Hello from NY

[Spydouble07]

Hi,

Around three weeks ago my 10 year old son wanted to make pens so I purchased a few kits (and a lathe, drill bits, bushings, sandpaper, polish, epoxy, pen mill, turning chisels, etc.) and dove right into it. Turned a sample in pine, then in maple, and finally, after two hours, finished a $49 fountain pen kit and a $15 mechanical pencil (attached) in cherry. As much as I enjoyed turning, for the first time ever, I quickly realized three things:

1) kits are expensive (you ALWAYS overpay for a kit compared to the same quality pen that can be purchased as a final product.
2) the quality of the parts are just... not. Plated parts made of zinc alloy, and if you're lucky, plated steel, are not really what I would consider quality. I've yet to find parts made of stainless steel (brushed or polished) and to my knowledge, it doesn't exist. As far as the mechanism goes, my Pental Graphgear 1000, which now sells on Amazon.com for $10.80 is by far of much better quality than the $15 kit with the Schmitt mechanism.
3) kits are limited to someone else's design.

As much as this may sound like a rant, it is just my opinion, and I do understand the appeal of kits for some or most people, just not for me. So I immediately started researching how to make pens without a kit and learned that I would need the following:

1) lathe (preferably a metal lather)
2) taps and dies of varies sizes (preferably triple lead or triple start for the cap)
3) collet set
4) a die and tap holder, and a Jacobs chuck
5) material
6) mechanism, nib, etc.

1) I have a Taig metal lathe
2) I purchased a bunch of different sizes of taps and dies (skipped the triple lead for now), including some extremely hard to find hand chasers
3) My ER16 headstock accepts collets only to size 3/8" so I had to purchase a new headstock that has a 3/4" 16 thread spindle and would accept the PSI collet set with their included adapter.
4) The holder I have only accepts a 13/16" and 1" die holder, so I had to make an adapter (my first metal lathe part - took around 8 hours) that would accept a 1-1/2" die (photo attached). The other side of the holder accepts an Irwin tap holder. My Jacobs chuck accepts only to 1/4" so I had to purchase a larger one that would accept to 1/2".
5) I have a bunch of cherry, and purchased clear acrylic rods (for prototyping, but it may also be cool to make transparent pens) and ebonite in various sizes.
6) Purchased a Jowo #5 nib and converter for fountain pen.

I would love to be able to make every single part, including the mechanism, nib, feed, clip, etc. from scratch. Wish me luck, better yet, please share advice and how to.

Thank you,
Charles

 

[howsitwork]

Charles

I wish you luck. Plenty of good reading on this site for what you want to do but I am not qualified to say what is more valuable and what is not. There are some very skilful artisans on here who will no doibt comment.

As for costs, put it this way, if I had to figure in my time , at my hourly rate etc then it's outside my limit ! Cannot speak for others but I do this to relax and for enjoyment ( everytime I have to repair a mistake I remind myself of that mantra ).

The joy of making and gifting something is what motivates me. I have. 9ntributed in the past to " the British bowl mountain " as a carving friend put it to me. He then tried making a bowl and , guess what , he's joined us and is also addicted to it .

If making from parts to your own design lights your candle then that's great .

stay safe and every success

 

[tomtedesco]

I don't have the knowledge you need other than to say welcome from Colorado.

 

[Spydouble07]

Thank you, Howsitwork. You are right that from a commercial perspective it is not worth to make everything from scratch, and I can attest to that given that it took me around 8 hours (maybe only 6) to make a die holder that can be purchased for around $30. I had fun and it was a great learning experience. I would also not be interested in producing this part on a regular basis (at least not with my Taig mini lathe). I just love making stuff, especially of high quality, and I am frustrated how difficult it is to find high quality products these days. I love my Lamy 2000 because of its high quality. A $500 Ferragamo belt is made of a $3 zinc alloy plated buckle that will scratch up easily beyond repair (try polishing it ) and a $5 nicely stitched, yet thin belt that could barely holster a key fab, and yet people buy it. I don't know if it's because of a lack of knowledge or something else. For me, I made my own belt buckle out of stainless steel, and belt out of thick English bridle leather. It also looks great. As far as making pens goes, I find it similar to art. You can paint by number (pen kit) or from scratch (kitless). If I design a pen that I like and want to sell, I would most likely find a manufacturer that can produce it and I will continue to tinker and prototype, and maybe try bowl turning next.

 

[Spydouble07]

I don't have the knowledge you need other than to say welcome from Colorado.

Thank you, Tomtedesco.

 

[Bats]

Around three weeks ago my 10 year old son wanted to make pens so I purchased a few kits (and a lathe, drill bits, bushings, sandpaper, polish, epoxy, pen mill, turning chisels, etc.) and dove right into it.

Wow... when I was 10 I had trouble convincing my father to buy a model plane kit to build with me, never mind power tools. I'm jealous.

Is it too late to be adopted?

2) the quality of the parts are just... not. Plated parts made of zinc alloy, and if you're lucky, plated steel, are not really what I would consider quality.

I believe they're mostly plated brass, but that's nitpicking - otherwise, I agree completely.

I've yet to find parts made of stainless steel (brushed or polished) and to my knowledge, it doesn't exist.

LazerLinez.com offers (offered?) a whole line of nice, domestically made, solid stainless kits, but they seem to have been entirely sold out for some time now. Also, if you want to get really fancy, there's SilverPenParts.com, who sell (as you'd never guess from the name) sterling silver kits and individual pieces. From the major vendors, though, no, there aren't a lot of options. PSI's "EDC" series (DuraClick and Anvil, offhand) do offer some stainless, solid brass, and anodized T6 6061 aluminum versions if you like knurling, but they aren't what you'd call "elegant" designs.

As far as the mechanism goes, my Pental Graphgear 1000, which now sells on Amazon.com for $10.80 is by far of much better quality than the $15 kit with the Schmitt mechanism.

I'm actually quite fond of the EDC Duraclick pencil kit (which may be the one you're thinking of) - possibly because it's one of the only reasonably decent and reliable pencil kits I've found... but in general, pencil kits seem to be horribly disappointing in quality. On the Pentel front, though, there are a few different methods (some of which can be found in the library) of making wooden pencils with the mechanism from the Pentel p205/p207/p209 - although I've never been very happy with the clip options.

I would love to be able to make every single part, including the mechanism, nib, feed, clip, etc. from scratch. Wish me luck, better yet, please share advice and how to.

I'm a little (lot) short on experience in that realm. I've made a few mostly-kitless ballpoints on the metal lathe (out of a mixture of steel, aluminum, and wood, with the refills, mechanisms, and clips - which I have yet to nail down a process for fabricating - stolen from slimlines), but lately I've been too lazy and sticking to kits - although I keep meaning to give it another shot.

While I've seen a lot of amazing work from people around here, though, I don't think I've ever seen anyone make their own mechanism or nib.

(but I bet someone's about to prove me wrong)

In any case, I look forward to seeing what you come up with - it looks like you're on the fast track to some interesting work.

 

[Spydouble07]

Wow... when I was 10 I had trouble convincing my father to buy a model plane kit to build with me, never mind power tools. I'm jealous.

Is it too late to be adopted? I have 2 rules: 1) No lying, and 2) Respect! I'm kinda old fashioned that way


I believe they're mostly plated brass, but that's nitpicking - otherwise, I agree completely. Brass is actually a step up...


LazerLinez.com offers (offered?) a whole line of nice, domestically made, solid stainless kits, but they seem to have been entirely sold out for some time now. Also, if you want to get really fancy, there's SilverPenParts.com, who sell (as you'd never guess from the name) sterling silver kits and individual pieces. From the major vendors, though, no, there aren't a lot of options. PSI's "EDC" series (DuraClick and Anvil, offhand) do offer some stainless, solid brass, and anodized T6 6061 aluminum versions if you like knurling, but they aren't what you'd call "elegant" designs. See attached photo, that's what I actually made (the aluminum version) I forgot they have a stainless version as well. Either way, I had to work on it for a while as it got jammed. I never had that problem with my Pental. Also, the Pental's clutch mechanism is much more refined as it releases only a tiny bit of lead with each click.


I'm actually quite fond of the EDC Duraclick pencil kit (which may be the one you're thinking of) - possibly because it's one of the only reasonably decent and reliable pencil kits I've found... but in general, pencil kits seem to be horribly disappointing in quality. On the Pentel front, though, there are a few different methods (some of which can be found in the library) of making wooden pencils with the mechanism from the Pentel p205/p207/p209 - although I've never been very happy with the clip options. Okay, you gave me something to experiment. Don't like the clip either. May find an alternative.


