Issue with Glu Boost

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ramaroodle

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Been using GB for about 6 months and loved it and had no issues. But, in the last week or so I've been getting patches of a slight fogging/haziness somewhere between the blank and the top coat of GB causing me to have to use a skew or sand paper and take it back down to bare wood.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem? Only things I can think of:

1. It's a little colder in the shop than during the summer.
2. I'm using too much accelerator (but no more than before)
3. Bad batch of GB?
4. This happens on blanks that have been glued with CA and Gorilla Glue and dried overnight.

I'm not doing anything different than I have in the past I don't think but maybe I am. As I said the whole blank isn't hazy but there are patches of it.

Thanks in advance.
 
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JohnU

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Are you using it on a wood blank? Could be moisture reacting with the glue. I’m in the process of finishing 60 tubes of alumilite casts with GluBoost and I haven’t had that problem yet. ....yet. I’ve been applying 5 thin coats with the lathe on a low speed, and one short spray of accelerator across the blank while spinning between each coat. Then wet sanding with micro mesh. So far so good. Hope you figure out the problem.
 

leehljp

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Cooler temps and humidity can cause it. High humidity can cause the wood to absorb some then the heat from turning and sanding will draw it out to the CA GluBoost and show up as cloudy.
 

Monty

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I too have had that problem on three different blanks on different days, different shop temperatures and humidity on each blanks, rosewood burl, olive wood and a laser cut inlay. Called and talked to Ed about and he said he had no other reports of the problem. I emailed him pictures but have not heard back from him yet.
Been using GB for about 6 months and loved it and had no issues. But, in the last week or so I've been getting patches of a slight fogging/haziness somewhere between the blank and the top coat of GB causing me to have to use a skew or sand paper and take it back down to bare wood.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem? Only things I can think of:

1. It's a little colder in the shop than during the summer.
Don't think so. In my case the first blank was on a rosewood burl. The haze (fog) appeared with in seconds of spraying the accelerator after the thin. The shop temperature was mid 50's and humidity about 60%. The second time was a few days later on a piece of olive wood. The temperature was lower 70's and the humidity in the 90% range. Glueboost application was the same as before. The third time was a few days after that and the temp was low 60's with an electric heater on and humidity about 95%. The only difference this time was the fogging appeared after applying the thick Gluboost.
2. I'm using too much accelerator (but no more than before)
I use 2 short bursts as quickly as I can press and release the
nozzle on all woods I do.

3. Bad batch of GB?
4. This happens on blanks that have been glued with CA and Gorilla Glue and dried overnight.
All my blanks are glued with thick EZ Bond CA and this has happened only 3 times.

I'm not doing anything different than I have in the past I don't think but maybe I am. As I said the whole blank isn't hazy but there are patches of it.

Thanks in advance.
 

ramaroodle

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Thanks for the reply @Monty. Not glad to know it happened to someone else but misery loves company. Probably a coincidence but my first issue was with a burl too. (black walnut) At first I thought it might be because it was stabilized but then it happened on an olivewood blank I bought from Ed. Hard to tell which layer it's in but have seen it creep in after both just the blue and orange thicknesses.

@leehljp I also thought about the blank absorbing moisture but I stuck the last culprit in the toaster oven prior to turning.

I too had the issues under varying conditions in my garage shop. No heat, raining outside, not raining, propane shop heater on to heat the shop etc. Never checked humidity but I'm not willing to become a meteorologist just to finish a pen so that's kind of a moot point. :)

I would really like to figure this out. GB ain't cheap and the main reason I was attracted to it was because it could be done with 2 coats of each viscosity and the accelerator was supposed to not cause clouding. I don't really see a difference in the final finish vs my Stickfast CA regimen so it kind of defeats the purpose if I've got to keep redoing blanks. Clouding has never really been an issue with Stickfast. I've probably done 10-15 blanks with GB over the past 6 months without a problem until now. The only thing that has changed is the weather which I can't totally control in a garage shop. Let me know if you get a response from Ed.

The product is still unbeatable for filling in small voids etc. It might get relegated to that role.
 
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TonyL

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Just had the same issue on Saturday. Just on one small spot. I re finished it. The second time it was fine. Same temp and humidity. I thought maybe that I buffed through it - perhaps I did. Shop temp is about 68, but dry. This was on the resin part of a hybrid blank.

I like the product, but I am just as satisfied with the Mercury flex. When I run out of one, I will decide what to "stick" with LOL.
 

ramaroodle

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Just an update...

Made 3 pens last night since I got my Mercury Flex yesterday. Made one each with Stick Fast, Glu Boost & Mercury.

