Help finding a REALLY High End Kit

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Rolandranch

Rolandranch

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Jun 18, 2015
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Tucson, AZ
My friend has a customer that wants to buy a really high-end fountain pen from him. I'm trying to help him find the right kit but I can't seem to find the style and quality that the customer wants. It is for his wife so he does not want something too masculine. He gave a few links to pen styles that he would be interested in. I'm not sure how particular this customer is but know that he is willing to spend as much as it will cost him for a VERY nice pen. Anybody know of any kits that would be at all similar to the pens below?

I understand that these are not handmade pens but the customer wants something similar. These are the photos he gave of pen styles that he is interested in:

Parker.jpg

montblanc.png

dupontfountainpen.jpg

omasfountainpen.jpg

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
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I would hesitate to use pictures of pen than you cannot replicate.

These are all wonderful pens, but as an example... The first pictures have both horizontal and vertical "cuts" but if you cannot do this, do not include them in your portfolio of "Possible."

Highlight what you have already been able to do, and what you have reasonably mastered!.
 
These are the pictures that the customer came up with on his own. I know that there are no kits out there that are the exact same as these but hope to find something similar if possible.

I would hesitate to use pictures of pen than you cannot replicate.

These are all wonderful pens, but as an example... The first pictures have both horizontal and vertical "cuts" but if you cannot do this, do not include them in your portfolio of "Possible."

Highlight what you have already been able to do, and what you have reasonably mastered!.
Click to expand...
 
I was going to suggest the Great Palace Vine, but Cody beat me to it in the post above.

You say that the Emperor is too masculine; there is a smaller version, the Junior Emperor.

Also, have a look at the Jr. Statesman (lower down the scale of "high end")
 
I have seen all of Dayacom's kits and will probably end up using one of them since they seem to be the only supplier of high-quality high-end kits. I was just curious to know if there were any other high-end kits that are as good as or better than Dayacom that I don't know about.

Thank you all for your input!
 
One of the members who might be able to help you further is Dalepenkala

His contact information is included here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f167/emperors-complete-package-142906/

There might be a high end kit available in Europe that we don't know about.

I would inquire from .... sales@taylorsmirfield.co.uk

Their website doesn't seem to have any but an inquiry might yield results .... https://taylorsmirfield.co.uk/

Edited after JT's post below:

There is the Imperial which you can view here (referred to by JT below):

https://www.exoticblanks.com/Imperial-Fountain-Pen-Rhodium-and-22KT-Gold.html
 
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That is a little unfair when you say highend and say only Dayacom has them. The Cambridge is a nice kit. I do like the Imperial as my classiest kit. I second that with a Majestic, then a Emperor.

Then you have to now ask them what type nib they like and may have to tune it just right for them if they are that picky. Have to ask them what type feed do they like. A little more involved than looks.
 
jttheclockman said:
That is a little unfair when you say highend and say only Dayacom has them. The Cambridge is a nice kit. I do like the Imperial as my classiest kit. I second that with a Majestic, then a Emperor.

Then you have to now ask them what type nib they like and may have to tune it just right for them if they are that picky. Have to ask them what type feed do they like. A little more involved than looks.
Click to expand...
I agree that PSI's Majestic line is a good kit. I have turned many Majestic Jr. pens and a few dayacom kits. I personally prefer the dayacom quality over the PSI kits. I have not made a Cambridge kit but have seen the kits at Woodcraft. I am just trying to find the highest quality that I can possibly find. I don't mean that nobody else has good high-end kits. It's just that I've found that Dayacom has very nice high-quality kits.
 
Because we sell nearly all the vendors, I have no particular "horse in this parade".

In general, I think your statement is fair, Seth--and inciteful, especially for a person of your age and experience.

I would warn your friend that the pens you show do not share a single "style", but they do share a "pedigree". My best guess is that the "customer" buys the name, more than the pen style. So, no matter what you make, it won't say "Omas", so it won't be as good. (color me jaded, if you wish--but I believe branding sells).

