How important is it to have dust collection system ?

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magpens

magpens

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I've been making pens for 10+ years .... wood, acrylic, and hybrid blanks.
I use a fairly cheap face mask with filters but I do not have a dust collection system for the shop.
I probably turn about 5 pens a week, for a total of about 2500 pens over 10+ yrs.
At that level of activity, I don't see the need for a dust collection system.

What do you think ? . Please let me know what you'd recommend, if anything.
 
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Hey Mal, I've been woodworking for close to 45+ years now. When I first started I didn't wear any kind of mask, just breathed the saw dust as I went. Now, I suffer with chronic sinus issues, have more snot than a rabid dog and have to use a nose spray just to sleep at night. I keep a box of tissue in my shop just to blow my nose. Might be gross to talk about snot and blowing your nose, but it's a reality for me every day...and I mean everyday. No relief from it no matter where I go. I'm also prone to severe sinus infections and spend a lot of time sneezing. So, if you don't think you need one, you might want to consider the alternatives. I currently use the Trend Airpro respirator and it works great, but there's still particles floating around my shop. I'm moving in a few months and will be getting a new system to use. I'm looking at one of the Jet systems but I've also seen reviews on this site recently that have suggested the Harbor Freight system. Good luck but keep your health in mind when turning wood.
 
@wolf creek knives
Thanks, Tom. . ( I am not grossed out at all !! . :) )
Are you quite sure that your sinus issues are due to breathing wood dust ? . I have no idea about diagnosis for such a condition.
Is the Trend Airpro something you wear ? . If so, I assume battery operated. . How often do you change the filters ?
 
Need to break it down. Dust collection comes in many forms. Shop vacs, industrial sized DC, and air cleaners or air scrubbers. All do different things. Dust collection is only needed when there is dust present such as sanding. You will also get fine dust from cutting as with blades, but as far a lathe work goes you can get fine particles if you turn very lightly or otherwise it is larger chips. "Dust collectors" collect dust and usually the close to the source the more efficient. Dust masks and helmets are dust prevention and safety equipment. Can not recommend anything because too much info not supplied. If just wanting something behind the lathe any and all DC or shop vacs will do the job. Not much suction needed. If safety equipment is what you are after then any N95 dust mask will do well but will have problems with beards and then may need a mask Trend is a very good system. One thing that always gets overlooked when talking about dust safety equipment is eyes. Dust in eyes is as dangerous as is through lungs. If you are allergic then not only breathing can present problems but also eye irritation as well. Combination of a good dust collection system as well as good safety equipment goes a long way in a shop.
 
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I have the dust collection on the lathe and the one mounted to the roof for fine particles. I wear the trend pro air helmet.

I purchased a particulate count machine off of amazon.

This will give you your answer.

I finished working in the shop and went and checked the particulate count an hour later(Jet roof air unit running). Still too high not to wear an n95.

My 2 cents.
 
Give it enough time and you'll find out if you needed a dust collector. It is like life insuranc,e no use unless you need it, but you don't know if you'll need it.

My son, who is in the fabrication business, was stunned that I didn't have one ( I do now!)
 
wolf creek knives said:
I'm looking at one of the Jet systems but I've also seen reviews on this site recently that have suggested the Harbor Freight system. Good luck but keep your health in mind when turning wood.
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You are referring to their dust collection systems not an air cleaner? I misunderstood when I originally posted this reply.
 
I have a Delta Shopmaster AP400 that I do not use as often as I probably should. I'm too busy around the house to plumb the shop (two car garage) for the tubing. At least that's what I keep telling myself. In reality I'm too frugal. Damn, there I go again. In reality I'm too cheap and lazy to run the tubing. I use a 4 inch expandable hose that I drag all over my shop and attach to my planer, jointer and table saw whenever I run them. I basically catch the big stuff but its actually the small dusty fines that should be more concerned about.
I've always considered getting an air cleaner to supplement.
 
I'm probably overkill on this one Mal BUT you did ask ...

I ise a trend air helmet when turning or sanding, especially when sanding.

I also have a ducted fine filter extractor ( record 4000 series 2000W ) which goes down to 0.5micron . This is sucking behind the work .

I use a chip extractor with fine cloth bag ( not fine enough as with a back light you can see the fine dust coming through the bag) to clear the general debris away. I have a microlene 400 ceiling unit above the dust bag of this to remove the fine dust ( but to be honest don't turn this on enough has it make too much noise ).

I recently got amother ceiling mounted air cleaning unit record 400 ( I think ) to pull dust away from me and this goes down to about 1 micron with double filters. This is really great and quite quiet running and even better has a time so you can leave running to clear the shop air when you go for a call of nature or more coffee .

I need to use the record 4000 more when I am using the bandsaw as I can often sneeze coloured snot even having only made a few bowl blanks, so I am trying to train myself to move the ducting adaptor before using the saw ( work i progress "cos it's only a few cuts" but I should know better.)

Of them all the air helmet is the greatest benefit, if a little noisy . Cool air so no glasses steaming up, face protection and light weight. Battery pack gives you to about 3 hours and I have spares so leave one charging overnight when using it.

Just check the shelves for the dust levels and think you're actively sucking that in every time youre in there . Sneezing for 2 hours after working with Elm convinced me. Also when bandsawing Ive been able to taste the oak dust afterwards so that makes me keener for a few weeks until I forget again !
 
magpens said:
@wolf creek knives
Thanks, Tom. . ( I am not grossed out at all !! . :) )
Are you quite sure that your sinus issues are due to breathing wood dust ? . I have no idea about diagnosis for such a condition.
Is the Trend Airpro something you wear ? . If so, I assume battery operated. . How often do you change the filters ?
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Not all my problems are wood dust related but my doc told me that wood dust, especially some exotics, really add to the stress of a sinus condition. According to what I've been told, wood dust exhilarates the condition but more importantly, continued exposure to wood dust (and other things) amplifies the condition and keeps the sinus cavity irritated and mucous production is increased, thus the nose blowing and nasal spray. I do notice that when I spend time away from the shop and the dust my condition does improve some, so it's not all bad.

The Trend Air/Pro shield does run on batteries and I usually get around 8-10 hours before I have to recharge the batteries. There's a little beeping noise it makes when the batteries start to run down so you still have time if you're doing something critical, but the beeping will drive you insane for sure. But it does work and it's easy to clean the two filters that are used.
 
Mortalis said:
You are referring to their dust collection systems not an air cleaner? I misunderstood when I originally posted this reply.
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I'm actually looking at both. A dust collection system that will be hooked up to each tool but also an air filter (the ceiling mount kind) that will scrub the air while I'm in the shop and can be run on a timer after I leave the shop. I haven't really decided on which system I want but I've seen a lot written here so I'll be looking into it.
 
Hey, Mal. Don't take this the wrong way, but I am going to answer from a completely different angle. If you are asking about it, you need to do something different. Something is making you think about it and our "instincts", "inner voice", "conscience" or whatever you want to call it is there for a reason.

There are two things we tend to not question. Those things that pose no harm to us and those things we know nothing about. If we know something about it and it can harm us, we begin to wonder.

"Maybe I am driving to fast"
"I should be careful with that knife"
"That person looks suspicious"
"Should I shut the mower off before I stick my hand there"
"Boy, that is loud. Do I need hearing protection"
"I love them, but I wonder if they are just using me"
"Is this a safe place to stand when that happens"
"Do I need to do something different to protect my lungs"

All of these types of questions have a basic answer - yes or no. They also all have more than one solution. I would say if you are questioning it, the answer is yes. The solution has a level that will be better for you than what you are doing now. So the real question is not if need it, but what the next step is for you.
 