I'm a little (lot) short on experience in that realm. I've made a few mostly-kitless ballpoints on the metal lathe (out of a mixture of steel, aluminum, and wood, with the refills, mechanisms, and clips - which I have yet to nail down a process for fabricating - stolen from slimlines), but lately I've been too lazy and sticking to kits - although I keep meaning to give it another shot. Sometimes you just want to relax and not have to plan and think, and color by number (kits) seems to be the solution. I would imagine that most people like the turning part more than the engineering and planning.

While I've seen a lot of amazing work from people around here, though, I don't think I've ever seen anyone make their own mechanism or nib.

(but I bet someone's about to prove me wrong) I would rather try and fail than fail to try!

In any case, I look forward to seeing what you come up with - it looks like you're on the fast track to some interesting work. Still considering adaption?

 

[magpens]

Hi there, Charles !! . Welcome to IAP !! .

Welcome to your son also.

Interesting to read the thoughts you expressed. . . Kits do have their place. . . But they also have limitations as you pointed out.
A lot of people do some of both.

Can't touch on every subject you raised but you did mention stainless steel pen kits.
There are (or were) some quite readily available and if you dig deeply enough you will encounter them.
One company that sold them was .... lazerlinez.com .... but they seem to have gone out of those products now.

 

[Bats]

I have 2 rules: 1) No lying, and 2) Respect! I'm kinda old fashioned that way

Um... but what if I lie about respecting you?

See attached photo, that's what I actually made (the aluminum version) I forgot they have a stainless version as well. Either way, I had to work on it for a while as it got jammed. I never had that problem with my Pental. Also, the Pental's clutch mechanism is much more refined as it releases only a tiny bit of lead with each click.

Ok, looks like you've got the Anvil, which I haven't tried. Based on the pictures I could find, it looks like it may have a different mechanism than the Duraclick. I've only made a few of those, but one has been living in my pocket for the past six months without any problems, and I have yet to hear any complaints about the gifts (although that may just mean people are being too damn polite). My only complaints are that the big erasers it uses are hard to find replacements for, and that it's only available in a .07mm and not a .05mm. And that there aren't some less "industrial" looking versions available too.

Sometimes you just want to relax and not have to plan and think, and color by number (kits) seems to be the solution. I would imagine that most people like the turning part more than the engineering and planning.

It really varies for me. I've got a small machine shop (well, a small knee mill and a 10" metal lathe) and a CNC router, so I've done my share of design and engineering, but, yeah, that's a good way to put it - for some reason lately my brain has been very much in a paint-by-numbers mode (even if I do try to occasionally break out of it with some segmenting work).

Looking at your pictures, though, reminds me that I still really need to make a tailstock die holder of my own... not that my current die collection extends large enough for kitless pen work.

Still considering adaption?

What, you think I'm just practicing my respect?

I'm not sure how your 10y/o is going to feel about a new brother who's old enough to be his father, though (and then some - I think my younger brother's first kid is old enough to drink now).

 

[PaulWitmer]

Hi Charles:

Welcome to the IAP from Barrie ON. I also don't have the knowledge to address your concern. I use mostly kits and some kit-less ones as well.

Paul

 

[Spydouble07]

Hi there, Charles !! . Welcome to IAP !! .

Welcome to your son also.

Interesting to read the thoughts you expressed. . . Kits do have their place. . . But they also have limitations as you pointed out.
A lot of people do some of both.

Can't touch on every subject you raised but you did mention stainless steel pen kits.
There are (or were) some quite readily available and if you dig deeply enough you will encounter them.
One company that sold them was .... lazerlinez.com .... but they seem to have gone out of those products now.

Thank you, Magpens.

Bats also mentioned lazerlines.com. Will have to look out for other suppliers.

 

[Spydouble07]

Um... but what if I lie about respecting you? Emphasis on not being disrespectful. Hard to lie there.


Ok, looks like you've got the Anvil, which I haven't tried. Based on the pictures I could find, it looks like it may have a different mechanism than the Duraclick. I've only made a few of those, but one has been living in my pocket for the past six months without any problems, and I have yet to hear any complaints about the gifts (although that may just mean people are being too damn polite). I hate it when people are polite at the wrong things, as I for one would appreciate (okay, maybe not ) some constructive criticism and feedback. My only complaints are that the big erasers it uses are hard to find replacements for, and that it's only available in a .07mm and not a .05mm. And that there aren't some less "industrial" looking versions available too. You just reminded me what else it was bothering me, the unavailability of 0.5mm.


