Insurance is Criminal !!!

[skiprat]

Ok, I'm gonna rant !!!

The beginning of each year is when all my insurance policies come up for renewal. Car insurance is compulsory in the UK.

We recently got our eldest son his first car. Bargain bucket first car for £800, insurance.........almost £2000 !!!! I know some youngsters are bad drivers but they really do get ripped off in the first few years.

We also have a 'family' 7 seat minibus that we rarely use as I have a company car and my wife has a little sporty thing.
Renewal policy comes in from ABC Ins Co for the bus....
'Dear Mr Jackson.....we are pleased to offer a new discounted rate of £450 for this year....yada yada.'

I think hmmm, we should be able to get that a bit cheaper and give them a call. Answer from ABC Ins Co: Sorry, that's the best we can do Mr Jackson.

Ok, I go online to one of these compare insurance places and find a cool deal !!!! Only £170 per year !!! Same cover, same named drivers, same annual milages, everything!!!

You wanna know the best part??? It was with the same insurance company I was already with...!!!


I had a lot of fun calling the insurance company and saying that I didn't want to renew my existing policy as I had found a better deal...with them!!


Ok, rant over and I did get a little bit of revenge anyway:biggrin:

 

[trapper]

yep totally agree welcome to rip off uk!!!!! in November last year to insure my van £689 this month after some necessary repairs £1360 why??

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I would like to cancel my insurance.
Why Mr. Jackson?
I found a better deal.
With whom?
With the same company, just a different branch.

 

[PenMan1]

It's not just insurance companies, Skip (although I think they are the worst abusers).

Companies are SO FOCUSED on bumping their "new customers" numbers that in order to "give the new customer everything" they have to screw the old customers that have stood by them.

I see this as the fault of EVERY CONSUMER that didn't do exactly what you just did. As long as we allow businesses to do to us what they tried to do to you, THIS PRACTICE WILL CONTINUE.

When consumers stand together and say " Big (insert bank, brokerage firm, insurance. Company,etc, here) since you can offer NEW customers XYZ, we want an additional 10 percent for our loyalty".

This practice has always been bad, but IMHO, it has reached a fevered pitch in the last few years.

End of Rant within another rant.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I'm paying less now for full coverage on a very new truck than I paid on a 16 year old sedan with basic coverage when I was in my early 20's.
A friend of mine at the same time was trying to buy a Mercury Cougar RX7 ( All the bells and whistles with a 5 speed manual transmission and a supercharged monster V8) the car was only a few years old and he just got his license . The monthly insurance payments were going to be more than the car payment.

 

[Robert111]

I think we can generalize to the entire financial services industry. And the big banks are worse than the insurance companies, I think.

 

[Smitty37]

yep

My guess would be that UK has compulsory auto insurance. I am also guessing that you make the "responsible" driver/car pay for all the repairs just as we do here. Compulsory insurance is a license to steal for the insurance companies (and in this country the trial lawyers). For most of us it would be much cheaper if we said everybody insures themself and when an accident occurs we're all responsible for our own costs.

That different companies (or even the same company) have a whole platter of different rates for the same coverage isn't unusual either. I don't anymore but for years I changed insurance companies about as often as I changed my socks because "new" customers got a price break for switching.

My first car cost me $1000 and at age 23 even though I had never had an accident I went into the "assigned risk pool" and paid $276 for 6 months minimum liability and $100 deductable collision coverage - 6 months later I got married, bought a car for $2800 but I left the assigned risk pool and got three times as much liability coverage and $50 deductable collision for $36 for 6 months.

Today I drive a pickup truck. It cost 8 times what I paid for one in 1969, I drive about 1/3 of the mileage I used to drive, and my insurance is about 12 times what I paid in 1969.

 

[skiprat]

Yep, many companies are relying on a basic human error........laziness and our mis-belief that if we are loyal, then they will be too.

I've read that the average household in the UK ( probably any country ) could save at least £2000 each year just by shopping around for just a few hours on one evening.

These days of online everything, makes it really worth while making that effort.

The new(ish) wonderful thing that you can do these days is buy your water from the electricity company, your house gas from the water company and the electricity from the gas company.
The do try to make it awkward, but you can save a bundle by being a little persistant.

 

[Robert111]

My guess would be that UK has compulsory auto insurance. I am also guessing that you make the "responsible" driver/car pay for all the repairs just as we do here. Compulsory insurance is a license to steal for the insurance companies (and in this country the trial lawyers). For most of us it would be much cheaper if we said everybody insures themself and when an accident occurs we're all responsible for our own costs.

That different companies (or even the same company) have a whole platter of different rates for the same coverage isn't unusual either. I don't anymore but for years I changed insurance companies about as often as I changed my socks because "new" customers got a price break for switching.

My first car cost me $1000 and at age 23 even though I had never had an accident I went into the "assigned risk pool" and paid $276 for 6 months minimum liability and $100 deductable collision coverage - 6 months later I got married, bought a car for $2800 but I left the assigned risk pool and got three times as much liability coverage and $50 deductable collision for $36 for 6 months.

Today I drive a pickup truck. It cost 8 times what I paid for one in 1969, I drive about 1/3 of the mileage I used to drive, and my insurance is about 12 times what I paid in 1969.

I don't think I'd be in favor of that. You mean I'd be dependent on the other driver to pay my losses???? Property and personal injuries???

 

[wizard]

Yep, many companies are relying on a basic human error........laziness and our mis-belief that if we are loyal, then they will be too.

I've read that the average household in the UK ( probably any country ) could save at least £2000 each year just by shopping around for just a few hours on one evening.

These days of online everything, makes it really worth while making that effort.

The new(ish) wonderful thing that you can do these days is buy your water from the electricity company, your house gas from the water company and the electricity from the gas company.
The do try to make it awkward, but you can save a bundle by being a little persistant.

Skip, Insurance companies would have a consumer believe that they act as protective parents. But...in reality..an insurance company is just another institution....and people need to remember that Institutions Have No Souls...

 

[The Penguin]

My guess would be that UK has compulsory auto insurance. I am also guessing that you make the "responsible" driver/car pay for all the repairs just as we do here. Compulsory insurance is a license to steal for the insurance companies (and in this country the trial lawyers). For most of us it would be much cheaper if we said everybody insures themself and when an accident occurs we're all responsible for our own costs.

That different companies (or even the same company) have a whole platter of different rates for the same coverage isn't unusual either. I don't anymore but for years I changed insurance companies about as often as I changed my socks because "new" customers got a price break for switching.

My first car cost me $1000 and at age 23 even though I had never had an accident I went into the "assigned risk pool" and paid $276 for 6 months minimum liability and $100 deductable collision coverage - 6 months later I got married, bought a car for $2800 but I left the assigned risk pool and got three times as much liability coverage and $50 deductable collision for $36 for 6 months.

Today I drive a pickup truck. It cost 8 times what I paid for one in 1969, I drive about 1/3 of the mileage I used to drive, and my insurance is about 12 times what I paid in 1969.

I don't think I'd be in favor of that. You mean I'd be dependent on the other driver to pay my losses???? Property and personal injuries???

no, I think he's talking about "no fault insurance" - Florida has insurance like that.

the was I understand - you insure your vehicle for all losses.

if you hit another vehicle, no matter who is at fault, the repairs are covered by your insurance policy. No worrying about the other driver being "uninsured/underinsured"

 

[ctubbs]

Yep, many companies are relying on a basic human error........laziness and our mis-belief that if we are loyal, then they will be too.

I've read that the average household in the UK ( probably any country ) could save at least £2000 each year just by shopping around for just a few hours on one evening.

These days of online everything, makes it really worth while making that effort.

The new(ish) wonderful thing that you can do these days is buy your water from the electricity company, your house gas from the water company and the electricity from the gas company.
The do try to make it awkward, but you can save a bundle by being a little persistant.

Skip, Insurance companies would have a consumer believe that they act as protective parents. But...in reality..an insurance company is just another institution....and people need to remember that Institutions Have No Souls...

or conscience.

 

[Rick P]

Skiprat

You have to have insurance on your car here in the states too. If you think car insurance is bad try health! My wife works for a hospital, in fact she is the manager of a department, we had to cancel my tonsillectomy because we can't afford our part of the cost! Here total cost is between $8-10K (It's much lower in the lower 48) MY portion would be around $3-4K and we are considered "fully insured". Never mind the 10's of thousands we have paid into the system over the 15 years my wife has worked as a RN, the last 10 with the same hospital!

 

[shadetree_1]

We spent 20 years with Framers and even with no accidents and no tickets, every year the rate went up and up and up, But farmers would insure new customers for less than us, 30% less in fact and the old loyal customers just footed the bill! So as mentioned earlier in the thread we spent an evening shopping around, and got the same insurance with a smaller deductable with State Farm for $800 a year less !!!!!! And it only to a few minutes.

