that sometimes appear with no explanation.
I have spent far longer fixing a "buggered" CA finish than it takes to put the lacquer on, even with the waiting between coats.
I will still depend on a CA finish for corn cobs, denim, string, rope,paper etc.

 

[rtparso]

Ok, How do setup and apply spray lac. I tried and I get drips and a mess.

 

[Czarcastic]

I use lacquer all the time. Most of my turnings (not jsut pens) get either a spray lacquer or - for really special pieces - a seal-a-cell/arm-r-seal finish.

I tried the cans of Deft, which is incredibly easy to use, and of the behelens "master" and can not tell a difference between the two for the price difference.

You just have to remember that lacquer BUILDS, so multiple THIN coats is MUCH BETTER than one thick coat.

"If you rush it, it will run"

I recently switched to a sprayer that works off my small compressor, and saves me BIG $$$ on lacquer.

Here is the gun I bought (on sale for $9.99!!!)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=86

I bought deft "brush-on" lacquer at Lowes in both gloss and semi-gloss for about $8.00 a quart, and thin it with lacquer thinner.
I use a 3:2 ratio of lacquer to thinner, but you can try 2:1 if you want to put on less coats.

The spray is easly controlled and very even. Just remember lots of thin coats about 1/2 hour apart is better than a few thick ones. Let it set for a day or two before buffing if needed (usually don't need)

 

[Chris Hare]

Is the spray method result different from using Deft from the Can (wipe-on)? I have used both straight deft and 50% deft / 50% DNA with good results. But I have not tried the spray yet.

 

[Czarcastic]

Chris:
As far as I know, the "wipe on" and "brush on" are the same animal. My can says "Brush on."
I have never used DNA to thin. Lacquer thinner is all I have ever used.
A 50-50 blend seems thin to me, but if you say it works for you, then go for it. I might try it in fact, but with LT, not DNA.

Thats the nice thing about lacquer: If you don't like the way it's setting up, just put some LT on a rag, wipe off the finish, and start over. Can't tell you how many times I've had to do that. []

 

[ctEaglesc]

I spray the blank while it is still on the mandrel/lathe.
Wait 30 mins and sand with MM. Repeat
The amount of coats will depend on what type of surface you start your "finish" with.
Since I hav only done one pen with it and am extremely happy with the results I would rather not give out "tips"
I will say that I used a cellulose sanding sealer prior to the application of the spray lacquer.
One thing I did note. You may think you are not putting much of a finish on but that is because(I think) you are still "sealing" until the surface is level.
I do blow off the blank with a compressor between coats.
The lacquer dust will fill gaps as you go and stick out like a sore thumb.
(No reference in tended to any forum members)
Any thoughts the surface is TOO polished to have the finish adhere is a bunch of crap.

 

[Chris Hare]

Thanks, Eagle
I will start the second coat a lot sooner, I have been waiting 24 hrs. between coats. This should reduce the finish time greatly.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Chris Hare
<br />Is the spray method result different from using Deft from the Can (wipe-on)? I have used both straight deft and 50% deft / 50% DNA with good results. But I have not tried the spray yet.

Originally posted by Chris Hare
<br />Thanks, Eagle
I will start the second coat a lot sooner, I have been waiting 24 hrs. between coats. This should reduce the finish time greatly.

I just re read your earlier post.
DNA is not the solvent for lacquer, Lacquer thinner is reccomended.
I don't know what will happen with alcahol but I am not going to try it.
The other thing I want to point out is The can says it is dry to the touch after 30 mins.
I just was at the Deft site and it says recoat after 2 hours.
I only waited 30 mins and when I re-sanded I used a foam pad backing up the MM using the 3rd pulley on the Jet (whatever speed that is)
A LIGHT touch and I mean very light touch is needed otherwise you will melt the MM and you will have a mess on your blank.
Should you feel your touch is too luight and you are not getting anything accomplished, just wipe the dust off teh MM and see what happens after you try it again.
(DAMHIKTT)

