Engraving question

[gcap74]

Hi all,

I am making some pens using the Desire kit from Mckenzie Penworks using deck wood from the USS Alabama. These are for my best friend and her children. Her grandfather was a Radioman on the USS Alabama and she has a tattoo of his initials in Morse code.

I want to replicate those initials in Morse code on the pen... But it's something I've never done before. My laser engraver doesn't do well with non-flat surfaces but I assume that the thin profile of the Morse code engraving will render that moot (I plan on testing with some similarly sized dowels...)

My question is about when to do the engraving... Specifically should I do it before or after finishing. I plan on using Pens Plus for the finish. I don't want to get into a debate about finishes. I have had good luck with Pens Plus, I am TERRIBLE at applying CA finish and I like the softer finish that the Pens Plus gives in the long term, especially when the wood itself is meaningful.

I am trying to decide if I should engrave before or after finishing... In a perfect world I would like to do the engraving after the finish because it would give a tactile feeling to the Morse code, but I am worried that using the laser engraver after applying the Pens Plus will do damage to the finish...

Any thoughts?

 

[bsshog40]

I've always had good luck with engraving before finish. Depending on the depth of the engraving, it will still be felt. Never attempted after finish, so I can't help you there.

 

[showcaser]

I'd do a test run on regular teak both finished and beforehand not using anything historical. I only laser engrave after it's finished.
Best of luck

 

[ZanderPommo]

BLUF/TLDR: I'd 100% do it before finishing.

I've never used pens plus, but if it's a hard surface finish that will "fill" the engraving I'd treat it like a CA finished pen, though the point is irrelevant because even if you did it with a friction finish of some sort I'd still make the following recommendation:

Do it before finishing. The engraving will almost certainly leave some small amount of residue due to the laser passing through the smoke created by the burning wood. Even with good ventilation I get a little scorching, but it can be removed in about 5 seconds with a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper.

I've used teak decking from the USS New Jersey a few times and it being a darker wood it created some scorching. I use CA and always engrave after sanding the wood to 600 on the lathe. I then hit the scorching with 600 grit and fill the engraving with CA using a syringe, then use a small knife to cut the excess to reduce required sanding on the lathe, then re-Mount it, sand to 600 until I can no longer feel the engraving, then apply CA. Cutting through a hard finish like CA will inevitably lead to chipping around the engraving. If pens plus is similar to a laquer, I'd assume there would be a similarly problematic result.

 

[randyrls]

Cover the engraved area with blue painters tape to keep "flash over" to a minimum.

 

[gcap74]

Thanks for

BLUF/TLDR: I'd 100% do it before finishing.

I've never used pens plus, but if it's a hard surface finish that will "fill" the engraving I'd treat it like a CA finished pen, though the point is irrelevant because even if you did it with a friction finish of some sort I'd still make the following recommendation:

Do it before finishing. The engraving will almost certainly leave some small amount of residue due to the laser passing through the smoke created by the burning wood. Even with good ventilation I get a little scorching, but it can be removed in about 5 seconds with a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper.

I've used teak decking from the USS New Jersey a few times and it being a darker wood it created some scorching. I use CA and always engrave after sanding the wood to 600 on the lathe. I then hit the scorching with 600 grit and fill the engraving with CA using a syringe, then use a small knife to cut the excess to reduce required sanding on the lathe, then re-Mount it, sand to 600 until I can no longer feel the engraving, then apply CA. Cutting through a hard finish like CA will inevitably lead to chipping around the engraving. If pens plus is similar to a laquer, I'd assume there would be a similarly problematic result.

Pens Plus is a friction polish from Doctor's Woodworking. I think everyone is right that engraving before finish is the way to go, but I am now thinking that since Pens Plus requires a fully smooth surface I will need to fill the engraving first.... I am not sure how to do that and still have the Pens Plus adhere properly

 

[ZanderPommo]

Thanks for

Pens Plus is a friction polish from Doctor's Woodworking. I think everyone is right that engraving before finish is the way to go, but I am now thinking that since Pens Plus requires a fully smooth surface I will need to fill the engraving first.... I am not sure how to do that and still have the Pens Plus adhere properly

Hey, if Randy's solution above using painters tape does a good enough job keeping the engraving clean, you may be able to do it post-finishing. I'd test that out first because it would be the easiest way if it works sufficiently.

Cover the engraved area with blue painters tape to keep "flash over" to a minimum.

