First Attempt At Threading Wood

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
See more from Ken Wines

Ken Wines

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
277
Location
Charleston, WV
This was my first attempt at making threads on an all wood (except for the nib) rollerball pen. I received my thread mill cutter for the CNC and wanted to immediately try it out (it's a boy and their toys thing). Admittedly black palm is not the best candidate for taking threads but it was already rounded and ready to go.

IMG_6287.JPG

IMG_6289.JPG


IMG_6290.JPG


Ebony was used for the nib section because the blank wasn't long enough to accommodate it in black palm. M12 x 0.8 triple start threads for the body to cap mating. 3/8" - 40 threads were used for the section to body mating. M6.5 x 0.5 threads used for the Schmidt Refillable Rollerball nib. No taps and dies were used in the making of this pen. The thread mill cutter pictured below cut all the threads that are used in the pen. Using it, you are able to cut full depth threads very close to the shoulder on the tenon. There is no end to end play in the threads, so I have to believe they are cut pretty close to the tolerances listed in the Machinery Handbook. The threads fit and move great straight of the machine. When cutting threads with taps and dies (and maybe it could be the adjustment on my dies), I've always had to "work" them for a little while to get smooth movement.

IMG_6263.JPG


You will notice an extra 1/2" tenon cut below the the M12 tenon. It is there for a purpose. To center the bit with collet chuck, I have a routine that "touches off" on the inside taper of the collet chuck on 8 differ points every 45 degrees around the circle. The X and Y values are recorded and the average X and average Y are called the 0, 0 coordinates. The routine runs at least 2 times and continues to run until the deviation between the current run and the last run is 0.001" or less. This could take up to 5 iterations to meet that criteria. The centering routine doesn't have to be run after each blank is cut. Many blanks could be cut but the routine should be run periodically. Anyway getting back to the extra tenon... because I know that the setup is probably not perfect. the extra tenon is cut and should be concentric with the threads that were just cut. This allows me to chuck the extra tenon up in a collet chuck and make the rest of the blank concentric with the threads.

Now for the disclaimers.
I don't intend to sell all wooden pens. This was an experiment to see if wood could be threaded and black palm was probably one of the worst case scenarios to try it on.
I'm not saying that this is the best way to cut threads. Personally, I doubt if I use my taps and dies much in the future. I see some advantage to cutting threads using this method when it comes to difficult materials such as polyester resins, acrylic acetate, etc. If you wanted to cut left handed threads just to mess with that special someone in your life, it could be easily done without bearing the expense of additional taps and dies.

I'm pretty happy with the results from the experiment and time will tell as to the longevity of the threads.
 
Last edited:
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

PatrickR

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,427
Location
Rural America
very nice Work. I like the overall look.
palm is actually a good choice when considering longevity. It is not wood and is very stable. Basically a 1:1 expansion ratio.
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,912
Location
Canada
@Ken Wines
This work is quite amazing, Ken, in my opinion !!

One question (or two !) for now . . . but likely I'll have more later . . .

Is the cutter carbide and what is its rotational speed when making those threads ?
 

Ken Wines

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
277
Location
Charleston, WV
very nice Work. I like the overall look.
palm is actually a good choice when considering longevity. It is not wood and is very stable. Basically a 1:1 expansion ratio.
Thank you, Patrick! Not a lot of effort was put into the making of the shape. I did opt for a little taper on the body!
 

Ken Wines

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
277
Location
Charleston, WV
@Ken Wines
This work is quite amazing, Ken, in my opinion !!

One question (or two !) for now . . . but likely I'll have more later . . .

Is the cutter carbide and what is its rotational speed when making those threads ?
Mal, it is a 4 flute carbide cutter. Cost me about $21 + shipping USD from a supplier out of Oregon on Ebay! I run it at full tilt boogey 24K rpm at full thread depth single pass on wood. Feedrate in IPM is 30 or 40. The small bites it takes doesn't seem to melt the plastics at 24K. The first plastic I cut I went with 6K (the low end on my VFD spindle). If you're interested in the cutter I will get the link to the specific item I bought. It has a 3/16" shank and with reduced kneck can reach 1" inside a hole or outside on a tenon. If I recall the diameter of the cutter is 0.18" which allow me to also cut the nib threads.
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,912
Location
Canada
Mal, it is a 4 flute carbide cutter. Cost me about $21 + shipping USD from a supplier out of Oregon on Ebay! I run it at full tilt boogey 24K rpm at full thread depth single pass on wood. Feedrate in IPM is 30 or 40. The small bites it takes doesn't seem to melt the plastics at 24K. The first plastic I cut I went with 6K (the low end on my VFD spindle). If you're interested in the cutter I will get the link to the specific item I bought. It has a 3/16" shank and with reduced kneck can reach 1" inside a hole or outside on a tenon. If I recall the diameter of the cutter is 0.18" which allow me to also cut the nib threads.
@Ken Wines

Thanks for these details, Ken.
One further question already . . . How many passes to get the full thread depth (repeated for each of the 3 "starts") ?