Now, you CAN make a nice closed end, tapered pen with a very good nib. It could well be the equal of the pens the customer has pictured, but I doubt the customer will see it as acceptable. Sometimes, you can't win--I perceive this (from a distance and knowing nothing about the specifics) as one of those times.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!
 
magpens said:
One of the members who might be able to help you further is Dalepenkala

His contact information is included here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f167/emperors-complete-package-142906/

There might be a high end kit available in Europe that we don't know about.

I would inquire from .... sales@taylorsmirfield.co.uk

Their website doesn't seem to have any but an inquiry might yield results .... https://taylorsmirfield.co.uk/

Edited after JT's post below:

There is the Imperial which you can view here (referred to by JT below):

https://www.exoticblanks.com/Imperial-Fountain-Pen-Rhodium-and-22KT-Gold.html
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info. I may have found what I need.
 
AWLogue said:
Get yourself a 14K or 18K gold nib for whatever pen you decide to make. It'll make it much more valuable.
Click to expand...


This IS good advice, but let me relate a true story:

I made a pen for an acquaintance--he wanted a circuit board (when the concept was new and they were selling for hundreds of dollars). I bought the blank from one of the noted makers of the time (you would NOT recognize the name, so don't blame anyone on IAP). Spent a couple hundred dollars and made the pen on a Baron, with a customized nib. Sent it to him, and billed him for the agreed on price (under $500).

As a friend he was very nice and phrased his letter carefully--completely rejecting my pen and returning it to me. Of course, I returned his check. I still have that pen to remind me---KNOW what your customer wants and KNOW that you can provide it OR, don't be surprised if the project goes south. (I could afford the loss of money, the loss of pride was much more difficult).

This is why I say, GOOD LUCK. And believe me, I mean it sincerely!!!
 
ed4copies said:
This IS good advice, but let me relate a true story:

I made a pen for an acquaintance--he wanted a circuit board (when the concept was new and they were selling for hundreds of dollars). I bought the blank from one of the noted makers of the time (you would NOT recognize the name, so don't blame anyone on IAP). Spent a couple hundred dollars and made the pen on a Baron, with a customized nib. Sent it to him, and billed him for the agreed on price (under $500).

As a friend he was very nice and phrased his letter carefully--completely rejecting my pen and returning it to me. Of course, I returned his check. I still have that pen to remind me---KNOW what your customer wants and KNOW that you can provide it OR, don't be surprised if the project goes south. (I could afford the loss of money, the loss of pride was much more difficult).

This is why I say, GOOD LUCK. And believe me, I mean it sincerely!!!
Click to expand...
Thank you for this advice. I appreciate it.
 
I'm not quite sure I understand. You say: "A friend has a customer . . .". Who is going to be making the pen here, you or your friend? If it's you, you need to be talking to the customer. If it's your friend, feel free to hand out all the advice you want.

I tend to agree that Silver Pen Parts may be the best way to go. Not totally sold on the necessity of a gold nib except to pad the bill unless the customer specifies it. Jowo makes black oxide and ruthenium steel nibs that would look good against a silver grip section. Take a look at Meisternibs - Blog. Most people can't tell the difference between gold and steel in use anyway.

Someone just needs to sit down with the customer and figure out what he wants. Better yet, unless it's going to be a surprise, someone needs to sit down with his wife. Does she want fat or slim? Heavy or light? Clip or roll stop? Postable or non-postable cap? Maybe neither he nor she cares, but if there's a bunch of money being spent someone ought to try to find out. Preferences in pens are very personal things. Take Ed's advice seriously.

Good luck,

Bill
 
Mike Redburn - Silver Pen Parts - can make just about anything you can dream up in a totally custom pen for you. Silver, yes, all day long. Gold, any karat you want. Platinum, back up the Brinks truck.

Mike can take a vague idea and create designs that you would be proud to call your own. Don't limit yourself to what you have seen elsewhere.
 
bmachin said:
I'm not quite sure I understand. You say: "A friend has a customer . . .". Who is going to be making the pen here, you or your friend? If it's you, you need to be talking to the customer. If it's your friend, feel free to hand out all the advice you want.

