Just a Little Short

[jcm71]

No I did not over trim these. Here are five Art Deco ballpoints I completed today. As you can see the refills extend just a skosh too far, and barely retract inside the nib opening. I'm considering using some blue loctite and backing off the twist mechanism a turn or two.

 

[magpens]

Do those pens have the kit-supplied refill installed ?

If so, before you alter the pen in any way, you might want to try a high-quality refill in each . . . perhaps the Schmidt 9000.

Also check the fit of the spring on the refill. . Some springs have a narrow end .. reversing the spring might make a difference.

Just a couple of things to think about, if you haven't already, and try if appropriate.

 

[jcm71]

Thanks for the suggestions, Mal. Tried both with same result. I am curious if anyone else has experience this with the AD ballpoint. I know I did not over trim them.

 

[Stephen]

Try trimming off the plunger that extends and retracts inside the mechanism.

 

[jcm71]

Try trimming off the plunger that extends and retracts inside the mechanism.

Good idea if I could figure out how to do it. The top of the plunger is at least 1/8 inch below the opening of the mechanism when in the full extend position. Suggestions?

 

[KMCloonan]

Is the transmission a press fit? Maybe it's pressed in a bit too far? If it's a screw-in, I don't have any suggestion other than a workaround - I have snipped some off the bottom end of the refill (the plastic portion) - I do this gradually, until it gets to the correct length.

 

[KMCloonan]

I forgot to say, I really like the pens, despite the proud nib

 

[jcm71]

Is the transmission a press fit? Maybe it's pressed in a bit too far? If it's a screw-in, I don't have any suggestion other than a workaround - I have snipped some off the bottom end of the refill (the plastic portion) - I do this gradually, until it gets to the correct length.

Is the transmission a press fit? Maybe it's pressed in a bit too far? If it's a screw-in, I don't have any suggestion other than a workaround - I have snipped some off the bottom end of the refill (the plastic portion) - I do this gradually, until it gets to the correct length.

Screw in, Kevin. Snipping off the end of the refill is not a good selling point, and a good way to ruin one's rep when the owner has to replace the refill.

 

[magpens]

@BURLMAN
So it would seem, from your reply to my suggestions above, that the refills you're presently using have the correct length.

ONE thought .....

It looks like the excessive protrusion of the refill is roughly a millimeter or so . . . about 0.040" +/- . . . perhaps a bit more.

Researching the correct brass tube length . . . . thinking that maybe PSI provided the wrong brass tubes in those Art Deco kits.
I think that's an unlikely possibility, but it might be worth checking . . . . with approximate . . but close . . actual measurements on the pens.

I checked the PSI instruction sheet. . Usually they specify the brass tube length . . . . but not in this case ( Art Deco ballpoint ).

https://www.pennstateind.com/library/PKART5B-6B_ins.pdf

However, the length is stated in a file here in the IAP Resources . . . which gives the length as 1.991" . . . darn close to 2.00"

Penn State Tubing Lengths - 2015

Great Listing from Tony from 2015 of PSI tube lengths. Click here or on the image below to download the PDF. Author: Tony from PSI

www.penturners.org

If you have a good set of calipers . . . and without disassembling the pens . . . you should be able to measure the barrels on the above pens.

IF there is a discrepancy . . . a phone call to PSI would be in order . . . not that they can do much at this stage, other than replace the kits.

*****
SECOND thought .....

From the instruction sheet, I get the impression that the transmission screws into the top end of the COUPLER piece.

IF disassembly is possible, and the COUPLER is removed from the pen barrel . . . . . a "washer" of the correct diameter and thickness
could be placed over the lower end of the COUPLER, effectively adding length to the barrel.

But you'd want to be sure lengthening the barrel in this way wouldn't be problematic in the future when replacing the refill.
One thing you'd have to be absolutely sure of is that the present refills are indeed the correct length, and match a "standard Parker".

*****
THIRD thought ..... re: your own thought "I'm considering using some blue loctite and backing off the twist mechanism a turn or two."

Before you do that, you'd want to be darn sure that your refills are the correct length . . . thinking ahead to future refill replacement.


Just trying to think through the problem you are having . . . . rather a tricky one. . . . I think a phone call to PSI would be appropriate.

I hope you will inform us of what "solution" you eventually come up with, John.

 

[Stephen]

Good idea if I could figure out how to do it. The top of the plunger is at least 1/8 inch below the opening of the mechanism when in the full extend position. Suggestions?

Good idea if I could figure out how to do it. The top of the plunger is at least 1/8 inch below the opening of the mechanism when in the full extend position. Suggestions?

The plungers are not attached to the driving piston. The piston pushes the plunger for extension and it is the spring that pushes the free floating plunger when the piston retracts. I have been able to pull the plunger out by jamming a rod in the hollow plunger. In some cases where the plunger is difficult to be removed in situ hand drilling is the option.
Hope this helps and would like to know your results. Good luck.

 

[qquake]

I haven't made any Art Deco pens since 2016. I no longer have them in my possession. I do have some photos, however, but unfortunately none of them with the refills retracted. Extended, it looks like they do stick out a little more than other pens, but not as far as yours. Like all pens, I trimmed them just until the ends of the brass tube were shiny. So I don't know what happened with yours. Are you sure you didn't trim them a little too much?

 

[jcm71]

I forgot to say, I really like the pens, despite the proud nib

Thanks.

@BURLMAN
So it would seem, from your reply to my suggestions above, that the refills you're presently using have the correct length.

ONE thought .....

It looks like the excessive protrusion of the refill is roughly a millimeter or so . . . about 0.040" +/- . . . perhaps a bit more.

Researching the correct brass tube length . . . . thinking that maybe PSI provided the wrong brass tubes in those Art Deco kits.
I think that's an unlikely possibility, but it might be worth checking . . . . with approximate . . but close . . actual measurements on the pens.

I checked the PSI instruction sheet. . Usually they specify the brass tube length . . . . but not in this case ( Art Deco ballpoint ).

https://www.pennstateind.com/library/PKART5B-6B_ins.pdf

However, the length is stated in a file here in the IAP Resources . . . which gives the length as 1.991" . . . darn close to 2.00"

Penn State Tubing Lengths - 2015

Great Listing from Tony from 2015 of PSI tube lengths. Click here or on the image below to download the PDF. Author: Tony from PSI

www.penturners.org

If you have a good set of calipers . . . and without disassembling the pens . . . you should be able to measure the barrels on the above pens.

IF there is a discrepancy . . . a phone call to PSI would be in order . . . not that they can do much at this stage, other than replace the kits.

*****
SECOND thought .....

From the instruction sheet, I get the impression that the transmission screws into the top end of the COUPLER piece.

IF disassembly is possible, and the COUPLER is removed from the pen barrel . . . . . a "washer" of the correct diameter and thickness
could be placed over the lower end of the COUPLER, effectively adding length to the barrel.

But you'd want to be sure lengthening the barrel in this way wouldn't be problematic in the future when replacing the refill.
One thing you'd have to be absolutely sure of is that the present refills are indeed the correct length, and match a "standard Parker".

*****
THIRD thought ..... re: your own thought "I'm considering using some blue loctite and backing off the twist mechanism a turn or two."

Before you do that, you'd want to be darn sure that your refills are the correct length . . . thinking ahead to future refill replacement.


Just trying to think through the problem you are having . . . . rather a tricky one. . . . I think a phone call to PSI would be appropriate.

I hope you will inform us of what "solution" you eventually come up with, John.

Mal,
I measured the blanks as you suggested. They all come out to about 1 63/64 inches (1.984), well within the measurements called for in the IAP app. I am mystified as to why the refills extended so far. The only thing I can think of is that the t.uses need to be about 1/16 " longer. I decided to go the loctite route. I applied loctite to the mechanism threads, screwed it in all the way, and then backed it out two revolutions. Let them sit for a couple of hours, and now good to go. Now off to PSI for a review.

 

[jcm71]

I haven't made any Art Deco pens since 2016. I no longer have them in my possession. I do have some photos, however, but unfortunately none of them with the refills retracted. Extended, it looks like they do stick out a little more than other pens, but not as far as yours. Like all pens, I trimmed them just until the ends of the brass tube were shiny. So I don't know what happened with yours. Are you sure you didn't trim them a little too much?

