Gluing brass tubes

[WoodnPecker]

Originally posted by Queso
<br />I use stabilized cobs from River Ridge Products. Excellent quality, but even the stabilized cobs are a real PIA to work with. Some use lots of CA on the cob, but that is an expensive and sort of unhealthy way to create a corn cob pen. If you're only doing one or two pens, it will work, but I'm making 10-12 corn cob pens a week, so I don't want to take the time to use CA.

Thanks for the information on the corn cobs!

 

[Queso]

Update - Despite more normal aversion to throwing good money after bad, I decided to try to glue up another batch of cobs last night with the poly. I wet the inside of the tubes well with a Q-tip, and the only one I lost this morning was my own fault, and it happened while I was cutting the tenon.

So, the moral is that poly works well, but it needs moisture to bond properly.

 

[Gary]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />Gluing in brass tubes is not an exact science. The materials we glue together vary greatly and the types glues all have advantages and disadvantages. Without picking one over the other, here's more information than you probably want to know about glue.

Glue only works in two ways: direct bonding and contact bonding. In direct bonding you apply the adhesive directly between two surfaces. In contact bonding, you apply a layer of adhesive to each surface, and then the two layers of adhesive are put in contact to stick to each other. Contact bonding is not often used in craft work as the bond is near permanent the moment the two adhesive surfaces touch.

The glues most commonly used in woodworking fall into three categories: water based, solvent based and chemical curing.

Most wood glues are water based and cure through evaporation. They stick best to highly porous surfaces (such as wood) and thus are not a good choice for plastics and metals. Poly and CA glues are solvent based and also work by evaporation. They work best with less porous surfaces such as metals and plastics. Epoxy is chemical curing glue that involves a physical change when a hardener is introduced to a resin. This is a fast bond, but can be slowed by the introduction of a third chemical to increase the amount of time the chemical reaction takes. Epoxy works well on a wide variety of surfaces.

With all of this in mind you can more easily select the appropriate glue for your need, BUT, regardless of the glue the surface needs to be clean and free from lubricants (other than water).

*

Cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that cures (forms its strongest bond) almost instantly. The only trigger it requires is the hydroxyl ions in water, which is convenient since virtually any object you might wish to glue will have at least trace amounts of water on its surface. BTW, the water can be simply the humidity in the air!

White glues, such as Elmer's, bond by solvent evaporation. The solvent in Elmer's all-purpose school glue is water. When the water evaporates, the polyvinylacetate latex that has spread into a material's crevices forms a flexible bond. Super glue, on the other hand, undergoes a process called anionic polymerization. Cyanoacrylate molecules start linking up when they come into contact with water, and they whip around in chains to form a durable plastic mesh. The glue thickens and hardens until the thrashing molecular strands can no longer move.
With all of this in mind you can more easily select the appropriate glue for your need, BUT, regardless of the glue the surface needs to be clean and free from lubricants.

<b>Now, there you go again!</b>

<b>Note the red text above (my highlight). Here is the text and web site link from which it was copied.</b>

Cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that cures (forms its strongest bond) almost instantly. The only trigger it requires is the hydroxyl ions in water, which is convenient since virtually any object you might wish to glue will have at least trace amounts of water on its surface.

White glues, such as Elmer's, bond by solvent evaporation. The solvent in Elmer's all-purpose school glue is water. When the water evaporates, the polyvinylacetate latex that has spread into a material's crevices forms a flexible bond. Super glue, on the other hand, undergoes a process called anionic polymerization. Cyanoacrylate molecules start linking up when they come into contact with water, and they whip around in chains to form a durable plastic mesh. The glue thickens and hardens until the thrashing molecular strands can no longer move.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question695.htm

 

[Thumbs]

<b>So what!</b> We're here to share info. I don't much care where it comes from as long as it has some degree of accuracy to it. If <b>Lou</b> is willing to share information he has found, he is the one responsible for its accuracy and legitimacy. If he winds up with a case of plagiarism, or whatever, that's his business. You found <u>this statement</u> at <u>that</u> site. So? Who's to say he didn't work there and originally make that statement originally? I don't know, do you?