 

[Smitty37]

No

My guess would be that UK has compulsory auto insurance. I am also guessing that you make the "responsible" driver/car pay for all the repairs just as we do here. Compulsory insurance is a license to steal for the insurance companies (and in this country the trial lawyers). For most of us it would be much cheaper if we said everybody insures themself and when an accident occurs we're all responsible for our own costs.

That different companies (or even the same company) have a whole platter of different rates for the same coverage isn't unusual either. I don't anymore but for years I changed insurance companies about as often as I changed my socks because "new" customers got a price break for switching.

My first car cost me $1000 and at age 23 even though I had never had an accident I went into the "assigned risk pool" and paid $276 for 6 months minimum liability and $100 deductable collision coverage - 6 months later I got married, bought a car for $2800 but I left the assigned risk pool and got three times as much liability coverage and $50 deductable collision for $36 for 6 months.

Today I drive a pickup truck. It cost 8 times what I paid for one in 1969, I drive about 1/3 of the mileage I used to drive, and my insurance is about 12 times what I paid in 1969.

I don't think I'd be in favor of that. You mean I'd be dependent on the other driver to pay my losses???? Property and personal injuries???

No, you would look to your own insurance to cover that just like you do if your house burns down.

 

[Smitty37]

My thought

My guess would be that UK has compulsory auto insurance. I am also guessing that you make the "responsible" driver/car pay for all the repairs just as we do here. Compulsory insurance is a license to steal for the insurance companies (and in this country the trial lawyers). For most of us it would be much cheaper if we said everybody insures themself and when an accident occurs we're all responsible for our own costs.

That different companies (or even the same company) have a whole platter of different rates for the same coverage isn't unusual either. I don't anymore but for years I changed insurance companies about as often as I changed my socks because "new" customers got a price break for switching.

My first car cost me $1000 and at age 23 even though I had never had an accident I went into the "assigned risk pool" and paid $276 for 6 months minimum liability and $100 deductable collision coverage - 6 months later I got married, bought a car for $2800 but I left the assigned risk pool and got three times as much liability coverage and $50 deductable collision for $36 for 6 months.

Today I drive a pickup truck. It cost 8 times what I paid for one in 1969, I drive about 1/3 of the mileage I used to drive, and my insurance is about 12 times what I paid in 1969.

I don't think I'd be in favor of that. You mean I'd be dependent on the other driver to pay my losses???? Property and personal injuries???

no, I think he's talking about "no fault insurance" - Florida has insurance like that.

the was I understand - you insure your vehicle for all losses.

if you hit another vehicle, no matter who is at fault, the repairs are covered by your insurance policy. No worrying about the other driver being "uninsured/underinsured"

My thought is this - I would insure myself if I am involved in an accident my medical cost, repairs to my vehicle and the medical cost of anyone riding in my vehicle would be paid by my insurance. Everyone else would (or could) have the same coverage. There would be no determination of fault unless there were severe injuries with permanent repercusions...law suits and awards for damages would be severely restricted. It would save literally hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars.

 

[The Penguin]

I understand what you're saying, and I believe it is called "no fault insurance." we were discussing it on another forum a few months ago.

sounds like a good idea to me. Not sure what it's like in DE, but in TX we have a lot of uninsured Hispanics driving around. I've had numerous friends been hit by them and stuck with the repair bill after finding out (days after the accident) that the other party had no insurance and drove away.

 

[Smitty37]

Health insurance

Skiprat

You have to have insurance on your car here in the states too. If you think car insurance is bad try health! My wife works for a hospital, in fact she is the manager of a department, we had to cancel my tonsillectomy because we can't afford our part of the cost! Here total cost is between $8-10K (It's much lower in the lower 48) MY portion would be around $3-4K and we are considered "fully insured". Never mind the 10's of thousands we have paid into the system over the 15 years my wife has worked as a RN, the last 10 with the same hospital!

Health insurance was invented in the 1940s when wage controls were in effect because of WWII. The idea was that a company could not give their employees raises so if they wanted to offer them something they had to do it with benefits that didn't count as wages.

When originally started health insurance was a boon to both the employer and employee because the employer got to deduct it as a business expense and the employee didn't pay any tax on either the premium (paid by the employer) or on any benefit they received.

For about 15 years or so even sick pay was not counted as income so an employee who worked for a company like the one I worked for actually made more money when they were off sick than when they were working. That changed during the Eisenhower administration or early in the Kennedy years. When I first started my civilian employment 100 per cent of healt costs (hospitals, doctors, related travel, etc) were deductable from income taxes. I believe that changed in the 60s, probably during the Johnson administration.

From when I went to work until the late 1970's my employer increased health benefits in one way or another almost every year. After Medicare had been in effect for around 10 years or so that changed -- medicare increased the demand for health care by a couple of orders of magnitude and has been driving the costs since. In addition, in the late 1960s it started to become popular to file malpractice suits which had been almost unheard of before then, and doctors/hospitals and about any other health practioner had to start carrying malpractice insurance and that is another major driver of health costs. Costs are also driven up by the government and the insurance companies with the mountain of paperwork they have created to prevent fraud....it probably cost 10 times what the fraud would cost.

There has also been two other booms that have impacted the cost of health insurance - there are a lot more old folks now (as a percentage of the total population) and old folks just have more ailments than young folks. And, there are multitudes more treatments available today than anyone ever imagined - but they are not cheap.

I hesitate to mention the last big driver because it is emotional to some folks so I will preface this by saying I do not say we should stop doing this. That is that over 50% of an average persons lifetime medical costs occur in the last 6 months of their life. 27% of Medicare goes to pay for treatment of folks in the last 6 months of their life. This is a huge impact and it is going to get worse because every year there are more older folks to take care of.

Is it any wonder health insurances costs a ton of money?

 

[ttpenman]

OK, my rant about car insurance. Say you're a single person with 3 cars. So far I haven't figured out a way to drive more than one at a time but I have to have liability on all 3. Why shouldn't I have one liability coverage on me no matter which of my cars I am driving? Bugs the heck out of me, always has.

I also have a PU truck I use very little. One year my insurance company called me to check on the mileage figure I had sent them. They couldn't believe that I only have driven so few miles in a year. The guy wanted some proof of my mileage and asked if I maybe had a receipt for an oil change or something. I told him after that few miles I hadn't changed the oil!! Took several minutes for him talking to a supervisor before he would let it go. I told him I was the perfect customer -- I drove so little I didn't put my vehicle in harms way and paid my premiums on time. He just couldn't get it!!

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

 

[moke]

The building next to my business is an insurance broker. He and I started about the same time 35 years ago...I had my insurance with him. Every time I seem to need coverage, it was not covered. Another agency stopped in and asked to give me a bid, so I said great and it was almost $500 cheaper and I knew the guy and believed him to be honest. I went for it. This summer we had a hail storm and the company called ME to ask if I had any damage, I said I didn't know so they sent an adjuster to look at my roof and they had it replaced and it cost me really very little. I thought for sure when they sent an adjuster that they would say no you have no damage....I was shocked!!!! I will never leave those people....

 

[PenPal]

Skip,

Once more you add to my day with your experiences and sharing. About a year ago I bought a 30 yr old monster sized Mercedes in beaut Nick it cost me 28 Au Dollars a month at a time (no penalty for paying monthly) this reasonable rate cause one major firm in Aussie specialises in old, vintage, sports cars that would normally be prohibited costing. It is a branch of where we insure our house and car comprehensively called in part over 50,s.

Our compulsory third party is no choice and used as a cash cow by the legal fraternity to sue the socks off everyone they can because there was no upper limit until recently (lawyers still crying foul). Our premiums are quite high. As an old fella I get the benifit of no Rego fee a saving of 400 dollars per year.

Smitty I wont comment several times but this is the lucky country last year on a visit a thousand miles from home I was hospitalised nil cost with Double Pneumonia in the next two months Wilma my wife had a Gyno Specialist Operation followed by a major Gyno op by a Professor Specialist who came from Sydney two hundred miles away with her team to remove all but the kitchen sink for Major Cancer and Sarcoma plus, op over recovery commenced severe Chemo commences tomorrow for four months followed by Radiotherapy all at no cost whatever. Our GP sees us on a regular basis no cost, refers us to various Specialists small cost up front some reimbursed. I have not paid tax legitimately for 15 yrs of retirement.

We get our Electricity, Water, Gas from a combined ACT Authority and bundle Our Computer
free local calls ADSL2 plus flat rate around Australia calls 1 dollar one hour international reasonable rates.

Skippy again thank you I feel fortunate having six children not to be facing all the joys and demands financial over again with those huge loadings on young people that are based on actual statistics of cost factors related to accident rates and wish your family and the Alaskan family a better this year from the sharks that circle us.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[skiprat]

Peter my old friend, when I grow up I want to talk just like you!!
I sometimes have to read your posts twice, but when I have, I always think they are as close to poetry as you can get without the words rhyming. :biggrin:
Hope you and Wilma are both well.
Best regards

 

[TellicoTurning]

I'm paying less now for full coverage on a very new truck than I paid on a 16 year old sedan with basic coverage when I was in my early 20's.
A friend of mine at the same time was trying to buy a Mercury Cougar RX7 ( All the bells and whistles with a 5 speed manual transmission and a supercharged monster V8) the car was only a few years old and he just got his license . The monthly insurance payments were going to be more than the car payment.

Yes, and even where you live can make a big difference... in 1966 when I lived in Los Angeles, I bought a 1965 corvette with a 365 horse/Holly afb carb, 3/4 quarter race cam... it idled like sorry can't use the word... but would run like the striped ape of legend.... in Los Angeles I had it insured for everything short of ship wreck... mid year I moved to San Francisco and cut insurance back to basic minimum California requirements... my policy still went up -- because SF was the second or third highest insurance location in the nation... along with Kansas City, New York and Chicago...

 

[Haynie]

I hate insurance. Plain and simple.

 

[Jgrden]

I hate insurance. It ought to be outlawed. I would advise any new employee to set aside their own insurance premium instead of paying it to a company. By the time they are old enough to need it, they can afford any medical treatment they need. Surgery can be paid for at one-quarter the cost at high scale medical centers in other parts of the world.
The insurance commissioners in each state are ineffective and cannot control insurance companies. I could go on, but not sure it is good for my health.

 

[Smitty37]

I was referring only to cost drivers

Skip,

Once more you add to my day with your experiences and sharing. About a year ago I bought a 30 yr old monster sized Mercedes in beaut Nick it cost me 28 Au Dollars a month at a time (no penalty for paying monthly) this reasonable rate cause one major firm in Aussie specialises in old, vintage, sports cars that would normally be prohibited costing. It is a branch of where we insure our house and car comprehensively called in part over 50,s.

Our compulsory third party is no choice and used as a cash cow by the legal fraternity to sue the socks off everyone they can because there was no upper limit until recently (lawyers still crying foul). Our premiums are quite high. As an old fella I get the benifit of no Rego fee a saving of 400 dollars per year.

Smitty I wont comment several times but this is the lucky country last year on a visit a thousand miles from home I was hospitalised nil cost with Double Pneumonia in the next two months Wilma my wife had a Gyno Specialist Operation followed by a major Gyno op by a Professor Specialist who came from Sydney two hundred miles away with her team to remove all but the kitchen sink for Major Cancer and Sarcoma plus, op over recovery commenced severe Chemo commences tomorrow for four months followed by Radiotherapy all at no cost whatever. Our GP sees us on a regular basis no cost, refers us to various Specialists small cost up front some reimbursed. I have not paid tax legitimately for 15 yrs of retirement.

We get our Electricity, Water, Gas from a combined ACT Authority and bundle Our Computer
free local calls ADSL2 plus flat rate around Australia calls 1 dollar one hour international reasonable rates.

Skippy again thank you I feel fortunate having six children not to be facing all the joys and demands financial over again with those huge loadings on young people that are based on actual statistics of cost factors related to accident rates and wish your family and the Alaskan family a better this year from the sharks that circle us.

Kind regards Peter.

I was referring only to medical cost drivers in the USA. Not quality of care or how other nations deal with it. I personally believe the quality of care available in the USA is second to none. My son has been waging a 10 year battle with cancer that the initial prognosis was that he had 3 years of life left at the outside. It hasn't been free but his care has been great.

 

[tim self]

My last insurance policy we'd had for 10-11 yrs and I was very happy with. I recently bought a 5th wheel travel trailer so I called to add it. I was told "we don't insure trailers in OK." No problem, would just change insurance companies. Called a local company, added the trailer and upgraded my original coverage and saved about $400 a yr. When I called to cancel I informed them of this, I was not happy finding out I had been getting screwed for who knows how many yrs.

I was then ask if there was anything they could do to keep my business. Remember, they don't insure RV's in OK. Response from them was "Oh yeah", but we still want your business. Some folks don't have a clue.