Heartful Prayers to those in Texas

[jttheclockman]

Just had to post something after watching in disbelief of what has happened in Uvalde Texas and all those innocent kids. My thoughts and prayers go out to the familys of those whose lives have been changed forever because of a senseless act of one. It is not only the familys of the deceased but the trauma the other students now have to live with. I know this forum reaches many from around the world and if there are any members here that this effects directly, I am sorry for your loss. My deepest condolences go out to those familys. May the Good Lord watch over them in this dire time of need.

 

[randyrls]

Unfortunately and sadly, this will not be the first nor the last. Until we have effective gun controls this will continue to occur over, and over, and over, and over........

Canada had a mass shooting, passed effective gun controls. Be like Canada!

 

[papaturner]

Prayers and condolence to all !

 

[tgsponge1]

Prayers to all involved. Especially the grieving parents

 

[WriteON]

Unfortunately and sadly, this will not be the first nor the last. Until we have effective gun controls this will continue to occur over, and over, and over, and over........

Canada had a mass shooting, passed effective gun controls. Be like Canada!

As I grew up this did not happen. The younger generation has to sort this out. Aside from too many guns and mental cases there is too much hate/anger. Over what?

 

[Arnold]

As I grew up I and all my friends had firearms and we never thought about shooting anyone...Guns are not the problem so what is???

 

[TellicoTurning]

As I grew up I and all my friends had firearms and we never thought about shooting anyone...Guns are not the problem so what is???

We played cowboys and indians, PRETEND shooting each other and never once considered using a real gun. In High school often those who had trucks also had a gun rack in the back window with a rifle or shotgun on the rack... never once did anyone think to get their gun to settle some imagined slight or insult..... we rarely even had fights on the school ground.

I'm of the opinion that there should be a 60 or 90 day wait period to buy a gun... if you want one, you'll still want it after the wait time. That will give the ATF time to really check out a buyer.... and if they want an assault rifle, give them one, in the army, marine corp or national guard where it can be kept under lock and key until you need it to defend against an assault on America.

I'm not anti-gun as there are too many out there to ever control them, but in my opinion which is mine alone, most are mis-reading the 2nd amendment.

 

[DrD]

I had to log in for this. I cried my eyes out last evening and prayed to God asking His peace for all involved.

I really hate it when someone takes a tragedy and turns it into a political event, especially if that someone isn't even a citizen of the United States of America! Evil exists in this world; now maybe more so than in the past - but I don't think so. Evil IS NOT overcome by writing some "magical" law. Evil is overcome with righteous force. The last thing we need is to have some non-citizen trying to enforce their beliefs, wishes, desires on us, especially when they are NOT the answer. The answer is to station well-armed retired Seals, Green Berets, Marine Recon, Air Force Special Ops, and the like in every school in America. Pay them with tax breaks or the like. If we can spend $40B on Ukraine we can do this. And what would be their role in the schools? Disarm by whatever means necessary every so and so who comes into the school toting a gun. Put metal detectors at every entrance. Limit number of entrances during school hours. Use 2 door interlock systems at active entrances. There are any number of things which can be done without trampling all over our Constitution. BUT right now, just pray for all those involved!

 

[WriteON]

I had to log in for this. I cried my eyes out last evening and prayed to God asking His peace for all involved.

I really hate it when someone takes a tragedy and turns it into a political event, especially if that someone isn't even a citizen of the United States of America! Evil exists in this world; now maybe more so than in the past - but I don't think so. Evil IS NOT overcome by writing some "magical" law. Evil is overcome with righteous force. The last thing we need is to have some non-citizen trying to enforce their beliefs, wishes, desires on us, especially when they are NOT the answer. The answer is to station well-armed retired Seals, Green Berets, Marine Recon, Air Force Special Ops, and the like in every school in America. Pay them with tax breaks or the like. If we can spend $40B on Ukraine we can do this. And what would be their role in the schools? Disarm by whatever means necessary every so and so who comes into the school toting a gun. Put metal detectors at every entrance. Limit number of entrances during school hours. Use 2 door interlock systems at active entrances. There are any number of things which can be done without trampling all over our Constitution. BUT right now, just pray for all those involved!

Laws/politics do not work. I think you are correct about armed security… at least for now.