Amazing that I've never even thought to try this. Thanks Randy

 

[gcap74]

Hey, if Randy's solution above using painters tape does a good enough job keeping the engraving clean, you may be able to do it post-finishing. I'd test that out first because it would be the easiest way if it works sufficiently.

Amazing that I've never even thought to try this. Thanks Randy

That's actually a great idea. I have used tape before to engrave over lacquer so that may be the trick!

Of course now I am going down a rabbit hole of using Melamine lacquer as a finish... good thing I bought a bunch of teak blanks from Exoticblanks!

 

[Kenny Durrant]

Just to add another thing to think about. I've never used Pen Plus and not to get into the finish Delma I'll suggest this. I put a thin coat of finish on the pen then engrave. The thin coat helps seal the wood so the over burn doesn't smear into the pores. Then wipe off the over burn with water or DNA. The DNA might remove some finishes so you might just stick with water. Let dry then use thin CA to fill the engraving. Be sure to let the first fill to soak in so not to cause a glassy look. A tip I was given here on the IAP!!! Once filled sand the CA flush with the blank so you have a smooth surface. If you're not going with a CA finish be sure the surface is level so there won't be any ripples around the engraved areas. When finished sanding start back with your regular finish. Filling the engraving makes for a smooth finished pen. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[ZanderPommo]

Just to add another thing to think about. I've never used Pen Plus and not to get into the finish Delma I'll suggest this. I put a thin coat of finish on the pen then engrave. The thin coat helps seal the wood so the over burn doesn't smear into the pores. Then wipe off the over burn with water or DNA. The DNA might remove some finishes so you might just stick with water. Let dry then use thin CA to fill the engraving. Be sure to let the first fill to soak in so not to cause a glassy look. A tip I was given here on the IAP!!! Once filled sand the CA flush with the blank so you have a smooth surface. If you're not going with a CA finish be sure the surface is level so there won't be any ripples around the engraved areas. When finished sanding start back with your regular finish. Filling the engraving makes for a smooth finished pen. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Another great idea I gotta try

 

[jrista]

Just to add another thing to think about. I've never used Pen Plus and not to get into the finish Delma I'll suggest this. I put a thin coat of finish on the pen then engrave. The thin coat helps seal the wood so the over burn doesn't smear into the pores. Then wipe off the over burn with water or DNA. The DNA might remove some finishes so you might just stick with water. Let dry then use thin CA to fill the engraving. Be sure to let the first fill to soak in so not to cause a glassy look. A tip I was given here on the IAP!!! Once filled sand the CA flush with the blank so you have a smooth surface. If you're not going with a CA finish be sure the surface is level so there won't be any ripples around the engraved areas. When finished sanding start back with your regular finish. Filling the engraving makes for a smooth finished pen. Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Coating the wood before engraving helps with inlaying the engravings in more ways than one. Aside from helping prevent burnover, it can help when filling the inlay as well, especially if you want to fill it with something other than just a clear substance. If you want to fill it with a solid, or some other inlay material, finishing the wood first with at least a coat or two of something, can help prevent whatever your inlay material is from soaking into the grain. I've spent a lot of time this year trying to fill engravings in wood, and its not as easy an endeavor as it sounds (well, at least, if you are filling with non-clear inlay of some kind), and grain fill is a huge problem. With some kind of sealer in the wood, it helps immensely, and allows any spillover to be wiped off a lot easier as well.

Another tip, would be to turn down close but not exactly to your desired final diameter. Do your engraving, little deeper than normal, seal, fill your inlay, let the inlay cure, then turn to final dimensions. This can give you a cleaner final result.

 

[ZanderPommo]

Coating the wood before engraving helps with inlaying the engravings in more ways than one. Aside from helping prevent burnover, it can help when filling the inlay as well, especially if you want to fill it with something other than just a clear substance. If you want to fill it with a solid, or some other inlay material, finishing the wood first with at least a coat or two of something, can help prevent whatever your inlay material is from soaking into the grain. I've spent a lot of time this year trying to fill engravings in wood, and its not as easy an endeavor as it sounds (well, at least, if you are filling with non-clear inlay of some kind), and grain fill is a huge problem. With some kind of sealer in the wood, it helps immensely, and allows any spillover to be wiped off a lot easier as well.

Another tip, would be to turn down close but not exactly to your desired final diameter. Do your engraving, little deeper than normal, seal, fill your inlay, let the inlay cure, then turn to final dimensions. This can give you a cleaner final result.

Solid advice.

 

[keithbyrd]

On wood I don't normally fill the engraving. I finish the piece, cover the engraving area with blue painters tape, engrave. Remove tape and buff lightly.