It really varies for me. I've got a small machine shop (well, a small knee mill and a 10" metal lathe) and a CNC router, so I've done my share of design and engineering, but, yeah, that's a good way to put it - for some reason lately my brain has been very much in a paint-by-numbers mode (even if I do try to occasionally break out of it with some segmenting work). Yes, segmenting! Ought to try that. Think my band saw would suffice or would I have to invest in a table saw?

Looking at your pictures, though, reminds me that I still really need to make a tailstock die holder of my own... not that my current die collection extends large enough for kitless pen work. See, now you can kill a couple of hours (I'm afraid with your lathe it will only take an hour or so, in that case, make a few different sizes, better yet, your own die)


What, you think I'm just practicing my respect? You're getting there.

I'm not sure how your 10y/o is going to feel about a new brother who's old enough to be his father, though (and then some - I think my younger brother's first kid is old enough to drink now). He's already sandwiched between two brothers.

 

[Spydouble07]

Hi Charles:

Welcome to the IAP from Barrie ON. I also don't have the knowledge to address your concern. I use mostly kits and some kit-less ones as well.

Paul

Thank you, Paul. I love that pen on your profile. Got to learn how to make something like that. Barrie Ontario, drove up to Toronto once, closest I've been.

 

[Bats]

You just reminded me what else it was bothering me, the unavailability of 0.5mm.

There are a few 0.5mm options out there... sort of. But only a few.
I know the Perfect Fit series of pen kits can take a Schmidt DSM 2006 pencil mechanism (0.5, 0.7 or 0.9) to convert it. It looks like the El Grande can be converted the same way, and Bear Tooth Woods also offers a Cigar Pencil kit, which seems to use the same mechanism.

Otherwise it's back to converting a Pentel p205. One obligatory note on that... there are a couple different ways of converting them. Most involve either doing some fairly precise depth drilling, or using a special step drill. The alternative uses an extra long 7mm pen tube and a turned down slimline finial at the tip (or I just turned my own from a bit of 12L14 steel), which makes the whole thing stronger & helps prevent blowouts while turning, but also means you'll never get a perfect transition between the Pentel nib and the wooden body. Some people seem to deal with it by putting an exaggerated bump at the front end. I tried to get things as close as possible, and it's frustrated me ever since.

Yes, segmenting! Ought to try that.

If you like planning out complicated constructions, you'll love segmenting. If you're not the sort who can just visualize how things will turn out once they're turned down (I'm not), I often try out builds in 3D CAD software (I use Autodesk Fusion 360, which is free - but increasingly crippled - for hobbyists) before trying to actually make them.

Think my band saw would suffice or would I have to invest in a table saw?

If you're going to adopt me, I'm going to recommend getting a really, really expensive tablesaw

Getting at my tablesaw involves pulling cars out of the garage and then hauling it out into the driveway, though, so I generally stick to my bandsaw - although it works better for some cuts than others (it has a crooked fence, so I'm limited to things I can do freehand or based around the miter gauge). It probably comes down to what sort of segmenting you're trying to do, how reliably you can get your bandsaw tuned, and how clever you are with jig design. And some designs you wouldn't even want to try on a tablesaw. This was a pair I made a couple years back - one Patrizio from a kit, the other entirely from scratch:

(you can tell which is which from the clips. the blanks were made on a scroll saw, but a bandsaw should work just as well. possibly better)

 

[Spydouble07]

There are a few 0.5mm options out there... sort of. But only a few.
I know the Perfect Fit series of pen kits can take a Schmidt DSM 2006 pencil mechanism (0.5, 0.7 or 0.9) to convert it. It looks like the El Grande can be converted the same way, and Bear Tooth Woods also offers a Cigar Pencil kit, which seems to use the same mechanism.

Otherwise it's back to converting a Pentel p205. One obligatory note on that... there are a couple different ways of converting them. Most involve either doing some fairly precise depth drilling, or using a special step drill. The alternative uses an extra long 7mm pen tube and a turned down slimline finial at the tip (or I just turned my own from a bit of 12L14 steel), which makes the whole thing stronger & helps prevent blowouts while turning, but also means you'll never get a perfect transition between the Pentel nib and the wooden body. Some people seem to deal with it by putting an exaggerated bump at the front end. I tried to get things as close as possible, and it's frustrated me ever since.

Okay, you gave me an idea of converting some of my pens and pencils.

If you like planning out complicated constructions, you'll love segmenting. If you're not the sort who can just visualize how things will turn out once they're turned down (I'm not), I often try out builds in 3D CAD software (I use Autodesk Fusion 360, which is free - but increasingly crippled - for hobbyists) before trying to actually make them.


If you're going to adopt me, I'm going to recommend getting a really, really expensive tablesaw

This is what I have in mind https://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/tablesaw5.html (not that expensive though, but would also solve your next dilemma)

Getting at my tablesaw involves pulling cars out of the garage and then hauling it out into the driveway, though, so I generally stick to my bandsaw - although it works better for some cuts than others (it has a crooked fence, so I'm limited to things I can do freehand or based around the miter gauge). It probably comes down to what sort of segmenting you're trying to do, how reliably you can get your bandsaw tuned, and how clever you are with jig design. And some designs you wouldn't even want to try on a tablesaw. This was a pair I made a couple years back - one Patrizio from a kit, the other entirely from scratch:

View attachment 312124
(you can tell which is which from the clips. the blanks were made on a scroll saw, but a bandsaw should work just as well. possibly better)

I like what you have done with these pens. Maple? What is the black made of? I feel very ignorant in the segmenting department and will stop asking questions Back to the questions, stainless clip? Made from scratch?

 

[Bats]

Okay, you gave me an idea of converting some of my pens and pencils.

Some are decidedly easier than others. The nice thing about the p20x series - and the reason so many people latched onto it - is that the stock body is just a tube, so aside from a little fiddly drilling by the tip, there isn't a lot of engineering involved in making something that'll functionally replace it. If you've got an assortment kicking around, though, it could definitely be worth taking a peek at how some of the others go together.

This is what I have in mind https://www.byrnesmodelmachines.com/tablesaw5.html (not that expensive though, but would also solve your next dilemma)

Ooo... I've looked at those before. They sound awfully nice, and they're small enough that I might almost be able to find somewhere to put one. It doesn't quite lend itself to larger projects in the same way a contractor saw might, but for small work like pens (and segmented pens especially) they sound ideal. The lack of a tilting arbor means the tilting table accessory is probably a must, though, and that sliding table looks tempting too, and by then the total is really starting to add up.

I like what you have done with these pens. Maple? What is the black made of?

Yep, maple, with some sort of dyed black veneer for the swirly bits (maybe poplar?) and the section & finial are both ebony.

I feel very ignorant in the segmenting department and will stop asking questions

Ask away - although my knowledge is strictly limited (especially compared to some of the talent around here). In this case, it's a dead simple pattern, but I really like the way it comes out. Just cut the blank in two lengthwise along a squiggly line & glue it back together with the veneer in between. Then rotate 90° and cut a different squiggle down the previously-uncut side, and treat it the same way. And of course you can do multiple cuts on each side, too, and/or use multiple veneer colors.

Back to the questions, stainless clip? Made from scratch?

Yes, made entirely from scratch, but the clip was the one part I was entirely unsatisfied with. I used some mystery-grade ~.035" stainless sheet I had kicking around, drilled the hole, rough cut everything with a dremel, finished up with files and sandpaper, then bent it around a block of maple.

It more or less looks like a pen clip (if not a very refined one), but it's too soft to actually be used as one, and I didn't know my metals well enough (especially without knowing exactly what it is) to guess whether trying to heat treat it would help the issue, or just make it brittle. I've since found better suggestions (@Ironwood did a writeup last year of his technique using hose clamps, there's another in the library from @smoky73 that uses nickel silver, and I've also seen argentium mentioned), but, not having made another kitless since, I have yet to take another swing at it.

Also worth mentioning is this article on making laminated wood pen clips, although it's not really the direction I wanted to go.

 

[Spydouble07]

Some are decidedly easier than others. The nice thing about the p20x series - and the reason so many people latched onto it - is that the stock body is just a tube, so aside from a little fiddly drilling by the tip, there isn't a lot of engineering involved in making something that'll functionally replace it. If you've got an assortment kicking around, though, it could definitely be worth taking a peek at how some of the others go together.

Still trying to disassemble a Graphgear 500 barrel from the mechanism without breaking it.

Ooo... I've looked at those before. They sound awfully nice, and they're small enough that I might almost be able to find somewhere to put one. It doesn't quite lend itself to larger projects in the same way a contractor saw might, but for small work like pens (and segmented pens especially) they sound ideal. The lack of a tilting arbor means the tilting table accessory is probably a must, though, and that sliding table looks tempting too, and by then the total is really starting to add up.

I have a circular saw for the occasional large cut. I'm not really planning on building cabinets anytime, plus I think I would enjoy the smaller footprint.

Yep, maple, with some sort of dyed black veneer for the swirly bits (maybe poplar?) and the section & finial are both ebony.


Ask away - although my knowledge is strictly limited (especially compared to some of the talent around here). In this case, it's a dead simple pattern, but I really like the way it comes out. Just cut the blank in two lengthwise along a squiggly line & glue it back together with the veneer in between. Then rotate 90° and cut a different squiggle down the previously-uncut side, and treat it the same way. And of course you can do multiple cuts on each side, too, and/or use multiple veneer colors.

I'll experiment with that.

View attachment 312126

Yes, made entirely from scratch, but the clip was the one part I was entirely unsatisfied with. I used some mystery-grade ~.035" stainless sheet I had kicking around, drilled the hole, rough cut everything with a dremel, finished up with files and sandpaper, then bent it around a block of maple.

View attachment 312127View attachment 312167

It more or less looks like a pen clip (if not a very refined one), but it's too soft to actually be used as one, and I didn't know my metals well enough (especially without knowing exactly what it is) to guess whether trying to heat treat it would help the issue, or just make it brittle. I've since found better suggestions (@Ironwood did a writeup last year of his technique using hose clamps, there's another in the library from @smoky73 that uses nickel silver, and I've also seen argentium mentioned), but, not having made another kitless since, I have yet to take another swing at it.

You have to use spring steel (stainless steel 300 (3/4 or full hard) series or 17-7 (requires heat treating but comes in annealed and is easy to work with). The other option is to use a thicker stainless steel and load it up with a spring mechanism, similar to the Lamy 2000.

Also worth mentioning is this article on making laminated wood pen clips, although it's not really the direction I wanted to go.

 

[egnald]

Greetings from Nebraska and welcome to the IAP community. I am sure you will find other members that are devoted to making bespoke pens (i.e. kit-less) as well.

I understand where you are coming from as far as the cost and quality of the kits that are available, as the pens I make are exclusively from kits, some with modifications. I just don't have the skill or the equipment to do bespoke work, but it sure looks like fun considering what others have produced. The closest thing I can come to turning a kit into something with elevated value is to use rare blank materials or blanks that have a story behind them. For example, the tech style pens made using Lignum Vitae that was salvaged from the aft propeller tube bushings on the Delos Phos ship, or the pens I made from Oak that was salvaged from the highchair that belonged to both of my sons when they were infants.

I wish you the best of luck in your continuing venture into pen making and I look forward to seeing your work.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Spydouble07]

Greetings from Nebraska and welcome to the IAP community. I am sure you will find other members that are devoted to making bespoke pens (i.e. kit-less) as well.

I understand where you are coming from as far as the cost and quality of the kits that are available, as the pens I make are exclusively from kits, some with modifications. I just don't have the skill or the equipment to do bespoke work, but it sure looks like fun considering what others have produced. The closest thing I can come to turning a kit into something with elevated value is to use rare blank materials or blanks that have a story behind them. For example, the tech style pens made using Lignum Vitae that was salvaged from the aft propeller tube bushings on the Delos Phos ship, or the pens I made from Oak that was salvaged from the highchair that belonged to both of my sons when they were infants.

That's also what I'd like to do, find and make interesting materials and patterns.

I wish you the best of luck in your continuing venture into pen making and I look forward to seeing your work.

Regards,
Dave

Thank you, Dave.

See attached, today's work. Lots of learning yet to master. Note to self: acrylic can shatter when shaping freehand . Should use the metal large for shaping as well. Also, acrylic melts when drilled

 

[Spydouble07]

That's also what I'd like to do, find and make interesting materials and patterns.

Thank you, Dave.

See attached, today's work. Lots of learning yet to master. Note to self: acrylic can shatter when shaping freehand . Should use the metal large for shaping as well. Also, acrylic melts when drilled

FYI this is a prototype (rather an experiment) in progress. I like the idea of the transparent acrylic so I can see what I'm doing, just don't like working with it.

 

[Bats]

One thing to watch out for with the clear acrylic rods: I've never turned any of it myself, but from some CNC machining I did a few years back, I remember there being dramatic differences in machinability between cast and extruded acrylics, and rods could potentially be either. If you're getting them from a pen supplier, you're almost certainly getting cast - which is good - but otherwise you could end up with extruded - which tends to be a mess.