 

[jttheclockman]

The one thing I did not want to happen with this thread is to make it a political thing. Gun control and the rights of citizens is a political timebomb. But common sense has to happen and our politicians need to step up and pass background checks laws. Not knowing all the details about this case or any others that recently took place and the ease of which it was possible to obtain these assault rifles and any other gun has to be questioned and looked into. The world is changing in so many ways and we need to change the laws that are associated with firearms as well. Whatever side or beliefs you have in this matter you have to agree there needs to have something done. Has to happen!!!

Again just watching the news and seeing the familys just tears you up inside. My prayers are with them.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

The US just sent $40 billion in "aid" to one of the most corrupt nations on earth to support them in a war that we shouldn't not be funding. Why not take $1-4 billion of that and hire security for all school across the nation rather than funding a conflict that isn't ours? These shootings are almost always done by individuals who are mentally unstable and specifically target "gun free" zones because they are easy targets to cause the most suffering. Sadly, this is almost a necessity at this point...

This attack on elementary school kids breaks my heart, the politicization of it before any actual details came out other than the word "shooting" sickens me even further. Can we just mourn with the families who have just suffered unimaginable loss for the next couple of weeks? There will be plenty of time to discuss policy concerning fire arms and whether the inanimate object that is a gun isn't necessarily the problem. This discussion should include talks about the growing mental health crises of these younger generations that are committing most of these atrocities and what we can do to change that going forward.

As many have stated, guns have ALWAYS been present so why the extreme violence now? But this conversation should wait, now is a time for mourning and NOT divisive politics. Lets all just pray for those families in pain that have to bury their innocent children.

 

[Woodchipper]

Unfortunately and sadly, this will not be the first nor the last. Until we have effective gun controls this will continue to occur over, and over, and over, and over........

Canada had a mass shooting, passed effective gun controls. Be like Canada!

We have 20,000 gun laws on the books. How many laws did the shooter ignore? The late news commentator, Paul Harvey, declared that what is needed is self control. How can we expect a person with criminal intent to obey gun laws when the so-called honest citizen won't obey a stop sign or speed limit?

 

[Humongous]

Two young men each 18 yrs old, involved in mass shootings in the last 2 weeks. I just don't know how one accumulates so much hatred, at such a young age, to perpetrate such a heinous act. Prayers to the families involved, I can't even imagine the pain that they are feeling.

 

[jttheclockman]

Again I do not want to get into gun control but seriously you can say all the gun laws on the books but how can an 18 year old go into a gun shop 2 days earlier and buy assault rifles with no background check or any other checks so please do not defend the laws on the books. Times have changed and we need to change. These kids are sick but again those that were around him need to open their eyes. This social media stuff needs to be looked at with more scrutiny.

We have gone through this so many times and am sure will be more. We all either have kids, know people with kids and we need to look at things way differently than what we grew up with. No comparison today.

 

[Arnold]

Again I do not want to get into gun control but seriously you can say all the gun laws on the books but how can an 18 year old go into a gun shop 2 days earlier and buy assault rifles with no background check or any other checks so please do not defend the laws on the books. Times have changed and we need to change. These kids are sick but again those that were around him need to open their eyes. This social media stuff needs to be looked at with more scrutiny.

We have gone through this so many times and am sure will be more. We all either have kids, know people with kids and we need to look at things way differently than what we grew up with. No comparison today.

Ramos bought two assault-style rifles from a store in Uvalde County earlier this month on his 18th birthday, the first day he could legally do so...The rifles were purchased from an FFL so there was a background check...

 

[jttheclockman]

Ramos bought two assault-style rifles from a store in Uvalde County earlier this month on his 18th birthday, the first day he could legally do so...The rifles were purchased from an FFL so there was a background check...

As I said I am not going to get into a he said she said contest here If this be the case then the law still has to be changed to do a more intensive search. 18 years old should not be allowed to buy guns. They want to shoot guns join the armed services. Can not drink until your 21. Way too many things can be done to at least try to get this under control.