Positive. Used the me technique as you, using a Woodpeckers barrel trimmer.

 

[magpens]

Mal,
I decided to go the loctite route. I applied loctite to the mechanism threads, screwed it in all the way, and then backed it out two revolutions. Let them sit for a couple of hours, and now good to go.

Two revolutions might not be quite enough, as the threads on the mechanism are very finely pitched . . certainly worth a try.
Let us know the result, please.

I guess with blue loctite you can always remove the part . . . . with a bit of effort . . . . if you have to.

Now off to PSI for a review.

5 STARS, no doubt !! . . The pens are beautiful !!

 

[Tom A]

No I did not over trim these. Here are five Art Deco ballpoints I completed today. As you can see the refills extend just a skosh too far, and barely retract inside the nib opening. I'm considering using some blue loctite and backing off the twist mechanism a turn or two.View attachment 320707

Where do you get those AD kits?

 

[magpens]

@Tom A

Where do you get those AD kits?

Penn State Industries
ExoticBlanks

. . . .

 

[Turning Around]

No I did not over trim these. Here are five Art Deco ballpoints I completed today. As you can see the refills extend just a skosh too far, and barely retract inside the nib opening. I'm considering using some blue loctite and backing off the twist mechanism a turn or two.View attachment 320707

The fact is with expensive kits like the AD one should not encounter this kind of problem provided (as we are assured has happened here) there has been no over trimming. I have made these kits in the past without difficulty so am persuaded it could be a fault with the kit parts - in which case I would ask PSI or whomever else supplied them for a refund. Quality of kits is not always as it should be and I don't think we pen turners complain enough when we receive a poor kit.

 

[WriteON]

Good idea if I could figure out how to do it. The top of the plunger is at least 1/8 inch below the opening of the mechanism when in the full extend position. Suggestions?

Sharp drill it. Hand twist it only. I did a thread on this. When I do kits I make one pen to check the fit...then I'll proceed to finish the rest of the kits.

 

[WriteON]

Sharp drill it. Hand twist it only. I did a thread on this. When I do kits I make one pen to check the fit...then I'll proceed to finish the rest of the kits.

Use sharp Drill bit to trim moving part in the twist

 

[jcm71]

For those still following, here is WriteOn's post on how to trim the plunger. https://www.penturners.org/threads/enough-is-enough.164890/

 

[MJK]

No I did not over trim these. Here are five Art Deco ballpoints I completed today. As you can see the refills extend just a skosh too far, and barely retract inside the nib opening. I'm considering using some blue loctite and backing off the twist mechanism a turn or two.View attachment 320707

Compare your finished tube to specs.
I had this happen with slim line twist pens. I didn't think I over trimmed them either. But when I measured the finished barrel it was short compared to specs. So I did over trim them or the tubes were short to begin with.

 

[jcm71]

Frank's solution is the way to go. I used red loctite and backed off the mechanism two revolutions. As Mal suggested earlier, this was not enough, as the refill still protruded too far for my liking. As I now couldn't unscrew the mechanisms, I unscrewed the nib, removed the refill, and using a 15/64 bit by hand, shaved the plastic insert down, rechecking often until I was satisfied. Five pens ready to go. Thank you everyone.

 

[RunnerVince]

Screw in, Kevin. Snipping off the end of the refill is not a good selling point, and a good way to ruin one's rep when the owner has to replace the refill.

I recently had a client request a slimline style pen with a Zebra F-style refill. Despite all the ingenuity I threw at it, I couldn't figure out a way to make it work without major modifications. And even with that (inverted the transmission and pressed it into the upper tube, drilled out the transmission to allow more room for the refill, pressed the transmission in as far as I could without comprimising the friction fit between the transmission and the lower tube), I still had to trim a bit off the back of the refill.
Since I had to buy the refill in packs of two, I trimmed the other refill to work and included instructions for future refills. I also discussed that this was all necessary to accommodate his request. But absent the special request, I completely agree with you. I wracked my brain to figure out how to avoid the client having to do anything special to keep the pen functioning, but it just wasn't to be. On the bright side, the client was pleased and has ordered additional pens from me as gifts for others (though with no customization, thankfully).