First Amboyna Maj. Jr - Cracked CA

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candy1land

candy1land

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Alrighty then. Just when I thought I was getting the handle on this CA finish thing......sigh.

I just turned my first piece made out of amboyna burl for my first Majestic JR.

I made it on Saturday and today I just noticed what appears to be eggshell looking cracks all over the lower barrel.

There were also some other scratches near the ends I noticed too but I wrote those off to the pen being in my bag one of the days. In hindsight now I don't think I actually scratched the pen ever. I'm much too careful with it and it lives in a pen pouch when not in my hands....it is my VERY FIRST ONE!

So I took pics, I hope you can see some of what I'm talking about.

Why did this happen? And can it be re-done? I haven't worked with Amboyna before so all helpful hints are welcome. The pen was absolutely beautiful before the cracks showed up. It's one of the pens I want to start selling, but I can't do that until I figure this out. No one will want to purchase a pen like this only to have it crack like an egg on them in the first week of owning it.

Thanks,

Candy
 

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Moisture or lack there of? - has it been foggy and rainy in Southern California the last couple days? Was it dry and warm the prior couple of weeks? or visa versa?

Did you happen to leave it in the sunshine for a few hours? Could you have dropped it

Just throwing ideas out there...
 
jimbob91577 said:
Moisture or lack there of? - has it been foggy and rainy in Southern California the last couple days? Was it dry and warm the prior couple of weeks? or visa versa?

Did you happen to leave it in the sunshine for a few hours? Could you have dropped it

Just throwing ideas out there...
Click to expand...

It's been absolutely beautiful here this past week. It was in the low 70's and low humidity the night I finished it. No fog, rain or moisture to speak of really. And the past few days it's been great weather.

No sunshine. Didn't drop it.
 
I find amboyna is susceptible to heat (like .. sanding too aggressively) and
that can cause cracks to form.. not necessarily right away, either. I've had
a few come back after a week or two. Not happy....
 
NewLondon88 said:
I find amboyna is susceptible to heat (like .. sanding too aggressively) and
that can cause cracks to form.. not necessarily right away, either. I've had
a few come back after a week or two. Not happy....
Click to expand...

Any suggestions on how to avoid this mishap? Also does it matter that the wood was not stabilized amboyna? Does amboyna need to be?
 
I've never used (or seen) stabilizes amboyna, but I don't think it is necessary.
I now sand slower, stop often and use my fingers more to get a feel for how
much heat is being generated. If it gets warm, I stop. There's a few woods or
other materials I do that with if I think heat might be a problem.
 
Did you use a friction wax or polish over the C/A, seems like heat might have done it to you. I have done a lot of Amboyna and it is just a wonderful wood to turn and finish. Try and keep it at slower speeds when finishing, maybe that will help.
 
fernhills said:
Did you use a friction wax or polish over the C/A, seems like heat might have done it to you. I have done a lot of Amboyna and it is just a wonderful wood to turn and finish. Try and keep it at slower speeds when finishing, maybe that will help.
Click to expand...

I don't exactly remember but I think I did try out my buffer on it after I finished it to see what it would do to the finish. I think I only used white diamond on it just to get the shine up. And if I did it was only for a few seconds on each piece.

Would heat during production make the pen crack up a week later? That is the part I don't understand. Why the delay? It's been 4 days.
 
I would take it apart and strip it and refinish it. Don't try to fix it.

You might be able to determine if it is the wood or the finish. Either one can manifest cracking as a symptom of heat or movement.

Since it has been several days since you finished the pen I am leaning toward the wood moving but you just can't really tell unless you tear it down.

Was the wood totally dry?

Let us know what you learn
I've not worked Amboyna however.
Manny
 
I tend to think that the wood moved a bit..perhaps it was still a bit wt?? I'd strip and let sit for a couple days in dry environs and then finish again
 
My vote is heat. I have had a few do this, and I think that when I try too get my final shine with friction in my case I use plastic polish, the blank gets real hot to the touch.
I also use acelarator on my ca pens. this also generates a lot of heat.
It don't seem to be a particular wood problem for me. It don't happen very often , and it even happened on a clay pen that I did.
 