 

[moke]

I guess I wonder why we are concerned with changing the laws. These folks doing the shooting are not law abiding citizens. They don't care about laws. And doing more research on people that purchase is going to hit a wall too. The laws that need to be changed are the HIPPA laws, and I'm not sure as that would help a whole lot. I worked part time, in the division of our Sheriffs Office that issued the weapons permits. I did not do the actual permitting, but I was around it constantly. There is NO WAY of checking if a person has mental issues, unless they were committed at one time, and a civil tort could be brought against the Office for denying a weapons permit or a permit to purchase unjustly. I will agree there are many folks out there that should never get either permit and any current or former LEO will tell you that, but aside from having each person interviewed by a psychologist how would that be done? And medical professionals are human too, with different opinions and approaches. How could that EVER be consistent? Everyone wants something done....what? Even if the law was changed to take away all weapons, who is going to collect them? Let the people who are in favor of it be the first one to take them. Plus there would be more shots exchanged while picking them up than any of the instances now.....Think of Ruby Ridge. After being a on a PD and the SO, the cops would not be the ones collecting them, and they can barely hire people now....

Politicians always need to DO SOMETHING or I can fix it...no you can't. There are hundreds of millions of guns out there...literally to coin an old phrase," the only people that will have guns are the bad people. "

One more point...the Ukraine, after being under communist umbrella for a long long time, they took all the guns from their citizens....I'll bet starting 2 months ago, they wished they had some those, huh....

This was an extreme tragedy, Horrible! and everyone is saying that something needs to be done....but it seems to me no one is thinking it through. There are 100's of millions of guns out there....I don't see a solution in my lifetime.....

It is inherant on politicians to say, vote for me I CAN FIX THIS. Please consider that as you vote...that person is disillusion.

 

[Arnold]

As I said I am not going to get into a he said she said contest here If this be the case then the law still has to be changed to do a more intensive search. 18 years old should not be allowed to buy guns. They want to shoot guns join the armed services. Can not drink until your 21. Way too many things can be done to at least try to get this under control.

Many things need to be changed...You posted "Can not drink until your 21" I was in combat in Vietnam at the age of 20 and there were 18-year-old kids with me but we couldn't legally buy a beer in the states because we were not 21...Go figure...

 

[WriteON]

Personally we've been in deep crap for a long time… and digging. Agreed on no solution for a long time. Society lost it's mind a long time ago.

 

[moke]

No offense JT, but raising the age ti 21 would may have been a deterant the two idiots this week, but that is certainly no long term fix....

 

[sorcerertd]

I've run out of words to even talk about the craziness in our world, but I have enough words to pray for those involved. I have enough words to pray for a sick nation. I have plenty of prayers, but not one bit of understanding. I can't imagine what must go through someone's head to even think about doing this, let alone actually following through. I can understand why a couple drug dealers would shoot it out over territory. Not saying it's right, but I can at least see their logic. But grade school kids!? People you don't even know, just buying some groceries!? We are a very sick society, with or without guns.

 

[jttheclockman]

One last time for me before this gets shut down. All I wanted to do was to pass along my prayers to those that it may effect and even if you are not from the area but have kids it hits home. condolences to those familys and friends. I will not partake in any more discussions because it is getting close to be political and not doing any good.

 

[bsshog40]

This is a very sad event and one of many. The shooter posted his intentions on facebook and nothing was done. This is a mental issue that needs to be addressed. Also, the Uvalde ISD stated that they were in the process of upgrading security measures at their school until defunding of the police came into affect 2 yrs ago. They said their funding stopped to proceed any further. We protect soo many buildings and establishments with armed security but protect our schools with a sign that reads "Gun Free Zone". What's up with that! My condolences go out to all the families!

 

[DrD]

Bobby you are soooooooooo correct! And to compound things, making a horribly tragic event/situation even more tragic is the fact that those who readily accept paychecks for carrying a gun to protect and serve haven't learned a cottin' pickin' thing in the 20 years since Colombine. If the report I saw & heard last night is correct, the "police" milled around outside for some time - 20 t0 30 mins - after they got on scene, waiting for orders - just like Colombine. Until some real heroes showed up. The Bortac officers from the US Border Patrol showed up went straight into the school and took care of business - plainly they, the Bortac officers, were the real heroes - they did what needed to be done without hesitation and took care of business! From what was reported last night, they - 1 or more - rolled up on the scene, exited their vehicles, ran into the school and put a stop to the madness. Why in all that's holy didn't any of the other officers who were collected outside do what the Border Patrol did - and this goes for the Texas Rangers, the Texas Dept of Public Safety, the FBI, the BATF, local - city and county - law enforcement, and any other duly-sworn law enforcement officials that were there. If the report I heard was incorrect, then I apologize. BUT I do recall at the earliest televised reports that a gentlemen holding a picture of his daughter - who later was identified as having been killed - asking why "NO ONE would go in there and save her?" Thank God for the men and women of the US Border Patrol!!!!! If only they could have gotten there sooner.

