Insurance Rant

[markgum]

so.... a few weeks ago; my psycho American Eskimo dog (all 15 lbs of him) ran after the neighbor when he rolled his garbage can out. The dog does not like anything with wheels since we got him 4 years ago. This time he managed to break the link on his collar and nipped my neighbor. the neighbor said it was o.k. just a scratch. I told him to go to the doctor and get it taken care of. I called my home owner's insurance company (who will remain nameless at this time) just in case. I saw my neighbor a few days later and he said everything was fine and not to worry about it. That it was just a minor scratch. Today I received a notice from my insurance company saying they were not going to renew my policy. After I calmed down, :angry: I called my agent and asked him what the heck. He said any claims with a dog, would cause the policy to be canceled. It is just to much of a liability. I said, you have got to be kidding; I have been insured with you all for over 25 years and this is the first claim against my homeowners policy. He said, It might be overturned if I brought in a note from the vet saying the dog was put down and that I would NOT own a dog again. But there was no guarantee that would work either. :frown::frown: I said well, guess, it is time to find a new insurance company. One claim opened and no collection on it; and they drop me. My agent and I discussed it for half an hour and he finally said, he would call and see what he could do. He said after all you have been a customer longer than I have been an agent; that should be worth something.
so now I wait, meanwhile, I'm going to start shopping for a new insurance company. When I hear the final out come I will let people know who the stupid company is. Makes me worry about this country. Everyone is so sue happy, insurance is afraid of losing money because of a little crazed dog. Guess, I shouldn't be a good citizen and report things just in case. ARGH.....
thanks for listening...

 

[stevers]

They seem to act like they don't "want" to hear it. At work they tell us to report all incidents, even "close calls". Then the threaten to fire you for these little things. It's like they are trying to get us to lie and cover the stuff up. Some days I just cant make since of it.

 

[Mikey]

I learned long ago not to open a claim unless you know there will be a claim. Should have waited to see what the neighbor said.

I agree though that it's unethical for the insursance company to drop you like that. I can't believe that it would be legal to drop someone over a non claim.

 

[DocStram]

Does CA have a State Insurance Commissioner? I'd call their consumer helpline.

Also, regardless of the outcome, I'd like to hear the name of the company .... if you're comfortable with releasing it.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

How can it be a claim if the neighbor does not file? It sounds to me like you notified the insurance company of a potential claim.

 

[RonSchmitt]

Had basically the same problem, my son's dog bit his friend, all involved ( kids father who witnessed the bite, the police, and the animal control officer) said it was provoked. Insurance company dropped me immediately.
Had to get new insurance co at higher rate due to a "vicious" dog. ( 9 month old Lab puppy)

 

[Rifleman1776]

How can it be a claim if the neighbor does not file? It sounds to me like you notified the insurance company of a potential claim.

Just a phone call inquiring about the possibility of the company having to pay is a 'claim'. When I managed my mother's estate, her house was in a bad hailstorm. Several houses in her neighborhood had damage. I called the insurance company, they inspected and found no damage. However, it still went on the record as a 'claim'. Fortunately, in Arkansas, the law does not permit an insurance company from dropping a client due to acts of God.
Dog bites, OTOH, are different. There are too many pit bull owners out there who do not control their animals and are costing the insurance companies tons of money. Insurance is a shared risk. When a claim is paid, all policy holders with that company are, in effect, helping to pay that money.
It is unlikely you have a legitimate complaint. Your dog bit someone. That's a fact. The fact that the chain broke is not relevant. By law (in most states) that is only proof you did not control your animal. It is probably possible for you to even have criminal charges brought against you.
You are in a tough situation. Your dog. Your responsibility.
That's cold but true. I'm sorry for your plight. And, to double your unfortunate situation, when/if (and that could be a big 'if' ) you find another insurance company to take you, the rates are going to be adjusted up, way up. Owning that dog is now a very expensive proposition.
Also, assuming you have a mortgage, if you do not get insurance quickly, the bank holding that mortgage has every right to begin foreclosure.
Hope I didn't ruin your day. The dog did it.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Just a phone call inquiring about the possibility of the company having to pay is a 'claim'.

Ah! Thanks. That is good information to know.

 

[gketell]

I bought my kids minibikes for Christmas. I called the insurance company to ask about homeowners coverage in case they were stolen. They said "no, we don't cover them and since they will be ridden by under-age, unlicensed riders we will be dropping your liability insurance".

My mother in law was driving our van a couple of weeks ago. She was in the road making a legal u-turn. Neighbor comes out of his driveway nose first while looking behind him at the house he was fixing up and hits her. Admits this to all involved. But since he has the same insurance company as us it is in their benefit to rule it a "no fault" because then we both pay our deductibles so they, as MY insurance company, are fighting against me.