Also .... Not quite clear on the meaning of "kneck" as used in this context.
An online dictionary suggests :- "The twisting of a rope or cable, as it is running out."
 
Last edited:

Ken Wines

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
277
Location
Charleston, WV
@Ken Wines

Thanks for these details, Ken.
One further question already . . . How many passes to get the full thread depth (repeated for each of the 3 "starts") ?

Also .... Not quite clear on the meaning of "kneck" as used in this context.
An online dictionary suggests :- "The twisting of a rope or cable, as it is running out."
Mal, here is a link to the ebay listing. The item seems to be out of stock at the moment but it gives a picture of the cutter outside of the router. www.ebay.com/itm/255128664942?ViewItem=&item=255128664942&nma=true&si=qZ84pbsrcwXMqwfnZa7N11G1Rqw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

If you look at my picture all the way top you will see the ER-11 spindle nut and a 3/16" collet. Notice that there is a taper just below the spindle, here is where the 3/16" shank tapers down to a 0.115" neck diameter (I guess my misspelling of neck threw you off) Obviously a 0.18" cutter diameter will not work with a 0.1875" shank diameter and hence the neck. This gives you a 0.0325" projection of the v shaped wings to cut the threads. The manufacturer says that the TPI range of this cutter is 20-56.

Each helix of the thread in the triple start or the single start are cut at full calculated thread depth . I've been calling this a sharp v bit that comes to a point but apparently it must have a radius on the tips since the manufacturer is limiting the pitch range to 56 TPI, Anyway, on the M12 x 0.8 external threads I've been cutting at 0.024" thread depth and the internal at 0.020" thread depth. I could explain this further if you are confused by the difference in the depths. I like settings and to me the threads fit perfect, you don't have to work them a bit until they loosen up a little like when using tapped and died threads.

Also the threads are cut using a conventional cut (not climb). For right hand threads they helix down clockwise and left hand threads helix up clockwise.
 

CjG78

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
759
Location
Australia
Kenneth your amazing work always exites me, as soon as I see a post with your name, I know a wow and a long loving gaze at a picture will happen. You are a true master craftsman and this forum is lucky to have you in here.
Cheers, your fan boy, Casey 😆
 

Ken Wines

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
277
Location
Charleston, WV
I know this has already been expressed, but I must express it again. You threaded palm!?! Just wow. That must be one sharp cutter.

By the way, that pen is beautiful, too!
Thank you, Todd! It is indeed very sharp! I wish I'd known about this cutters a couple of years back when I first started my kitless adventure. I could have saved hundreds of dollars by not having to buy the specialty taps and dies necessary to make the threading for kitless pens. It's definitely a game changer for those hard to thread materials such as polyester resin and acrylic acetate. It's advantage is that only interacts with a very small segment of the thread as it traverses helically along the thread path. Taps and dies as you know, have tapered starting threads that eventually taper into full threads. Constant torque stresses are placed upon the threading path as they pull themselves through or around the object being threaded. The thread mill is also able to cut a full thread closer to the shoulder of a tenon than a die.
 

Ken Wines

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
277
Location
Charleston, WV
Kenneth your amazing work always exites me, as soon as I see a post with your name, I know a wow and a long loving gaze at a picture will happen. You are a true master craftsman and this forum is lucky to have you in here.
Cheers, your fan boy, Casey 😆
Thank you for your kind words, Casey! If I were to have a claim to fame, I suppose it would be as a blank maker. I've been moderately successful at it over the past few years. I was never a threat to the big boys like Kallenshaan or Laserlines. I saw no need to get into the artsy style of laser cut inlays with colored wood such as they make. I went the route of making seamless repeating geometric patterns and such. I always tried to take plain grained ordinary wood and make it into something that was interesting to look at. My favorite woods to work with have been walnut, maple and cherry. I've made 100's of blanks from that color combination. Last year when the pandemic started there were lots of pen turners unable to go to their day job and blank demand went through the roof. They were literally working me death, trying to keep up. By midyear I decided that this was insane (kind of like a dog chasing his tail) and pretty much shut down blank making activities. That freed up my time to pursue actual pen making. I've got a bucket load of ideas that I want to do with my slant on how I think things should be done. Hopefully I can keep making pens for the remainder of the year. As far as blank making, I'm basically done. Ideally, I could get someone local that I could train to take over that operation. If I decide to make more blanks it will be for a limited portion of the year.

Anyway, I must say that you are a pretty awesome pen maker yourself. I've been watching your evolution into the kitless aspect of penmaking. Keep up the good work and I'll be watching for more of your delightful creations.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom