Forum Confusion

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
jeff

jeff

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
9,043
Location
Westlake, OH, USA.
I was revisiting the topic of changing the name of the Advanced Pen Making forum which was discussed here last summer.

I was looking around that forum trying to get a sense of the topics, and I see that it has turned nearly completely into a Show Off Your Pens for kitless! The intent of that forum was for discussions related to advanced penmaking, not just photos. There is a plethora of beautiful pen photos I've never even had the pleasure of considering for the front page because I look in SOYP for those. YIKES!

How can we best remedy this? Do we actually NEED a separate place for kitless and custom photos? Why can't they go in the existing SOYP forum?
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Firstly, I realize that on a website such as this IAP site, there is a shortage of "room" for all the desirable forums and sub-forums.

However, there is something about the words "Advanced" and "Kitless" that attracts my attention and I'd like to retain that attraction.

On this website there is a tendency for some "important stuff" to get "lost" rather quickly . . . that is already unfortunate.

For these reasons I would like the "Advanced Pen Making" forum to be retained. . . A suitable name change would be OK, though.
 
Probably not, if the behavior is to use SOYP. Or maybe, leave as is and you post will drive folks to it.
 
I might create a subforum under SYOP for kitless, but I would keep the advanced pen making forum. If it's a post to show off a pen rather than asking a question, move it to SOYP and encourage members to post there instead.
 
magpens said:
Firstly, I realize that on a website such as this IAP site, there is a shortage of "room" for all the desirable forums and sub-forums.

However, there is something about the words "Advanced" and "Kitless" that attracts my attention and I'd like to retain that attraction.

On this website there is a tendency for some "important stuff" to get "lost" rather quickly . . . that is already unfortunate.

For these reasons I would like the "Advanced Pen Making" forum to be retained. . . A suitable name change would be OK, though.
Click to expand...

I believe there was agreement on retaining it but changing the name to Kitless & Custom Penmaking.

What I discovered was that most of the posts in there are not discussions, they're just usual SOYP type threads.

We could split or augment the current SOYP forum for Kitless & Custom, but I don't see where it's needed. Putting all the show off posts in one place gives a real variety when scrolling through the photos.
 
jeff said:
I believe there was agreement on retaining it but changing the name to Kitless & Custom Penmaking.

What I discovered was that most of the posts in there are not discussions, they're just usual SOYP type threads.

We could split or augment the current SOYP forum for Kitless & Custom, but I don't see where it's needed. Putting all the show off posts in one place gives a real variety when scrolling through the photos.
Click to expand...

Over the last 2-3 years I have noticed a significant increase in interest and activity in Kitless and Custom Penmaking.

Although many of the threads/posts have been of a "show off" type, more discussion and "how-to" has been apparent.

I believe this "how-to" will increase in the near future. . More people will be asking "how-to" questions and talking about "how" it's done.

One such topic of recent interest is the "sleeving" of Custom Pen wood barrels with ebonite. . We need to learn the "how" of this.

So I would maintain my argument to have a separate, clearly-identified "Advanced, Custom and Kitless Forum" separate from SOYP.
In fact, that is the name I would propose for this forum as a change from "Advanced Pen Making" which is not sufficiently specific.

Let's solicit others' opinions and hear what others say about having such an "Advanced, etc." forum going forward.
 
I believe that forum came about because at one time we had some really talented people here doing unusual things other than just kitless. They combined methods to make kitless as well as unique pens. I can name names but surely will leave out a few. Here was your introduction into it.
/www.penturners.org/threads/welcome.4281/

Now this may come off abit unpopular but it is true. Just go back to the beginning of that forum and many of the other forums and look at the talent that was here. Over the years we lost many and replacements have been far and few. Do not get me wrong there are still many fine and truly talented people here doing extraordinary things, but I think we have become a Newbie site where the attendance drops off rapidly because I believe the nature of the younger mentality. It has been discussed here that the average age is above 50 for sure. I have been here a long time and have seen the change. When you (Jeff) started this forum the rage was make a hand made pen. There were only 2 sites that dealt with pens. Now there are many facebook sites and it plays into the younger minds. There were far fewer kits available so people were more creative. Now things have changed drastically in amount of kits, amount of premade blanks, and so on. I believe also back then we talked shop alot more than today.

I do not think you need to move the forum but maybe increase awareness by getting creative with the name as you are trying. Plus and this is another unpopular thought I am sure, to have a moderator monitor the site and move threads around to where they should be posted. It would help clean up the entire forum. You see this on many forums where threads are moved. Paying someone for this can be a problem.

Just a few other thoughts, maybe have a sub forum under show off your pens. Again I hate bringing old thoughts up but it shows I have been here a long time. When the pen world starting experimenting with the field of segmenting and making stunning blanks doing this it was talked about and both side were presented on having a separate forum for showing off segmented pens. This never panned out so Mike and I discussed doing something on our own and he ran with it and this thread became popular with segmenters and hopefully still is today.
www.penturners.org/threads/no-comments-just-post-new-segmented-pens-and-likes.111419/ We tried to get this thread posted as a sticky on top of the segmenting page. There are alot of great looking pens in there too. that get overlooked. But the big argument was how about casters and this is also true. So this is where this can get tricky by adding a subforum for showing pens.

Just my thoughts on the topic.


Skiprat, we all know his talents
Brad, did his chemical etching stuff

Texatdurango

George was making special clips for his kitless

greeneyedblackcat, Jim made some creative pens

Many many more.
 
Last edited:
Just as a matter of interest, the UK version has sub forums under the 'show off your pens' forum which includes;
Acrylic turned pens
Corian turned pens
Wood turned pens
Other turned pens etc
and mostly people post their pens in the right place.
Other sub forums could include
Kitless
Segmented etc.

Alan
 
ADD a note at the top of the Kitless Forum so that anyone posting a New Thread will see that SYOP is a different forum.

BUT, this particular confusion of picture accumulation and location is a good confusion to have. Things ARE working!
 
SOYP was (is?) intended to be the place to show off all finished pens, regardless of their type, material, method, etc. Most of the threads get compliments, but only a small percentage see much discussion about materials (other than "what is it and where did you get it") and methods.

I realize that for custom (kitless, advanced, magic -- whatever we want to call it) work, more discussion is somewhat likely. I'd say about 25% of the thread in the advance forum go beyond compliments and into some detail about methods and such. Trouble is, you never know which ones will go that way! Interestingly, I notice a similar trend in the Fountain Pen forum.

This is a real conundrum! SOYP was supposed to be the place to show off completed pens, while the other specialty forums were envisioned as places to discuss. BUT, sometimes those things happen simultaneously in the same thread! I'd like to satisfy people's desire to keep the specialty forums, but

It is possible to have a parent forum "aggregate" all threads from it's children. So if we have

1 - Show Off and Discuss Your Completed Pens
A - Kit​
B - Kitless / Custom​
C - Segmented​
D - Fountain​

We can have all threads started in subforums A, B, C, D to appear in the parent forum 1. The purpose of this feature is to allow segregation of content in specialty subforums while exposing the content to people just browsing at the main forum level. In other words, you don't have to dig into subforums to see the content posted there.

We could leave the Advanced Pen Forum (renamed as Kitless & Custom) for discussion. Nothing wrong with posting a photo if it helps with discussion, but its primary purpose would not be showing off completed pens.

I might investigate implementing that.
 
jeff said:
SOYP was (is?) intended to be the place to show off all finished pens, regardless of their type, material, method, etc. Most of the threads get compliments, but only a small percentage see much discussion about materials (other than "what is it and where did you get it") and methods.

I realize that for custom (kitless, advanced, magic -- whatever we want to call it) work, more discussion is somewhat likely. I'd say about 25% of the thread in the advance forum go beyond compliments and into some detail about methods and such. Trouble is, you never know which ones will go that way! Interestingly, I notice a similar trend in the Fountain Pen forum.

This is a real conundrum! SOYP was supposed to be the place to show off completed pens, while the other specialty forums were envisioned as places to discuss. BUT, sometimes those things happen simultaneously in the same thread! I'd like to satisfy people's desire to keep the specialty forums, but

It is possible to have a parent forum "aggregate" all threads from it's children. So if we have

1 - Show Off and Discuss Your Completed Pens
A - Kit​
B - Kitless / Custom​
C - Segmented​
D - Fountain​

We can have all threads started in subforums A, B, C, D to appear in the parent forum 1. The purpose of this feature is to allow segregation of content in specialty subforums while exposing the content to people just browsing at the main forum level. In other words, you don't have to dig into subforums to see the content posted there.

We could leave the Advanced Pen Forum (renamed as Kitless & Custom) for discussion. Nothing wrong with posting a photo if it helps with discussion, but its primary purpose would not be showing off completed pens.

I might investigate implementing that.
Click to expand...
I like the direction you are following. Hopefully what ever flows out will be used and appreciated. The divisions you mentioned above: #1, A,B,C,D seem logical and intuitive. Easy to follow, easy to get to the focus of our individual tastes. Be well!
 
jeff said:
SOYP was (is?) intended to be the place to show off all finished pens, regardless of their type, material, method, etc. Most of the threads get compliments, but only a small percentage see much discussion about materials (other than "what is it and where did you get it") and methods.

I realize that for custom (kitless, advanced, magic -- whatever we want to call it) work, more discussion is somewhat likely. I'd say about 25% of the thread in the advance forum go beyond compliments and into some detail about methods and such. Trouble is, you never know which ones will go that way! Interestingly, I notice a similar trend in the Fountain Pen forum.

This is a real conundrum! SOYP was supposed to be the place to show off completed pens, while the other specialty forums were envisioned as places to discuss. BUT, sometimes those things happen simultaneously in the same thread! I'd like to satisfy people's desire to keep the specialty forums, but

It is possible to have a parent forum "aggregate" all threads from it's children. So if we have

1 - Show Off and Discuss Your Completed Pens
A - Kit​
B - Kitless / Custom​
C - Segmented​
D - Fountain​

We can have all threads started in subforums A, B, C, D to appear in the parent forum 1. The purpose of this feature is to allow segregation of content in specialty subforums while exposing the content to people just browsing at the main forum level. In other words, you don't have to dig into subforums to see the content posted there.

We could leave the Advanced Pen Forum (renamed as Kitless & Custom) for discussion. Nothing wrong with posting a photo if it helps with discussion, but its primary purpose would not be showing off completed pens.

I might investigate implementing that.
Click to expand...
Evidently my link to your intro into the Advanced Forum failed so will try again. It is a good idea to read back on some of the older threads in there to get an idea what its intent was all about. Some place along the way it lost that meaning and became a place to show pens such as kitless.
www.penturners.org/threads/welcome.4281/

Jeff your break down has merit. Fountain and kitless is probably an overlap because seems most kitless are fountain.
 
I think all three are serving their purpose. We definitely see a great variety of pens in the SOYP forum. There have been a few tutorials in Advanced Pen making (i.e Custom Clips) that have been useful, but I think there could be more if members are encouraged to post questions, and other more experienced members share their techniques.
 
I believe, that the pictures started showing up in the Advanced forum, more as makers looking for critics and advice on there initial forays. Naturally, the Advance/Kitless group is the perfect place to attract critics from a specific segment of makers. I think however, that it has become more a SOYP thing. But there are still those looking for honest critic and advice.
We could also set a guideline. If the picture is of a finished pen, looking for comments and critics, it goes into SOYP. In the advance group it should only be "in progress" shots asking advice or critics to a specific issue, ie.... barrel threading.
I think the only way to fix this is through moderation. Someone to evaluate and, if necessary, move the post to the SOYP forum.

Just my thoughts.
 
I like having an advanced thread that focuses on techniques versus show off your pen, but I also believe that presenting a technique is better served by showing pictures of same. It's already been mentioned about learning how to sleeve, thread, add a clip, etc but finding a good learning post on same seems more prone to finished work pics versus in process pics.

We do not get lots of 'in process' pics versus 'finished pen' pics - so my vote would be add the words 'Techniques' to the forum title where applicable and drive end result pens to SOYP.
 
jeff said:
There is a plethora of beautiful pen photos I've never even had the pleasure of considering for the front page because I look in SOYP for those.
Click to expand...
Though I did get the intention of "Advanced Pen Making" being for discussion when it was created, I typically browse the recent threads section of the home page, so I tend to see those SOYP type postings without really paying too much attention to what forum they are in. You are certainly correct in that there are some absolutely amazing pens shown there! I would say that, if nobody is complaining about it, let's let it be. Maybe just add a sticky suggesting to use SOYP to actually SOYP and encourage discussion instead in the APM?

NJturner said:
be add the words 'Techniques' to the forum title
Click to expand...
This is a great suggestion, too.
 
NJturner said:
I like having an advanced thread that focuses on techniques versus show off your pen, but I also believe that presenting a technique is better served by showing pictures of same. It's already been mentioned about learning how to sleeve, thread, add a clip, etc but finding a good learning post on same seems more prone to finished work pics versus in process pics.

We do not get lots of 'in process' pics versus 'finished pen' pics - so my vote would be add the words 'Techniques' to the forum title where applicable and drive end result pens to SOYP.
Click to expand...
That's an excellent suggestion.
 
I think the way it was intended is best. SOYP for all finished pens of all persuasions, and advanced penmaking for discussion on techniques and ideas.
I love the feature at the top of the thread when you open one in SOYP, that you can click on and it lists all SOYP threads from that particular member, I think this is great and use it often. People who post their finished pens in other places miss out on having all their pens accessible on one page with one click.
I would be in favour of a moderator moving finished pen threads to the correct forum.
I think I would also be in favour of splitting the advanced pen making forum up into subsections of different advanced techniques discussions, eg, kitless, segmenting, metalsmithing etc. This would make it easier to find stuff.
 
Thank you all for many great suggestions!

I have changed the name of the Advanced Penmaking forum to Kitless, Custom, & Advanced Techniques

I have also updated the Forum Purpose Sticky and included the recommendation to post finished pens in SOYP. As time permits, I will move existing threads from the renamed forum to SOYP. I will likely be restructuring SOYP soon to include some subcategories.
 
jeff said:
Thank you all for many great suggestions!

I have changed the name of the Advanced Penmaking forum to Kitless, Custom, & Advanced Techniques

I have also updated the Forum Purpose Sticky and included the recommendation to post finished pens in SOYP. As time permits, I will move existing threads from the renamed forum to SOYP. I will likely be restructuring SOYP soon to include some subcategories.
Click to expand...
I like the idea. It probably is the best way out of that. It would be nice if the members take the time to look over the entire site and enjoy the work that has been done here by you and many others to make it the best pen making forum on the net. It also gives people an idea where to post their questions, ideas, photos, and even sales. It would help us all to keep the site clean and easier to find threads. There is so much info stored here over various threads and forums that if your question can not be answered here then it just can not be answered.:) Thanks once again Jeff for keeping the lights on and doing what you do.
 
Another benefit of posting in SOYP is that every image posted there gets automatically mirrored in a special photo album category called, surprisingly enough, SOYP Image Mirror Every image in the album is linked back to the SOYP thread where it was posted. This is a great way to peruse lots of SOYP photos.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom