Inside or Outside?

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Inkedsphynx

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Massillon, Oh, USA.
Hello all! I've just recently become interested in learning to turn, and I've been doing a lot of reading, and a little bit of buying in preperation. I'll be picking up a lathe and the rest of the supplies I'll need to get started at the end of this month.

I have a problem though. I have no place to work! Right now I'm in a house (I don't own it, am renting). The garage is unfortunately not a useable space due to a number of factors.

My choices for workspace basically come down to working out of our laundry/utility room, or building myself a small workshop in the back yard.

My concerns with inside are as follows:

1. It's right next to the living room, so it'll probably be too noisy.
2. The cat litter-box is in there, so I won't be able to keep the door closed for long periods of time. There's really no other suitable place for the litter-box.
3. I'm concerned for the health ramifications of turning indoors, especially since we do laundry in that room as well.
4. I'm a bit worried about the possible changing conditions in the room in regards to humidity and temperature. Between the heater, water heater, washer, and dryer (all in that room), I'd imagine that it'd be changing quite a bit, which would affect the wood I'd have in that room.

As for building a small shop, I'd had in mind to do something between 10'x10' and 15'x15'. The concerns here are:

1. It'll take me some money to do so (less money for tools and whatnot), and I won't be able to run dedicated electrical, so I'll be stringing an extension cord from the single external outlet to power it. This means I can probably only run a light and 1 tool at a time.
2. I'll have to insulate it for the winter (Ohio). I could always do this closer to winter to save on money, since it's getting into summer now.
3. The changing humidity concerns me, as I can't really afford to go expensive with machinery to regulate the interior conditions.
4. I'd have to devise a way to keep it at least somewhat heated in the winter, both when I'm out there, and when I'm not.
5. I don't intend to live in this house forever. I'll be here at least another 11 months, probably longer than that. I don't really mind leaving the workshop behind and having put my money into something I don't own though, as long as it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

Pros for each:

Inside:
1. There are 2 windows along the only wall in the utility room where I'd have space to put a workbench, so I could vent outside/get natural light/etc if need be.
2. I could work year-round due to it being inside and heated.
3. Low cost - I'd just have to build myself a workbench.
4. The refrigerator is close *laugh*

Outside:
1. I wouldn't have to deal with breaks to let the cats come and go.
2. I wouldn't have to stop because someone wanted to watch TV (if noise is a factor as I suspect it would be).
3. I'd have much more space to work with.
3a. I do other woodworking as well, so if I went towards the upper range of my size ideas, I'd probably have room for my table saw, planer, etc etc as well (I currently haul tools outside onto the concrete slab out the back door every time I want to use them.)
4. I'd get the fun of building the shop myself.
5. I could install a cot so when I spend too much on a load of kits and blanks, I don't have to sleep on the couch.


I'm undecided. Both have pros and cons, and I have a girlfriend to deal with as well, who has told me she thinks inside should be my last resort. When it all comes down to it, I just want a space where I can try my hand at turning.

So, help me choose! Or if you've got an alternate suggestion, please fire away. Thanks in advance!
 
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Wow, you really want to do some turning! I'm excited about your desire to find a solution! Have you already done some turning and have you become addicted? The reason I ask is if you haven't really started, I would go ahead and wait on both options until you have tinkered about some and tried your hand at turning. Perhaps some sunny days spent on the concrete slab outside the house with your tools would give you an indication if you really want to invest so much in finding a dedicated space.
Personally, getting it our of the house would be your best option. Never had much luck convincing my wife that all of the dust wouldn't go to the four corners of my house if I have my stuff inside. It seems that noise would maybe be the least of your worries. A dust collection system would be your biggest need indoors but is cost prohibitive.
An outdoor shed that is relocatable might be a good option. If you know you won't be in the house for a long period of time, you could recoup your investment if you could tear it down and relocate it. As far as heating and cooling and electricity...a small space heater would heat a 10x10 shed sufficiently in the winter. It might not be 75 degrees, but definitely warm enough to wear a flannel and keep some gloves off your hands. As far as electricity goes, 2 heavy duty, industrial extension cords and a couple of breaker equipped power strips would do the trick. You would actually never be running more than 3 things at a time anyway. (Example: light, heater, lathe) I think if you actually elevated the cords from one corner of your house to one corner of the shed and painted them black, it would look fairly normal.
These are all just my opinions. If you are going to relocate, a small shed that you can tear down and rebuild wouold be the way I would go.
Have fun![;)]
 
Thanks for the input!

I haven't turned yet, though I think I'm going to like it. I've been building furniture and doing other various carpentry tasks for years now. Turning is something I always had an interest in, just never really got a chance to try my hand at. I figure for a fairly minimal investment I can get the basics to start out and see if I like it. If I don't, that's fine, since you can never have too many tools [:D]

As far as building a shop outside goes, I wouldn't even worry myself with making it relocatable. As I said, I don't mind leaving it behind if I move. A 10x10 shop would cost me about 500$ to put up (not including insulation), so it's not like it'd be prohibitively expensive. Whatever I do I likely won't pour a concrete footing or floor anyway, probably just build it sitting on top of a small wall of cinderblocks, with plywood floors (possibly put some flooring material over it if need be, but unlikely).
 
2. The cat litter-box is in there, so I won't be able to keep the door closed for long periods of time. There's really no other suitable place for the litter-box.
IF INSIDE
OK I'll take this one. There really is not an option. You have to put the litter box somewhere else. When I first started turning, the only litter box was in my workroom. My cats would stand at the top of the stairs and cryyyyyyyyy for me to stop making noise so they could go potty. My male took it ok but the female started finding her own places to go[:(] I am sure you could imagine what I mean. The vet said it was brought on by stress!! It is 5 years later and we now have 4 litter boxes and she is not broken of the bad habit[V] Because it is caused by stress we cannot yell at her becaues that makes it worse. I won't go any further. All I can say is Find Another Place to put the box!!!!!!!!!![:0][:0][:0][:0] Alice
 
Sure, I can do that.

The garage is a pretty small space, maybe 6ft by 10ft. The floor is very uneven, it's got trench down the middle of it probably 8 inches deep, which causes the entire thing to roll. There's no insulation in the walls. The "car door" (which isn't even big enough to fit a car into) takes up half of the front wall which extends out in an L shape from the rest of the space (the only moderately useable space). The gaps on the door are large enough to see light through, so I'd say the insulation out there is pretty bad, and it'd take a lot of work on it to make it retain any heat at all. There is no heat from the house out there either, since it doesn't even connect into the house (you walk out a little door, onto the porch, and into the house from the front door). All in all, it's basically useless for anything but storage.

Having moved here from California, due to some irritating circumstances, we rented this house from a co-worker, and had little choice in the matter. This was what we could get at the time. While the inside of the house is pretty nice, the siding leaves something to be desired, and, as stated, the garage is a mess.

I think building something in the back yard would be cheaper, less of a headache, more efficient, and less time consuming than it would be to try to fix up the garage. If it came down to it, I could make it work, but it'd be my absolute last resort, even past working inside if I had to.
 
Go for the outside and build yourself a room that is functional. Bezure to allow yourself several outlets and do not depend on an extension cord to supply enough apms to get the job done. They can tend to become great sources of fires.

Whatever you do, don't let the cats find the shavings on the floor as it makes "purr-fect" cat liter. Don't ask me how I know, just trust me on this one. [;)]
 
My thoughts on the electrical were to wire the building so that I plug an extension cord (or two if I can figure out how to run another from inside the house logistically) into the external of the building to power it. I say this because I don't want to do any electrical work that draws power off the house permanently, because I believe that'd require me to obtain a building permit and have the building inspected. I believe doing it so nothing is attached to the house, I can treat it like a shed and therefor don't need an inspection or a building permit. I might be wrong though, will have to look up the local codes.
 
Kris,
another option is to rent an office trailer like they use at construction sights. If you will not be at the house very long it may be more economical than building. I bought a used one (10x24) for 1200 last winter. They usually come wired with lights, heat and AC. There are a variety of sizes available. It cost me a couple hundred to run power (100amps)out to it from the house.
 
If the backyard is not totaly secluded (blocked off or fenced off) you could bring in a temporary building that is built on a skid. Here in Utah they sell 'em at the Home Depot. Another option would be an enclosed trailer or a retired school bus. My first workbench was the window sill of my bedroom when I was 3 years old!

We at least can agree on one thing....
 
I hadn't thought of the office trailer, but that'd cost me more than it would to build myself a small shop. Same for the home depot pre-built sheds. I already looked at that, and I can build one of the same size for much much cheaper. It'd be nice to save the labor, but it wouldn't be worth it for the difference in the amount of money I'd end up spending.

Thanks for the additional ideas though!
 
First of all what does the landlord/ Leese say ??? Are they ok with this ? Another is zoning laws. Some it is not a issue if its a storage shed but, a work shop it another story..

Is he willing to spend money on the garage to make repairs ? Might work out a deal that he buys material and you do the labor. Same for a shed, is he willing to kick anything in for the cost if you leave it there when you move ??

Another option is a gutted travel trailer. My friend picked one up from an insurance co for next to nothing. The interior had water damage and he removed most of the interior and just had to replace a section of floor. Lights, electric and heat all in place... But, can run into zoning issues ???
 
The landlord doesn't care if I put it up. If anything I'll just be increasing the value of the house when I leave and it stays behind. They won't put any money into it though, but that's ok, I can live with that.

Even if they were willing to put money into the garage, there's no way I want to do the labor myself. It would involve pouring a new concrete floor, and while I used to do concrete demo and pouring for a living years ago, there's no way I want to take on a garage, especially with the condition of the current floor.

I don't think zoning will be an issue, since it's basically just a shed. Another reason I don't want to permanently power it. And as for the office trailer, I could look into it, but I think the landowner would veto that, since it wouldn't really be keeping with the residential theme of the neighborhood. I think they'd tell me that I couldn't do that. Just a hunch though.
 
Kris
What an interesting problem!. I think you are correct in not needing inspection if you don't have it fastened to the house. That is true here in Wadsworth, and probably also in Massilon, but you need to check. I have an 8x10 garden shed, just needed to site it properly with respect to property lines. My workshop is in the garage, but I have a concrete floor and an overhead gas furnace. For you, it sounds like the backyard shed would be a good way to go. The company that erected mine had me put down a leveled 4" thick gravel pad, then the shed was constructed on pressure treated 4x4's. I would also like to put some electricity out there to recharge the lawnmower battery. Have considered overhead (it is only about 6 ft from the garage wall) or buried. Let me know what you decide.

Welcome to the world of turning. Ohio can be interesting in the winter, especially after California ( We visit our sons in LA to get away from the snow and sleet).
Ron
 
I've got a question for you Docron, did you drop the PT 4x4s straight onto the gravel underlayment?

As for weather, I spent over half my life in the midwest, so I know all about the winters :) I'm actually looking forward to it!
 
I may have missed something, how large is the utility room? Is there any way you can seperate the boiler from the work area? build a wall? you could always put the litter box in with the boiler and washer and make some kind of pet door. To do some turning, you really do not need a lot of space. You will get dust all over, so some kind of wall important. Since money is an issue (don't I know it) Why don't you buy the lathe first, do a little turning outside and by the fall, you can decide what to do. I sort of wish I could do some turning outside. Do the math with your funds before you decide to do anything.
Good Luck
 
Well, the layout of the utility room makes it a real PITA to do anything with. Imagine a rectangle. You're facing the southern wall, which is one of the two long walls. The door is in front of you. You walk in, and from the door, to the other wall, is maybe 6-8 feet. On your left is the heater and water heater both taking up almost all the real estate to the left side, since they aren't right up against the wall. Directly to the right inside the door is the washer, followed by a sink (catbox is under the sink), and the dryer on the other side of the sink. What is left is a 4 foot column of open space from the door to the opposite wall, where 2 windows are. So, I could section out maybe a 4' by 2' space for a lathe and maybe a drill press.
 
Originally posted by Inkedsphynx
<br />.....On your left is the heater and water heater.....dryer.....
Click to expand...

I would be concerned about making a lot of wood chips and dust in a small enclosed area with the above appliances, especially if they are gas fired.

I have read about folks renting a small storage room at a storage facility and using it as a temporary shop. Not quite so convenient as having a shop at the house; but maybe an alternative if you have such a facility close by. If you can find one for $19.95 per month, it might also be the most economical alternative??
 
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