Are you a lawyer making an accusation or case for that website owner? Maybe he owns and runs that site. Who knows? Who cares? I for one am not going to ignore information acquired from any source! I don't have to be politically correct, and I'm pretty sure that <b>Lou</b> is aware of any possible legal ramifications that "he" is liable for by sharing his acquired information. Whatever his source. I'm fairly sure that most all the information shared on this site has been "acquired" elswhere. We may have a few research chemists, or physicists, or biologists, or zoologists, or botanists, on board here; but if they are making pronouncements they are not quoting sources either. I don't know what <b>Lou</b> does, nor do I care. He shares info somewhat one sidedly with most of us, that's enough. We assume his info is accurate and meaningful. He assumes the liability for sharing it. We are not liable for his actions. [}]However, I am sure there is some lawyer somewhere who would be willing to submit to some court somewhere that we are...............[}]

This thread was to be about <u>Glue and Brass Tubes</u>.

Didn't I just get kicked all over the place for wandering off track? [xx(]

Even when I was derailed by you who shall remain nameless...! [}] Derailed and re-Railed (at)?[V][][][]
OOPS![] I Did It Again![] []
Come on gang! Let's play nice!
[][][][][]

 

[Gary]

Whew...you do like to rant don't you?

 

[Thumbs]

Gee, I thought you were picking on Lou! Was I wrong?

 

[DCBluesman]

Source: http://www.whatiscopyright.org/
Source: http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html
Source: http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ShowResults.jsp?country_id=ALL&search_what=B&bo_id=7

Article 10
(1) It shall be permissible to make quotations from a work which has already been lawfully made available to the public, provided that their making is compatible with fair practice, and their extent does not exceed that justified by the purpose, including quotations from newspaper articles and periodicals in the form of press summaries.

(2) It shall be a matter for legislation in the countries of the Union, and for special agreements existing or to be concluded between them, to permit the utilization, to the extent justified by the purpose, of literary or artistic works by way of illustration in publications, broadcasts or sound or visual recordings for teaching, provided such utilization is compatible with fair practice.

(3) Where use is made of works in accordance with the preceding paragraphs of this Article, mention shall be made of the source, and of the name of the author, if it appears thereon.

The information I share on this forum is most often based on the work and experience of others. It is shared for educational purposes only. Unless I claim original research, you can count on the information being either directly from someone else or an amalgamation of sources. I do not maintain a list of where I got information from or when. If someone has proof of copyright, based minimally on the Berne Convention, I will gladly credit the copyright holder or remove the post from the site as they so choose.

There will be no further comment.

 

[Thumbs]

Obviously, you copied that outta some arcane source known only to you and the <u><b>"ORIGINAL"</b></u> author! Ha! Ha! Ha!
[]
[]
[]

Owwch! OK! OK! I'll stop![][V][]
Sorry, <b>Lou</b>.
No more from me on this one either!
Unless.......

[}]

 

[reed43]

Fill

Originally posted by wayneis
<br />The worst problem that that I have heard about is CA gets inside the tube and you cannot see it is there untill its to late, like when you are pressing in the pen parts and the tube colapses and splits the wood. Now thats a real bummer, especially when you just completed a real good finish on a top notch blank.
Fill the end of the tube with play dough that you insert first. reed43

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by wayneis
<br />The worst problem that that I have heard about is CA gets inside the tube and you cannot see it is there untill its to late, like when you are pressing in the pen parts and the tube colapses and splits the wood. Now thats a real bummer, especially when you just completed a real good finish on a top notch blank.

Wayne

I started using poly. Didn't always hold. Switched to CA. Mess and could stick to fingers. Now use 5 min epoxy. Apply with toothpick. Can't run a shop without a big box of toothpicks. Handiest things enneywar. To prevent problem Wayne discussed, I always run trimmer into tubes to clear anything that might be in there, including glue or an out of round tube. Sometimes champher ends with a reamer or reloading tool.

 

[woodbutcher]

I do the toothpick thing too. When using Gorilla glue I also exhale two or three times into the blank to add enough moisture to cause the proper chemical reaction in the glue iself. Good luck,


Jim[]

 

[Doghouse]

You also might want to try doing the potato in the tailpipe trick. Take a slice of potato and punch the tube through it. (cut side down so you get a flat end) this will keep the glue from going into the tube.

 

[Randy_]

I find it very interesting/confusing that there is someone who has used each type of glue for at least a hundred years and had no or few failures and others who have used the same adhesives and had such poor results that they no longer use that same adhesive?? Looks to me like it is a case of "pick your own poison??" Seems that most any glue will work if the "prep" work is done correctly??

I wonder if anyone has ever tried contact cement or plain old Titebond yellow glue?? I "KNOW" that neither would be a recommended adhesive; but I wonder if anyone has bent the rules and experimented??