One thing I noticed is that temperature is a factor in your space that you turn in. I am in Hawthorne and the weather has been great. Literally just up the freeway from you. My garage stays cold though and since I usually turn and finish in the evening, I have found that I try to let my ca finishes cure for a good 24 hours before I go into the micro meshing and polishing stages. Also I have found that keeping the blanks clean with acetone between sandings and before ca application has an effect. also I learned a very quick lesson when I cracked a ca finish because I had not made sure the ends were hand milled flush with the tubes. I turn btc and have to make sure the ends are sanded carefully to flush with the tubes after i am done with the finish. pressure from the press/arbor could also be a factor.

just some thoughts.
 
If the wood was not dry-----it will crack and you can't stablize wet wood. I have a pile of Amboyna Burl that is three years old----every last blank is full of eggshell type cracks. Oz burls have a real bad rep for being very wet when shipped.
 
I agree with what several have said - green wood, too much moisture in it (not just from humidity.)

I have not had this problem and I have had quite a bit of amboyna. However, I have to consider my self fortunate as I have read of that egg shell cracking several times here - with amboyna.

Heat from turning/buffing and humidity changes can be a problem with unstabilized wood, along with particular woods.
 
Manny said:
I would take it apart and strip it and refinish it. Don't try to fix it.

You might be able to determine if it is the wood or the finish. Either one can manifest cracking as a symptom of heat or movement.

Since it has been several days since you finished the pen I am leaning toward the wood moving but you just can't really tell unless you tear it down.

Was the wood totally dry?

Let us know what you learn
I've not worked Amboyna however.
Manny
Click to expand...

I will do that...once I figure out the best way to disassemble the pen. I think the wood was dry - it seemed dry to me. Not sure how I would have known if the wood was wet.

I'll let you know what I see once the glue is back off.
 
The body is easy. Just unscrew the nib sections. Take out the ink insert and use a transfer punch to knock out the other end. Then turn it around and knock the other fitting out with a larger punch.

The cap is a bit harder see this post of a very good way to do this.
I found this method very useful
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55116

Here is another way. Never tried it.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52793&highlight=disassembly

If you don't have the transfer punches. Don't even try it. Harbor freight sells em for 10 bucks and they are often on sale.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3577
Manny
 
The more I have this issue the more I want to use only stabilized woods. Period. I'm currently stabilizing all of my woods with Plexitone at home, and it that doesn't work I'll move to either having the woods stabilized professionally, or buying commercially stabilized blanks fromt he get-go. Though I do like cutting my own blanks, so I'd rather keep to the home brew method.

But I had the same issue on another Ambonya burl pen I did. I vote moisture. I thiknk the heat thing is BS, especially if it's days later.
 
schafergroup2006 said:
One thing I noticed is that temperature is a factor in your space that you turn in. I am in Hawthorne and the weather has been great. Literally just up the freeway from you. My garage stays cold though and since I usually turn and finish in the evening, I have found that I try to let my ca finishes cure for a good 24 hours before I go into the micro meshing and polishing stages. Also I have found that keeping the blanks clean with acetone between sandings and before ca application has an effect. also I learned a very quick lesson when I cracked a ca finish because I had not made sure the ends were hand milled flush with the tubes. I turn btc and have to make sure the ends are sanded carefully to flush with the tubes after i am done with the finish. pressure from the press/arbor could also be a factor.

just some thoughts.
Click to expand...

That was pretty much the case the night I finished this pen too. Cool temperatures in the shop. Thanks for these helpful hints on keeping the blank debris free during finishing. I may try the 24 hour thing as well to see if that makes a difference along with the sanding of the ends after I'm done finishing. I always worry about the pressure from assembly when I'm putting them together.

They seem so delicate to me at that one point.
 