 

[Jim Boyd]

I must be really impatient[] 10/15 minutes between coats and 0000 steel wool between coats. I use the spray can and spray while on the mandrel. Let dry over night or all day(which ever comes first) and then McGuires fine swirl remover. Yum!!!! []

 

[RPM]

I now use Deft exclusively on my pens. I typically lay on 3-4 light coats with 45 min in between. I find that if the coats are put on properly, the MM in between coats does not really help unless some dust collected on the lacquer before it dries. After all, each successive coat softens and partially disolve the under layers causing them to flow together. One other thing I have not seen mentioned here, like Eagle, I finish on the mandrel on the lathe with the lathe running. I leave the lathe running for 3-4 minutes while the initial cure takes place. I find that that helps minimize the possiblity of dust.
Richard

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by RPM
<br />I now use Deft exclusively on my pens. I typically lay on 3-4 light coats with 45 min in between. I find that if the coats are put on properly, the MM in between coats does not really help unless some dust collected on the lacquer before it dries. After all, each successive coat softens and partially disolve the under layers causing them to flow together. One other thing I have not seen mentioned here, like Eagle, I finish on the mandrel on the lathe with the lathe running. I leave the lathe running for 3-4 minutes while the initial cure takes place. I find that that helps minimize the possiblity of dust.
Richard

I don't mind disagreeing with you
I did not find that the case, each succesive sanding showed enhanced appearance.

The purpose of the MM is to level out the finish.
It is true the laquer will soften the underlying coat, but spray Deft acts as its' own sealer.
By sanding with MM I am assuring the pores are filled and I have a level surface.By blowing off the blank with compressed air I am doing everything I can to insure I don't have any debris in low spots.
The aerosol can is not an air brush so the accuracy of how I spray it on can cretainly be questioned.Spraying anything is not one of my fortes.

 

[Glass Scratcher]

I just re read your earlier post.
DNA is not the solvent for lacquer, Lacquer thinner is reccomended.
I don't know what will happen with alcahol but I am not going to try it.

I'm just curious about a few things and don't mean to spin the blank free of the brass so to speak, but probably will...

How is the resistance of the final lacquer finish. Does the cured Lacquer finish hold up against DNA, isopropal, or windex even? I was under the impression that Lacquer would desolve in DNA. Not that your average pen buyer would drop their pen in DNA, but one never knows.

How is this Lacquer finish different than that of Waynes Enduro finish method?

Again I am just wondering.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Glass Scratcher
<br />

I just re read your earlier post.
DNA is not the solvent for lacquer, Lacquer thinner is reccomended.
I don't know what will happen with alcahol but I am not going to try it.

I'm just curious about a few things and don't mean to spin the blank free of the brass so to speak, but probably will...

How is the resistance of the final lacquer finish. Does the cured Lacquer finish hold up against DNA, isopropal, or windex even? I was under the impression that Lacquer would desolve in DNA. Not that your average pen buyer would drop their pen in DNA, but one never knows.

How is this Lacquer finish different than that of Waynes Enduro finish method?
Again I am just wondering.

I can't say since I have never used Enduro.If I were to care to try a water born poly there are plenty at my disposal at the local Borg, I see no reason to order Enduro for a test.
To me, plastic is plastic.It's the method of application that is the difference.I don't care to apply a water born finish on a wood pen.
That's my take ,I realize there are other schools of thought.The idea is to use what works best for you and for the customer if you are selling your work.
Some where I remember reading a statement about finishes on a pen and I wish I could remember who said it so I could credit the remeark.
"I guarantee all my finishes to wear off, it's only a matter of time."

This topic was discussed earlier this year(Thanks for the great search function Jeff!,this is one of the few sites where you can actually refer to a thread if you know it exists)
It is not surprising that the enduro has good ratings for hardness since it is still a "plastic".(I imagine the solids are similar to those found in CA)
Each finish has a trade off.
Ease of application is an important consideration in any finish, though it is not the only one.I have made pens that were encased in CA so much they resembled the plastic bar tops.Some people like that feel, some don't.
If I know a pen is going to get rough use as in a nurse who wanted an outrageous click pen that she would jam in her uniform slacks pocket I reccomended a CA finish.
For the buisness man that will put it in a breast pocket I might use a lacquer finish.
In the event the finish needs to be repaired the lacquer pen I believe would be easier to repair. Again just my take.
Her's a link to the thread that appeared earlier this year.
In it are some comments from Russ Fairfield.
I like to think of Russ as the <b>Dean Whitter of the IAP</b>:
"When Russ speaks, everybody listens".
http://www.penturners.org/forum/top...PIC_ID=2713&SearchTerms=Hardness,scale,finish
Also I suggest you go to Russes site and read his article about finishes.He describes just about all, Pro's and cons.
His site can be found on the IAP home page though it is a well kept secret.
It's in the favorites under:
"Making a pen"
At the top of the page is the link to finishing secrets
http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Pen10.html

 

[Glass Scratcher]

Well, I was really asking the group as a whole regarding the differences not necessarily yourself. I probably should have made the distinction more clear. I suppose that as the Enduro method is a Sticky at the top of the Finishing forum, and we have heard about the CA finish and the CA/BLo finish, and many people have used Deft... I was looking for a more widespread discussion on the wearabilty/durability across the board of Deft versus "xyz finish" as well as Deft versus Enduro.

Originally posted by cteaglesc
I can't say since I have never used Enduro.If I were to care to try a water born poly there are plenty at my disposal at the local Borg, I see no reason to order Enduro for a test.

As to plastic is plastic, well that is just not so. True Lacquer and true Shellac are not plastic. While ease of application may be a driving factor for you, that wasn't the question. Hardness does not necessarily describe durability. I am interrested in durabilty.

To me, plastic is plastic.It's the method of application that is the difference.

Yes I seem to remember having read the previous thread, and I even have Russ's web pages bookmarked, as they are very informative. However the previous thread does not address the question of comparative durability. Again hardness does not completely describe durability.

Her's a link to the thread that appeared earlier this year.
In it are some comments from Russ Fairfield. I like to think of Russ as the <b>Dean Whitter of the IAP</b>: "When Russ speaks, everybody listens". http://www.penturners.org/forum/top...PIC_ID=2713&SearchTerms=Hardness,scale,finish
Also I suggest you go to Russes site and read his article about finishes.He describes just about all, Pro's and cons.

To quote Russ's site:
FINISHING SECRETS…
1. Quick and durable ARE NOT mutually inclusive properties of a finish on a piece of wood. Finishing takes time; and the better the finish, the more time it takes.


The reason I am asking about the durability of Deft Lacquer is from my experiences I had on a project last year with <b>customer supplied</b> lacquered plates. They had to be engraved with the company logo and sitation. Well the Lacquer would chip off from handling, masking, moving them, even looking at them wrong- the lacquer would chip off, the solution was to remove the lacquer which just took a spritz of DNA and a liberal wiping of papertowel.

I tested a product last year called Silon. It looked fantastic as a final finish in place of wax, but only for awhile. It was a glass suspension(in a catylized polymer) it was extremely durable for a short time. As a test of the scratch resistance on relatively soft plastic we put it on CDs and scuffed them on the pavement and there would be hardly a scratch. One way to get it off after catylizing was the use of strong acid the other was to just wait. The drawback of the product was that it had a terminal application life of 6-9 months, then it would chip off unless you renewed the product. Within a year it would scale off whatever it was put on unless it was renewed. We didn't adopt the product as we didn't want to be constantly renewing the product on every surface it was put on. So I would say that overall Silon was not durable.

