I used epoxy I hope for the last time!

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keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
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Mount Wolf, PA
I had 16 musk ox blanks to glue. Painted the tubes and since musk ox can be somewhat translucent I painted the blanks too. I normally use thick CA for tubes but I do know there is a tendency to dissolve the paint. So I got some epoxy. I'm kind of behind the time clock on this order so I went to a couple of hardware stores - ace, lowes home depot and no epoxy over 5 min. So me and gorilla got friendly. What a mess - I got several blanks glue but ran out. 5 min batches are also a pain. Went to another hardware store and found something called PC-11 - 30 minute work time!!!! That is a worse mess. thick pasty type of epoxy. I stirred and stirred hoping it would get thinner but not so lucky. I finished all the blanks but I think I am going to go find a paint that CA won't dissolve and throw epoxy out the door!
I don't know how you epoxy guys do it. I am sure I am missing something but I'm not sure its worth trying to find out what!
My hats off to the epoxiers!
 
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crokett

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Dec 4, 2012
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Mebane, North Carolina
I prefer epoxy to CA for gluing tubes in. I've always used 5 minute, never had problems with it. CA you have to be quick else the tube can get stuck part way in. Of course a large batch of pens for me is 8 blanks, but I mix the epoxy, spread it on about 3/4 of the tube, insert the tube twisting as I do. I spread the buildup on the end of the blank on the part of the tube that I left bare, then the tube gets inserted the rest of the way. I can easily assemble 8 blanks before the epoxy gets too stiff. You need to keep it warm somehow if you have an unheated shop. Don't store it outside otherwise it is stiff and hard to mix, and after gluing the blanks you need to keep them warm. In the winter I bring blanks and tubes inside and let them sit for an hour or so to come up to temp then do glue ups and let them site for a few hours at least. I typically glue up and let everything sit overnight.
 

jjjaworski

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Feb 22, 2012
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Las Cruces, NM
I usually use the 5 minute epoxy from Harbor Freight because it is easy to get when I need it and have had no issues with it.
Sorry to hear your frustrations.
The only time I use a longer cure time epoxy is when i re-shaft golf clubs, but that is specific for that operation.
 

JohnU

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Jan 31, 2008
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Ottawa, Illinois
I like to use Loctite 5 min epoxy. I find it near paint isle at Menards and my local hardware store. It can be a little thick, especially this time of year. What I do is thin it down with warmth. I use a shop clamp light over it for a few minutes prior to use but you can also run hot water over the container prior to use. It mixes and works much easier when warmer and because it is in a plunger type dispenser its easy to get close to equal parts to mix. It also mixes well with paint if you want to color your epoxy before use. I prefer it over CA because it's more flexible and the bond won't break when turning. Paint is always an issue with me also. I've lost several clear cast blanks due to dissolved paint. Hope your project works out. Good luck
 

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Tim R

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Jan 20, 2020
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Lansing, Michigan
I use 15 minute epoxy (mid cure) from Bob Smith Industries. Available on Amazon. I make smaller batches and can get 8-10 blanks done per batch. I then let it set for a few hours, usually overnight.
 

keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
Messages
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Location
Mount Wolf, PA
I prefer epoxy to CA for gluing tubes in. I've always used 5 minute, never had problems with it. CA you have to be quick else the tube can get stuck part way in. Of course a large batch of pens for me is 8 blanks, but I mix the epoxy, spread it on about 3/4 of the tube, insert the tube twisting as I do. I spread the buildup on the end of the blank on the part of the tube that I left bare, then the tube gets inserted the rest of the way. I can easily assemble 8 blanks before the epoxy gets too stiff. You need to keep it warm somehow if you have an unheated shop. Don't store it outside otherwise it is stiff and hard to mix, and after gluing the blanks you need to keep them warm. In the winter I bring blanks and tubes inside and let them sit for an hour or so to come up to temp then do glue ups and let them site for a few hours at least. I typically glue up and let everything sit overnight.
Thanks for the detailed response! I can't imagine getting 8 blanks done with one batch of 5 min epoxy! Your process sounds much easier than mine!
 

keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
Messages
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Mount Wolf, PA
I usually use the 5 minute epoxy from Harbor Freight because it is easy to get when I need it and have had no issues with it.
Sorry to hear your frustrations.
The only time I use a longer cure time epoxy is when i re-shaft golf clubs, but that is specific for that operation.
Is Harbor freights clear? 5 Min goes by awfully quick. Enough time for one set but not sure I could do more
 

keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,493
Location
Mount Wolf, PA
I like to use Loctite 5 min epoxy. I find it near paint isle at Menards and my local hardware store. It can be a little thick, especially this time of year. What I do is thin it down with warmth. I use a shop clamp light over it for a few minutes prior to use but you can also run hot water over the container prior to use. It mixes and works much easier when warmer and because it is in a plunger type dispenser its easy to get close to equal parts to mix. It also mixes well with paint if you want to color your epoxy before use. I prefer it over CA because it's more flexible and the bond won't break when turning. Paint is always an issue with me also. I've lost several clear cast blanks due to dissolved paint. Hope your project works out. Good luck
Thanks John - all the loctite I saw was black - will check out other stores
 

keithbyrd

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I use 15 minute epoxy (mid cure) from Bob Smith Industries. Available on Amazon. I make smaller batches and can get 8-10 blanks done per batch. I then let it set for a few hours, usually overnight.
15 minutes sound reasonable for work time. can you color it?
 

jjjaworski

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Feb 22, 2012
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Las Cruces, NM
Is Harbor freights clear? 5 Min goes by awfully quick. Enough time for one set but not sure I could do more
It is clear and I have tinted it with the same paint I use on the inside of the drilled acrylic blanks.