Also switched to craft foam vs paper towels. Biggest difference there was that I used about half the amount I would normally use with paper towels so, yes, there was lots of CA absorbed by the paper towels that never got onto the blank. Using the same amount that I would put on a paper towel was too much to leave a smooth coating and a waste of product.

I also changed up my thickness order. I switched from starting with medium and finishing with thin and went to using 3-4 coats of thin and finishing with 2-3 coats of medium. Why, I don't know. I read about people using 12-15 coats of product. That's just overkill IMO.

Honestly, the finished products all look and feel the same when it's all said and done so it's really a matter of which technique gives me the best outcome with the least amount of work and flaws.
 
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ed4copies

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Just got off the phone with GluBoost, after forwarding this thread.


Their theory is moisture interfering--high humidity or oily wood.


One surprise in the conversation, they believe wiping with alcohol or acetone CAN be a BAD idea. This is based on the premise that there can be a fair amount of water in the alcohol, which can interfere with the GluBoost..


Because it does not happen every time, it is unlikely to be a product problem.


So, the best advice I can give is try to avoid high humidity and be sure to apply the accelerator from a distance of at least 8", so you don't get droplets. If you encounter the whitening, stop for the day and wait for lower humidity.


Personally, (this is only MY theory), if I needed the pen done, I would run a heat gun over it a couple times to warm the wood and dissipate any residual moisture. Let the wood come back to "warm to the touch, NOT hot". As I say, this is NOT from GluBoost


Please keep me informed on developments. We have sold several hundred bottles of the product, so this is a low occurrence event, but let's try to pinpoint the cause!


Thanks for your help!!
Ed
 

JohnU

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Wood blanks.

I’m thinking I’m using too much accelerator. 1st can was empty before glue was half gone.

I use one short burst from start to finish of length of blank. I’ve seen videos where people are using it on blanks like spray paint. I timed myself on a self cast pasta alumilite Sierra blank the other night and was able to turn the blank, apply 2 coats of sealer and 5 layers of finish using the GluBoost product and then micro Mesh and finish in less than 6 minutes. Now I don’t usually go that quick but it shows you don’t need a lot of accelerator on each layer to get good results. I can’t see the difference between that one or any of the others I’ve done. I haven’t had any spot issues.
 

ramaroodle

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Wood blanks.

I’m thinking I’m using too much accelerator. 1st can was empty before glue was half gone.

I use one short burst from start to finish of length of blank. I’ve seen videos where people are using it on blanks like spray paint. I timed myself on a self cast pasta alumilite Sierra blank the other night and was able to turn the blank, apply 2 coats of sealer and 5 layers of finish using the GluBoost product and then micro Mesh and finish in less than 6 minutes. Now I don’t usually go that quick but it shows you don’t need a lot of accelerator on each layer to get good results. I can’t see the difference between that one or any of the others I’ve done. I haven’t had any spot issues.

So, when you say "sealer" you mean the blue medium thickness GB bottle, then 5 coats of the orange thin product?

Just got off the phone with GluBoost, after forwarding this thread.

Their theory is moisture interfering--high humidity or oily wood.

One surprise in the conversation, they believe wiping with alcohol or acetone CAN be a BAD idea. This is based on the premise that there can be a fair amount of water in the alcohol, which can interfere with the GluBoost..

Thanks for your help!!
Ed

Hmmm... I may have wiped it down with DNA after sanding. Not sure, but sometimes I do that. Will use compressed air from now on and make sure to not do that. Ya never know. Thanks.
 
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Sylvanite

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Foggy/hazy spots is the classic symptom of "blush", which is caused by moisture under the finish. It is most often the result of insufficiently dry wood, a warm finish on cold wood, humidity changes, or a wetted wood surface.

Ethyl alcohol is hydrophilic - i.e. it likes water of at least 5%. Alcohol will absorb water out of the air if necessary to achieve that concentration (which is why liquor can never be more than 190 proof). Wiping a blank with DNA before finishing can leave water behind and lead to blush. Wet sanding wood is another common cause.

I do not wipe wood with DNA. I use acetone, or acetone-based CA accelerator instead. That tends to strip the wood surface of moisture (and oil) instead. I've never had an issue with blush after using acetone as a pre-finish wipe.

I hope that helps,
Eric
 

ramaroodle

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Foggy/hazy spots is the classic symptom of "blush", which is caused by moisture under the finish. It is most often the result of insufficiently dry wood, a warm finish on cold wood, humidity changes, or a wetted wood surface.

Ethyl alcohol is hydrophilic - i.e. it likes water of at least 5%. Alcohol will absorb water out of the air if necessary to achieve that concentration (which is why liquor can never be more than 190 proof). Wiping a blank with DNA before finishing can leave water behind and lead to blush. Wet sanding wood is another common cause.

I do not wipe wood with DNA. I use acetone, or acetone-based CA accelerator instead. That tends to strip the wood surface of moisture (and oil) instead. I've never had an issue with blush after using acetone as a pre-finish wipe.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Great input. Thanks. Interesting that GB says NOT to use acetone to wipe. You would think that DNA and acetone would not have the same effect on the blank. Blowing warm air over the blank can't hurt but just adds one more step but may be worth it. I'm almost afraid to use acetone thinking that a few tiny molecules might still be hiding in some porosity of the wood and would react with the first layer of CA wiped on. I'm thinking it's compressed air for me.
 

JohnU

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Yes, the blue labeled “fill n finish” then the orange labeled “top coat”. I put 2-3 blue depending on the surface smoothness, then lightly steel wool it with grade #OOOO, to smooth it out if there are ridges, then Dry rag wipe the debris off and go to the orange labeled top coat. After 5 coats with a quick spray between them I lightly steel wool again and go to micro mesh (wet sanding). If you hold the accelerator bottle too close it doesn’t hit the entire blank. I like to let the mist hit it from about 8”out. I apply my glue and accelerator while the lathe is running and only stop to wipe the steel wool and change to delrin bushings between turning and finishing.
 

ramaroodle

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Yes, the blue labeled “fill n finish” then the orange labeled “top coat”. I put 2-3 blue depending on the surface smoothness, then lightly steel wool it with grade #OOOO, to smooth it out if there are ridges, then Dry rag wipe the debris off and go to the orange labeled top coat. After 5 coats with a quick spray between them I lightly steel wool again and go to micro mesh (wet sanding). If you hold the accelerator bottle too close it doesn’t hit the entire blank. I like to let the mist hit it from about 8”out. I apply my glue and accelerator while the lathe is running and only stop to wipe the steel wool and change to delrin bushings between turning and finishing.

I like that process. Just curious....Have you ever used plain old stickfast accelerator on GB? I have and didn't notice any adverse reaction. It's just so much cheaper, although it's interesting that the accelerators from Mercury, GB and another that I have all have a similar scent and an oilier feel to them than does the stickfast which just smells like acetone. Is the Stickfast de-bonder the same as the accelerator or just acetone?? I bought the debonder in a moment of weakness a year ago and have never used it.
 
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JohnU

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I haven’t tried that. I was using EZbond CA and accelerator prior but I had issues with the ca getting brittle and cracking as a finish. It looked great for a while but I noticed cracks in the finish on older pens that were in the cast not being used. I’ve never been able to complete a CA finish as fast as I can with GluBoost. I always say try as much as you can and find what works for you. Gluboost works for me. The price is a bit higher but I can get a lot more finished in a short time and everyone says “time is money”. Lol
 

ramaroodle

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Just got off the phone with GluBoost, after forwarding this thread.


Their theory is moisture interfering--high humidity or oily wood.


One surprise in the conversation, they believe wiping with alcohol or acetone CAN be a BAD idea. This is based on the premise that there can be a fair amount of water in the alcohol, which can interfere with the GluBoost..


Because it does not happen every time, it is unlikely to be a product problem.


So, the best advice I can give is try to avoid high humidity and be sure to apply the accelerator from a distance of at least 8", so you don't get droplets. If you encounter the whitening, stop for the day and wait for lower humidity.


Personally, (this is only MY theory), if I needed the pen done, I would run a heat gun over it a couple times to warm the wood and dissipate any residual moisture. Let the wood come back to "warm to the touch, NOT hot". As I say, this is NOT from GluBoost


Please keep me informed on developments. We have sold several hundred bottles of the product, so this is a low occurrence event, but let's try to pinpoint the cause!


Thanks for your help!!
Ed

Ed,
Have made 4 pens since your post. No wipe down in addition to sticking the blanks in the toaster oven for a little warming. No hazing. After I get done the ones I need to complete for Xmas I'll try it without the oven.

Thanks for contacting them for us.
 

JohnU

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Good to hear! Glad it’s working out for you and glad to hear I’m not the only one still working on Christmas pens. :)
 

TonyL

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Honestly, the finished products all look and feel the same when it's all said
and done so it's really a matter of which technique gives me the best outcome
with the least amount of work and flaws.

This is been my personal experience too (i.e. technique).
 

George883

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I’ve been working on a blank for several days and can’t get it to turn out. It’s oak that I dyed red. You can see raw blank I used as a prop. The GluBoost won’t adhere to to the dye. I let the dye dry for over 24 hours, no wet sanding, used the accelerator (even more than two short bursts) and etc. It’s been sanded to raw wood about 3 times now. Haven't had any issues with GluBoost prior to this but I've only used it on about 15 pens now. Any suggestions Thanks
fullsizeoutput_b7a.jpeg
 

ramaroodle

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So....when you say it won't adhere to the dye what do you mean? It just wipes off or stays tacky? What is the dye made of?
 

