Help with modified cigar

[Jmaxcy]

Hey everyone

I purchased some modified cigar kits from a member here. No directions on assembly or anything, decided it would be fun to try to figure it out....

After looking at the pieces I'm fairly certain the modification is simply a Berea fat cigar kit, but with no center band, and this is done by lengthening the upper tube. All the other kit pieces are you essentially the same as a regular cigar kit, except for one additional piece which I'm unsure where it should go. This piece is not included in the standard Berea kit.

There are two things I am struggling with...

First it came with three tubes. Two that are longer and one shorter. I assume I am only using the longer tubes since because of the no center band modification. the two longer tubes are exactly the same length (2.091 inches). This is the same length as the lower tube of a regular Berea cigar kit I Also purchased, but Where I struggle is that this is slightly longer than the lower tube of other cigar kits I have on hand, which are 2.073 inches from two different manufacturers. The refills are the same size so not sure if some other piece (would have to be the nib or the twist mechanism) is shorter to make up for the added tube length.

I guess my question is, is .018 inch difference enough to be noticeable? If anything the nib will protrude slightly less. Would be more more of an issue if it protruded more. I don't know if anyway to tell this ahead of assembling the pen.

Second issue - there is this piece (black small piece shown below), that I have no idea where it goes. It is the same diameter as the couplings so I'm assuming it's meant to be pressed into one of the tubes. The only place I could think of is at the bottom of the upper tube, where the center band would normally be pressed, but I don't think this is really needed as the twist mechanism going into the cap tube keeps it in place.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I took a picture of the pieces below. Really want to put one of these together as they are higher end finishes (black titanium, platinum), and I'm itching to see how the modification looks!

 

[DrD]

I don't understand what you mean by "modified." how is the completed pen going to be different from a regular Cigar kit? Are you wanting to make a one-piece pen? If that is the case, I posted several times about 6 mos ago how I went about making a one-piece Cigar from a Berea kit.

 

[its_virgil]

Search the library for articles about making the one piece cigar. The two longer tubes: one should slide inside the other. It is easier for you to read the articles than for someone to write an explanation.

I think there may be a couple of articles about this.

Reply back if you need help. I know where one of the articles lives.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Hey everyone

I purchased some modified cigar kits from a member here. No directions on assembly or anything, decided it would be fun to try to figure it out....

After looking at the pieces I'm fairly certain the modification is simply a Berea fat cigar kit, but with no center band, and this is done by lengthening the upper tube. All the other kit pieces are you essentially the same as a regular cigar kit, except for one additional piece which I'm unsure where it should go. This piece is not included in the standard Berea kit.

There are two things I am struggling with...

First it came with three tubes. Two that are longer and one shorter. I assume I am only using the longer tubes since because of the no center band modification. the two longer tubes are exactly the same length (2.091 inches). This is the same length as the lower tube of a regular Berea cigar kit I Also purchased, but Where I struggle is that this is slightly longer than the lower tube of other cigar kits I have on hand, which are 2.073 inches from two different manufacturers. The refills are the same size so not sure if some other piece (would have to be the nib or the twist mechanism) is shorter to make up for the added tube length.

I guess my question is, is .018 inch difference enough to be noticeable? If anything the nib will protrude slightly less. Would be more more of an issue if it protruded more. I don't know if anyway to tell this ahead of assembling the pen.

Second issue - there is this piece (black small piece shown below), that I have no idea where it goes. It is the same diameter as the couplings so I'm assuming it's meant to be pressed into one of the tubes. The only place I could think of is at the bottom of the upper tube, where the center band would normally be pressed, but I don't think this is really needed as the twist mechanism going into the cap tube keeps it in place.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I took a picture of the pieces below. Really want to put one of these together as they are higher end finishes (black titanium, platinum), and I'm itching to see how the modification looks!

There are many many ways to modify pen kits. It seems that lately the term "modified xxxxx" has become to mean a "one piece xxxxxx". Looking at the parts led me to believe they were for making the one piece cigar.

One Piece Cigar Pen

This cigar works like a regular cigar except you extend the refill by twisting the nib instead of the barrel. Click on the image below to begin download of PDF. Author: Ron Hossack

www.penturners.org

I hope this is what you need.
Don

 

[Jmaxcy]

I don't understand what you mean by "modified." how is the completed pen going to be different from a regular Cigar kit? Are you wanting to make a one-piece pen? If that is the case, I posted several times about 6 mos ago how I went about making a one-piece Cigar from a Berea kit.

