Forstner bits from CS or MLCS

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byounghusband

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ok,
I have a couple Crushgrind Pepper mills and need to get some GOOD</u> Forstner bits in 15/16", 1-1/16", 1-9/16", and 1-3/4". I have looked at the ones CS sells and they don't describe them well. The 4 bit set from them is $33.50 and an extender is $11.95 for a total of $45.45.
MLCS has good quality steel with titanium coating. The four individual bits plus the extender are $46.75.
The difference is only $1.35.

My question is: Has anyone purchased the bits from CS and how are they. I pretty much know the MLCS are good quality and I wouldn't hesitate to get them unless the CS bits are that much better.....

Thanks for your opinions!!
 
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This comes up occasionally. I'll toss in my tuppence. IMHO: Forstner bits are a poor choice for end grain drilling into hard-hardwoods. I came to this conclusion very soon after I started making duck calls. (3/4" bore). Forstners are designed for cross-grain work in relatively thin stock. They do not lift and remove shavings like a fluted drill. In end grain they can heat and burn. Once I made the investment, not a little one, in a quality large brad point drill bit, the difference was amazing. If you plan on making any quantity of pepper mills, I strongly urge you to break the piggy bank and buy some large brad points.
 
Originally posted by byounghusband
<br />Gary,
It appears that Eagleamerica does not carry all the needed supplies.

Frank,
Do you have a good source for these large sized fluted brad point bits?

Thanks!!

Not sure where I bought mine. What I do when I need something is sit down with my pile of catalogs and start paging through. I know I bought them from one of the larger, well known, companies. If it comes to mind, I'll post again.
 
OK, my memory isn't shot yet. [;)] I had a hunch it might be Woodcraft. They have a large selection of bigger brad point bits in both standard and metric. Sizes run up to 1" and 30mm. Check out:
http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5566
for a start. There are more in the catalog, their website searcher is pretty crummy, it doesn't bring up everything they have.
BTW, you didn't ask, but a word of warning. If you get these, the large ones are easy to sharpen with a small diamond stone. But NEVER, NEVER EVER, sharpen the outside. Just hone the cutting edge from the inside.
 
Do these still make a fairly flat bottom hole if not drilling all of the way through? I am making some shaving brushes and want to drill for the recessed brush head.

Brian
 
Originally posted by FireMedic4Christ
<br />Do these still make a fairly flat bottom hole if not drilling all of the way through? I am making some shaving brushes and want to drill for the recessed brush head.

Brian

Not sure of your definition of "fairly flat". But, by mine, I would say 'yes'.
 
You might want to take a look at these bits sold at Lowes. I have not tried them but a very experienced turner friend recommends them. In the stores they have larger sets and more variety. The price is very reasonable. I plan on getting a set later this week.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=247354-281-3041003&lpage=none
 
Originally posted by frog21
<br />You might want to take a look at these bits sold at Lowes. I have not tried them but a very experienced turner friend recommends them. In the stores they have larger sets and more variety. The price is very reasonable. I plan on getting a set later this week.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=247354-281-3041003&lpage=none

Going end grain in hardwoods with a spade bit can be an unforgettable experience. I didn't say fun, just unforgettable when you might want to forget it. [;)]
I know somebody is going to jump on me here and say "I know a guy who uses a spade bit for...." [:p] Some spade bits, ground differently than these commercial jobbies are used for end grain. Don't count on these to do the job happily. For some end grain drilling a certain type of spoon bit works very well and is used by some master craftsmen. Downside there is they have to be made just right and at very low speeds. Also, chip removal is problematic, requiring frequent withdrawl of the drill and clearing. Unless you make it into an air drill/spoon bit, then you are off an running with very expensive equipment. Fuggitit, use brad points and be happy.
 
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />
Originally posted by frog21
<br />You might want to take a look at these bits sold at Lowes. I have not tried them but a very experienced turner friend recommends them. In the stores they have larger sets and more variety. The price is very reasonable. I plan on getting a set later this week.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=247354-281-3041003&lpage=none

Going end grain in hardwoods with a spade bit can be an unforgettable experience. I didn't say fun, just unforgettable when you might want to forget it. [;)]
I know somebody is going to jump on me here and say "I know a guy who uses a spade bit for...." [:p] Some spade bits, ground differently than these commercial jobbies are used for end grain. Don't count on these to do the job happily. For some end grain drilling a certain type of spoon bit works very well and is used by some master craftsmen. Downside there is they have to be made just right and at very low speeds. Also, chip removal is problematic, requiring frequent withdrawl of the drill and clearing. Unless you make it into an air drill/spoon bit, then you are off an running with very expensive equipment. Fuggitit, use brad points and be happy.

If you look more closely you will see that these are round fluted bits and not the typical flat spade bits.
 
Bob,
Here's my $.02
I really like the crush grind kit. Have made a few (more than a half dozen, less than a dozen, not exactly sure.)
With my initial crush grind kit order from CSU I also ordered the full set of forstner bits and extender. At the time they were backordered on the 1 1/16 bit and the extender. It was christmas time, and these were supposed to be gifts, time to improvise.... [;)]
I had a 1" spade bit and it appeared long enough that I just might be able to drill far enough to make things work. Checked the fit of the plastic cap fitting in a one inch hole. All seemed like it would work out fine, and it did. They worked just fine. I tried drilling on both the lathe and my drill press with the spade bit. Can't really say I would choose one over the other at this point. It wasn't really that bad drilling. Got a little warm, but not too bad. As Frank said, I do remember it, but then again I'm fairly young and I still remember quite a few things.... [}:)]
It worked out so well in fact that I called CSU and had them cancel the remaining bit and extender.
I have since purchased a set from HF that has a 1" so I will probably use that in the future along with the extender I ended up buying from CSU later on. I think I actually like the fit in a 1" hole better than I would in a 1 1/16.
As to the quality of the bits from CSU, I would say they are better than what the HF set is, but not that much better. I have been using all of them quite a bit lately for some other turning projects and sharpen both brands regularly with a handheld diamond hone/file. Just a quick touchup of the underside of the cutting surface and they seem to be cutting just fine again.
Ok, after the ribbing, now on to Frank's defense, (I know you don't really need it.) [;)]
I can see how the brad point bits would do a great job in this instance, especially for the long bore you have to do for the body of the mill. You don't really care if you are boring a perfectly flat bottomed hole for that shot because your either cut off the end or drill right through anyway, right?
So, let's go through the drilling steps, as I remember them, not looking at instructions right now.
Body:
Drill step 1
1 3/4
this first bore is only going an inch or two into the blank if I remember right. Forstner works just fine for this, even though it's on endgrain. A brad point bit would also work just fine here since in your next step you're going to be drilling out almost all of the bottom of the hole anyway. (But I'm not sure I can even imagine the huge bit that a 1 3/4 brad point bit would be, mabye I'm not picturing it correctly, but that seems like it would be a pretty hefty chunk of drill bit!) All you really need is a shoulder for the edge of the grind mechanism to sit and be glued onto, and with step two coming up, you'll see it ends up being not much of a shoulder left anyway.
Drill step 2
1 9/16
You're going straight from where you just drilled with the slightly bigger bit and still only going an inch or two deep here. Again, forstner works just fine, and again, I can hardly imagine the huge brad point bit that would be required to do this fairly shallow, easy bore.
Drilling step 3
1 1/16 (or 1" for me [:)] )
This is really the biggie. You're going deep on this one, depending on the length you're planning on making your body. Here I can see where Frank's Brad point may shine. The bit, at one inch is almost half the size, and probably price, I haven't checked, as what you would have been dealing with for the first couple bores. As I said, I have used both a spade bit and a forstner bit for this step, and I honestly can't say which one I prefer. I think the forstner actually heats up more, but cuts a cleaner hole. But who really cares how clean the hole is, it's deep inside the body anyway, and a little sandpaper cleans it up nicely and quickly. Your choice here. I'd probably go with the brad point but it can be done with other tools.
Drill step 4
Cap
This again is a fairly shallow hole and still smaller than any other yet. no biggie for the forstner.
Well, far more than my .02 here but there you have it a full nickel's worth [:I]
Good luck and feel free to PM me if you have any specific quesitons I might be able to answer down the line.
 
I would stick with Frank's insight on the brad points. Spade bits are VERY risky. Another thing you really need to be carful on with the spade and forstner bits is being straight. The spade bit can be dangerous when it is not straight. You also need to be careful on the exstenders for for the forstner as well as the bit. I had a 3/4 that was not straight out of the box, which leads to my next point....

MLCS is not high/good quality anything. It is all just average imports. Their routers, router bits, tables all of it is fairly cheap. I have bought from them for years and things like their router bits are what I call throw aways. Finish the project then throw the bit away as it does not hold an edge and I have had them break on me. Stick with the best quality you can find and afford, especially drilling an end grain as it will get hot and you can warp a bit if you get it too hot. Frank is right about the woodcraft bits, they are good but they are not cheap either.


Mike
 
Here is a semi-review of a set from one of our own.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24098&SearchTerms=MLCS
Mark,
I checked into these, and unfortuately, they do not come in the sizes required for the Crush-Grind mechanisms from CSU...

Thanks anyway!![:D]
 
Mike,
Thanks for the extended comments. I will check into using the 1" instead of the 1-1/16" bit. Might be easier to find as well.....I agree with the fact that only the 1" bit for the end-to-end boring is the one that MUST have the brad point bit. But being the tool junkie that I am, well[:I], I might go brad point all the way. Cost is a factor too.....
 
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