I'm not asking anyone to go out and buy products and try them out. I am asking about the real world durability of the finish you use. I also know that all finishes wear. The question is how well do they handle that wear. How long until you have to renew the finish? Does your chosen finish Deft, CA, Camel spit, protect against: handling wear, water, sweat, windex, coffee(staining), alchohol(iso and DNA), cat chewing(A problem I have with one of my cats...), or any other incidental wear/chemical and for how long?


.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Glass scratcher-
The last time I looked I was still a member and contribute on a regular basis.
Since there is no way for a reply to come from the IAP unless a moderator or Jeff makes it I guess we all answer one at a time.
I didn't realize there was a sticky about enduro, I view each forum by active topics, that way I don't have to read[sic bothersome outdated] sticky's.
As far as wear I tell my customers in a written sheet that the pen is wood and as such should be cared for as a fine piece of furniture.
If they stir their coffee with a piano leg that's up to them.
I also suggest a coat of furniture wax occasionally isn't a bad idea.

( edit in)
You mentioned an experience you had with plates

"The reason I am asking about the durability of Deft Lacquer is from my experiences I had on a project last year with customer supplied lacquered plates. They had to be engraved with the company logo and sitation. Well the Lacquer would chip off from handling, masking, moving them, even looking at them wrong- the lacquer would chip off, the solution was to remove the lacquer which just took a spritz of DNA and a liberal wiping of papertowel."

Rather than give any ideas as to why this happened( I certainly am no expert on finishes) <b>I am wondering what the plates were made of,what type of prep was done, and how many coats of Deft was applied and the manner it was applied.</b>Your lack of crucial information suggests to someone who has not tried it that it is not a good product.
Perhaps you used Eduro on the plates and satisfied with the results?

 

[Jim Boyd]

What ever you removed with DNA could not have been a lacquer. Lacquer is my finish of choice for goblets because of its resistance to achohol. DNA is the solvent for shellac IIRC.

p.s. RPM thanks for the tip about running the lathe with wet lacquer. I have always stopped it on larger bowls because of the bumps it causes. Seems not to be the case on small itens like pens. I tried it yesterday on 2 shell casings. Worked perfectly! Thanks![]

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Some good words of wisdom in this thread, Thanks!

 

[gerryr]

I've read through this thread a couple of times and went out and bought some Deft spray lacquer yesterday, but I still have a question. When refer to using "MM" between coats, what specifically do you mean? Do you start at 1500 and go all the way to 12000 each time or something else?

Thanks.

 

[Glass Scratcher]

Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />Glass scratcher-
The last time I looked I was still a member and contribute on a regular basis.

I never said nor implied that you were not a member. I am glad that everyone can contribute and respond as often as they want, can or even feel compelled to. I was just pointing out why I was mentioning Enduro as it is a sticky at the head of the forum.

( edit in)
You mentioned an experience you had with plates
"The reason I am asking about the durability of Deft Lacquer is from my experiences I had on a project last year with customer supplied lacquered plates. They had to be engraved with the company logo and sitation. Well the Lacquer would chip off from handling, masking, moving them, even looking at them wrong- the lacquer would chip off, the solution was to remove the lacquer which just took a spritz of DNA and a liberal wiping of papertowel."

Rather than give any ideas as to why this happened( I certainly am no expert on finishes) <b>I am wondering what the plates were made of,what type of prep was done, and how many coats of Deft was applied and the manner it was applied.</b>Your lack of crucial information suggests to someone who has not tried it that it is not a good product.
Perhaps you used Eduro on the plates and satisfied with the results?

I did not say they were Lacquered with Deft, or any other specific brand. I said that they were <b>customer supplied Lacquered plates</b>. I am saying that they were Lacquered because that is what the tag on the back of the things described them as. I am betting that they were bought at some froo-froo, discount, garden, pots and plates, outlet chain type shop at a very-cheap price point. Again I will point out I did not say they had Deft on them. I also didn't say I used Enduro on the plates. I was pointing out that the lacquer on the objects that I had experience with, was not durable. It quite possibly was barely "Lacquer" as well.

Fact is I haven't used Enduro either- that is one of the, I suppose, implied reasons for asking the forum about real world experiences with Deft versus anything. I am not hung up on any finish except to say I am not a fan of CA.

.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Glass Scratcher
<br />

Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />Glass scratcher-
The last time I looked I was still a member and contribute on a regular basis.

I never said nor implied that you were not a member. I am glad that everyone can contribute and respond as often as they want, can or even feel compelled to. I was just pointing out why I was mentioning Enduro as it is a sticky at the head of the forum.

( edit in)
You mentioned an experience you had with plates
"The reason I am asking about the durability of Deft Lacquer is from my experiences I had on a project last year with customer supplied lacquered plates. They had to be engraved with the company logo and sitation. Well the Lacquer would chip off from handling, masking, moving them, even looking at them wrong- the lacquer would chip off, the solution was to remove the lacquer which just took a spritz of DNA and a liberal wiping of papertowel."

Rather than give any ideas as to why this happened( I certainly am no expert on finishes) <b>I am wondering what the plates were made of,what type of prep was done, and how many coats of Deft was applied and the manner it was applied.</b>Your lack of crucial information suggests to someone who has not tried it that it is not a good product.
Perhaps you used Eduro on the plates and satisfied with the results?

I did not say they were Lacquered with Deft, or any other specific brand. I said that they were <b>customer supplied Lacquered plates</b>. I am saying that they were Lacquered because that is what the tag on the back of the things described them as. I am betting that they were bought at some froo-froo, discount, garden, pots and plates, outlet chain type shop at a very-cheap price point. Again I will point out I did not say they had Deft on them. I also didn't say I used Enduro on the plates. I was pointing out that the lacquer on the objects that I had experience with, was not durable. It quite possibly was barely "Lacquer" as well.

Fact is I haven't used Enduro either- that is one of the, I suppose, implied reasons for asking the forum about real world experiences with Deft versus anything. I am not hung up on any finish except to say I am not a fan of CA.

.

Geeze I hate to pick nits, but this is a direct quote from your post.

"The reason I am asking about the durability of Deft Lacquer is from my experiences I had on a project last year with customer supplied lacquered plates. They had to be engraved with the company logo and sitation. Well the Lacquer would chip off from handling, masking, moving them, even looking at them wrong- the lacquer would chip off, the solution was to remove the lacquer which just took a spritz of DNA and a liberal wiping of papertowel."

Please note the sentence I highlighted in red.
It infers to me since you mentioned Deft specifically in the sentence.
I realize it could be read another way.
A general mention of Customer supplied lacquer plates might not have had the implied meaqning I got.
As far as an answer to your question have you considered a poll in a new thread as opposed to burying your question in this thread?

 

[Glass Scratcher]

Originally posted by Jim Boyd
<br />What ever you removed with DNA could not have been a lacquer. Lacquer is my finish of choice for goblets because of its resistance to achohol. DNA is the solvent for shellac IIRC.

The term Lacquer has become derivative to mean just about any coating out of a can. And this goes directly to the point. What type of Lacquer are you using? There is Lacquer made from the sap from a variety of trees depending on what part of the orient you happen to be looking at. There is nitro-cellulose Lacquer. There are the synthetic Lacquers (acrylic, polyester, polyeurythane...)

There are water based Lacquers (Enduro, cough). Which is where this thread started when Bryan posted- not that he mentioned any particular brand...

Recently I've started using a high grade water based
lacquer. With this I love the feel, but am curious about the
durability with day to day use. Any input would be greatly
appreciated.

<b>Durability</b> is what the thread originator asked about, as did I.

 

[Glass Scratcher]

Geeze I hate to pick nits, but this is a direct quote from your post.

"The reason I am asking about the durability of Deft Lacquer is from my experiences I had on a project last year with customer supplied lacquered plates. They had to be engraved with the company logo and sitation. Well the Lacquer would chip off from handling, masking, moving them, even looking at them wrong- the lacquer would chip off, the solution was to remove the lacquer which just took a spritz of DNA and a liberal wiping of papertowel."

