Ethanol is a cheap fuel source?

[Monty]

Are we, the consumer going to be the patsy again?
All this talk about adding ethanol to the gasoline to bring the price down. If it's so much cheaper, then why was I charged $12.00+ for a gallon of DNA last night at the Borg?

 

[Geo in Winnipeg]

Maybe for the same reason "bottled water" is priced like it's liquid gold. Or if your gov't is anything like ours maybe it's because they have a bee up their backside about taxing "alcohol", even though it's not the drinkable kind.[]

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't believe for a second that the Gub'mnt is to blame. When the cost of production and delivery make ethanol profitable to sell, then we will see it more readily available. From articles I have read, the cost of production almost equals it's retail value as a fuel. And, for technical reasons, it cannot be transported by pipeline but must be trucked, again raising the cost. This country runs of financial opportunism. Until the producers can make money with it, they won't make it.

 

[kf4knf]

Here we go - I have a tall soap box on this issue. Please feel free to jump in an share your thoughts but keep it nice...

Darn! I love corn! Corn chips, corn bread, corn on the cob, corn nuts - Guess those will become to expensive now too! WTH! Ethanol is a good solution to the oil situation. Yea it might be harder to transport, require modifications in gas station pumps and fuel injection system of the future - but who cares! Its better than oil! They make it out to be an expensive alternative, one that shouldnt be attempted but I think otherwise. Yes it will be expensive at first but as demand grows, businesses will respond pulling the price back into check.

For those of you that love the oil companys and defend them, read the wikipedia article on oil supply. You might be amazed to learn oil production was at its peak in 1980s. Or that middle east nations are allowed to overstate the amount of oil they claim to be recoverable. Or how about the fact that one of the largest oil reserves sits us to our north over the Canadian border. Now tell me why we have an oil problem again? IMHO its a flaw in foreign policly with a pile of greed thrown in. Everyone is out to make a dime - they are just doing it off me and you. Its making us dependant of our neighbors and extremely weak in the enegry realm.

E85 (ethanol) is a good solution. Hydrogen is my next best pick...

 

[rfreeouf]

How about this option

Water for Fuel

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by rfreeouf
<br />How about this option

Water for Fuel

That idea has been debunked. Water to hydrogen does work. But the expense of converting exceeds purported savings. Below is a reply from a friend of mine in Englan who is an inventor/designer/engineer and all around logical high-level techno-geek.

&lt;&lt;It's genuine but very misleading )

It's been known for years that if you inject a little water into a car engine,
running on gasoline, you get more power because the water becomes steam which helps
push the piston down.

Oxy-hydrogen torches have been around for ages and fuelled by electrolysing water but
you need lots of electricity. OTOH the "free energy" folk who don't reckon the laws
of physics don't apply to them, reckon you can get more energy out than you put in if
you electrolyse water with high frequency electricity. Strangely none of them have
claimed their million dollars from James Randi so I don't think it will stand close
examination )

Can he really get patents on ideas that have been around for decades?&gt;&gt;

 

[smoky10]

Heres an article you may want to read on Brazils use of ethanol
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

I hope the link works.

 

[DCBluesman]

Thanks for sharing that link, Tom. What's not included in the cost calculations is the savings to our environment. Huge amounts of money are poured into research hoping to cure the ills of our current fossil fuel follies. Those savings directly impact both taxes and costs of good produced and transported in this country. If Brazil can do it in 25 years, surely the rest of the world can improve on not only the process but the timeline. Fossil Fuel Independence Day might even become a new national holiday. [8D]

 

[rtparso]

All of the alternative fuels need electricity to make them. What we need in more nuke power plants. But we need to run the operation correctly. Reprocess fuel, single design for muti-reactors, etc. I have been looking at the water fuel conversion. While it isn't free it has some interesting applications. I used to work in a jewelry manufacture and we used to use electrolytic separator and burn the output in our torches. The hydrogen doesn't taint the silver. The upside is it is more efficient to turn fossil fuels to electricity then to burn it in a car but you still loss lots of energy every time you convert.

 

[JimGo]

Ron,
I had the same conversation with several co-workers today. Another idea for the energy source is geothermal. One of the scandanavian countries, I think it's Norway, is doing this as they test hydrogen fueled cars made by BMW.

 

[smoky10]

Some cities in Iceland are heated geothermally, by hot springs that are capped and the steam is piped into the cities. They have used this for over 40 years. They had it when I was stationed there in the 60s.