As for the melting, yeah. I've never done any acrylic deep drilling like pens require, but for shallower drilling I found coolant and low RPMs were my friends (water works, but it's probably not such a great idea if you're drilling on the lathe - I also used isopropyl alcohol or WD40) . I know there are also specially ground bits made for drilling acrylics, but I don't know if they make as much of a difference for deep holes as for sheet work.

(Also, you're going way too fast on all of this, and it's making me feel like I'm not experimenting enough anymore. Stop it! *pout*)

 

[Spydouble07]

One thing to watch out for with the clear acrylic rods: I've never turned any of it myself, but from some CNC machining I did a few years back, I remember there being dramatic differences in machinability between cast and extruded acrylics, and rods could potentially be either. If you're getting them from a pen supplier, you're almost certainly getting cast - which is good - but otherwise you could end up with extruded - which tends to be a mess.

I realized after ordering that that were two options to select, the extruded being a lot cheaper, of course.

As for the melting, yeah. I've never done any acrylic deep drilling like pens require, but for shallower drilling I found coolant and low RPMs were my friends (water works, but it's probably not such a great idea if you're drilling on the lathe - I also used isopropyl alcohol or WD40) . I know there are also specially ground bits made for drilling acrylics, but I don't know if they make as much of a difference for deep holes as for sheet work.

Tried some oil (maybe too little) didn't want to use water for obvious reasons, which leaves me with alcohol and WD40. Also, my lathe spins at 525 at its lowest setting.

(Also, you're going way too fast on all of this, and it's making me feel like I'm not experimenting enough anymore. Stop it! *pout*)

I slowed down today, see attached . I made this CAD drawing so I can start working on some ebonite/wood.

 

[Bats]

I realized after ordering that that were two options to select, the extruded being a lot cheaper, of course.

Oops! Yeah, that could make a difference. I think the extruded is supposed to have a lower melting point and be thermoformable, both of which could make life interesting when doing precision machining.

Also, my lathe spins at 525 at its lowest setting.

So "slow" may not be an easy option... There's a chance you could get away with starting with a small bit and drilling up in steps (although my luck with that has varied wildly from one material to another). Another option would be dispensing with the drill bit altogether and doing it with a boring bar.

I slowed down today, see attached . I made this CAD drawing so I can start working on some ebonite/wood.

One question... I notice you've got a nice curve to the body in your drawing. Have you come up with a clever way to do that on a metal lathe? Or are you planning on doing the drilling/threading/etc on the metal lathe and shape the body on the wood lathe? I ask because large radii on a metal lathe is a trick I still haven't figured out, but have always been curious about.

 

[Spydouble07]

Oops! Yeah, that could make a difference. I think the extruded is supposed to have a lower melting point and be thermoformable, both of which could make life interesting when doing precision machining.


So "slow" may not be an easy option... There's a chance you could get away with starting with a small bit and drilling up in steps (although my luck with that has varied wildly from one material to another). Another option would be dispensing with the drill bit altogether and doing it with a boring bar.

Would have to get a keyless chuck for that. Boring bar sounds like something I'd like to try.

One question... I notice you've got a nice curve to the body in your drawing. Have you come up with a clever way to do that on a metal lathe? Or are you planning on doing the drilling/threading/etc on the metal lathe and shape the body on the wood lathe? I ask because large radii on a metal lathe is a trick I still haven't figured out, but have always been curious about.

I haven't yet decided. I could try finishing on the wood lathe. I also have a tool rest for the metal lathe. A compound tool post can also help. Putting a radius on the tool is also an option. There's also a radius turning tool, which I don't have.

 

[Bats]

Would have to get a keyless chuck for that.

What, not a fan of getting out the key a dozen times per hole?

(my CNC'd Taig - which I've never actually used - came with a gen-yoo-wine Jacobs keyless chuck... other than my hand drill, it's the only keyless chuck I own. I spend lots of time swearing at chuck keys)

Boring bar sounds like something I'd like to try.

I think I've seen square-shank boring bars made to fit the Taig tool holders - although I don't know what diameter hole they'll fit into. If that doesn't do it, a boring bar holder would probably be a quicker project than a die holder.

I haven't yet decided. I could try finishing on the wood lathe. I also have a tool rest for the metal lathe. A compound tool post can also help.

I hadn't seen the Taig tool rest before (and here I thought I'd looked through all the goodies). There's a chance I'm going to be moving somewhere considerably more cramped in the near future, and I've been tossing around ideas for sizing-down my pen turning operation. I hadn't thought about making the Taig part of it, but that might actually make sense.