MyDadsPens

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I have this problem with almost 40% of all pens I have done including regular CA, stickfast and most recently Glu Boost. I call it ghosting. I have had it show up during sanding, after buffing and on pens after a few weeks, a few months and I just had it show up on a pen after 2 years. Its the reason I decided to try glu boost and now that it happened with glu boost will probably switch back to lacquer.

I work outside on a wood deck and as such encounter a great variation in temp, wind, and humidity. I probably should have been keeping notes on these variables but I didn't. I did feel that high humidity was a problem BUT in honesty it shouldn't be - CA actually cures with humidity, in fact there is a guy on youtube that uses steam as his accelerator

the variables I have kept track of:
woods that ghost on me the most - purpleheart, rosewoods, coffeewood, dyed maples (probably because of the dye), cocobolo (probably the oil)
wet sanding seems to exacerbate ghosting
Accelerator does NOT seem to be culprit (I have had this on pens that I didn't use accelerator on)

I was going to try a regime of spraying all blanks with shellac before applying CA, but its hard to find unwaxed shellac in my area (and I never remember to order it) but someday I will try this

I remember a guy on here suggesting it could be a bent mandrel that causes low spots, and then applying CA high speed means you get an air trap under the CA - very interesting - BUT in my case it's not every pen and I use mandrel savers - but I might try between centers some day
 

MyDadsPens

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George - I have done at least 30 dyed pens ---and many of them will NOT accept a CA finish. In many cases the CA seems to wipe off the dye. I have even allowed the dye to dry for months before finishing and still failed. Most of the time I finish dyed pens with lacquer. One of these days I am going to try sealing the dye with shellac and then putting CA over the shellac, but I haven't tried it yet
 

ramaroodle

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George - I have done at least 30 dyed pens ---and many of them will NOT accept a CA finish. In many cases the CA seems to wipe off the dye. I have even allowed the dye to dry for months before finishing and still failed. Most of the time I finish dyed pens with lacquer. One of these days I am going to try sealing the dye with shellac and then putting CA over the shellac, but I haven't tried it yet
I just realized that I started this thread 3 years ago and don't even remember having the stated issue. I haven't had any issues with it since then. It may sound silly but I suggest you just don't use that (or type of) stain. The other thing you can do is call Glu-Boost. They are responsive to customer questions. Ask them what it is about the stain you're using that might cause that problem.
 

MyDadsPens

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I was just piggy backing on George's statement about dyed blanks -- I have not tried dye with glu boost yet - but for traditional CA I can confirm for George (and anyone else trying dye) that I have had CA completely wipe off dye even after 6 months the dye drying. I am guessing it some kind of chemical reaction
 

MyDadsPens

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as for the original thread topic of hazing (ghosting or lifting) - this plagues me with traditional CA But I can now confirm that it happened to me with Glu Boost as well. I posted this image in another thread but just in case anyone searching in the future comes here -this is the spectacular lifting or hazing I got with Glu Boost on Purple heart - oddly enough top blank completed at the same time with same procedures is perfect

2021090295225411.jpg
 

leehljp

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Ron,
THAT looks like sand-through. "Lifting" occurs on the ends when the bushings are broken off (it snaps) from the blank and the CA "lifts up" on the ends. "Lifting" or separation of the CA from the blank in the middle of the pen will only happen when the CA is thick, used on an oily blank and in all probability it is dropped.

What gives away sand-through other than the haze is the flat/matt color.

CA sand-through is usually lighter than the surrounding CA'ed blank, or haze as some people call it. The lighter color occurs with light colored woods, medium tan or beige, and darker and colored woods such as red and purple colored woods.

Do you use paper towel to apply the glue boost or CA? This is a common issue with paper towel (PT) applications. PT users often count the number of applications but the reality is that it doesn't mean much at all. I can apply 50 coats with PT and not get the thickness of two applications with a foam plastic applicator; and then I can apply with PT a few thick coats too. The point is: most people are totally unaware of how much thickness or how little thickness is built up on a pen per coat. Paper towel application can build up far less than new users would possibly believe. And then sand through occurs and it doesn't seem possible after 10 applications of CA/Glue Boost with PT, but it happens, repeatedly.

USE Calipers on a freshly turned or sanded blank; measure it. Then measure it after a few applications of CA to find out how much is being built up. Sanding takes a good bit off.

Another thing is that if it is on one side, that probably indicates the use of a mandrel, but not always. There are several problems that can occur with a mandrel that causes only one side to be sanded through. It "can" occur with TBC but it is much less likely to just occur on one side.
 
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