It's not a one piece kit. It is essentially (I think) a cigar kit without the center band. This is done by (I think) lengthening the upper to be the length of what would normally be the upper tube + the center band.

 

[Jmaxcy]

Search the library for articles about making the one piece cigar. The two longer tubes: one should slide inside the other. It is easier for you to read the articles than for someone to write an explanation.

I think there may be a couple of articles about this.

Reply back if you need help. I know where one of the articles lives.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

There are many many ways to modify pen kits. It seems that lately the term "modified xxxxx" has become to mean a "one piece xxxxxx". Looking at the parts led me to believe they were for making the one piece cigar.

One Piece Cigar Pen

This cigar works like a regular cigar except you extend the refill by twisting the nib instead of the barrel. Click on the image below to begin download of PDF. Author: Ron Hossack

www.penturners.org

I hope this is what you need.
Don

Thank you!

I think this is the intended end result. It's a cigar pen with no center band. Only band is the coupler in the lower barrel.

 

[KenB259]

I would guess that you don't use the shorter tube at all. The person that sold you the kits should be able to tell you for sure. As for the little black piece, I'm at a loss too as to where that might go. I really do like the look of that cigar with the modified center.

 

[Jmaxcy]

I would guess that you don't use the shorter tube at all. The person that sold you the kits should be able to tell you for sure. As for the little black piece, I'm at a loss too as to where that might go. I really do like the look of that cigar with the modified center.

Thanks I think you're right. I might try to put it together without the black piece and see what happens. I saw somewhere someone did this and said the upper tube plus the center band is 53mm and I measured both long tubes and they are both 53mm so I'm thinking that has to be the set up. Im more concerned that 53mm is too long for the lower barrel as it's longer than the Lower barrel on other cigar kits I have by around 1mm.

Unfortunately the person I bought it from told me he had no idea how to assemble but it should be prefabricated to work, so I took the risk and bought them anyways haha.

I'll probably just give it a go and see how it works out. I love the look too

 

[magpens]

Hang on a minute here ..... LOL ! . . Do you have any idea of which cigar pen kit you have ? . I usually make the kit from Berea.

The Berea cigar pen kit uses two brass tubes of different length .... the upper is 1.91" and the lower is 2.09" .... both 10 mm diam. (drill size)

So, in your picture above, it could be one of the longer brass tubes that is the extra ...... assuming you have the Berea kit.

( I know there are other cigar kits and the tube lengths may not be identical to the Berea kit )

 

[Jmaxcy]

Hang on a minute here ..... LOL ! . . Do you have any idea of which cigar pen kit you have ? . I usually make the kit from Berea.

The Berea cigar pen kit uses two brass tubes of different length .... the upper is 1.91" and the lower is 2.09" .... both 10 mm diam. (drill size)

So, in your picture above, it could be one of the longer brass tubes that is the extra ...... assuming you have the Berea kit.

( I know there are other cigar kits and the tube lengths may not be identical to the Berea kit )

That's reassuring thanks. It's definitely a barea kit. And that makes sense because in the same order I got a "non-modified" Berea kit and it measures 2.09 just like you said.
Could this modification be as simple as using two lower barrels and not using the center band? If so I might do this a lot more often haha.

im going to give it a go and see what happens. I'll report back the results!

 

[magpens]

OK .... further thoughts ....

If you leave out the usual cigar center piece, that causes an effective shortening of the upper "half" by 0.26" ( I measured the center piece) .

To compensate, you need the upper brass tube to be lengthened by that amount.

So adding 0.26" to the original upper length of 1.91" gets us to a length of 2.17".
But that is longer than the length of the original lower tube.

So you can't just use another, "original length", lower brass tube (which is 2.09" long).
You need a longer brass tube to compensate for the length reduction caused by leaving out the center piece.

EDIT: Bear in mind that the "center piece" of the Berea kit actually consists of two parts .... a black part, and a sortof washer ... together 0.26"

 

[magpens]

And .... more thoughts ....

The Berea instruction sheet refers to the two parts of the "center piece" as (1) a "Decorative Ring", and (2) the "Center Band".

It would not be good pen construction practice to just leave these out and make up a new upper tube of length 2.17".
The reason is that the "Center Band" part is responsible for centering the brass tube when it is pressed into the original tube.
If you simply make the upper tube longer, leaving out the "Center Band", there is no longer any way to keep the brass tube centered.

UNLESS OF COURSE, this is the function of the little black piece that we all have been struggling to find a purpose for !!!!!

