Finish problem

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Dueyvan

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IMG_9122.JPG


I thought my finish was flawless but it's almost like my CA retracted into this knot. Can I clean it out, add a tiny bit of CA and buff it later? Best way to do so without a buffing wheel on my lathe?


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Jon Nutting

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It looks like you hit the ca glue with a little too much accelerator which can cause it to turn white. Needs to be around 10 inches away and don't use too much. Not sure if you can clean that out completely without starting over but the more experienced guys might have some better answers
 

Dueyvan

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It looks like you hit the ca glue with a little too much accelerator which can cause it to turn white. Needs to be around 10 inches away and don't use too much. Not sure if you can clean that out completely without starting over but the more experienced guys might have some better answers

No accelerator used. This is just a bit of lint or dust in a little external imperfection


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peter1958

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That is exactly the same what happend to one of my pens.
I did add some ca, but the white wasn't gone. so sanding was the solution.
I handsanded the spot slowly. looking every 5 seconds what the result was.
The result was a clean dull dimple in the pen.
Looking around here if anyone had the same problem, nope, not really.
I filled the dimple with ca glue thick and used no accelerator. Repeted that a few times.
Then again sanding slowly, 1000 grid. It came out very well but it was very time consuming.
next time i try sanding 120 grid up to 1000 and finish again.
 

monophoto

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It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I suspect that the issue here is that there were some minute voids that filled with either dust from sanding the CA, or buffing compound. Either will show up as bits of while, and you hinted that you were able to 'clean it out' with a toothbrush.

The way to avoid this is to make sure that any voids are completely filled so that the surface is absolutely smooth. If the timber is clear (no knots), then the finish generally will fill any voids (including microscopic sanding scratches). But larger voids often appear around knots, and use a some kind of filler may be necessary. CA glue and dust from sanding the blank will do a nice job, but it may also be possible to use a commercial wood filler. Apply and allow to cure before doing the final sanding - the objective should be to have a truly smooth surface before applying any finish.
 

egnald

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Greetings - I used to suffer far too often with dreaded white spots. Most of mine looked like very tiny pinholes. Through a close examination at every step in my finishing regimen I finally tracked down the culprit. After Micromesh I used to use the Stick Fast plastic polishes, first Satin then Gloss. I came to find that occasionally there were indeed some kind of tiny pinholes in my finish. The liquid polishes went into the pinholes and turned white. No amount of buffing with cloth or anything seemed to get them out. So, I changed my regimen and instead of using the liquid polishes, I started buffing with a blue compound on a sewn cotton wheel followed by a loose flannel wheel for a final buff. Since then I have not had any white spots.

I don't know if what you have is related to the problem I had or not, but I thought I would share. I hope you are able to figure out the root cause so that you can avoid it in the future and that you can repair the blank. It is a very attractive wood - is it Yellowheart? Osage Orange? Mulberry?

Dave
 

Dueyvan

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Greetings - I used to suffer far too often with dreaded white spots. Most of mine looked like very tiny pinholes. Through a close examination at every step in my finishing regimen I finally tracked down the culprit. After Micromesh I used to use the Stick Fast plastic polishes, first Satin then Gloss. I came to find that occasionally there were indeed some kind of tiny pinholes in my finish. The liquid polishes went into the pinholes and turned white. No amount of buffing with cloth or anything seemed to get them out. So, I changed my regimen and instead of using the liquid polishes, I started buffing with a blue compound on a sewn cotton wheel followed by a loose flannel wheel for a final buff. Since then I have not had any white spots.

I don't know if what you have is related to the problem I had or not, but I thought I would share. I hope you are able to figure out the root cause so that you can avoid it in the future and that you can repair the blank. It is a very attractive wood - is it Yellowheart? Osage Orange? Mulberry?

Dave

That wood is lignum Vitae. Sometimes known as Palo santo. Originally it's kinda green and they say it should revert to a greenish grain as it rests after working
IMG_9085.JPG



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egnald

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That wood is lignum Vitae. Sometimes known as Palo santo. Originally it's kinda green and they say it should revert to a greenish grain as it rests after working
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I would have never guessed. The Lignum Vitae that I have turned before had a much tighter looking grain structure. Do you know if it was genuine Lignum Vitae or the Argentine Lignum Vitae? I know the Argentine is usually a little lighter (more yellow-ish). Here is a picture of the Lignum Vitae that I used in a pen and pencil set. It came from spare parts (propeller shaft bearings) from the MV Doulos Phos, the world's oldest ocean-faring passenger ship. Decommissioned and turned into a hotel in 2009 after 95 years of active service. - Dave

IMG_1502 Cropped.jpg
 

Dueyvan

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I would have never guessed. The Lignum Vitae that I have turned before had a much tighter looking grain structure. Do you know if it was genuine Lignum Vitae or the Argentine Lignum Vitae? I know the Argentine is usually a little lighter (more yellow-ish). Here is a picture of the Lignum Vitae that I used in a pen and pencil set. It came from spare parts (propeller shaft bearings) from the MV Doulos Phos, the world's oldest ocean-faring passenger ship. Decommissioned and turned into a hotel in 2009 after 95 years of active service. - Dave

View attachment 298078

That's really awesome! I was told this was the real deal from Jamaica. Was told supplies on this wood are limited to wind blown trees and right now there's some available because of a hurricane but sometimes it's years between shipments.


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leehljp

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Pens are not flat work or furniture. No need to use 120, 150 or anything less than 320. I can see scratches that were filled in some by CA.

The spots not filled in is because of using thin CA and applying it with Paper Towels. Thin is OK in many cases, but where grain and capillary indentations are at play, use medium or thick. If you are using paper towel, then you should apply more CA and in thicker layers. Remember, you paper towel is going to absorb at least 75% of your CA, so you are not getting nearly as much as you would think.

There are methods of applying CA so that 90% - 95% get on the pen.
 

Nathancarrier

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Pens are not flat work or furniture. No need to use 120, 150 or anything less than 320. I can see scratches that were filled in some by CA.

The spots not filled in is because of using thin CA and applying it with Paper Towels. Thin is OK in many cases, but where grain and capillary indentations are at play, use medium or thick. If you are using paper towel, then you should apply more CA and in thicker layers. Remember, you paper towel is going to absorb at least 75% of your CA, so you are not getting nearly as much as you would think.

There are methods of applying CA so that 90% - 95% get on the pen.
Like?
 

egnald

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Pens are not flat work or furniture. No need to use 120, 150 or anything less than 320. I can see scratches that were filled in some by CA.

The spots not filled in is because of using thin CA and applying it with Paper Towels. Thin is OK in many cases, but where grain and capillary indentations are at play, use medium or thick. If you are using paper towel, then you should apply more CA and in thicker layers. Remember, you paper towel is going to absorb at least 75% of your CA, so you are not getting nearly as much as you would think.

There are methods of applying CA so that 90% - 95% get on the pen.

I agree completely. I usually start with 400 grit unless the wood is far too proud of the bushings, then I might start with 320 grit. On my first grit I use a flat surfaced backer on my sandpaper (an acrylic blank) to help knock off any high spots without hitting the low spots too hard. I also always sand laterally after each grit to make sure all of the circular scratches are gone. I always sand with 400, 600, and 800 grits and depending on the wood, 1200 and occasionally even 2000 before applying a finish. The smoother the blank - the smoother the finish.

Some even reverse the lathe direction or flip the blanks between each grit to be more effective at sanding off any grains that were simply laid over from the previous sanding step. I have done this occasionally but it is not part of my usual regimen.

I do use paper towel as applicators in my regimen with lots of coats. As was stated above, I throw away more CA on my paper towel than I get on the blank. I apply 4 to 6 coats of thin followed by 12 to 14 coats of medium. For me this leaves the finish smooth enough that I can proceed right to Micromesh and buffing. I start with the thin because I think it penetrates more and almost acts like a primer to provide an improved adhesion layer for the medium coats. (No accelerator / activator on the thin coats and very sparingly on the medium ones).

I tried the more efficient use of CA methods on my way to my current regimen though. Some use the little plastic bags or other non-porous materials as applicators. The one that I used for quite some time was "art foam". It is essentially a thin, flexible, closed cell foam that doesn't absorb the CA. It did put on a much thicker coat per application, but I never could get the knack so that my coats were smooth enough to go directly to Micromesh when I was done. I always had to sand off some ridges in order to get the CA flat before going to Micromesh. Occasionally led to the dreaded "sand through" which is why I moved on. I'm sure if I would have stuck with it for a longer period I would have developed the necessary skill and dexterity to be successful with it.

Anyhow, I hope that gives you some additional insight and helps you develop your regimen.

Regards,
Dave
 

jttheclockman

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I would like to just highlight something Dave just said which I preach here all the time. That is when sanding and I see no reason you have to start with anything less than 400 grit but anyway whatever sandpaper you use do not sand with your fingers. You see tons of videos of people wrapping sandpaper around the blank and sanding that way. That is their method but to me the best way to avoid those dips and valley and keep from sanding in one area too much because the wood is softer in that area is to use a piece of wood behind the sandpaper. I have a block of wood that I use all the time and wrap the paper around it and then sand. Now when using MM there is no need because the grits are too fine to sand dips and valleys but they can leave scratches so that is another story for another day. good luck.
 

leehljp

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Some people buy thin dense foam sheets (about 1/8" thick or less and cut into 1" by 2" rectangles or so, and put a drop or two of CA and let the turning (at 600RPM or less) pull the CA onto the blank. The 1" wide applicator will smooth it on, and the majority gets onto the pen, not in the applicator. Another method works the same - use the pen parts bags. Put it on a finger and drizzle slowly onto the turning blank and smooth over with the nylon bag. There are other creative ways to do this. I took some tub butter tops and cut them up once into squares and used them. Makes for smooth unlumpy finishes and gives a good build up of CA. A key component is not to use a lot of pressure, just enough to move and smooth the CA consistently.

Many of the old timers (using calipers) would intentionally turn the blanks down to .005 or .007 smaller than the fittings, and then build up with CA until it was proud of the fittings by the same amount; and either sand (600+) or turn with a very fresh sharp tool to bring it to size. It is hard to build up that kind of CA thickness with paper towel.
 

ramaroodle

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Just looking at your first picture I see that your CA coating is not smooth and has undulations in it, meaning the surface is not smooth.
Capture.JPG


That leaves open the possibility that the CA application has voids where CA can pool. I'd first try getting a smooth surface coat, then sanding it smooth. I'd also make sure you fill on top of any knots with CA before final sanding. The knot doesn't absorb CA like the regular grain does.
 

leehljp

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Just looking at your first picture I see that your CA coating is not smooth and has undulations in it, meaning the surface is not smooth.
View attachment 302083

That leaves open the possibility that the CA application has voids where CA can pool. I'd first try getting a smooth surface coat, then sanding it smooth. I'd also make sure you fill on top of any knots with CA before final sanding. The knot doesn't absorb CA like the regular grain does.

You are right as to the smoothness in this photo.
And this leads to another aspect that is preventing such close scrutiny: CREE type LED 4ft bulbs. There are CREE type that have a a smooth covering that allows reflected light as above. Then there are those that cause a pika-pika type of light that causes reflections as seen in the current Front Page Pen. That is a great looking pen, but the light reflection is from an overhead 4ft light with clear lens over the 50 - 60 small square LED sections. A smooth cloudy colored covering make for a much better light for pen photos.
 
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