Gorilla glue problem..

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ronaigner@msn

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Hi all.. I have had some problems with Gorilla glue not holding onto acrylic. Also on different types of wood and acrylic have had a lot of brass tube movement as the glue drys, even when not disturbed during the drying process. I have not been using any pre-water just straight glue. Has anyone else had problems like this or just my luck? Thanks to all who reply. Ron.
 
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I have not had any problem with the gorrila glue. I usually make sure the surface I am letting the tubes dry on it flat and then check on them after a about 10 min and adjust the tubes if needed (only had to do that once, but it was on the first batch I used gorilla glue on so it became a habit real quick).

I think the tube movement is why Old Griz has switched to a 5 min epoxy.

Ryan
 
I have found that epoxy works better than poly glues in securing the tubes inside the resin blanks and doesn't have the short working time of CA
 
Ron, many of our members use it with much success, but use varying methods to keep the tubes from moving during drying (i.e. rubber bands around the ends, clamps, etc.). I've only used it once and probably will not again, but that's just my prefernce (I stuck mine in a bench vise to keep the tubes in place). I use 5 or 15 min epoxy exclusively. I've also tried thick CA, but wasn't terribly pleased with it either. Poly glues are dependent on moisture for activation so the presence of water is essential so this could be part of your problem. I do use Gorilla and other poly glues for various woodworking projects so I'm not slamming poly glues. They have their place. Based on my rather limited experience to date, I just prefer epoxy. FWIW.
 
Ron,
I've only done a few resin pens, and have yet to do an acrylic pen. However, I had trouble with CA in my resin pens, and someone (elody21?) suggested switching to poly glue. My new technique for poly, which works well for me regardless of whether it is wood or resin, is:
1) drill out the blank
2) clean the inside of the tube well using DNA to make sure there's no dust inside
3) scuff up the tube
4) wipe the tube with DNA to get rid of my hand oils
5) wipe the inside of the blank with a Q-tip that has some water on it (just enough to keep the inside moist)
6) spread poly glue inside the blank with a Q-tip
7) spread poly glue across the outer surface of the tube with a Q-tip
8) breathe on the tube and poly glue, to make sure there's some additional water vapor there
9) slide the tube in the blank

I find that, when I stick to these rules, everything works great. If I start to deviate, that's when I get problems. For example, when I first used poly glue, it didn't work well for me. After asking around on here, I found out poly glue is supposed to foam as it cures; my first set of poly glued blanks never foamed. The foaming is from the interaction of the glue and water; apparently my blanks didn't get enough water when I was working with them back then.

Hope this helps!
 
Between tube movement and having to dampen one surface of any blank, I stopped using poly glues and went back to epoxy... depending on how many kits I am setting up I have either 5 min or 90 min epoxy on hand... have yet to have a failure with epoxy.. other than stupidity on my part [:p]
Did you know that if you get some epoxy on the outside of the blank and put it down on the wooden top of your workbench the blank then becomes part of your workbench... Been there, done that, going to make a tshirt that says it.. [:(!]
BTW..the same thing will happen with polyglue foam out if it goes from the blank to the bench.. only that is easier the get off...
 
I use Poly Pro which is like Gorilla glue.

If you don't use water, the glue cures slower and there is less of a chance of the tube moving. I glued up 20 pens (40 blanks) this past weekend. After about 45 minutes, I checked the blanks and only one tube moved, which I was able to push back in.
 
Have you tried drilling a little larger when using Gorilla glue? For my 7mm pens, I drill the blank with a 9/32 bit to give a little extra space because the poly expands.
 
Billy B has your solution....you need water for the reaction to be complete. Water can be absorbed from the atmosphere, but inside of a platic tube, the cure is very slow. A little dampness in the hole before tube placement will help you bunches.

BTW - I only use epoxy now as well.[8D]
 
I started out using poly glues then switched to 5 min. epoxy. The poly didn't always hold well when turning and storage was a problem. El Cheapo me hates to pay for a full bottle then discarding half of it because it has gone hard. And, yes, I have tried all the tricks for storage, upside down, downside sideways, etc. Still goes bad. Glueing various plastics can be very problematic, sometimes impossible. Forget glueing delrin, like grabbing smoke.
 
I haven't done any acrylics/resins, but use ONLY gorilla in all my wood blanks.
I don't soak the blank either, just breathe thru the tube to cause a bit of "humidity".

I have not had any tubes move on me.... yet. Keep in mind that I have a limited experience, so YMMV!! God looks after dumb people, which would explain my luck! [:p]
 
The biggest problem I have had with Gorilla glue is the darn Gorilla keeps getting in the way.
I usually take a Q tip and dip in in water then wipe the hole in the blank. So far it seems to be working.
 
Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />Between tube movement and having to dampen one surface of any blank, I stopped using poly glues and went back to epoxy... depending on how many kits I am setting up I have either 5 min or 90 min epoxy on hand... have yet to have a failure with epoxy.. other than stupidity on my part [:p]
Did you know that if you get some epoxy on the outside of the blank and put it down on the wooden top of your workbench the blank then becomes part of your workbench... Been there, done that, going to make a tshirt that says it.. [:(!]
BTW..the same thing will happen with polyglue foam out if it goes from the blank to the bench.. only that is easier the get off...
Click to expand...

I solved the problem of getting glue on my workbench almost by accident. I had bought a ream of really cheap computer printer paper that just wouldn't feed, it always jammed. Instead of throwing it away, I brought it into the shop intending to write notes on it. Instead I now use it for my glueing. I put the epoxy on one side, mix with a toothpick and apply to tubes. The tubed/glued blanks are left to sit on the paper and cure. Even if it sticks, no problem, it just turns off on the lathe and benchtop stays glue free. I like my system so much that when this paper runs out I'll buy another ream just for this purpose.
 
Does anyone have any idea what the shelf life of 5 min Epoxy is. I have some in the shop that is probably 2 1/2 years old and I am wondering if it is still good. I would like to try it on some blanks.

Thanks,
Ryan
 
Rats! I probably have fourteen different tubes or bottles of different kinds of glue I bought when I started pen turning trying to find out what might work and be cheap! I just watch it age into uselessness. Yeah, old and stiff just like me! Hmmm!
 
As was noted, a slightly larger hole will allow expansion of the poly. Without the space, it's forcing the tube out. I got the Hint off Russ Fairfields site. Depending on your humidity, you may need to swab the inside of the blank with water...[:)]
 
Originally posted by JimGo
<br />Frank,
Another thing to try is wax paper. The glue doesn't seep through it, and it turns off very easily if it sticks.
Click to expand...

I haven't had problems of seeping through with any glues. And paper I was going to throw away anyway is cheaper. And if there's anything I really like, it's cheeper. [:p]
 
Originally posted by Ryan
<br />Does anyone have any idea what the shelf life of 5 min Epoxy is. I have some in the shop that is probably 2 1/2 years old and I am wondering if it is still good. I would like to try it on some blanks.

Thanks,
Ryan
Click to expand...

Depends on the type of epoxy.

Most of the Epoxies that I use at work have a 1-2 year listed shelf life. I use tons of Hysol ep-90 at work and Loctite (Who bought out Hysol and is part of the Henkel group) claims an 18 month shelf life. I'm not sure which way it goes but when it goes out of shelf life it either takes a little longer or a little shorter time to cure and some of the tensile and shear strengths go bad but for our purposes I don't think we have much to worry about.

One way to test old epoxy is to mix a small batch and see if it cures. If it don't cure right it's time to pitch it and get some more.
 
I have been using primarily Poly glue, and occasionally CA(normally when I forget to sand a tube for a Acrylic blank and it breaks free after the Poly doesnt hold and I need a quick repair). I've never had a problem with the tubes moving, but that may be because I live on the TN/AL border and we always have humidity, or it may just be that I have gotten lucky.

I may try the 5 minute epoxy. I want a faster cure time than Poly, but I hate rushing like with CA. Is there a particular brand that works best? And what about storing the open bottle, do you just pop the caps back on and its fine?

Thanks,
 
I use the 5-minute epoxy that looks like two syringes stuck together. Take the cap off, press the plunger, and it spits out equal (more or less) portions of each part. I usually use up a tube before it ever goes bad. I mix it on a scrap of wood with a toothpick, loose nail, stick, or whatever is on the bench. I've had great luck with it, and can be bought about anywhere. They have it at Home Depot in several variations (5-minute, overnight, and someothing else) but is also at Wally World. I try to keep a spare or two of it around.
 
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