MRDucks2 said:
Hey, Mal. Don't take this the wrong way, but I am going to answer from a completely different angle. If you are asking about it, you need to do something different. Something is making you think about it and our "instincts", "inner voice", "conscience" or whatever you want to call it is there for a reason.

There are two things we tend to not question. Those things that pose no harm to us and those things we know nothing about. If we know something about it and it can harm us, we begin to wonder.

"Maybe I am driving to fast"
"I should be careful with that knife"
"That person looks suspicious"
"Should I shut the mower off before I stick my hand there"
"Boy, that is loud. Do I need hearing protection"
"I love them, but I wonder if they are just using me"
"Is this a safe place to stand when that happens"
"Do I need to do something different to protect my lungs"

All of these types of questions have a basic answer - yes or no. They also all have more than one solution. I would say if you are questioning it, the answer is yes. The solution has a level that will be better for you than what you are doing now. So the real question is not if need it, but what the next step is for you.
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Nicely put and sound advice Mike. More should read what you've written here.
 
As mentioned by many already, basically if you have a workshop that you cut and sand in you should have some sort of dust collection. Sanding in the #1 dust producer. You do sanding then some sort of dust collector should be used along with dust safety equipment if you are serious about protecting yourself. Every shop is different. Every woodworker is different. Need to ask how much work other than pen making do you do. Do you cut down board length material to smaller dimensioned lumber?? Do you finish work in the same shop which includes sanding and top coating with fume producing products?? Collectors that can pick up chip producing byproducts require more power and larger equipment but that will not harm you. It is the small particles that you really can not see that will. But again need to survey the shop and plan out a system for each tool. Air cleaners are a good secondary tool to help clean the air and again sizing depends on the shop. Be vigalent with the use is a must too. They will not clean all the air and there will still be dust left on the floor. The next time you walk through the shop you kick that dust up in the air again and the process starts all over.

Back to the lathe. Many times I have a few minutes where I want to run into the shop just to either sand the ends down on a tube I glued the night before or to sand down a blank for top coating with CA the next day. I figure I do not need to put DC on but as soon as that sanding dust gets in the air it effects me and I need to walk over to the switch and put it on. Right away you see the dust get pulled in the collector and the air is cleaner. Plus no dust on the clothes. Just makes sense to have DC of some sort. So to answer the main question the OP asked, YES you need a dust collector. In my opinion.
 
Some times when we are making "big"chips of wood (or other materials), it tends to mask the fact that we are producing the micro-small particles at the same time. But those micron size particles remain airborne for hours after the cutting (or whatever process you do) has stopped. To test this, and be convinced, go into the shop a few hours after work is done. Armed with a flashlight, turn off the shop lighting. The directed beam of the flashlight will show the airborne particulate that you are breathing at that very moment! Those 'little guys', BTW, are the ones that present major, long term hazard. A good answer is combined low-micron dust collection at all tools,PLUS an air cleaner. Then add a capable dust mask as you work. I gradually came around to doing all this over the years, as I came to realize the true threat to my health. For the most part, it is not the big chunks that fall to the floor. It is the little stuff that is harder to see.
 
I appreciate the replies so far. . Thanks to all. . Further replies and comments by any and all are welcome and will be read thoughfully. . Thanks again.

All that I do in my shop is the lathe turning and related tasks including sanding the turned pens. . Cutting of everything ... big and small ... is done outside.

But, yes ... there is dust accumulation on the shelves and boxes in the shop ..... so I guess that means some of it gets on me .... and in me .... also !!

Perhaps a first step is to look into getting a Trend Airpro or similar.
 
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Having a limited space, (and budget) I use:

1) a Shop-Vac Air Cleaner that hangs from the ceiling, but I must admit I am sure I don't take the filter out for cleaning/replacement as frequently as I should and I don't always remember (or take the time) to turn it on.

2) a Dust Deputy Deluxe Cyclone Separator Kit attached to an old 25 Gallon Shop-Vac and a long Rockler Dust Right Expandable Shop Vacuum Hose Kit - It is about 4 feet long but stretches to 12 feet so I can reach all of the tools in my shop and a Rockler Dust Right FlexiPort Power Tool Hose Kit as to adapt it to my smaller and handheld tools. The whole thing is plugged into a Dust Collector rated Remote Switch for convenience. As an extra level of protection against fine dust, I put a vacuume bag in my Shop-Vac that is made for sanding drywall. It has been in service for 5+ years and the Shop-Vac filter looks as clean as it did when I first started - even after letting my 5-gallon Dust Deputy pail get filled to overflowing.

3) Depending on what I am doing, frequently sanding, I also wear one of the small disposable sanding masks with the exhale port on it because my Shop-Vac system doesn't get all the dust/particles. This is especially noticeable when I am sanding the SimStone / TruStone reconstituted materials more than just wood.

The older I get the more frequently I take the time to get these things set up and turned on. Especially when I start doing something that makes a certain little spot under my nose start to tingle.

I didn't spend a fortune, and it works pretty well for me in the small and somewhat confined space I have for a workshop.

Regards,
Dave
 
I have a grizzly dust collector with canister filter with a trash can separator, hanging air cleaner, and outside the shop I have a hepa filter for the dust that escapes. It takes up most of my room in my shop, but with my asthma, I need to be sure I'm not breathing too much in...masks are hard for me.
 
Old thread but..... I'm looking for another unit for a different location. My cousin has lung cancer... very strong possibility it's from turning.
 
WriteON said:
Old thread but..... I'm looking for another unit for a different location. My cousin has lung cancer... very strong possibility it's from turning.
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No matter what type of shop vac or dust collector you have you will never capture all dust. The best way around that is to protect yourself with a dust face shield. I will leave that to all that will mention brands. But Trend is a top rated one to start the list for you.
 
A thought came to me…
- I use a dust collector with a Thien baffle to help reduce dust and debris in my immediate work area to make it easier to work. It works well.
- I have a Jet air filtration system to help reduce the dust that gets on everything in the shop to make it easier to clean. It works well.
- I have a Trend Airshield Pro to help reduce the dust in the air I breathe to help with sinus and breathing concerns. It works well.

Independently, each would do decently but I feel like my craft, my shop and my body all benefit more from the three pronged effort.
 
I actively followed the thread when it first was posted in 2021 - and agreed with a lot of the answers and steps. My father-in-law was a very active woodworker who didn't believe in dust collection and he ultimately died from complications from emphysema shortly before the original postings. That justified a lot of my purchases, as I was actively doing a lot of lot of wood working beyond my pen stuff.

Fast forward to today - we relocated and downsized, so I am primarily turning pens, most of them from Alumilite Clear Slow or similar resins. I tend to wet sand more than anything else. I keep a dust collector inlet port directly behind the lathe to try and catch most of the ribbons of resin flying off the lathe and shut it when wet sanding. I modified my dust collector years ago to a 0.5 micron filter from Wynn Engineering with a cyclonic separator in the input line, so I know its cleaning the air way more than a simple vacuum does. When I turn the occasional bowl or kids tops from wood, I am significantly more careful and drop back to my earlier ways of dust control, but with the pens, I am a little more laid back.

I have an overhead Rikon air filter that I leave running all the time - mostly to help keep the shop from getting messy. I do wear an Elipse P100 dust filtering mask for those things that kick up a bit of dust including when I am mixing mica powder and resins together for casting. I sold my larger helmet style Triton facemask/breather as it seems a bit overkill now.

So, I guess my message is be aware of what you are doing and adapt accordingly. DO NOT think that what we do is harmless, especially if you have wood allergies, but I don't believe a huge dust collection implementation is a mandatory purchase for a pen turner. A good dust mask - absolutely, but make sure it is one you will always wear - it doesn't do anything when it sits on the shelf. Also be sure to clean your shop each day, minimizing the dust accumulation on things and minimizing the hazard of fire and tripping from piles of shavings.

Have fun - stay healthy, it definitely helps!

Kevin
 
NJturner, if I had wood allergies, I would pick another hobby or career. Same with foods or medications. I see the disclaimer: Don't take XXXX if you are allergic to it.
 
It may take years until you have symptoms of the adverse effects of dust in your lungs. When you do become aware of it, it's too late...the damage has been done and is irreversible. Think of coal miners, or those working in ship yards years ago with asbestos.
 
I have a Trend... My .02 is it's for face/head protection only. The fans/filter is to keep the face shield from fogging.
Back on subject....any Rockler ownership?
Next Boom Arms ...please recommend a decent arm.
 
OK, I'll add my personal journey (this is just me):

1. Father was a 3 pack-a-day smoker. He passed away at age 47 from a heart attack. I was with him for 14 years.
2. Diagnosed as an Asthmatic at age 7 - have been on inhaled corticosteroids 90% of the past 60 years.
3. Due to work, I periodically shoveled/raked/spread wood mulch/chips - many molds endemic.
4. Due to work, I periodically re-raked wood chips that had white mold.
5. Lived in a house within 10 acres of dense woods - lots of leaf mold, rotting trees, etc.
6. Cut/split/stored firewood stock. When restacking, cleaning the barn-raked a lot of rotted wood.
7. Decided to explore woodturning at age 50, until age 63. Shop was in my basement with poor ventilation.
8. 4 renovation projects over 20 years at our house, 2 that removed black mold, all had extreme drywall dust - even with very good precautions.
- A few other incidentals, but that is the basis.
- When I started woodturning I had an Overhead Jet Air Filter; Jet Two stage dust collector; several industrial-grade face masks/respirators (wife is an industrial chemist).

Now: Diagnosed in 2019 with ABPA.

1. Eliminated any woodworking/woodturning
2. Moved out of our house in the woods for a more open area cluster home.
3. Restrict as much as possible exposure to leaf mold/rotting trees, etc.

Was the ABPA a result of my woodturning? Nah - it was a culmination of many variables.

End comment... Make an effort to reduce your exposure to dust; a serious effort. I have no regrets, but looking for a new hobby in retirement is easier than a new/used set of lungs.

Be well.
 
Woodchipper said:
NJturner, if I had wood allergies, I would pick another hobby or career. Same with foods or medications. I see the disclaimer: Don't take XXXX if you are allergic to it.
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I don't fully agree - there are lots of materials to choose from when making pens (just like meds) - be informed, selective, as well as careful. Lots of people are allergic to CA, cocobola, some exotics, or nut based products, so they find alternates vs giving up. But just because you aren't allergic doesn't mean you can disregard safe working practices which I think is more the theme of this thread.
 
I'm allergic to work so I retired in 2009. One never knows what they will be allergic to until exposed to it. I wasn't allergic to anything producing pollen until fall 1969. Add stings from wasps (never had this when I was a kid) and white face hornets. This turned into asthma and chronic rhinitis. Wife's friend developed asthma when he was in his 40s. He was a runner and couldn't figure why he would have coughing fits when running. Running triggers my asthma, too.
 
I just finished a 12-day course of prednisone and antibiotics for a sinus infection. It never occurred to me that my infrequent pen making might possibly have been a cause of the sinus infection, but now that I've read this thread, I'm going to be more serious about protection. By the way, my ENT doctor said not to use nasal sprays because although they work temporarily, the inflammation comes "roaring back" (his words) after 2-3 hours. This was my experience when I self-diagnosed before going to see the ENT dr. I couldn't sleep for more than 2-3 hours at a time because using a Cipap machine for sleep apnea, you have to breathe through your nose, and when it's stuffed up, you can't.
 
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