Headstock heats up

[KMCloonan]

Hi all,

Ever since I bought my Laguna 1216 lathe, I have been super happy with it. I had one question though that I am hoping someone here can answer for me.

My headstock heats up when it runs. Heats up to the point that when I remove whatever is installed, it's almost too hot to handle comfortably. Example is my dead center - it gets pretty hot. I switched to a PSI TBC setup with the short mandrel sections to hang the bushings on - that gets hot.

As first, I wondered if I am somehow exerting too much pressure on the pen blanks while turning, which would stress the headstock. So today I did a simple experiment. I installed the TBC component into the headstock, but did not hang a blank. I simply turned on the lathe and let the headstock spin at about 2500 RPM for about 2 minutes with no load. It heated up.

I have noticed a slight film around the perimeter of the headstock bearing (like a very light grease). I wonder if my bearing is leaking and possibly running dry?

Any thoughts, advice, suggestions would be appreciated.

KC

 

[KenB259]

I have the same lathe, mine gets hot too. I contacted Laguna and they told me it's normal. I stopped worrying about it and haven't had any issues.

 

[randyrls]

The bearings in a lathe head stock are squeezed between two "stops". One end will be threaded as an adjustment. The adjustment removes any run-out in the head stock bearings. "Pre-load" is the general term. The most common way of setting the pre-load is to run the lathe at it's highest speed and see how warm the head stock gets. If it is excessive can be a problem with bearing wear, but could be normal as they said.

KC: The situation is that pre-load is normal, but too much makes the bearings run hot and reduces their life span. It usually isn't possible to change the pre-load without a LOT OF WORK!

From the manufacturer point of view: If the pre-load is set too tight the head stock gets too hot, but a pre-load set too loose will be a rejected lathe (Too much run-out).

 

[Mortalis]

My headstock heats up when it runs. Heats up to the point that when I remove whatever is installed, it's almost too hot to handle comfortably. Example is my dead center - it gets pretty hot. I switched to a PSI TBC setup with the short mandrel sections to hang the bushings on - that gets hot.

Does this cause the dead center to be difficult to remove? If so, and this is only my thoughts, is this going to malform the M2 taper over time?
The taper gets hot, expands ever so slightly, center's taper moves further into the headstock before it reaches expansion temp, headstock cools, force increases on the center's taper.
Just thinking out loud.

 

[rherrell]

NO lathe should get too hot to touch, whoever at Laguna told Ken it was "normal" was either lying or stupid. I'd check the pre-load on the bearings first, that's the easiest, if that's not it then remove the bearings for inspection. If you have a belt drive check the belt tension, it doesn't need to be very tight.

 

[KMCloonan]

Thanks for everyone's input. The fact that Ken has the same lathe, with the same issue tells me it is not just my lathe - I will keep an eye on it and if it seems to get worse I will look more closely at the bearings.

The dead center is not difficult to remove with a knockout rod, and I have not had any other difficulties with the lathe because of the heating up headstock, so I will leave it be for now.

 

[jrista]

NO lathe should get too hot to touch, whoever at Laguna told Ken it was "normal" was either lying or stupid. I'd check the pre-load on the bearings first, that's the easiest, if that's not it then remove the bearings for inspection. If you have a belt drive check the belt tension, it doesn't need to be very tight.

I have to agree here. I had (well, still have) a Laguna Revo 1524, and around October last year the headstock stopped functioning. It would turn on, but it couldn't really handle a load, and started wavering in RPMs with significant dropouts to around 200 rpm (from 600, 800, 1200). I ended up having to get the headstock replaced.

I'm not sure of Laguna's competence. Within about 20 minutes of me having a conversation with them about the issue, a freight company showed up at my door. I wasn't even expecting them, and they weren't willing to wait around while I took the headstock off. They took off and said they would come back another day. I ended up having to box up the headstock myself and pay for the filling an packing to get it sent off. Laguna did eventually send a replacement, and its been working fine.

I would be careful if things are getting hot to the touch. In my case I'd have called it warm, not hot...but, the headstock did start making a disturbing squeaking sound that I reported to Laguna before it actually stopped working. I am not even sure why mine stopped working. At first they sent new motor replacement which I installed, but the problem persisted even after that and the squeaking ended up worse. I never got an explanation from Laguna about what the problem was, and they eventually stopped communicating with me altogether (and there was still another issue with the lathe that I'd been working with them on before the headstock went)...

I now own a Powermatic 3520C and couldn't be happier. Its been flawless so far, rock solid stable, and it functions perfectly every time I turn it on.

 

[KenB259]

I decided to take another look at this issue. I went down and loosened slightly the cover, I have a hand wheel, on the outboard side. If you loosen it too much the spindle has a little slop. I tightened just until there was no slop. I ran the lathe at the fastest speed for ten minutes and the spindle was just very slightly warm, no where near to hot to touch.

 

[KMCloonan]

I decided to take another look at this issue. I went down and loosened slightly the cover, I have a hand wheel, on the outboard side. If you loosen it too much the spindle has a little slop. I tightened just until there was no slop. I ran the lathe at the fastest speed for ten minutes and the spindle was just very slightly warm, no where near to hot to touch.

Thanks Ken. I will give this a try.

 

[KMCloonan]

I tried what @KenB259 suggested, but did not see an appreciable difference. The inboard bearing still heats up.

I wrote to Laguna, and they asked me to take a couple of temperature readings of the inboard and outboard bearings.



I turned on the lathe with nothing mounted (no mandrels, chucks, etc.), and let it run at about 3300rpm for about 3-4 minutes before I took the temperatures. This is in my basement, which is a cool 65-70F.

The photo on the left is the outboard bearing temperature with the handle removed. It's only mildly warm at 102F. The photo on the right is the inboard bearing/spindle. You can see it's running pretty hot at 122F. I stopped there, but I suspect it could get warmer still.

It seems clear to me that the inboard bearing is failing. I sent these photos to Travis at Laguna, and will see what he has to say.

KC

 

[KenB259]

I tried what @KenB259 suggested, but did not see an appreciable difference. The inboard bearing still heats up.

I wrote to Laguna, and they asked me to take a couple of temperature readings of the inboard and outboard bearings.

View attachment 339780 View attachment 339781

I turned on the lathe with nothing mounted (no mandrels, chucks, etc.), and let it run at about 3300rpm for about 3-4 minutes before I took the temperatures. This is in my basement, which is a cool 65-70F.

The photo on the left is the outboard bearing temperature with the handle removed. It's only mildly warm at 102F. The photo on the right is the inboard bearing/spindle. You can see it's running pretty hot at 122F. I stopped there, but I suspect it could get warmer still.

It seems clear to me that the inboard bearing is failing. I sent these photos to Travis at Laguna, and will see what he has to say.

KC

I'm interested to see what they say.

 

[KenB259]

There's another post on Facebook almost identical to yours. Lots of comments and all but 1 from other Laguna owners say their lathes run warm.

 

[KMCloonan]

I heard back from Travis at Laguna - I sent him the photos I posted here last night. Here's what Travis said:

Hey Kevin:
Thank you for the great documentation. So I'll start with the outboard side. The outboard side has a floating bearing which means it isn't press fit and is held in by the handle. For your safety and the safety of the machine, please don't run it with the handle off. With that said, there is some oil to be expected on the outboard size due to the floating nature so no worries about the bit of oil there. 102 is perfectly fine.

As for the inboard side, 122 is getting somewhat close to the low end of dangerous temperatures. If I recall, 130 or 135 is the "danger" point for most human contact. Do you notice any meaningful difference in the temps with the handwheel and mandrel installed? When you spin the spindle by hand, do you feel a grinding sensation of anything strange on the inboard side? You're welcome to go about replacing that bearing. It's a difficult task for the average person but those who are mechanically inclined shouldn't have much difficulties.

Thank you,
Travis

So the suggestion would be to replace the bearing. Since I had a lot of trouble last year replacing the bearings on my Nova lathe, I wrote back to Travis and asked if they had a procedure for replacing the bearing. Here's what Travis responded:


Hey Kevin,

So we don't have instructions on how to swap the bearings. However, we have a document on swapping the belt. The only steps you should need to take beyond this would be to remove the spindle entirely through the inboard side (requires removal of the components on the spindle so take note of where they're located) and then pull and press the only and new bearings before reversing the steps. The bearings aren't quite the same. Minor difference that the model numbers can be seen in the back of the owner's manual. The inboard side bearing is linked below:

Ball Bearing 6006LLU

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www.shop.lagunatools.com

You can order any bearing that matches that spec though so you don't need to get it from us. Good to hear that you don't feel any grinding though. I wouldn't worry to much about it but I would check the temperature every now and again. Like I said, 130-135 I think is the danger range. Given the nightmare that is swapping the bearing, I'd advise against it for now but of course it's your call.

Thank you,
Travis


So basically, unless the lathe gets too hot to handle, leave it alone. I may let it go a little longer, but that spindle gets pretty hot. I think it's closer to 130-135F - I can't hold my fingers on it for more than a couple of seconds before it starts to hurt. I have a low pain threshold I guess.

I guess it's good to know that a lot of Laguna owners are experiencing warm bearings, but that should really not be "normal"

I would like to commend Laguna & Travis for being really responsive, and somewhat helpful. Much better than what I experienced with Teknatool (Nova)

 

[KenB259]

Thanks for posting this. I printed off the instructions for future reference.

 

[Woodchipper]

Thanks for the post and info. Don't have a Laguna but good reference for the temperatures on the headstock.
"...take note of the location" is good advice. My son takes photos of the disassembly sequence to reverse it for assembly. What did we do before cell phone cameras?