I HATE insurance companies with a passion.

 

[markgum]

Frank, you are right. It is my responsiblity. Yes, the chain breaking is again shame on me. But,,, IMHO, my dog will be on the other side of the rainbow for me; not my home, so if I they foreclose the home, o'well, one less bill I have to pay..

 

[Mikey]

I bought my kids minibikes for Christmas. I called the insurance company to ask about homeowners coverage in case they were stolen. They said "no, we don't cover them and since they will be ridden by under-age, unlicensed riders we will be dropping your liability insurance".

My mother in law was driving our van a couple of weeks ago. She was in the road making a legal u-turn. Neighbor comes out of his driveway nose first while looking behind him at the house he was fixing up and hits her. Admits this to all involved. But since he has the same insurance company as us it is in their benefit to rule it a "no fault" because then we both pay our deductibles so they, as MY insurance company, are fighting against me.

I HATE insurance companies with a passion.

I would fight them if I had to on that one. If the police rule someone at fault, they would have to go by that. Maybe if they could prove to a court that is not the case. I suspect they would change the determination if you pushed as their defense would cost a lot more than the $250 or $500 that your deductable is.

 

[sdemars]

First, I have worked as a Catastrophe Adjuster for over 3 years on several hurricanes here on the Gulf Coast. So I speak from knowledge gained working for the "insurance industry" during it's worst showing.

Let me tell you, NEVER CALL YOUR AGENT ! ! ! ! except when you KNOW there has been a loss where you KNOW you will be liable.

There is no such thing as "INDEPENDENT" agents . . . regardless of the contractual agreement between the agent and the insurer, they think, act & lookout for the insurance company . . . period . .

Do not be lulled into thinking your agent is your friend. . . The insurance company does not give discounts for being a "good" responsible person . . . They are bean counters, gamblers, opportunist & most of all the most profitable industry in the world . . .

I'm sure I'll hear from a hundred people who will tell me how their agent "helped" them by pressuring the adjuster into giving them a new roof . . . There is not enough space here to explain that game . . .

Remember, once you tell your agent about something may become a claim, "IT IS NOW A CLAIM.

Perfect example . . . My wife was driving to & from work . . . 30 miles round trip through Baton Rouge everyday . . . of course our auto policy took that into account & charged accordingly . . . Good news, she now works at home . . . she picks up the phone and proudly calls to inform our agent of 15 years about the change to see what kind of discount she can expect . . .Reply from agent, "They will now surcharge you 8% because you are now what they consider a greater risk, because you now have a greater chance of an accident since you don't navigate this mess everyday now . .

Our insurance is BIG BLUE ! ! ! ! ! I formally worked for BIG RED . . . .

 

[MarkHix]

Mark: In my work life, I supervise adjsuters for a large insurance carrier. I don't work in homeowners so I can't really comment on why they decided to drop you. I'm sure that there is some language in the policy that refers to increased risk or something to that effect. Your policy will say somewhere that you are required to report all incidents to the carrier. It will also say that they are obligated to investigate all claims against it. Very few insurance companies will answer a hypothetical question. Most will handle it as a claim because of the assumed risk.

Greg: There are things you can do. There is no such thing as a no-fault accident. Someone is always negligent. It is impossible to have one without negligence. The adjuster may decide it as a 50/50 loss or some other combination. Call your carrier. Be sure that there were seperate adjusters examining the liability aspect; one from your perspective and one for the other policy. Ask them to explain how they determined liability. I assume the loss happend in CA since she was in your van. I don't handle CA but most states have the same or similar right of way laws. The short version: the party on the street has the right of way. You can't leave a private drive without yielding to the person driving on the roadway.

I hate to disagree with Mikey but just because the police say you are at fault, it not always the case. While I have the greatest respect for police officers, but they are just like you and me, they make mistakes too. Sometimes, they don't even agree with each other on the same report. They get confused as to who did what, who was in which car, where the cars were. The worst: listed a guy as dead. He was surprised when I told him.

 

[Mikey]

Not saying the police can't be wrong, but the burden would fall on the company to prove they were wrong. Putting someone down as dead would probably make the police amend the report. The company may have a harder time showing someone was at fault making a legal turn on a street and colliding with someone who was pulling out of their drive.

 

[MarkHix]

To me, that accident would just about be a no brainer. The car pulling from the drive is at fault. I was simply suggesting a coversation with the adjuster to find out what was done and why.

 

[dalemcginnis]

I agree with sdemars, NEVER call your insurance company. Several years ago I was sitting in ny house when someone ran their car into my fence (corner lot). They knocked down about 20 foot of chain link. Made the mistake of calling my agent just to inquire about repairing the fence. The next year I was informed they had decide not to renew my coverage. That was the first and last call to my agent. Now I go to the cheapest company and have the highest deductable possible. Unless my house burns down or someone sues me I'm never calling again and soon as I pay off the mortgage the insurance copmpany can take a hike. I'll take my chances.

 

[Jarheaded]

We had a Vet sign off that my Pit Bulls(sweet dogs and friendly) are just Terrier mixes for my insurance company or they were going to drop me. My agent came by and was playing with my so called killer dogs. I think my other 2 dogs would be quicker to bite someone, but they didn't care about them because of the breed. Insurance is just a big rip off, if you need them, they don't want to know or they drop you, but if you never use them, you don't get anything back in return.

 

[monkeynutz]

Be careful when you mention "the burden of proof" in the same breath as an insurance company. The fact is, they don't have to prove anything. They are in the numbers business, and they can drop you for a runny nose. They are the final authority on who does or does not represent a risk to them. They don't want to mess with anybody who has even a reasonable possibility of costing them money. You might seek help from your state's Insurance Commissioner, but the negotiations and deals that go on between those in that office and the insurance companies are way above us simple peons out here, who are only paying everybody's salaries. Calling your insurer with practically any concern, either real or perceived, will most likely cause a file (case number) to be opened, and that automatically brings you into the scrutiny of the "grim reaper", who is even nastier-tempered these days than usual. His job is to protect the profitability of the insurance company and realize the expectations of its stockholders. The rest of us are just in the way.

 

[rb765]

Insurance

I bought a house last year and was looking of insurance. The first question that I was asked was if I owned a dog. The second was what breed. I guess my 16 year old chihuahua/terrier mix was not too great a risk, because they covered me anyways. Then they told me that if I got a pit, rottweiler, or other aggressive breed, they would drop me in a heartbeat.

 

[leehljp]

SDemars wrote:
"Let me tell you, NEVER CALL YOUR AGENT ! ! ! ! except when you KNOW there has been a loss where you KNOW you will be liable."

This thread along with this kind of advice has me wondering - If I were to go into my agent's place of business and ask for a "review" of my current policy, any "recommendations", and then ask any questions as to what this that or the other wording meant - would this "asking" be grounds for them for increasing in premiums or dropping?

When is simply reviewing or asking questions to your agent - NOT construed as a claim, once you already HAVE a policy and agent?

My auto insurance is tied in with my homeowner's policy. Does questioning or asking about "homeowners coverage adjustments" during "auto change discussions" constitute a claim?

You guys are making me paranoid. (And, I am asking this as it concerns Stateside insurance, not Japans)

 

[sdemars]

I can say this . . . I was told by an top insurance underwriter while on storm once the following . . . .

Always, every sentence when speaking to your agent, adjuster or even little "Suzie" that answers the phone for any insurance office . . .

Start every statement with " Theoretically Speaking", " Should An Insured" , "If This Should Happen", " I Was Asking For A Friend That may Become A Customer Of Yours" . .

Yes I know it sounds corny, but what is even cornier is when you ask a question of one of these people who you "want" to think of as a friend, runs to the computer and screws you . . . .

Ask an agent you "really know" how much of a commission he gets for increasing you as risk/profit . . . I have been told with some companies that noting a "PIT BULL" on an insureds property can yield as much as 60% to 75% for the agent of the added rate increase based on the "imagined" new risk . . .

You have to realize my experience with insurance companies is working as a Catastrophe Adjuster . . . I'm sure many on here are career insurance pros . . . But then they can't really say to much . . . . Remember an insurance policy is the only product that you can buy that list "ONLY" what you DO NOT GET FOR YOU MONEY . . . Read one from cover to cover . . . If the word "exclude / exclusion" were removed from our language insurance companies would cease to exist . . .

 

[gketell]

I've spoken with our adjuster several times. They've even said that they have determined it was the other persons fault and that he should have been able to see and avoid anything in the street that he was pulling into.

HOWEVER, they have to wait for HIS adjuster to admit fault and accept responsibility before we get our deductible waived. What a crock. MY insurance KNOWS and AGREES that it was not our fault but they won't treat us right unless they can get their money from the other insured. Which is only doubly ludicrous because it is the same insurance company for both.

 

[ehickey]

Very few things get my hackles up more than insurance. I think it is one of the biggest scams EVER. After hearing about all of your stories...now I am just angry. I've had some friends that have had similar experiences. I've never had anything as bad happen to me, but having two young children, I have had my fair share of trying to understand the complications of filing medical claims, who pays, how much...
There goes my holiday...