I tend to agree that Silver Pen Parts may be the best way to go. Not totally sold on the necessity of a gold nib except to pad the bill unless the customer specifies it. Jowo makes black oxide and ruthenium steel nibs that would look good against a silver grip section. Take a look at Meisternibs - Blog. Most people can't tell the difference between gold and steel in use anyway.

Someone just needs to sit down with the customer and figure out what he wants. Better yet, unless it's going to be a surprise, someone needs to sit down with his wife. Does she want fat or slim? Heavy or light? Clip or roll stop? Postable or non-postable cap? Maybe neither he nor she cares, but if there's a bunch of money being spent someone ought to try to find out. Preferences in pens are very personal things. Take Ed's advice seriously.

Good luck,

Bill
Click to expand...
Thank you for responding and for the great advice. This pen is for my friend's customer. I'm just trying to help him find the best kit to use (I'm also learning a lot about high end kits). Based on what the customer has said, I don't think he is very particular himself. I do believe it is meant for a surprise. The customer will know what to expect before it is even made and will see pictures of the finished product before it gets sent to him. Also, thank you for the advice on nibs. I'll send all this info over to my friend and he'll make sure that the customer gets exactly what he wants. Thanks again.
 
HI End

Rolandranch said:
These are the pictures that the customer came up with on his own. I know that there are no kits out there that are the exact same as these but hope to find something similar if possible.

I would hesitate to use pictures of pen than you cannot replicate.

These are all wonderful pens, but as an example... The first pictures have both horizontal and vertical "cuts" but if you cannot do this, do not include them in your portfolio of "Possible."

Highlight what you have already been able to do, and what you have reasonably mastered!.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Hi
I have thought pretty hard on how to word this to where I don't offend anyone hopefully .

I have made a few pool cues , nothing very original at all.
I can buy some very nice pre made forearms and trim rings .
Plus 5th turned shafts from cue maker supply houses and pre made inlayed but sleeves .
All of the parts can be the best money can buy . I could even have the supply house make me special for me custom parts ....

When that cue is done as in me assembling it, you will have at best a mid level custom cue made by a unknown cue maker.

HI end pool cue don't have massed produced production parts used in them .
If they did then anyone wanting to be a be hi end cue maker can go buy costly cue parts and become a high end cuemaker over night or the very first cue they make .

From my point of view if you want to make hi end pens then you need to be able to make most of the parts yourself .
 
farmer said:
Hi
I have thought pretty hard on how to word this to where I don't offend anyone hopefully .

I have made a few pool cues , nothing very original at all.
I can buy some very nice pre made forearms and trim rings .
Plus 5th turned shafts from cue maker supply houses and pre made inlayed but sleeves .
All of the parts can be the best money can buy . I could even have the supply house make me special for me custom parts ....

When that cue is done as in me assembling it, you will have at best a mid level custom cue made by a unknown cue maker.

HI end pool cue don't have massed produced production parts used in them .
If they did then anyone wanting to be a be hi end cue maker can go buy costly cue parts and become a high end cuemaker over night or the very first cue they make .

From my point of view if you want to make hi end pens then you need to be able to make most of the parts yourself .
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you. I am actually interested in designing and creating my own pen parts out of silver and other precious metals so that I can make the type of high-end pens that you are talking about that. But for now, I have to stick to using mass produced kits that everybody else has access to. Thanks for your insight.
 
I agree with "farmer's" response and your response to him. I would take that high end pen request, file it firmly in my mind and let it drive me to get to that quality of work.

One thing that many quality pen makers learned and reported here over the years: Don't give away your mistakes or put a low quality pen out for customers to see. They will remember your low quality work and it will stick with them. IF you can't produce the quality of pen that you are sure the customer wants, don't try to settle for a less quality pen in hopes he might take it. If he rejects it, you will be the loser, even in the future with him. With some customers, you don't get a second chance.
 
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I tend to agree with you Ed, if the customer is looking at Omas, Mont Blanc and Parker I seriously doubt they will be satisfied with a no-name custom in the same price range unless the custom maker has some claim to fame in their own right.
ed4copies said:
Because we sell nearly all the vendors, I have no particular "horse in this parade".

In general, I think your statement is fair, Seth--and inciteful, especially for a person of your age and experience.

