Fountain Pen Use

[Smitty37]

I wonder if anyone else has the gut feeling that fountain pen use might be much greater in other parts of the world than the US.

Are there places in the world where kids are actually taught in school how to use a fountain pen ? Are there countries where writing with a fountain pen is still common? Are there places where a fountain pen is a symbol of prestege or power?

In the 1940's when I started school, we sat at desks that had a hole in them for an ink well. But, by then, the school(s) had already stopped using pens and were teaching us to write strictly with pencils.

Some of my older siblings who range to as much as 26 years older than me, learned to write using pen and ink (normally a dip pen not a fountain pen) and carried a fountain pen. My parents alwasy wrote letters with a fountain pen. Yet, I don't remember anyone from my years of work at IBM or my time in the navy who pulled out a fountain pen to write with.

I'm curious about this because there are so many folks who are making, and I assume selling, fountain pens. Are there that many pen collectors out there? Or, are there folks actually using them as their day in day out pen.

 

[Pens By Scott]

Smitty, you pose a very good question. I have had a few (handful or less) people actually seeking a fountain pen at any of the shows I've been to. Of the few, two were serious collectors.

As for seeing them in use, yes, I have seen a few at my place of work (the one that pays me), which are actually used. The people typically are ones who have moved/emigrated to Canada, European mainly.

Just looking at trends, the LP (vinyl records) seemed to be going the way of the dinosaur, however, I have recently seen them making a comeback. I suspect that fountain pens will eventually become more popular (for those that still know how to write vs. text).

 

[wood-of-1kind]

There are still plenty of folks that use a FP. The pen show that I will be doing for the fourth year will attest to this statement. Although I carry an assortment of pens the ones that generate the most interest from the attendees at the show are the FPs. "They" carry quite a few and the ones that I talk to are avid users moreso than collectors. I don't sell as many FP's since there is the "snob" appeal towards the big name brands. It doesn't discourage me and I simply try to get feedback so that I am more in tune to what they are looking for (materials, pen nibs etc) and try to be better prepared for the next show.

 

[ctubbs]

FP Question,
I just started noseing around looking at pen nibs. Are they all that expensive? What is the difference between the nib that comes in the kit and one of those that sell for $100? There has to be something different but being a dumb electrician, if it doesn't spark then I'm not in the know.

 

[arioux]

Europeen contries are still using fountain and dip pen a lot. You will find them in use in school in many old contry as well as former communist contry. Many of the good ink brand are made in these country as well. We all know that Germany produce some of the best nibs and ink around. So to answer your question, yes, it's used a lot more in other conties but like many, i see them coming back around. One of the problem here in Quebec, is that school as dropped cursive writing to the "block" wrinting and i'm sure this will kill what's left of the joy and beauty of a nice fountain pen writing.

 

[ldb2000]

Fountain pen use in Europe is much more wide spread then it is here . Germany and several other countries still teach penmanship and the proper use of a fountain pen is still taught . Asian countries also still use fountain pens in everyday life and the proper use of them are still taught in schools .
In this country the use of fountain pens is frowned upon . My youngest son (15) loves fountain pens and has several in his collection and was using them in school . I got a phone call from one of his teachers complaining that his use of a fountain pen was disrupting the class because the other kids had never seen one and kept asking questions about it . The teacher actually had the nerve to mark him unprepared for class because he didn't have a "Bic" and I had to go talk to the school admin to fight for his right to use a fountain pen . What has this country become ?

 

[Lenny]

and I had to go talk to the school admin to fight for his right to use a fountain pen . What has this country become ?

I would have LOVED to be a fly on the wall for THAT meeting! :biggrin:
I hope you gave it too them good!!!

 

[ldb2000]

I almost got thrown out , I know a couple of school admins and at least one teacher that don't like me very much :biggrin: but my son has been using his Parker 45 since then and no one has said anything more about it ..... so far .

 

[arioux]

Insert a bic refil in one of your shell blank. That will disturb them but hey, it's a bic

 

[steeler fan1]

Hi Smitty,

Great question about FP. When I was in school we also had desks with ink wells, but we used them. We were taught to write with a dip pen. My granddaughter works for a German wind turbon company her office is in Chicago. Most of the employees are from Gremany and most of them use FP (Monte Blanc mostly). I hope to make her one for Christmas so it must be able to go up against the MB's. Any help?

I love Butch's story. I thought you were going to say they objected to the sharp tip, might stab somebody you know! What is this country coming to indeed.

Carl

 

[glycerine]

FP Question,
I just started noseing around looking at pen nibs. Are they all that expensive? What is the difference between the nib that comes in the kit and one of those that sell for $100? There has to be something different but being a dumb electrician, if it doesn't spark then I'm not in the know.

The really expensive ones are 14 or 18 karat gold. They are softer and have more flex. The kit nibs are steel and maybe have a gold plating. They write just fine for me. I guess it's all just preference... or a "status" symbol!

 

[nava1uni]

I use a fountain pen and both of my daughters learned cursive writing with a FP. I like how fountain pens write. I use a Namiki click fountain pen and a Parker fountain pen with a calligraphy tip. FPs write very nicely and with newer available inks they even dry quicker then years ago. I can't use one for work as FP won't work with copy type of papers, just can't apply enough pressure to make the paper work.

 

[LouCee]

In this country the use of fountain pens is frowned upon . My youngest son (15) loves fountain pens and has several in his collection and was using them in school . I got a phone call from one of his teachers complaining that his use of a fountain pen was disrupting the class because the other kids had never seen one and kept asking questions about it . The teacher actually had the nerve to mark him unprepared for class because he didn't have a "Bic" and I had to go talk to the school admin to fight for his right to use a fountain pen . What has this country become ?

Wow, that's both insane and sad. You would think there would be actual issues teachers and the school admin would need to use their time on.

 

[DurocShark]

The educational "culture" teachers are currently in doesn't include adopting "new" things and ideas. That's why you see so many pushing parents (still!!!) to put kids on Ritalin or whatever.

It's sad. And I have a hard time blaming the teachers for it.

As for FP use, I'm the only person I know that uses one regularly.

 

[Parson]

FP Question,
I just started noseing around looking at pen nibs. Are they all that expensive? What is the difference between the nib that comes in the kit and one of those that sell for $100? There has to be something different but being a dumb electrician, if it doesn't spark then I'm not in the know.

There's no comparison. A $100 18k nib writes smoothly and doesn't skip. The crap that comes on the pen kits is scratchy and worthless, really.

I just wish I could find a source for affordable nibs that are of as good a quality as Montblanc, but they make their own

 

[ctubbs]

Thanks so much for the info on the different pen nibs. When I was a very young child, my grand parent allowed me to use an old FP. I loved it and tried to use one when I started college. Locating good ink was a problem then. I think I will try to make me a new one for myself. I always loved the way the ink just flowed onto the paper, almost s by magic.If you were going to make one just for yourself, which kit would you chose?

 

[ldb2000]

It's funny but before my son started using his FP his hand writing was totally illegible , since he started using it you can actually read most of what he writes . The use of a FP makes you think about how you are writing . There's something about the pen gliding across the paper that makes you want to write and to do it in a way that can be enjoyed by others . We both love our FP's and even my older son now wants to learn how to use an FP . I have a collection of Parkers and my son has 2 Parkers and a Schaeffer calligraphy set and has asked for a Parker 51 for Christmas . I'm so proud of that boy ! My older son will be getting a Parker 45 Flighter for Christmas , we wanted to get him a bulletproof pen since he is as much of a clutz as I am and the 45 is almost indestructible . I'm also preparing to go to school again for him this time .

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Fountain pens sales at some of the higher end shows are on a big upswing. Today I sold 21 pens, 13 being fountain pens. Will we ever be Europe or Asia in the use of FP's.... absoluty.......................................NO! not with the school systems not even teaching penmanship but we can keep showing them and teaching our customers. Most of the buyers I sell them to are well educated, executives but a few are first time users and as today one 13 year old that KNEW how to use it and KNEW what he wanted, he also had a great set of parents who also bought one.

 

[bensoelberg]

The teacher actually had the nerve to mark him unprepared for class because he didn't have a "Bic" and I had to go talk to the school admin to fight for his right to use a fountain pen . What has this country become ?

My students give me dirty looks when I tell them that I didn't bring pens and paper for them. I seriously can't believe your son's teacher said he was unprepared. Your son is welcome in my classroom anytime.

 

[monophoto]

Fountain pens are more common in Europe than in the US. That is also the case in China where there a number of fountain pen manufacturers. I get almost as many stares when I use my fountain pen in public as I do when I used my 4x5 film camera.

But alas, the ballpoint is still king. In fact, in Europe, ballpoints are commonly referred to as "Birro's" in honor of the inventor of that technology.

I've been using fountain pens for a long time - almost as long as Smitty (but I think he's older than me). In fact, I have a Parker 45 on my desk right now that I was given as a high school graduation gift 38 years ago - it's inked (with Noodler's ink - we can blend modern with traditional) and ready to go. When I was in college, I used Rapidograph technical fountain pens and India ink to take notes, and those notes are still very legible.

 

[tbroye]

I am 68 and I can remember learning to write in Cursive using a dip pen and a bottle of ink that was in the ink well (hole in desk) Kind of a pain if I remember as the paper we use was more like newsprint and the nib had to be cleaned constantly. I do remember how excited we were when we got to use the pen and ink. Don't think I used a pen of any kind until Jr. High School when we started writing composition and term papers.