Please note the sentence I highlighted in red.
It infers to me since you mentioned Deft specifically in the sentence.
I realize it could be read another way.
A general mention of Customer supplied lacquer plates might not have had the implied meaqning I got.
As far as an answer to your question have you considered a poll in a new thread as opposed to burying your question in this thread?

HMMM, I may very well have been unclear by not making 2 distinct sentances. I certainly didn't mean to befuddle the point by doing so. However that still doesn't get us to a discussion of the durability of Deft V. any other finish.

I don't believe a yes/no numbers poll will quell my or others curiosity over durability. And this takes us back to how the thread started, when Bryan originally requested input, in the very first message of the thread.

Over the past several months I've been using CA as a finish.
I like the durability but I'm not so sure I like the plastic
feel. Recently I've started using a high grade water based
lacquer. With this I love the feel, but am curious about the
<b>durability</b> with day to day use. Any input would be greatly
appreciated.

.

 

[DCBluesman]

With regard to lacquer, I think I gave a fairly succinct answer to Bryan's question. In addition, I have a 1924 Victrola which has been in my family since it was purchased. It has it's original lacquer and is in pristine condition. While only the lift-top and the doors have had extensive use, I think 80+ years is a good test of time.

 

[gerryr]

I think my question got lost up there so I'll state it again. What grades of MM are you using betweeen coats, all the way from 1500 to 12000(which seems excessive to me) or something less?

 

[ctEaglesc]

IT would depend on how well the wood is sanded.Deft acts as its' own sealer though there is the option of also using a sanding sealer.
Personally On the one I have done with spray I used all grits of MM.
The finish is worth it.
I don't believe there is a cut and dry answer.Keep trying until you get the results you are after.
I like the wood on say a walnut pen to be solid, others like the pores to show.
All this takes time and effort based on the results you are after.

 

[gerryr]

I always sand to 12000, but it sounds like I need to do some experiementing with my supply of Rocky Mountain Juniper.

 

[Glass Scratcher]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />With regard to lacquer, I think I gave a fairly succinct answer to Bryan's question. In addition, I have a 1924 Victrola which has been in my family since it was purchased. It has it's original lacquer and is in pristine condition. While only the lift-top and the doors have had extensive use, I think 80+ years is a good test of time.

Yes, you did thank you. Shortly there after the thread seems to have jumped to Deft.

Your Victrolas finish then would be Urishol?(Japanese Lacquer) or nitro-cellulose?

.

 

[RussFairfield]

Japanese lacquer is "urushi".

"Urishol" is the oil in poison ivy that makes it the way it is.

 

[timdaleiden]

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Japanese lacquer is "urushi".

"Urishol" is the oil in poison ivy that makes it the way it is.

I wonder if anybody has ever tried "poison ivy oil" as a finish for pens?????[?][]

Maybe the resident mad scientist would like to give it a go. [B)]

I'll stick with more traditional finishes...[]

 

[DCBluesman]

The lacquer on the Victrola is nitrocellulose, Charles. Urushi, of which urushiol is an ingredient, is not practical in mass production due to the curing difficulties. I have three pens in progress where I am finishing them with urushi. It is a months long process as urushi does not cure by traditional evaporation, but by oxidation through the controlled application of heat and high humidity. Russ is absolutely right, the urushiol in urushi is the same active ingredient in poison ivy which causes the skin eruptions and rash. Until cured, it is considered to be mildly toxic.

 

[Old Griz]

Probably more than you will ever want to know about urushi..
http://www.sakurako.com/WhatisUrushi.html
http://www.nihon-kogeikai.com/TEBIKI-E/3.html

 

[alamocdc]

HHHMMMMMMMM... makes one ponder... the wood from this tree might make for a nice pen... it should be self finishing. Just polish. [] Another thought, this is a Sumac... is it the one and same Poison Sumac we have here? If it isn't, it has the same sap ingredient.