Did you say that that little black piece fits inside the cigar pen's brass tubing ? . . That little piece could do the centering of the new upper tube

 

[Jmaxcy]

OK .... further thoughts ....

If you leave out the usual cigar center piece, that causes an effective shortening of the upper "half" by 0.26" ( I measured the center piece) .

To compensate, you need the upper brass tube to be lengthened by that amount.

So adding 0.26" to the original upper length of 1.91" gets us to a length of 2.17".
But that is longer than the length of the original lower tube.

So you can't just use another, "original length", lower brass tube (which is 2.09" long).
You need a longer brass tube to compensate for the length reduction caused by leaving out the center piece.

EDIT: Bear in mind that the "center piece" of the Berea kit actually consists of two parts .... a black part, and a sortof washer ... together 0.26"

I thought I had it figured out. You think I could just leave a little bit on the end of the barrel I have? Or is .08 of an inch too much?

 

[Jmaxcy]

And .... more thoughts ....

The Berea instruction sheet refers to the two parts of the "center piece" as (1) a "Decorative Ring", and (2) the "Center Band".

It would not be good pen construction practice to just leave these out and make up a new upper tube of length 2.17".
The reason is that the "Center Band" part is responsible for centering the brass tube when it is pressed into the original tube.
If you simply make the upper tube longer, leaving out the "Center Band", there is no longer any way to keep the brass tube centered.

UNLESS OF COURSE, this is the function of the little black piece that we all have been struggling to find a purpose for !!!!!

Did you say that that little black piece fits inside the cigar pen's brass tubing ? . . That little piece could do the centering of the new upper tube

Yes! It does. That's what I thought it might be for. So thought is to press that into the center part of the upper barrel...

 

[Joebobber]

I didn't read the replies, so sorry if i repeat anyone, but the smaller 8mm tube goes on the finial down over the twist mech.

 

[magpens]

YEAH !! ( skipping over "Joebobber" for the moment )

Continuing with that line of thought above him ..... you say in your original post right at the top of this thread .....

"The only place I could think of is at the bottom of the upper tube, where the center band would normally be pressed, but I don't think this is really needed as the twist mechanism going into the cap tube keeps it in place."

I think we have it figured out ..... but we still need to make up a lengthened upper brass tube ..... 2.17" long ..... 10 mm diam (drill size).

EDIT: Of course, we are theorizing a little bit ..... the proof of these ideas will only come by making up the tube + pen and check it out.
There could be a couple of trials trials involved, so be prepared to disassemble things a time or two.

 

[Joebobber]

Yeah it looks like the 1 tube is not needed. Just the front and really any length rear tube will work as long as it is longer than the twist mechanism.

 

[magpens]

@Joebobber

I think you are right in both your posts above, but it is not just "any length" .... the length needs to be carefully worked out for best results.

 

[Joebobber]

@Joebobber

I think you are right in both your posts above, but it is not just "any length" .... the length needs to be carefully worked out for best results.

True there are caveats, such as the 8mm tube that goes over the twist mech, but you can shorten it or put a longer one on if needed. In the scope of things the only real important tube is the front tube.

 

[magpens]

True there are caveats, such as the 8mm tube that goes over the twist mech, but you can shorten it or put a longer one on if needed. In the scope of things the only real important tube is the front tube.

OK ..... I see what you are saying ..... and it is so because the refill is fully enclosed by the twist mech, the lower tube, and the nib piece.

In the final analysis, the length of the upper tube may not be all that important because of the adjustable position of the 8mm over the twist.

EDIT: So an upper tube length the same as the lower tube length could possibly be made to work.

 

[magpens]

Things are clearer now.
I think this has been a worthwhile discussion.
I have learned some things ..... or perhaps relearned things I had previously worked out but had forgotten.

Every pen kit is different, and presents new challenges when you try to do something out of the ordinary.

I do like the idea of this modification that @Jmaxcy is working on .... another approach to the Cigar.

I also hope that @Wayne will pick up on this .... there is material for a short, simple, but interesting tutorial in the IAP Resources.

It should all come together when @Jmaxcy has completed this pen.

There is just one little issue that I am still concerned about. . And that is the fact that the top "half" of the pen still has to twist with respect to the bottom "half" for the refill extension/retraction to work. . The two "halves" are separated at the so-called "Twist Holder" (see Berea instructions) and freedom of rotation at that point must be maintained for the pen to work properly. . . Just as in the original Cigar, the two "halves" are held together by the friction between the twist mechanism and the 8 mm brass tube that is part of the so-called "Clip Bushing" which is attached to the "Finial+Clip" assembly.

The only difference from the original Cigar design is the omission of the so-called "Center Band", which actually provides no real function other than forming a nicely finished lower end to the upper barrel/tube. . With this "Jmaxcy modification", the lower end of the upper barrel/tube could be regarded as "unfinished" in some sense, but that is no problem because the end is not exposed except at refill replacement time.

For somebody wanting to duplicate this "Jmaxy modification" the only real challenge is providing the small "black ring" for inserting into the lower end of the upper barrel to keep it centered on the twist mechanism. . I don't know where that "black ring" came from, but it could quite easily be made from appropriate brass stock (or other material). . Possibly there is already a brass tube on the market that could be used for this purpose to fit inside the 10 mm (drill size) brass tube used in the Cigar pen kit. . I have not checked out the availability of such. . But if it is not readily available, such a piece could be made ..... the use of a metal-working lathe would be a big help in making it.

 

[Jmaxcy]

Thanks all!

the tubes are glued up so no turning back now. It seems we are in agreement the .08 difference in the upper barrel shouldn't pose an issue? And I'm assuming I am going to press the 8mm black piece into the bottom end of the upper barrel, the same way I would press the center band in on a normal kit?

And again, didn't come up with this. Was sold the kit by someone else just trying to figure it out with no instructions. Only thing that would be needed to reproduce would be the 8mm piece just mentioned, that seemed to be fabricated by whoever provided it.

 

[Jmaxcy]

Things are clearer now.
I think this has been a worthwhile discussion.
I have learned some things ..... or perhaps relearned things I had previously worked out but had forgotten.

Every pen kit is different, and presents new challenges when you try to do something out of the ordinary.

I do like the idea of this modification that @Jmaxcy is working on .... another approach to the Cigar.

I also hope that @Wayne will pick up on this .... there is material for a short, simple, but interesting tutorial in the IAP Resources.

It should all come together when @Jmaxcy has completed this pen.

There is just one little issue that I am still concerned about. . And that is the fact that the top "half" of the pen still has to twist with respect to the bottom "half" for the refill extension/retraction to work. . The two "halves" are separated at the so-called "Twist Holder" (see Berea instructions) and freedom of rotation at that point must be maintained for the pen to work properly. . . Just as in the original Cigar, the two "halves" are held together by the friction between the twist mechanism and the 8 mm brass tube that is part of the so-called "Clip Bushing" which is attached to the "Finial+Clip" assembly.

That was kind of what I was saying originally. Do we need the 8mm piece at all? The twist mechanism going into the clip tube should keep the upper barrel centered and attached to the lower barrel, I would think.

 

[magpens]

That was kind of what I was saying originally. Do we need the 8mm piece at all? The twist mechanism going into the clip tube should keep the upper barrel centered and attached to the lower barrel, I would think.

@Jmaxcy

But without the 8mm brass tube (which attaches to the finial) there is no friction on the twist mechanism to (a) hold the pen together, and (b) facilitate the extension/retraction of the refill. ....... unless the mysterious "black piece" somehow does that !

Yes, I do acknowledge that you probably had the right ideas from the very beginning !! . . But took me a while to catch up to you .... LOL !!!

 

[Jmaxcy]

@Jmaxcy

But without the 8mm brass tube (which attaches to the finial) there is no friction on the twist mechanism to (a) hold the pen together, and (b) facilitate the extension/retraction of the refill. ....... unless the mysterious "black piece" somehow does that !

Yes, I do acknowledge that you had the right ideas from the very beginning !!

I'm think I'm saying I don't need the black ring at all. The brass tube attached to the clip should keep the barrel centered via the twist mechanism.
I think what I'll do is turn it, and see what it feels like without using the black ring. If it doesn't work then I'll press it into the upper tube and see what happens!!

 

[magpens]

@Jmaxcy

Keep us posted. Hope everything works out as you proceed.

 

[magpens]

There are a couple of errors in one of my posts above ...
... an error in quoting a measurement .... the measured length of the Cigar "Center Band" + "Decorative Ring" should be 0.226" (not 0.26)

Also, as I already acknowledged ....
The actual length of the upper tube in the Cigar is not critical provided that it is "long enough"; an experiment is required to determine that.

The supplied upper brass tube in the Berea Cigar is 1.91", and that length is intended to be used with the center portion of 0.226" length.

So if center portion is removed (as in the design under consideration) an upper tube 1.91 + .226 = 2.14" or longer should work just fine.

An extra lower tube (which is 2.09" long as supplied) might work. . I guess that's why the extra lower tube is included in first picture at top.