Gary Max said:
If the wood was not dry-----it will crack and you can't stablize wet wood. I have a pile of Amboyna Burl that is three years old----every last blank is full of eggshell type cracks. Oz burls have a real bad rep for being very wet when shipped.
Click to expand...

This was the other thing I was wondering about too. I've turned several different types of wood now and this is the first type I've had this problem with. I was wondering if amboyna is known for this issue or if it was something I did during production.

It seems to me like the consensus here at least is possible wet wood moving after I applied the finish.

I will strip the pen down and let it sit for awhile before I finish it again and see what happens during round two.
I have at least 5 more pieces of it so I'm wondering how long before those pieces will be ready to turn.
 
Manny said:
The body is easy. Just unscrew the nib sections. Take out the ink insert and use a transfer punch to knock out the other end. Then turn it around and knock the other fitting out with a larger punch.

The cap is a bit harder see this post of a very good way to do this.
I found this method very useful
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55116

Here is another way. Never tried it.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52793&highlight=disassembly

If you don't have the transfer punches. Don't even try it. Harbor freight sells em for 10 bucks and they are often on sale.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3577
Manny
Click to expand...

Ya Manny I followed your advice long ago and bought this punch set from HF and I've used it much more than I wish I had so far. My only trouble with this is that on this kit there are couplers on both ends of the pen that are the same size so I have to use a smaller punch to remove the first one and I have to hold it at an angle so it will catch the edge of the part I'm trying to remove.

It makes for a very time consuming process since I can't use the force of the entire punch and only the edge of it. If I don't hold the punch at an angle then it just goes right out the other end of the pen.

I tried banging it down on the punch but using a hammer I was able to apply enough force to actually get the coupler to come off. I was just really worried about damaging the pen. In fact all that banging on the blank might have caused this cracking too down the road? Who knows. But during assembly I had to take it apart because I put the second coupler on backwards. So it could have even been that which caused my problems.
 
BigguyZ said:
The more I have this issue the more I want to use only stabilized woods. Period. I'm currently stabilizing all of my woods with Plexitone at home, and it that doesn't work I'll move to either having the woods stabilized professionally, or buying commercially stabilized blanks fromt he get-go. Though I do like cutting my own blanks, so I'd rather keep to the home brew method.

But I had the same issue on another Ambonya burl pen I did. I vote moisture. I thiknk the heat thing is BS, especially if it's days later.
Click to expand...

I turned my first stablized blank 2 weeks ago and I actually really liked the way it looked when it was finished but I agree with you about being able to use your own wood. This piece of amboyna had some natural lines in it that towards the end kept catching on my skew and chipping the wood so I had to do some of my final finishing with 150 grit sandpaper so I didn't risk any more chipping from the tool.

At one point I wondered if this piece of wood or this type of wood should have been stabilized or not. Or if I should have filled it in with thin CA before my final rounds of shaping to avoid hitting any natural lines in the wood.

All part of the learning process I suppose but thanks for sharing!!
 
candy1land said:
Ya Manny I followed your advice long ago and bought this punch set from HF and I've used it much more than I wish I had so far. My only trouble with this is that on this kit there are couplers on both ends of the pen that are the same size so I have to use a smaller punch to remove the first one and I have to hold it at an angle so it will catch the edge of the part I'm trying to remove.

It makes for a very time consuming process since I can't use the force of the entire punch and only the edge of it. If I don't hold the punch at an angle then it just goes right out the other end of the pen.

I tried banging it down on the punch but using a hammer I was able to apply enough force to actually get the coupler to come off. I was just really worried about damaging the pen. In fact all that banging on the blank might have caused this cracking too down the road? Who knows. But during assembly I had to take it apart because I put the second coupler on backwards. So it could have even been that which caused my problems.
Click to expand...

OK lets start over again. The same size fitting on both ends should not matter if you have the nib on one end OR the cap on the other end. The punch rest on one of these to force the fitting out. No need to hold at an angle.

I think there is a tutorial somewhere about this.

GL Manny
 
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