If you have everything prepped and set out , it isn't much problem doing 3-4 sets of tubes. You just have to find a system/pace that works for you. I plug the ends of my brass tubes with foam backer rod . It is cheap and comes in various diameters. Lowes and Home Depot have it.
 

crokett

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Dec 4, 2012
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Mebane, North Carolina
Thanks for the detailed response! I can't imagine getting 8 blanks done with one batch of 5 min epoxy! Your process sounds much easier than mine!
Thats the way I've always done it. I use the small acid/flux brushes to mix and spread the epoxy on the tubes. To save time I pre-pair blanks and tubes before I mix the epoxy, if I am doing several pens. I have learned not to color epoxy. Maybe I'm not using the correct kind of paint but any additives seem to affect how well it cures.
 

jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
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NJ, USA.
Put me down as an exclusive epoxy guy. Yes it could be messy but have a system and the more you use the more you get a sysytem working. I am a System3 epoxy guy. I use the 24 hour version but have used their 15 min. clear also. Works well and never had a problem. Can rely on it for a good bond. Set down some wax paper or just old paper. I use a Popsicle stick to apply. Have all tubes plugged with playdough. Put inside blank and then on the tube. Swirl around and remove and do the same on other side. When tubed pushed in to where needs to be just use stick to remove excess and let dry. good to go the next day.
 

leehljp

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Feb 6, 2005
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Tunica, Mississippi,
I'm not sure if I understand the problem that you have. Is it the messy-ness (all over everything and hands? Or time/timing, curing too fast/slow? Or getting the epoxy inside tubes? or mixing problems? Or epoxy running out of the blanks/tubes?

• When I am doing one or two, I will use 5 minute epoxy; when doing 3 or more, I will use 15 minute to 30 minute epoxy.
•I plug the ends of the tubes with Plumber Putty. Others use dental wax or play dough. This keeps epoxy and CA out of the inside of the tubes.
• I use gloves MOST of the time when handling epoxy. Sure saves messy hands.
• on delicate or one of a kind blanks, I will use 15 or 30 minute epoxy and as Crockett said, use a brush of one kind to spread it on the tubes and also put on a layer inside the drilled blank, then insert. That said, I use Gorilla POLYURETHANE glue (expanding type) on most delicate blanks as it is the best at holding and giving structural strength evenly. USE GLOVES WITH POLY GLUE!
 

NGLJ

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Sep 15, 2021
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301
Location
Surrey BC, Canada
I use 5 min epoxy when I want to be sure that I get the tube central in the blank. I only do one at a time so no need to rush. I do sometimes use CA but you had better get it right the first time or.....I use a homemade tube insertion tool with HDPE.
 

howsitwork

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Jul 9, 2016
Messages
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Thirsk
I'd back u0p JT and Hanks experience for epoxy. Poly glue needs gloves for sure and wear an old shirt over your decent clothes ( just don't ask ).Oh and never scratch your nose !

I use 24 slow cure" Araldyte " brand. This needs 2 hours to set to firm and 24 to cure. You can warm it with a hair dryer ( ask SWMBO cos she has hair ) and it goes lovely and thin. Plug tube ends with wax or I use blu tac and revolve on insertion . I made a tapered insertion stick fro. HDPE cos noth8gn sticks to that stuff but used to use a pin punch before that. Actually I still do use a pin punch when I can't find the HDPE tool !

Only issue with the epoxy is it can allow the tube to slowly move if you stand it on end so rest the tubes sideways and leave in a warm place overnight.

With Poly glue I have found I can sometimes see the joint lines when laminating , OK you have to look really closely but I could see them ! Haven't tried colouring the epoxy yet but that might give intereting results. Nor as yet have a tried painting tubes so that's also on the to do list.

Haven't seen JT's system 3 over here but guess it's similar I know West systems make some variable setting epoxies maybe with trying them?
 

Tim R

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
37
Location
Lansing, Michigan
15 minutes sound reasonable for work time. can you color it?
I've never tried so I don't know. I found this Q & A on Amazon though:

"Question:
Has anyone tried mixing colored powder in with this epoxy (something like carpenters chalk-line powder)? If so, did it still cure?
Answer:
I've never mixed carpenters chalk, but I have mixed powder coat and it works fine.
By Mike Renfroe on September 5, 2017
I haven't, but wouldn't hesitate to. It would cure but don't over do it. Adding fillers to epoxies is a common occurance.
By Farmer Bob on August 29, 2017
I have used brownells powdered epoxy dye with very good results.
By bladesmith3 on January 29, 2020"
 

tomas

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Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
482
Location
Rio Rancho, NM
I had 16 musk ox blanks to glue. Painted the tubes and since musk ox can be somewhat translucent I painted the blanks too. I normally use thick CA for tubes but I do know there is a tendency to dissolve the paint. So I got some epoxy. I'm kind of behind the time clock on this order so I went to a couple of hardware stores - ace, lowes home depot and no epoxy over 5 min. So me and gorilla got friendly. What a mess - I got several blanks glue but ran out. 5 min batches are also a pain. Went to another hardware store and found something called PC-11 - 30 minute work time!!!! That is a worse mess. thick pasty type of epoxy. I stirred and stirred hoping it would get thinner but not so lucky. I finished all the blanks but I think I am going to go find a paint that CA won't dissolve and throw epoxy out the door!
I don't know how you epoxy guys do it. I am sure I am missing something but I'm not sure its worth trying to find out what!
My hats off to the epoxiers!
I just tried JB Weld Marine 5 minute epoxy. I used it on a quilted maple pen blank. The epoxy is bright white and I am interested in seeing how it looks with some acrylic/plastic blank I have.
 

jrista

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Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,222
Location
Colorado
Thanks for the detailed response! I can't imagine getting 8 blanks done with one batch of 5 min epoxy! Your process sounds much easier than mine!
I've been using the JB Weld 5 minute epoxy for a while now:


Its gotten thick in the cold, so I try to warm the bottles up with a lamp for a while, or just bring the bottles in so they don't stay out in the cold shop. Anyway...in the hottest part of summer, you might run into the time limit, but in my experience through most of the year, a 5 minute epoxy is workable plenty long enough to slip 8 tubes into 8 blanks.

I've been working batches of 5 pens at a time with Sierra style pens. I spend 30-40 seconds mixing, till its really good and mixed. Then roll my tubes in, twist them into each blank. I use the next tube to scrape off the excess and put that back in the pool of mixed epoxy, then use a q-tip or popsicle stick to push the tube out through the other side. Apply a couple dabs of epoxy there, twist it back in, scrape off the excess and wipe the inside of the tube clean with a q-tip. Once you get the pattern down, you can put a bunch of tubes in a bunch of blanks pretty quickly.

I find that this epoxy doesn't get runny. I have used it in the shop with it up in the high 80s, and it always seems to be pretty sticky stuff. There is always excess that comes off the tube when you twist it in. You always need to clean that up, with any epoxy, in my experience. Either the next tube, or a popsicle stick, will do the job. With a stick, I tend to split the excess in half down the middle, scrape it off to one side, swipe that on my wax paper next to the epoxy pool, then scrape off the other side. That tends to leave just a tiny bit of epoxy on the inside of the tube, which I clean up with a q-tip. You can also keep the epoxy on the stick, then push the tube out the other side of the blank, and just apply the excess there as well. Its good to do that, to make sure that both sides of the tube are well glued into the blank...otherwise, the first end of the tube you insert will often have little glue (it mostly gets rubbed off onto the inside of the hole in the blank), and you'll have a weak bond there. I usually use a glove on my right hand when gluing tubes...inevitably, a bit will get on your fingers. I tend to reuse the glove over and over until it starts to tear, though, to minimize the cost/waste there.

I generally leave them overnight for a solid harden, but I don't think you really need that long.
 
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TonyL

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Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
The only epoxy that I ever had a problem with and returned was the clear JB weld (never cured). I think I just got a bad batch or I messed up the equal parts thing (which is hard to do), but otherwise I like their product line and would try it again.

I just bought BSI 5 minute worktime and 1 hour cure. I can only glue two tubes within 3 minutes. I set a time for 3 minutes. If I don't apply it within 3 minutes, I mix another batch. I like the quick set and cure time even though it is not as strong as the longer cure time adhesives.

I have had very good results with the Mercury Adhesives epoxy (and CA).
 

keithbyrd

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Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,493
Location
Mount Wolf, PA
I'm not sure if I understand the problem that you have. Is it the messy-ness (all over everything and hands? Or time/timing, curing too fast/slow? Or getting the epoxy inside tubes? or mixing problems? Or epoxy running out of the blanks/tubes?

• When I am doing one or two, I will use 5 minute epoxy; when doing 3 or more, I will use 15 minute to 30 minute epoxy.
•I plug the ends of the tubes with Plumber Putty. Others use dental wax or play dough. This keeps epoxy and CA out of the inside of the tubes.
• I use gloves MOST of the time when handling epoxy. Sure saves messy hands.
• on delicate or one of a kind blanks, I will use 15 or 30 minute epoxy and as Crockett said, use a brush of one kind to spread it on the tubes and also put on a layer inside the drilled blank, then insert. That said, I use Gorilla POLYURETHANE glue (expanding type) on most delicate blanks as it is the best at holding and giving structural strength evenly. USE GLOVES WITH POLY GLUE!
Hank - this was really just my rant! I have never used epoxy and compared to CA it is a mess. I have had I think two tubes stick on me going in and a quick smack on the tube drove it all the way in and have never lost one that way! I was mostly complaining over the mess! Maybe I will get better with practice!
 
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