Putting a radius on the tool is also an option. There's also a radius turning tool, which I don't have.

I've got a ball-turning rig for my big(er) 10" South Bend metal lathe (although it's still waiting for me to design an adapter that'll let me mount it - it was designed for a bigger-still lathe), but even that can't do anything larger than a 2.5" radius - which is suitable for a lot of things, but would make for a pretty abrupt bulge on a pen barrel (not that I haven't seen a few pens like that around here, but I don't think it was quite what either of us had in mind - I was thinking the curve on your drawing looked like several times that). I don't think the design could be scaled up much, either (and it's a pretty hefty bit of cast iron as it is) without needing a true monster of a lathe to have the swing to... err... swing it.

 

[Spydouble07]

What, not a fan of getting out the key a dozen times per hole?

(my CNC'd Taig - which I've never actually used

What a waste… I can help you get rid of it. .

- came with a gen-yoo-wine Jacobs keyless chuck... other than my hand drill, it's the only keyless chuck I own. I spend lots of time swearing at chuck keys)


I think I've seen square-shank boring bars made to fit the Taig tool holders - although I don't know what diameter hole they'll fit into. If that doesn't do it, a boring bar holder would probably be a quicker project than a die holder.

Good idea for an upcoming project.

I hadn't seen the Taig tool rest before (and here I thought I'd looked through all the goodies). There's a chance I'm going to be moving somewhere considerably more cramped in the near future, and I've been tossing around ideas for sizing-down my pen turning operation. I hadn't thought about making the Taig part of it, but that might actually make sense.


I've got a ball-turning rig for my big(er) 10" South Bend metal lathe (although it's still waiting for me to design an adapter that'll let me mount it - it was designed for a bigger-still lathe), but even that can't do anything larger than a 2.5" radius - which is suitable for a lot of things, but would make for a pretty abrupt bulge on a pen barrel (not that I haven't seen a few pens like that around here, but I don't think it was quite what either of us had in mind - I was thinking the curve on your drawing looked like several times that). I don't think the design could be scaled up much, either (and it's a pretty hefty bit of cast iron as it is) without needing a true monster of a lathe to have the swing to... err... swing it.

See attached tool rest. A bit cramped, but it works.

 

[Bats]

What a waste… I can help you get rid of it. .

I feel bad about it every time I use the workbench it's sitting on. I picked it up without having any clear purpose in mind for it - but it was $55 on Craigslist, which I couldn't possibly pass up, even if it's a pretty hacky sort of DIY CNC - and I don't even pretend to understand the combined power supply/control hardware packed into an old mid-tower case. I bypassed the whole thing and wired the steppers to a surplus GRBL control board, only to realize I hadn't really wrapped my head around modeling for CNC lathery. Then I promptly got distracted by another project.

See attached tool rest. A bit cramped, but it works.

Interesting. Somehow I was thinking it would attach to the compound, but I suppose this makes more sense.

And is that a leadscrew I see? That definitely isn't something I've seen in the usual catalogs.

 

[Spydouble07]

I feel bad about it every time I use the workbench it's sitting on. I picked it up without having any clear purpose in mind for it - but it was $55 on Craigslist,

Okay, I will have to wait until someone else decides to sell it for that price

which I couldn't possibly pass up, even if it's a pretty hacky sort of DIY CNC - and I don't even pretend to understand the combined power supply/control hardware packed into an old mid-tower case. I bypassed the whole thing and wired the steppers to a surplus GRBL control board, only to realize I hadn't really wrapped my head around modeling for CNC lathery. Then I promptly got distracted by another project.

Interesting. Somehow I was thinking it would attach to the compound, but I suppose this makes more sense.

And is that a leadscrew I see? That definitely isn't something I've seen in the usual catalogs.

The lead-screw is only for the power feed. Making a gear set is yet another project to tackle, if ever.

 

[Bats]

The lead-screw is only for the power feed. Making a gear set is yet another project to tackle, if ever.

Is that stock on some of them? Mine just has a rack & pinion, and I don't even see where a leadscrew would mount.

Of course, I suppose a power feed is a little redundant with CNC, but it was still curious to see it.

 

[Spydouble07]

Is that stock on some of them? Mine just has a rack & pinion, and I don't even see where a leadscrew would mount.

Of course, I suppose a power feed is a little redundant with CNC, but it was still curious to see it.

It's an upgrade.