I would warn your friend that the pens you show do not share a single "style", but they do share a "pedigree". My best guess is that the "customer" buys the name, more than the pen style. So, no matter what you make, it won't say "Omas", so it won't be as good. (color me jaded, if you wish--but I believe branding sells).

Now, you CAN make a nice closed end, tapered pen with a very good nib. It could well be the equal of the pens the customer has pictured, but I doubt the customer will see it as acceptable. Sometimes, you can't win--I perceive this (from a distance and knowing nothing about the specifics) as one of those times.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!
Click to expand...
 
Pens

Rolandranch said:
farmer said:
Hi
I have thought pretty hard on how to word this to where I don't offend anyone hopefully .

I have made a few pool cues , nothing very original at all.
I can buy some very nice pre made forearms and trim rings .
Plus 5th turned shafts from cue maker supply houses and pre made inlayed but sleeves .
All of the parts can be the best money can buy . I could even have the supply house make me special for me custom parts ....

When that cue is done as in me assembling it, you will have at best a mid level custom cue made by a unknown cue maker.

HI end pool cue don't have massed produced production parts used in them .
If they did then anyone wanting to be a be hi end cue maker can go buy costly cue parts and become a high end cuemaker over night or the very first cue they make .

From my point of view if you want to make hi end pens then you need to be able to make most of the parts yourself .
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you. I am actually interested in designing and creating my own pen parts out of silver and other precious metals so that I can make the type of high-end pens that you are talking about that. But for now, I have to stick to using mass produced kits that everybody else has access to. Thanks for your insight.
Click to expand...

Way cool , good luck .
 
farmer said:
Rolandranch said:
farmer said:
Hi
I have thought pretty hard on how to word this to where I don't offend anyone hopefully .

I have made a few pool cues , nothing very original at all.
I can buy some very nice pre made forearms and trim rings .
Plus 5th turned shafts from cue maker supply houses and pre made inlayed but sleeves .
All of the parts can be the best money can buy . I could even have the supply house make me special for me custom parts ....

When that cue is done as in me assembling it, you will have at best a mid level custom cue made by a unknown cue maker.

HI end pool cue don't have massed produced production parts used in them .
If they did then anyone wanting to be a be hi end cue maker can go buy costly cue parts and become a high end cuemaker over night or the very first cue they make .

From my point of view if you want to make hi end pens then you need to be able to make most of the parts yourself .
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you. I am actually interested in designing and creating my own pen parts out of silver and other precious metals so that I can make the type of high-end pens that you are talking about that. But for now, I have to stick to using mass produced kits that everybody else has access to. Thanks for your insight.
Click to expand...

Way cool , good luck .
Click to expand...
I don't know what goes into making pool cues - but I would think that it is a much smaller market then pens. I know a lot more people who write than who play pool or billiards so I suspect it would be more difficult to break into the cue making market than the pen making market.
 
Markets

Smitty37 said:
farmer said:
Rolandranch said:
farmer said:
Hi
I have thought pretty hard on how to word this to where I don't offend anyone hopefully .

I have made a few pool cues , nothing very original at all.
I can buy some very nice pre made forearms and trim rings .
Plus 5th turned shafts from cue maker supply houses and pre made inlayed but sleeves .
All of the parts can be the best money can buy . I could even have the supply house make me special for me custom parts ....

When that cue is done as in me assembling it, you will have at best a mid level custom cue made by a unknown cue maker.

HI end pool cue don't have massed produced production parts used in them .
If they did then anyone wanting to be a be hi end cue maker can go buy costly cue parts and become a high end cuemaker over night or the very first cue they make .

From my point of view if you want to make hi end pens then you need to be able to make most of the parts yourself .
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you. I am actually interested in designing and creating my own pen parts out of silver and other precious metals so that I can make the type of high-end pens that you are talking about that. But for now, I have to stick to using mass produced kits that everybody else has access to. Thanks for your insight.
Click to expand...

Way cool , good luck .
Click to expand...
I don't know what goes into making pool cues - but I would think that it is a much smaller market then pens. I know a lot more people who write than who play pool or billiards so I suspect it would be more difficult to break into the cue making market than the pen making market.
Click to expand...



I always have a pool cue some one wants me to make and one for sale .... that's what I do ..

I make buy and sell custom pool cues and I collect hi end and collector pool cues .

I have zero interest in making , buying or selling custom pens .

What I learn in here I will incorporate in to the other products I make .
I don't mind sharing how I make some of my inlays or segmenting .
But honestly I don't like making pens , and I need to make one for my doctor .

I have 4 lathes and a large CNC router the keys to a complete machine shop and a pick up truck load of exotic woods .
I have all the custom orders I can handle at this time.

If that's helps you figure out why I am here .
And yes 100% I have a passion for turning wood and inlays ..
 
I wasn't wondering why you were here, you're welcome to be here for any reason as far as I'm concerned. You spoke about pool cues and I guess my comment was I would think it's entirely different market then the pen market.
farmer said:
Smitty37 said:
farmer said:
Rolandranch said:
farmer said:
Hi
I have thought pretty hard on how to word this to where I don't offend anyone hopefully .

I have made a few pool cues , nothing very original at all.
I can buy some very nice pre made forearms and trim rings .
Plus 5th turned shafts from cue maker supply houses and pre made inlayed but sleeves .
All of the parts can be the best money can buy . I could even have the supply house make me special for me custom parts ....

When that cue is done as in me assembling it, you will have at best a mid level custom cue made by a unknown cue maker.

HI end pool cue don't have massed produced production parts used in them .
If they did then anyone wanting to be a be hi end cue maker can go buy costly cue parts and become a high end cuemaker over night or the very first cue they make .

From my point of view if you want to make hi end pens then you need to be able to make most of the parts yourself .
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you. I am actually interested in designing and creating my own pen parts out of silver and other precious metals so that I can make the type of high-end pens that you are talking about that. But for now, I have to stick to using mass produced kits that everybody else has access to. Thanks for your insight.
Click to expand...

Way cool , good luck .
Click to expand...
I don't know what goes into making pool cues - but I would think that it is a much smaller market then pens. I know a lot more people who write than who play pool or billiards so I suspect it would be more difficult to break into the cue making market than the pen making market.
Click to expand...



I always have a pool cue some one wants me to make and one for sale .... that's what I do ..

I make buy and sell custom pool cues and I collect hi end and collector pool cues .

I have zero interest in making , buying or selling custom pens .

What I learn in here I will incorporate in to the other products I make .
I don't mind sharing how I make some of my inlays or segmenting .
But honestly I don't like making pens , and I need to make one for my doctor .

I have 4 lathes and a large CNC router the keys to a complete machine shop and a pick up truck load of exotic woods .
I have all the custom orders I can handle at this time.

If that's helps you figure out why I am here .
And yes 100% I have a passion for turning wood and inlays ..
Click to expand...
 
Marketing

Smitty37 said:
I wasn't wondering why you were here, you're welcome to be here for any reason as far as I'm concerned. You spoke about pool cues and I guess my comment was I would think it's entirely different market then the pen market.
farmer said:
Smitty37 said:
As of future buyers I would guess there are more people who use pens then pool cues ..

At the same time both are a dying breed , computers and computer games are taking the place of pool tables and pens ....

No one is going to make money in pool cues or pens if they decide to produce pens or pool cues and go into competition with China .

When I sold pool cues I didn't sell production pool cues .
Main reason is they warp faster then you can sell them and the factory doesn't honor their own warranty policy .
It was to much chance to have a cue fail later on down the road and end up with a unhappy customers.

I buy make sale and collect custom cues and HI end Collector cues .

There is a difference between hi priced collector cue and a HI end cue and a hi end collectors cue.

A collector cue can be a run of a mill cue that is hard to find anymore that has become high in demand .

I have a high end collector cue The cue maker is now famous and I got one of the first cues he made and the cue I have was a gift and when the cue was presented to the person as a gift it made front page news way back in the seventies .
This cue was made in the cuemakers grand fathers basement on a home made lathe ....
Shorty after this the cuemaker became one of the most famous custom hi end cue makers in the world .

The cue maker was in love with the gal he gave the cue to and I have the news paper clipping and all the love letters and the cue..

