I have another question about materials

[Hippie3180]

When folks are making kitless/bespoke and they say they are turning "acrylic" what material are they actually referring to?

I know acrylic polishes differently than Alumilite, I think acrylic is perhaps thrown around loosely, what material is it actually?

 

[KenB259]

Oh boy.

 

[Hippie3180]

Oh boy.

Does this indicate a stupid question or?

I see acrylic refferred to as resin, what is it actually? If you know, please elaborate.

 

[Hippie3180]

Are those blanks formed under heat and pressure and extruded OR are they cast like other blanks?

 

[KenB259]

Does this indicate a stupid question or?

I see acrylic refferred to as resin, what is it actually? If you know, please elaborate.

No not at all , some are just very opinionated on this subject.

 

[d_bondi]

I'm glad I have a front row seat for this thread.

 

[Dieseldoc]

Does this indicate a stupid question or?

I see acrylic refferred to as resin, what is it actually? If you know, please elaborate.

Maybe this may help:

 

[Hippie3180]

I'm glad I have a front row seat for this thread.

Am I getting thrown to the wolves here, it's puzzling to me and a sincere question. When one sees a blank is "acrylic" among the listed pen blanks let's say at Exotic Blanks….what are they? If you search polyester resin, "acrylic" blanks come up.

 

[d_bondi]

Am I getting thrown to the wolves here, it's puzzling to me and a sincere question. When one sees a blank is "acrylic" among the listed pen blanks let's say at Exotic Blanks….what are they?

No, not at all, but as Ken noted, there are many opinions so it will likely be a "spirited" debate.
It could be very entertaining if everyone keeps their sense of humor.

 

[Todd in PA]

It's not your question, Hippie. It's that the answer is super complicated. And the answers are many many many. So it's opening a new thread that has been a giant funnel in the past.

I'm interested in the answers. I've read everything I can find, and there is an article or two in the IAP Resources. It helped, but didn't answer my questions. Several here have loads of information and chemistry backgrounds. Maybe someone will be prompted to create a new resource.

 

[Todd in PA]

Acrylic Revolution

Wide variety to choose from. Click on the image below to begin download of PDF. Author: Bill Daniels

www.penturners.org

 

[Todd in PA]

I wish there was a resource to identify acrylics based on smell. I'll throw something on the lathe and immediately think "this smells like that really chippy stuff, whatever that is".

 

[Hippie3180]

I wish there was a resource to identify acrylics based on smell. I'll throw something on the lathe and immediately think "this smells like that really chippy stuff, whatever that is".

Right.

In my mind true "acrylic" is something else apart from what the pen world calls "acrylic."
My husband says that what we are smelling is a styrene that is found in the catalyst.

I believe true "acrylic" formed by heat and pressure…extruded. However, I am not a chemist or anything.

 

[its_virgil]

Acrylic is a specific resin and NOT a generic term for any and all resins. Plexiglass is acrylic.
Real acrylic is not a resin thst can be cast without special equipment.
The resin blanks sold by individual casters are either urethane resins (Alumilite Clear or Clear Slow), one of the many epoxy resins or polyester resin.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[Hippie3180]

Acrylic is a specific resin and NOT a generic term for any and all resins. Plexiglass is acrylic.
Real acrylic is not a resin thst can be cast without special equipment.
The resin blanks sold by individual casters are either urethane resins (Alumilite Clear or Clear Slow), one of the many epoxy resins or polyester resin.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Thank you! This is what I was thinking.

 

[Todd in PA]

I wonder if the (mis)use of term "acrylic" comes from not wanting to make or sell "plastic" pens. Acrylic sounds a little nicer.

 

[egnald]

To answer your question,

Acrylic has become a genericized word. As in acrylic gets used to reference any plastic blank just as Kleenex is used to reference any facial tissue. There are loads of genericized trademarks and words - many of which we don't even realize. For example:

Aspirin - Bayer trademark for their acetylsalicylic acid.
Cellophane - DuPont trademark of regenerated cellulose.
Escalator - Trademark of Otis
Flip Phone - Trademark of Motorola cell phone
Styrofoam - Trademark of Dow Chemical (DuPont) - polystyrene foam
Super Glue - Super Glue Corporation - Cyanoacrylate

The list goes on and on.

I've been very close to one, but it is too obscure to mean much to most folks because it is related to a specific electronic component made using a proprietary technology. Vishay invented a high power, ultra-low resistance, surface mount resistor that we named WSL. (I think it originally stood for Wirewound Surface mount, Low value or some such thing). After about 15-20 years it became genericized in the industry and we started hearing our customers say they bought their WSL's from XYZ or WXY, competitors of Vishay. WSL had become a genericized reference to any Surface Mount High Power, Low Value Resistor regardless of the Vishay trademark or the technology used to make them. - We found it to be a little bit frustrating, but also a little bit flattering.

Dave

 

[showcaser]

Google acrylic acetate. Certainly fragrant stuff.

 

[jttheclockman]

I can not add anything because I do not do kitless pens. Somewhere in here there is a great page of information about the differences of acrylics and what most blanks are made of. You have to remember many people cast their own blanks too so the type resin they use can speak for that. Then there are those that use the old time Italian pen blanks and many people are not sure exactly what they were made from or ingredients because those secrets are not advertised. Then there are those that use materials like Casin so the list can be lengthy. I would look for the description but I am very lazy today. Good luck.

 

[JohnU]

Like stated above, I think "Acrylic" is often used as a generic term for plastic or resin blanks. Exotic blanks just had a zoom meeting last Thursday night about "Acrylic and other plastic, resin type blanks". Ed is very knowledgeable on the subject because he has imported and used many different types. One problem you will find is not all of these blanks are made the same, even when using similar raw materials. Some mix them with more catalyst or under warmer conditions to achieve their end goal results. The commercial made materials are in my opinion harder and more durable than most of the blanks we hobby or home shop blank makers put out. It's hard to compile a list or pin point specifics. Even most epoxies on the market used by blank makers is different from brand to brand. Over used many and found differences in hardness, yellowing, chippy, flexible, and so on. I think a lot of the "kitless" guys out there are using blanks made by commercial companies and blanks made from urethane resin like Alumilite Clear and Clear Slow. They have just proven themselves to work well for these projects.
I currently use Silmar 41, Alumilite Clear, Clear slow, and a couple different brands of epoxy, all for specific blanks. One is not better than the others. They all have their pro's and when making blanks, some just require a different resin to turn out.

 

[Drewby108]

I wait, it's not just built up layers of acrylic paint like I've used at those paint-and-drink classes?

 

[jrista]

When folks are making kitless/bespoke and they say they are turning "acrylic" what material are they actually referring to?

I know acrylic polishes differently than Alumilite, I think acrylic is perhaps thrown around loosely, what material is it actually?

I think most people use the term "acrylic" to instead mean "resin." I use the term resin myself. Acrylic is a resin. Not all resins are acrylic. There are many types of resin, from some of the original "plastics" like Bakelite or Galalith, to casein based resins, to more modern resins like acrylic, polyester, inlace/acrylester, and others. These are all resins, each with their own unique characteristics. There are real acrylic pen blanks. There are also polyester pen blanks, acrylester pen blanks, alumilite of course (a urethane), etc. There are some more exotic resins as well, such as Trustone which is resin-stabilized semi-precious stone (sometimes with precious metal veins).

Lots of resins, and not all resins are acrylic. Acrylics are definitely resins though.

 

[Jans husband]

I'm glad I have a front row seat for this thread.

I think I'll go to the back of the class so I can listen and not have to put my hand up!!!
Mike

 

[Jans husband]

I think most people use the term "acrylic" to instead mean "resin." I use the term resin myself. Acrylic is a resin. Not all resins are acrylic. There are many types of resin, from some of the original "plastics" like Bakelite or Galalith, to casein based resins, to more modern resins like acrylic, polyester, inlace/acrylester, and others. These are all resins, each with their own unique characteristics. There are real acrylic pen blanks. There are also polyester pen blanks, acrylester pen blanks, alumilite of course (a urethane), etc. There are some more exotic resins as well, such as Trustone which is resin-stabilized semi-precious stone (sometimes with precious metal veins).

Lots of resins, and not all resins are acrylic. Acrylics are definitely resins though.

That's cleared that up then----
But how do you tell the difference when you are buying acrylic blanks??

 

[Todd in PA]

Any ideas what this is? Someone from IAP sent it to me two years ago. I decided to use it for a diamond painting pen suce there was no tube.

 

[Sylvanite]

See https://www.penturners.org/threads/not-all-plastics-are-acrylic.148328/

 

[Woodchipper]

Acrylic seems to have evolved as a generic term as Kleenex has for a facial tissue.

 

[KenB259]

Any ideas what this is? Someone from IAP sent it to me two years ago. I decided to use it for a diamond painting pen suce there was no tube.



View attachment 371526

Obviously that is plastic.

 

[jttheclockman]

See https://www.penturners.org/threads/not-all-plastics-are-acrylic.148328/

Thank you!!! That was the thread I was thinking about. Eric is very knowledgeable in this area.

 

[JohnU]

That's cleared that up then----
But how do you tell the difference when you are buying acrylic blanks??

If the seller doesn't list what it is, you will have to compare it visually, looking at the blanks characters or material inside. Your experience turning it will eventually you recognize it easier. I know it doesn't help the purchase but you will also eventually recognize the difference between many of them by the feel and smell of it while turning. Some cut and sand differently. I notice it more between epoxy, some urethanes, and Polyester resin, but only because I turn it more. It's much like the differences in wood blanks.

 

[derekdd]

To answer your question,

Acrylic has become a genericized word. As in acrylic gets used to reference any plastic blank just as Kleenex is used to reference any facial tissue. There are loads of genericized trademarks and words - many of which we don't even realize. For example:

Aspirin - Bayer trademark for their acetylsalicylic acid.
Cellophane - DuPont trademark of regenerated cellulose.
Escalator - Trademark of Otis
Flip Phone - Trademark of Motorola cell phone
Styrofoam - Trademark of Dow Chemical (DuPont) - polystyrene foam
Super Glue - Super Glue Corporation - Cyanoacrylate

The list goes on and on.