 

[RGVPens]

Many things need to be changed...You posted "Can not drink until your 21" I was in combat in Vietnam at the age of 20 and there were 18-year-old kids with me but we couldn't legally buy a beer in the states because we were not 21...Go figure...

Depends on the state. I believe Kansas was 18 when I went into the ARMY.

 

[PatrickR]

My first reaction was disbelief and sadness. Today it's anger. The idea that the first on the scene recoiled because they felt they needed more???. They had training and weapons. What more did they need? Character and bravery.
What has happened to the American man? Countless men stormed the beaches of Normandy with little more than a gun and a will.

 

[RGVPens]

Bobby you are soooooooooo correct! And to compound things, making a horribly tragic event/situation even more tragic is the fact that those who readily accept paychecks for carrying a gun to protect and serve haven't learned a cottin' pickin' thing in the 20 years since Colombine. If the report I saw & heard last night is correct, the "police" milled around outside for some time - 20 t0 30 mins - after they got on scene, waiting for orders - just like Colombine. Until some real heroes showed up. The Bortac officers from the US Border Patrol showed up went straight into the school and took care of business - plainly they, the Bortac officers, were the real heroes - they did what needed to be done without hesitation and took care of business! From what was reported last night, they - 1 or more - rolled up on the scene, exited their vehicles, ran into the school and put a stop to the madness. Why in all that's holy didn't any of the other officers who were collected outside do what the Border Patrol did - and this goes for the Texas Rangers, the Texas Dept of Public Safety, the FBI, the BATF, local - city and county - law enforcement, and any other duly-sworn law enforcement officials that were there. If the report I heard was incorrect, then I apologize. BUT I do recall at the earliest televised reports that a gentlemen holding a picture of his daughter - who later was identified as having been killed - asking why "NO ONE would go in there and save her?" Thank God for the men and women of the US Border Patrol!!!!! If only they could have gotten there sooner.

The Border Patrol men and women are AWESOME! I live about 3 miles from the border here in Mission TX. I see and talk with them all the time. Yes, I have the BP phone number on speed dial and have used it. When we lived here before we were about a mile or less to the river! I drove my golf cart to the river where a bunch of us old vets met one day a week to drink beer and watch the BP gun boats go by. I was there one day with the guys and a rubber raft came across the river by us. Most of us grabbed our phones and hit "BP". Less than 60 seconds later the first truck came flying up, I pointed towards the woods as several more trucks arrived. A couple of min. later the helicopter arrived and steered the guys on the ground to the illegals. About that time a couple of the gun boats came flying up the river looking for more coyotes.

That is one of many times I've seen the BP work. They are the best.

 

[Arnold]

Depends on the state. I believe Kansas was 18 when I went into the ARMY.

Thank you for letting me know there are states with a legal drinking age lower than 21...I was trying to make the point that we give an18-year-old a rifle and send them to war but they can't buy a beer in most states...Now many people want to make it illegal for an 18-year-old to purchase a rifle...
Instead of passing feel-good laws that don't work, we need to make schools a hard target with locked doors and armed security...

 

[Brian G]

Li

Instead of passing feel-good laws that don't work, we need to make schools a hard target with locked doors and armed security...

I think that's called "prison" not "school."

 

[Arnold]

Li

I think that's called "prison" not "school."

I would much prefer to call schools a prison than a target-rich environment...

 

[Brian G]

I would much prefer to call schools a prison than a target-rich environment...

You win. I cannot comprehend marginalizing the issue down to that line of thinking.

 

[montmill]

Over 9,000 schools in Texas. Local town can't hire postal workers. Time to get weapons of mass destruction out of the population and have some law and order. Protect the police! They're out gunned. Note: I've had a friend killed in the line of duty. Enough.

 

[bsshog40]

Thank you for letting me know there are states with a legal drinking age lower than 21...I was trying to make the point that we give an18-year-old a rifle and send them to war but they can't buy a beer in most states...Now many people want to make it illegal for an 18-year-old to purchase a rifle...
Instead of passing feel-good laws that don't work, we need to make schools a hard target with locked doors and armed security...

The kids of today are not raised like us older folks were. We were taught to respect people. Not all, but most kids today are coddled, we have feminization of boys, pick your gender, playing violent video games all day and no accountability. I don't think the gernerations of today are mature at 18 anymore. I think they should raise the age to 21 for gun purchase. I also think that social media influences kids of today in much more ways than people want to believe.

 

[bsshog40]

Over 9,000 schools in Texas. Local town can't hire postal workers. Time to get weapons of mass destruction out of the population and have some law and order. Protect the police! They're out gunned. Note: I've had a friend killed in the line of duty. Enough.

This is what I don't understand. What is considered Mass Destruction? More than 2, 5, 10??? How many guns are there that only shoots 1 round? It's people with mental issues pulling these triggers! An inanimate object is not active until someone makes it active. Take away the folding stocks and fancy scopes and put wooden stocks back on these rifles and they look and shoot like any other hunting rifle. People keep pointing at the weapon and not the person holding it. Look how many deaths are caused by texting and driving today. Should we ban phones in vehicles? Who will follow that law? People decide if they want to hurt or endanger someone else's lives, not the weapon that they choose to use!!!

 

[Arnold]

The kids of today are not raised like us older folks were. We were taught to respect people. Not all, but most kids today are coddled, we have feminization of boys, pick your gender, playing violent video games all day and no accountability. I don't think the gernerations of today are mature at 18 anymore. I think they should raise the age to 21 for gun purchase. I also think that social media influences kids of today in much more ways than people want to believe.

Good post, I do agree culture is the main problem...

 

[Woodchipper]

Many things need to be changed...You posted "Can not drink until your 21" I was in combat in Vietnam at the age of 20 and there were 18-year-old kids with me but we couldn't legally buy a beer in the states because we were not 21...Go figure...

But you were issued a fully automatic M-16A1 at age 20, not to mention infantry AIT, 11B, on an M-60, M-79, etc. But...people will buy their 16 yo a car. Hmmm.
I lived in Queens, NY and the drinking age was 18. A college friend was from northern PA. They would cross to Elmira, NY to drink at 18. Same time frame, Ohio had a law that one could drink 3.2 (near beer) at 18.

 

[TellicoTurning]

All the laws and back ground checks and red flag issues are for nothing until we have an attitude change in America.

Times are more violent today than 150 years ago in the "wild West". ... I think it's attitude towards violence. You get p----- at someone, just shoot him.

 

[jttheclockman]

I see this topic has evolved and the what if's are being thrown around along with the yesteryears happenings. Remember a few things. This is 2022 and not 1922. Times have changed. Things have changed drastically just 2 and 1/2 years to 3 years ago due to the pandemic. It is a total different world we live in. The way we were brought up years ago is not the same. We need to adapt to things around us. You can not drink at 18. But you can walk into a simple store and buy such mass destruction weapons as was used. Does not make sense. No one's rights will be stepped on if we just enact simple common sense laws such as full detailed universal background checks, licenses to own any weapon, raise the age to 21 to own any gun, red flag lists and I am sure others. The comeback is well criminals will not obey laws anyway and this is true but why make things this easy for them to buy weapons like this.? It has been said here to beef security at schools and yes this is a deterrent but you can not have a platoon assigned to each and every school. We do not need to have our schools look like prisons. We as a society need to pay more attention to the people around us and say something if things do not look right. Do not sweep it under the rug. If you own weapons, be responsible and keep them safe from your kids. So much can be done by all of us. I know this is a hot button topic and guns is a political issue but that is not what I wanted to happen with this thread. We are all to blame. So look in the mirror and ask yourself what you can do to stop this madness?

 

[Joebobber]

I don't think hardening schools is an option. That wouldn't have stopped the guy in Buffalo last week, or the many other places that are not schools that this happens. I don't know what the solution is. I graduated in '99, and used to bring my shotgun to school to go duck hunting after we got out. How do you change culture? There is so much anger in the country. Until the vitriol and partisan crap ends I don't see how anything changes.

 

[jttheclockman]

I don't think hardening schools is an option. That wouldn't have stopped the guy in Buffalo last week, or the many other places not schools this happens. I don't know what the solution is. I graduated in '99, and used to bring my shotgun to school to go duck hunting after we got out. How do you change culture? There is so much anger in the country.

Sums it up!!!!!!