 

[TellicoTurning]

I wonder if anyone else has the gut feeling that fountain pen use might be much greater in other parts of the world than the US.

Are there places in the world where kids are actually taught in school how to use a fountain pen ? Are there countries where writing with a fountain pen is still common? Are there places where a fountain pen is a symbol of prestege or power?

In the 1940's when I started school, we sat at desks that had a hole in them for an ink well. But, by then, the school(s) had already stopped using pens and were teaching us to write strictly with pencils.

Some of my older siblings who range to as much as 26 years older than me, learned to write using pen and ink (normally a dip pen not a fountain pen) and carried a fountain pen. My parents alwasy wrote letters with a fountain pen. Yet, I don't remember anyone from my years of work at IBM or my time in the navy who pulled out a fountain pen to write with.

I'm curious about this because there are so many folks who are making, and I assume selling, fountain pens. Are there that many pen collectors out there? Or, are there folks actually using them as their day in day out pen.

I don't know about other places, but I do know other times... when I was in high school in the mid/late '50's all our papers were done in ink and we were require to use the fountain pen... any paper turned in in ball point was either rejected or the grade point was lowered by a few points because it wasn't in proper form. I only started using the ball point after I got out in the fleet and only because it was more convenient than the fountain pen.

And Roy made a good point, our kids today aren't even taught penmanship... I remember sitting and doing "O" on paper to make sure I knew how to do the circular letters and "W" to make the straight line letters... one of the few things that didn't take or stay with me in school... my handwriting would make a brain surgeon's look like proper calligraphy. I generally tell people, "after the ink drys, even I can't read my writing... I have no idea what I wrote.. can't read it."

 

[Padre]

The teacher actually had the nerve to mark him unprepared for class because he didn't have a "Bic" and I had to go talk to the school admin to fight for his right to use a fountain pen . What has this country become ?

Absolutely Ben! My students give me dirty looks when I tell them that I didn't bring pens and paper for them. I seriously can't believe your son's teacher said he was unprepared. Your son is welcome in my classroom anytime.

I wouldn't blame the teachers most of the time. My wife, at the beginning of every year, orders 10 cases, yes, cases of printer paper, 1 case of lined paper, 2 cases of pencils and 2 cases of pocket notebooks. Gone by February/March, every year. We ended up buying her a used copier and she has it in her 'office' (spare bedroom, although I challenge any of you to find a place to sleep in there!) And yes, we do write it off.

I used a FP my whole life, even through my ministry. Cross makes a nice, mid-level FP in my estimation.

 

[TellicoTurning]

I no longer try to use a fountain pen.. over they years in my career as an international shipping clerk, manager, etc... I got so used to having to write through as many as 15 copies of a waybill or document that I write way too heavy handed for a fountain pen. My wife like the roller balls, but I can't even use them 'cause I write so hard... I am getting better now, but still have to think about what I'm about to do when I write. Mostly I just type so people can actually ready what I write.

 

[Smitty37]

Not a user

Fountain pens are more common in Europe than in the US. That is also the case in China where there a number of fountain pen manufacturers. I get almost as many stares when I use my fountain pen in public as I do when I used my 4x5 film camera.

But alas, the ballpoint is still king. In fact, in Europe, ballpoints are commonly referred to as "Birro's" in honor of the inventor of that technology.

I've been using fountain pens for a long time - almost as long as Smitty (but I think he's older than me). In fact, I have a Parker 45 on my desk right now that I was given as a high school graduation gift 38 years ago - it's inked (with Noodler's ink - we can blend modern with traditional) and ready to go. When I was in college, I used Rapidograph technical fountain pens and India ink to take notes, and those notes are still very legible.

Personally I'm not a fountain pen user...I'm not sure I know how but I think i'm going to make myself one...I am older than a lot more folks than are older than me.

 

[Texatdurango]

FP Question,
I just started noseing around looking at pen nibs. Are they all that expensive? What is the difference between the nib that comes in the kit and one of those that sell for $100? There has to be something different but being a dumb electrician, if it doesn't spark then I'm not in the know.

There's no comparison. A $100 18k nib writes smoothly and doesn't skip. The crap that comes on the pen kits is scratchy and worthless, really.

I just wish I could find a source for affordable nibs that are of as good a quality as Montblanc, but they make their own

With all due respect, the above comment could not be farther from the truth!

While not a fountain pen expert by any means, I have been making and using fountain pens, both kit pens and my own creations on a daily basis for about two years and have found no correlation between the materail a nib is made from and how well it writes.

I have hundreds of nibs consisting of 14k gold, 18k gold, kit steel nibs, "upgraded" steel nibs and glass nibs and have found that you will have good and bad in every category.