I've been very close to one, but it is too obscure to mean much to most folks because it is related to a specific electronic component made using a proprietary technology. Vishay invented a high power, ultra-low resistance, surface mount resistor that we named WSL. (I think it originally stood for Wirewound Surface mount, Low value or some such thing). After about 15-20 years it became genericized in the industry and we started hearing our customers say they bought their WSL's from XYZ or WXY, competitors of Vishay. WSL had become a genericized reference to any Surface Mount High Power, Low Value Resistor regardless of the Vishay trademark or the technology used to make them. - We found it to be a little bit frustrating, but also a little bit flattering.

Dave

This is what I was thinking. Just like, "I want a Coke," has evolved to mean whatever soft drink someone wants.

I regularly refer to casted blanks as acrylic knowing my use is not accurate. Customers aren't going to understand or be interested in these explanations and are content with the term, acrylic.

 

[NJturner]

To answer your question,

Acrylic has become a genericized word. As in acrylic gets used to reference any plastic blank just as Kleenex is used to reference any facial tissue. There are loads of genericized trademarks and words - many of which we don't even realize. For example:

Aspirin - Bayer trademark for their acetylsalicylic acid.
Cellophane - DuPont trademark of regenerated cellulose.
Escalator - Trademark of Otis
Flip Phone - Trademark of Motorola cell phone
Styrofoam - Trademark of Dow Chemical (DuPont) - polystyrene foam
Super Glue - Super Glue Corporation - Cyanoacrylate

The list goes on and on.

I've been very close to one, but it is too obscure to mean much to most folks because it is related to a specific electronic component made using a proprietary technology. Vishay invented a high power, ultra-low resistance, surface mount resistor that we named WSL. (I think it originally stood for Wirewound Surface mount, Low value or some such thing). After about 15-20 years it became genericized in the industry and we started hearing our customers say they bought their WSL's from XYZ or WXY, competitors of Vishay. WSL had become a genericized reference to any Surface Mount High Power, Low Value Resistor regardless of the Vishay trademark or the technology used to make them. - We found it to be a little bit frustrating, but also a little bit flattering.

Dave

wow....that response hit an old cord - I spent years working for Xerox. Yes, I designed and fixed paper copier machines. I did the same for Xerox branded, trademarked and patented machines. What I did not do was make " Xerox's " when I went to the local copier machine.

We seem to now follow the path of least resistance (or thinking) when describing anything, so much so that I am constantly trying to figure out what the last 3 or 4 letter thing tossed at me (no words, just letters like LMAO) really means. Is this what my parents felt like when I was a teenager?

Kevin

 

[jrista]

That's cleared that up then----
But how do you tell the difference when you are buying acrylic blanks??

It should say. When I buy, it is either acrylic, poly (polyester), inlace, or alumilite. The type is always labeled, at least it has been in my experience (or, I'm purposely searching for a particular type online.) Each type tends to have a price range as well. Alumilite blanks are often much more expensive, $11-16 or sometimes more, and often 7/8" square. Inlace can be cheaper, $2-3 a blank, sometimes they are more expensive. Acrylic and poly are usually around $5. At least, that's in my experience.

Other types of materials are also usually specified. For example, ebonite, and usually the type of ebonite at that (SEM vs. NYH vs. Japanese etc.) Each type has different traits...ability to take a shine, fade resistance. I guess, if you are searching a place like eBay, you might not have the specificity, so you should be wary. I usually buy from places that specify pretty clearly what you are buying, so its certainly possible to know before you buy.

 

[Hippie3180]

To answer your question,

Acrylic has become a genericized word. As in acrylic gets used to reference any plastic blank just as Kleenex is used to reference any facial tissue. There are loads of genericized trademarks and words - many of which we don't even realize. For example:

Aspirin - Bayer trademark for their acetylsalicylic acid.
Cellophane - DuPont trademark of regenerated cellulose.
Escalator - Trademark of Otis
Flip Phone - Trademark of Motorola cell phone
Styrofoam - Trademark of Dow Chemical (DuPont) - polystyrene foam
Super Glue - Super Glue Corporation - Cyanoacrylate

The list goes on and on.

I've been very close to one, but it is too obscure to mean much to most folks because it is related to a specific electronic component made using a proprietary technology. Vishay invented a high power, ultra-low resistance, surface mount resistor that we named WSL. (I think it originally stood for Wirewound Surface mount, Low value or some such thing). After about 15-20 years it became genericized in the industry and we started hearing our customers say they bought their WSL's from XYZ or WXY, competitors of Vishay. WSL had become a genericized reference to any Surface Mount High Power, Low Value Resistor regardless of the Vishay trademark or the technology used to make them. - We found it to be a little bit frustrating, but also a little bit flattering.

Dave

This is pretty much what I thought a "generic" term for a variety of plastics, but not really accurate.

 

[RunnerVince]

Acrylic = not wood