As of right now the cues value is somewhere close to 45K .
No matter what anyone thinks what a hi end pen or pool cue is , it the investor/ collector who makes that judgment.
I buy hi end pool cues for a investment to make money...
That leaves out 99% of all pool cues made with massed produced parts not even a consideration.



I find it funny that when I walk in a pool hall with my pool case and start pulling out pool cues someone will say I don't play good enough to own a cue that costs that much ..

The truth is I bought the cue because the cue will go up in value on the secondary market and I get paid to shoot with a nice cue .
Who cares how good or bad I shoot pool , I have nice cues and they are good enough investment that in the end I will get paid for using them ..

As in hi end investment pens where the pen will be sold in the future for more money then I paid for it.
I would only be interested in exotic wood Segmented pens that were not made from any pen kit as a investment pen or a pen that I planned on making money out of ...

I guess a collector cue will always have some kind of history .
A hi end cue will always be made to the highest degree of workmanship and materials .
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I have played pool on a couple of good tables but mostly on the undersized tables found in bars (including the bumper pool tables) and have never used anything but the (usually warped) house cues. My friend is not a great shooter but his favorite game seems to be 9 ball. I do think he has a table also, but I've never seen it. I have known a couple of guys that I think could shoot better than me if they were using axe handles as cues.
farmer said:
Smitty37 said:
I wasn't wondering why you were here, you're welcome to be here for any reason as far as I'm concerned. You spoke about pool cues and I guess my comment was I would think it's entirely different market then the pen market.
farmer said:
Smitty37 said:
As of future buyers I would guess there are more people who use pens then pool cues ..

At the same time both are a dying breed , computers and computer games are taking the place of pool tables and pens ....

No one is going to make money in pool cues or pens if they decide to produce pens or pool cues and go into competition with China .

When I sold pool cues I didn't sell production pool cues .
Main reason is they warp faster then you can sell them and the factory doesn't honor their own warranty policy .
It was to much chance to have a cue fail later on down the road and end up with a unhappy customers.

I buy make sale and collect custom cues and HI end Collector cues .

There is a difference between hi priced collector cue and a HI end cue and a hi end collectors cue.

A collector cue can be a run of a mill cue that is hard to find anymore that has become high in demand .

I have a high end collector cue The cue maker is now famous and I got one of the first cues he made and the cue I have was a gift and when the cue was presented to the person as a gift it made front page news way back in the seventies .
This cue was made in the cuemakers grand fathers basement on a home made lathe ....
Shorty after this the cuemaker became one of the most famous custom hi end cue makers in the world .

The cue maker was in love with the gal he gave the cue to and I have the news paper clipping and all the love letters and the cue..

As of right now the cues value is somewhere close to 45K .
No matter what anyone thinks what a hi end pen or pool cue is , it the investor/ collector who makes that judgment.
I buy hi end pool cues for a investment to make money...
That leaves out 99% of all pool cues made with massed produced parts not even a consideration.



I find it funny that when I walk in a pool hall with my pool case and start pulling out pool cues someone will say I don't play good enough to own a cue that costs that much ..

The truth is I bought the cue because the cue will go up in value on the secondary market and I get paid to shoot with a nice cue .
Who cares how good or bad I shoot pool , I have nice cues and they are good enough investment that in the end I will get paid for using them ..

As in hi end investment pens where the pen will be sold in the future for more money then I paid for it.
I would only be interested in exotic wood Segmented pens that were not made from any pen kit as a investment pen or a pen that I planned on making money out of ...

I guess a collector cue will always have some kind of history .
A hi end cue will always be made to the highest degree of workmanship and materials .
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You asked about marketing

Smitty37 said:
I have played pool on a couple of good tables but mostly on the undersized tables found in bars (including the bumper pool tables) and have never used anything but the (usually warped) house cues. My friend is not a great shooter but his favorite game seems to be 9 ball. I do think he has a table also, but I've never seen it. I have known a couple of guys that I think could shoot better than me if they were using axe handles as cues.
farmer said:
Smitty37 said:
Lets turn this subject back to what a High end pen is
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