Probably the best writing/flowing nib I use is a lowly "Dayacom" kit nib and the worst I ever tried that I couldn't get tuned well was an 18k nib purchased as an upgrade.

I mention this because so many folks on the forum take for granted everything they read here and many are tossing away perfectly fine writing nibs just because of unfounded comments made by others, quite often not based on their own personal experiences but just because several others say the same thing.

Before trashing any "worthless kit nib", I would suggest trying it out to see how it writes, you might be pleasantly surprised! Does a "fountain pen snob" or collector want a Chines nib....... no, BUT, that's another story in itself and has nothing to do with how they write.

 

[skywizzard]

I love my FP's and use them exclusively except when having to press through copies or on that d*** thermal paper. That said, I believe all my fountain pen sales have been made either by someone seeing my FP and asking me to make one for them, or being referred by someone. I don't believe I have ever sold one at a show.....

As for the topic, like Texatdurango said, there are good and bad in every price category, but before making and definite conclusions, give the nib a few days to "break in" before declaring it a loss.

 

[ldb2000]

George is absolutely correct , kit nibs are not all "Scratchy and Worthless" and a $100 18K nib is not necessarily a better nib . Most kit nibs are acceptable in quality and can be tuned to give a very nice feel when writing . Out of the box they are usually acceptable but during transport and assembly can be very easily knocked out of alignment and then the writing quality suffers . A scratchy nib is usually a sign that the nib tines were misaligned and most of the time this happens when the pen is being assembled . This is easily seen with a simple 10X loupe . The other reason for a scratchy nib is that it wasn't properly polished . This is not very common but is still easily repairable by a quick smoothing on a piece of 12,000 MM .
Skipping and flow problems are usually due to a misaligned nib and feed . If the nib is not centered correctly over the feed channel it will have poor flow and will skip due to the fact that the capillary action is broken by the misalignment . This also usually happens during assembly of the pen . Dirt/oils in the feed channel is another reason for poor flow and skipping problems , a quick cleaning in clean warm water will almost always fix this problem .
18K gold nibs are not really any better writing nibs then are the Stainless steel nibs . The bottom line is that you don't write with the Gold part of the nib , you write with the Iridium tipping of any nib and the gold just holds that part in place . Gold nibs do not "flex" any more then a Stainless nib unless it was designed to do so . For the most part the Gold nibs are just a status symbol , nothing more .
FP's like Mont Blanc tend to write better not because they have better nibs but because their nibs have been tested and tuned to write better . Our kit nibs can write just as smoothly as theirs if we take the time to learn something about how to tune them and make them write correctly .

 

[Smitty37]

Thanks folks

Thanks everybody .... I think I got my questioned answered...

 

[panini]

Hi Smitty, This is what is the elementary school is doing..interesting article..

Learning to write the manuscript

 

[ThomJ]

Used dip pen & ink well til the 5 grade

 

[glycerine]

Thanks so much for the info on the different pen nibs. When I was a very young child, my grand parent allowed me to use an old FP. I loved it and tried to use one when I started college. Locating good ink was a problem then. I think I will try to make me a new one for myself. I always loved the way the ink just flowed onto the paper, almost s by magic.If you were going to make one just for yourself, which kit would you chose?

My personal favorite FP right now is a jr. gent with a steel Bock nib. The only reason I have a Bock nib is because I wrote them and asked for samples. I was thinking of making a large purchase from them (group buy, basically), but I'm still in limbo with that decision. I also have used Lou's nibs and like them as well. And like others have said, the kit nibs can write just fine, try it before purchasing another. I just happen to like the Bock that I have, it's very smooth. And as far as ink, I've only tried a few different brands, but so far, Sailor has been the best IMHO.

 

[bitshird]

At my last show, I sold a fountain Pen to a Chinese girl who is a student at Vanderbilt University, she told me they are taught in school to write with a fountain Pen and she does not like using a Ball Point, in fact I sold her a bottle of Private reserve American Blue as well, I had several colors of Cartridges, but she preferred bottled ink and a converter, it was a genuine pleasure watching the lady try several pens, fortunately I had some Rhodia note paper for her to write on, she selected a very pretty Jr Gent, with one of Neils PhotoChromic blanks, we sold two Fountain pens at that show, one to an older lady and one to this young girl, Most of the shows I do we sell at least one fountain pen, a few shows we sell several sets.

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmmmm

Hi Smitty, This is what is the elementary school is doing..interesting article..

Learning to write the manuscript

Well when I went to school we learned to write cursive and read print at the same time...1st grade (didn't have kindergarden where I went)...didn't really learn much about writing "manuscript" until probably about 4th or 5th grade. All through school all papers were written incursive.

 

[patsikes]

It is also amazing what writing figure-eights on a brown paper bag can do for a kit nib. Just a little TLC and steel kit nibs can be great!