Dust Mask ??

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jttheclockman

jttheclockman

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OK I need to get some honest opinions about serious dust safety protection. I have an older Trend faceshield/dust mask with the battery pack and such. It served me well over time but it has given up its life. So I want to buy one that will last me the rest of my turning years. Here is my thoughts. I could get something like the Trend which is basically a face shield as well as dust mask setup. (Airshield)Or I can get a face shield and wear a dust respirator under it. So basically 2 devices. The advantage there is I can use the respirator without the shield if just doing some finishing. This will be strictly for turning purposes. Want to turn some exotic woods as well as some phenolic resins that are extremely dusty. Both are no good to breathe. I will have dust collector going as well as shop vac for more direct catching of dust. My concerns is weight of the unit. Ease of use. If battery is involved , good battery life. Like to hear both options and hopefully from people who are currently using them. The Trend was OK but it was top heavy and the battery life went down hill quickly. But it was one of the original units so not sure if newer ones have been improved. Also what are the advantages of one over the other? Thanks.
 
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I use the 3M half mask respirator. It's comfortable and fits well with my glasses. I do find it to be a little bulky when also wearing my face shield
 
"The advantage there is I can use the respirator without the shield if just doing some finishing."
Two pieces have that convenience; But the one piece - all in one - has the convenience of simplicity and not having to hunt for the second part.

I used the old Triton for several years, and tried to resurrect it by adding a new fan and new rechargeable battery set, but got distracted and misplaced the parts. The Triton had a very good air flow and I liked that. When the Triton battery went out, I settled on the respirator and face shield and enjoyed that to the point that I personally did not think of the one piece so much.

IS the problem with your Trend the battery? Here is a link to Amazon for a replacement "rechargeable battery". Not sure if it fits yours.

 
leehljp said:
"The advantage there is I can use the respirator without the shield if just doing some finishing."
Two pieces have that convenience; But the one piece - all in one - has the convenience of simplicity and not having to hunt for the second part.

I used the old Triton for several years, and tried to resurrect it by adding a new fan and new rechargeable battery set, but got distracted and misplaced the parts. The Triton had a very good air flow and I liked that. When the Triton battery went out, I settled on the respirator and face shield and enjoyed that to the point that I personally did not think of the one piece so much.

IS the problem with your Trend the battery? Here is a link to Amazon for a replacement "rechargeable battery". Not sure if it fits yours.

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No Hank I believe it is the fan itself. It makes noise and then shuts down. But the batteries are not that good any more either. That is my dilemma, do I spend more money on it or just go a different route. The one thing I was always afraid of or we just do not take in consideration is yes we protect our lungs and that is great but with dust, your eyes are just as important. getting the same dust in your eyes can also cause allergies. Now all these years and all the time I spent in the shop I have not picked up any allergies to woods or finishes. This past year I had some health problems that required surgery and I needed to get all kinds of tests and one was my lungs scanned and there was no signs of scarring or blockage so that was a good thing also. I do have to wear glasses when doing close up work so that is also a factor.
 
I have a respirator but can't use it as it makes my glasses go out of focus, giving me a bad headache. I use the N95 masks. Either that or learn to hold my breath for several minutes.
 
I searched around for a while and have found one of the 3M respirators that is comfortable on my face and I'm not blowing junk out of my nose like I did when using a paper N95. I could never get a tight fit around my mouth and nose with one. I wear a face shield over it and find it all pretty comfortable which is decidedly NOT what my impression was when I first bought the respirator. I can wear my glasses or contacts/safety glasses with the setup just fine. If I see steam from my breath on my glasses it makes me realize I need to adjust the respirator a little. I think that's gotta be main reason I'm keeping stuff out of my nose.

kind of the old "the best filter is the one you'll always wear" approach
 
Woodchipper said:
I have a respirator but can't use it as it makes my glasses go out of focus, giving me a bad headache. I use the N95 masks. Either that or learn to hold my breath for several minutes.
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I don't know if this will help, but I have these Zeiss Anti Fog eye glass cleaning wipes; I think as a result result from folks with glasses wearing masks during COVID. They clean just as well as the non-anti fog ones. They are not expensive. Zeiss Anti Fog Wipes
 
jttheclockman said:
OK I need to get some honest opinions about serious dust safety protection. I have an older Trend faceshield/dust mask with the battery pack and such. It served me well over time but it has given up its life. So I want to buy one that will last me the rest of my turning years. Here is my thoughts. I could get something like the Trend which is basically a face shield as well as dust mask setup. (Airshield)Or I can get a face shield and wear a dust respirator under it. So basically 2 devices. The advantage there is I can use the respirator without the shield if just doing some finishing. This will be strictly for turning purposes. Want to turn some exotic woods as well as some phenolic resins that are extremely dusty. Both are no good to breathe. I will have dust collector going as well as shop vac for more direct catching of dust. My concerns is weight of the unit. Ease of use. If battery is involved , good battery life. Like to hear both options and hopefully from people who are currently using them. The Trend was OK but it was top heavy and the battery life went down hill quickly. But it was one of the original units so not sure if newer ones have been improved. Also what are the advantages of one over the other? Thanks.
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I had some severe health issues in 2020, not because of COVID, but because of ineffective masking. At the time, we were in the heart of the pandemic, and it was impossible to get good quality masking. I started turning in Feb 2020. I tried to find good masking, but, the best I could find at the time, due to all respirators being reserved for frontline health and emergency workers, was a basic ported mask, which was effectively useless.

I developed some problems due to wood dust. It wasn't until later in the year that I discovered I'd developed a truly severe allergy to CA glue dust and fumes. It was around September 2020 that I was finally able to get my hands on a 3m half face mask, and the Pink/Mustard colored filters (which include organic/acid filtration through a chemical reaction in the filter.)

That was the first real mask I used, and while it was a dramatic improvement over the original mask I had, there were (still are, I still have and use it, but only for smaller jobs) some issues with it still. It is still a ported mask, which means that there are several membranes in place that open or close based on whether you are breathing in or out. Two membranes exist within the mask and open when you breathe in, allowing air in through the two filters on either side of the mask, and one exists outside the mask (but within a hard plastic cover with a bottom opening) that opens when you breathe out. These two sets of membranes are opposed to each other. so when you breathe out, the inlet membranes close over those ports, so you aren't exhausting air through the filter, and the outlet port closes when you breathe in so you aren't, well, breathing in everything you are trying to avoid.

These masks work well, and will protect you from most dust and toxins. However the membrane action is not instantaneous. So there is a momentary lag time, where your inward breath is "closING" the exhaust port. That moment may allow small amounts of dust or fumes in. Over time, these membranes, particularly around the edges, will pick up stuff. So you need to make sure you are cleaning the mask fairly frequently. If you keep it all clean, then it works well, and will prevent the vast majority of dust and toxins from reaching you. In my case, its not quite good enough for doing stuff that releases fumes (especially if they are released right in front of you, since the exhaust port is basically right there), and you can still get exposure. For dust, its fine for the most part. For mild fumes, I've taken to attaching a damp cloth around the exhaust port opening to help filter any backflow that might seep back into the mask from there. That said, I think you can do better.

After getting ahold of this 3M face mask...and it working, but sometimes still having problems, and after a visit to an allergist and ENT who said I had some very severe issues and allergies (including to things I'd never been exposed to or exposed to much before), I ended up buying a full sized PAPR, or Positive Air Pressure Respirator. This is similar to the Trend faceshield/dust mask, but its more robust and capable...and, the price reflects its design. I picked up the Sundstrom SR580/SR500 setup, for $1300. I don't know if it still costs the same, this was in the middle of the pandemic, so it might have been more expensive then.

The Sundstrom is a powered system. The face mask setup is a full face shield setup, with a nice wide view, and it seals around your head. This is the SR580. The SR500 is a belt with the battery pack, power system, and space for two large air filters. It comes with standard dust filters, as well as a set of prefilters (which can be relaced independently, and themselves can account for the majority of dust filtration). You can also use advanced filters (yellow band) similar to the 3M Pink/Mustard filters, that use a chemical reaction to capture and neutralize organic/acid fumes. A hose connects the belt to the mask. When powered, there is a flow of air from the bottom front of the face mask, which pressurizes the area within the face mask. Air exits around the seal (its a loose sealing elastic band that holds the seal part to your face) and out the back of the mask at the top/back of your head. This positive air pressure prevents anything from getting inside the mask at all.

This is the mask that I use for anything larger or more serious than a small part. I still use the 3M half-face mask for small things that only produce a little dust, mainly because the Sundstrom is large and a little heavy (although if you've been using the Trend, then you probably wouldn't notice!), even though IMO its vastly superior filtration and the positive pressure ensures no dust or fumes can reach your nose or lungs. The 3M is fine for very small turnings that don't produce much dust. The 3M is only moderately reliable for protecting you from things like CA fumes, though, so if you have issues with that, then a PAPR like the Sundstrom is a far superior solution. I've had good luck with battery life with the Sundstrom. I can turn for hours without the battery running out.

FWIW, before the Sundstrom, and for years even before I started wood turning, I was never able to breathe well through my nose. Since starting wood turning, my nose had become perpetually stuffed, and I had to breathe entirely through my mouth. That is quite problematic on many fronts for many reasons, not the least of which is you just get less air (even when you breathe through your mouth, you also get air through your nose, and when you can't...well, you get less air, and have lower oxygenation, which cause a slough of other problems). Since getting the Sundstrom and using it for most of my work, my nasal passages cleared up so I could breathe properly again...and the difference was huge. I also eventually started allergy shots, which are effectively a cure for common/known allergies (grass, weeds, trees, mold and regular dust, which includes to a degree some wood dust as well). I've been on the allergy shots for about three years now, and I am able to breathe through my nose like a normal person, and this is the first time in my life that I've ever felt I could breathe normally. I used to have an extremely nasal voice, that too has changed. SO....why am I talking about this? Well, its become just that much more important to me now, now that I can actually really BREATHE, not always feel like I have to suck in air just to stay alive, that I PROTECT this new state of being.

I was working on buying a proper dust filter earlier in the year, a project which I had to pause. As part of that, I was researching how best to set up a proper dust collection system, and found Bill Pentz work, designer of the Pentz cyclone, and learned just how insideous wood dust is. His work kind of put the fear of God in me about wood dust, so I've done everything I can since to make sure I'm exposed as little as possible. Aside from the fact that I seem to be prone to allergies, wood dust is a particularly insideous thing in that, the finest, and also most problematic, wood dust is the PM2.5 and smaller stuff...which is invisible to the naked eye, even if the room air is saturated with it. This is the stuff that gets deep into your lungs, where it can cause very serious problems, and where....as far as I gather, your body can't do anything about it. It gets in, and it gets stuck, and it doesn't go anywhere, hence the reason wood dust exposure is a lifetime-exposure issue. For anyone who believes the science behind wood dust and truly wants to protect themselves, a Positive Air Pressure Respirator is the way to go to protect your lungs for a lifetime. IMHHO.
 
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Sam Angelo released a new video today in which he mentions that he uses a BaseCamp mask while sanding. That's a washable fabric mask that accepts replaceable multi-layer filters. It is equipped with exhalation valves that allow you to breath without fogging glasses. Some other well known turners also use BaseCamp masks - I think I got the ideal from Rick Morris of RickTurns.

My approach is to use a BaseCamp mask when sanding, but not while turning. My thinking is that sanding is the process that generates the fine dust that is most harmful; turning tends to generate chips, shavings and coarse dust that is less harmful. In addition, I have a fan mounted above my lathe that is directed downward to blow dust down and away from me as I am working at the lathe. I think that is an approach that Captain Eddy mentioned in one of his videos many years ago.

There are other brands of a similar design; I bought one that I thought looked good, and used it on an emergency cross-country plane trip at the beginning of the Covid lockdown. I quickly recognized two problems - first, while it would probably protect me from breathing in dust and other contaminants, the exhalation valve means that my breath is allowed pass into the surrounding area without filtration, so it is not an effective solution for medical needs. The other problem was that when I arrived on the West Coast after wearing it for a full day, I realized that the fabric used to make the clone is extremely hard and abrasive - it took almost a week for the skin on my nose to recover from being 'sanded'!
 
I turned a pen this morning and used a Basecamp mask with cheap visor.

I have 2 Wen air filtration systems a couple of feet above me in the rafters going along with the shop vac/Onieda cyclone separator sucking up debris at the lathe.

Glasses constantly fogged up. Do you all have that problem with the Trend system?
 
derekdd said:
I turned a pen this morning and used a Basecamp mask with cheap visor.

I have 2 Wen air filtration systems a couple of feet above me in the rafters going along with the shop vac/Onieda cyclone separator sucking up debris at the lathe.

Glasses constantly fogged up. Do you all have that problem with the Trend system?
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FWIW, this is the exact kind of mask I started with in 2020. The ports are not very good, and allow a non-trivial amount of backflow when you breathe in. They also do not protect against any kind of fumes. If you read my post, I had a lot of issues with such a mask in 2020.
 
jrista said:
FWIW, this is the exact kind of mask I started with in 2020. The ports are not very good, and allow a non-trivial amount of backflow when you breathe in. They also do not protect against any kind of fumes. If you read my post, I had a lot of issues with such a mask in 2020.
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I didn't read all of that but I do recall you've mentioned a few times having developed allergies to dust and CA fumes.

I'm seeing the Sundstrom system. Pretty pricey, but as you say, we need to protect our lungs.
 
Last night I ordered from Amazon one of the 3M 6500 series masks with the pink filters. If anything it will help for now because all I am using is 3m N95 masks. I have used those for years when I was scrolling and woodworking and they must have helped along side my air cleaner system and dust collector use. When I start turning those materials I mentioned I will see actually how bad the situation will be and go from there. I want to be the one to say enough is enough in the shop and not my health results of laziness.
 
the newer trend masks are better balanced John. But as has been said above several times, a positive pressure filter fac3 shield keeps your glasses clear and head safe.

Happy Christmas fir tomorrow, see what Santa brings you 😉
 
TonyL said:
I don't know if this will help, but I have these Zeiss Anti Fog eye glass cleaning wipes; I think as a result result from folks with glasses wearing masks during COVID. They clean just as well as the non-anti fog ones. They are not expensive. Zeiss Anti Fog Wipes
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My problem isn't dust but my glasses don't fit/focus properly so bifocals don't do their job.
 
derekdd said:
I didn't read all of that but I do recall you've mentioned a few times having developed allergies to dust and CA fumes.

I'm seeing the Sundstrom system. Pretty pricey, but as you say, we need to protect our lungs.
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I have the 3M Versaflo system - similar specs to the Sundstrom. Some of the things I appreciate having used it for about 5 years:

- both faceshield and helmet have the best protection/highest safety rating that I found while I was in buying mode
- fold down hearing protectors attatched to the helmet, so I can run the big dust extractor (the other hearing protectors I own won't fit over the Versaflo)
- battery, filter and fan unit are on a hefty belt and slide around to the back (so the intake is not in the cloud of dust you're trying to avoid)

Sundstrom might have these same features; and you might not be bothered about the things which are important to me.

Good luck - I believe you are on the right path.
 
duncsuss said:
I have the 3M Versaflo system - similar specs to the Sundstrom. Some of the things I appreciate having used it for about 5 years:

- both faceshield and helmet have the best protection/highest safety rating that I found while I was in buying mode
- fold down hearing protectors attatched to the helmet, so I can run the big dust extractor (the other hearing protectors I own won't fit over the Versaflo)
- battery, filter and fan unit are on a hefty belt and slide around to the back (so the intake is not in the cloud of dust you're trying to avoid)

Sundstrom might have these same features; and you might not be bothered about the things which are important to me.

Good luck - I believe you are on the right path.
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The hearing protection sounds nice. The Sundstrom I have does not have that.
 
jttheclockman said:
Last night I ordered from Amazon one of the 3M 6500 series masks with the pink filters. If anything it will help for now because all I am using is 3m N95 masks. I have used those for years when I was scrolling and woodworking and they must have helped along side my air cleaner system and dust collector use. When I start turning those materials I mentioned I will see actually how bad the situation will be and go from there. I want to be the one to say enough is enough in the shop and not my health results of laziness.
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These are good masks (respirators actually) and are used industrially for hazardous environments much more dangerous than something as simple (but as insidious) as wood dust. The different canisters are made for different type of chemical vapor exposure.

I use one of these with the pink/yellow VOC canisters. I especially love that it filters out all of the nasties from various finishes, including CA.
I also run an air filter with a 1 micron bag filter as well as my dust extraction system that has a Wynn Environmental MERV 15 canister filter. I have been very happy with this setup.

Please note that these are actually half face respirators and MUST be fit properly to function properly. They are available in several sizes so make sure that you get the right size for you and make sure that it fits correctly.

Please note.... in the fine print item on these type of respirators you will note that you can have NO FACIAL HAIR, you must be clean shaven to get the rated performance/protection from them.

In short, these respirators are professional/industrial Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and you cannot just buy one, slap it on and go. To be effective in protecting you, they must be fitted properly and tested so that it completely blocks the odor of some test substance, they used to use banana oil (30 years ago) when testing the fit.

3M Fit Test

Training Video
 
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I've read all the research... I mean all the actual studies themselves. Unless you have some lung issue/breathing issue or allergies. OR work constantly in a full dust environment all day for a full-time job. Dust is not going to be an enemy. Many of these companies manipulated the data to sell a product. But... if you have those issues, get something that will help.
 
PreacherJon said:
I've read all the research... I mean all the actual studies themselves. Unless you have some lung issue/breathing issue or allergies. OR work constantly in a full dust environment all day for a full-time job. Dust is not going to be an enemy. Many of these companies manipulated the data to sell a product. But... if you have those issues, get something that will help.
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The problem is when you find out you have developed those allergies or breathing issues it becomes too late and then you can not enjoy the hobbies.
 
jttheclockman said:
The problem is when you find out you have developed those allergies or breathing issues it becomes too late and then you can not enjoy the hobbies.
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Oh, I agree. My concern is only for those that don't have allergies and such... not to spend the money on it. I don't work in a full-time shop... but I'd say I'm close to part-time. Doing it for 55 years. No problems ever. The reason I have a dust collector is... well, dust builds up. LOL
 
PreacherJon said:
Oh, I agree. My concern is only for those that don't have allergies and such... not to spend the money on it. I don't work in a full-time shop... but I'd say I'm close to part-time. Doing it for 55 years. No problems ever. The reason I have a dust collector is... well, dust builds up. LOL
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I do not have allergies but I am looking to get another dust mask because I believe the reason I do not have allergies is because I always used dust protection. I worked for 43 years in construction and worked around some nasty dust. Concrete dust is one of the worse you can breathe in along with fiberglass insulation. I have a dust collector along with a air cleaner but I will be working around alot of phenolic resins that are very dusty in the near future along with some exotic woods so I am trying to be prepared and I believe it is the right thing to do.
 
PreacherJon said:
Oh, I agree. My concern is only for those that don't have allergies and such... not to spend the money on it. I don't work in a full-time shop... but I'd say I'm close to part-time. Doing it for 55 years. No problems ever. The reason I have a dust collector is... well, dust builds up. LOL
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The problem with that concern - is that no one knows before hand if they are going to have a severe allergic reaction. I used CA for two+ years before it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I am generally not one alergic to wood dust of any kind except poison oak/ivy :oops: (Yep, I tried turning a dead vine). After the fact, I am one that thinks learning to use a respirator at the beginning is an essential. Kind of like not using a seat belt until in a severe accident. Except for the poison oak dust, I am (so far) not allergic to other exotic wood dusts that so many are. And after reading how many are allergic to exotic dusts along with CA, it is, in my opinion, that they should begin the practice of breathing health (respirator or good face mask) at the beginning. No one knows IF they are going to become suddenly allergic to a specific dust and go into anaphylactic shock. I had two warnings with CA fumes, but I did not connect it with CA because both times it was a couple of hours after finishing that it hit me. The third time, I connected the dots, but it was so severe that I needed to go to a doctor with severe flu like symptoms. Had I known before hand, I most certainly would have had a good respirator on.
 
leehljp said:
The problem with that concern - is that no one knows before hand if they are going to have a severe allergic reaction. I used CA for two+ years before it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I am generally not one alergic to wood dust of any kind except poison oak/ivy :oops: (Yep, I tried turning a dead vine). After the fact, I am one that thinks learning to use a respirator at the beginning is an essential. Kind of like not using a seat belt until in a severe accident. Except for the poison oak dust, I am (so far) not allergic to other exotic wood dusts that so many are. And after reading how many are allergic to exotic dusts along with CA, it is, in my opinion, that they should begin the practice of breathing health (respirator or good face mask) at the beginning. No one knows IF they are going to become suddenly allergic to a specific dust and go into anaphylactic shock. I had two warnings with CA fumes, but I did not connect it with CA because both times it was a couple of hours after finishing that it hit me. The third time, I connected the dots, but it was so severe that I needed to go to a doctor with severe flu like symptoms. Had I known before hand, I most certainly would have had a good respirator on.
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There is more to it than pre-existing allergies. A ton of types of wood produce dust that is an "irritant", which is basically saying that over time, with repeated exposure, that exposure itself can PRODUCE an allergy. So even if you start out allergy-free, exposure to irritants can eventually result in developing an allergic reaction.

Further, it is often about more than just the wood dust itself. Wood absorbs a lot over the lifetime of a tree, including fungi, which themselves produce mycotoxins. Some wood is just downright toxic itself, and there are a couple types that can actually cause heart attacks.

This is nothing to say of the structural nature of fine wood dust, and how when it gets into your lungs, it gets stuck (the nature of fine dust particles is that they have a lot of hook-like structures in them), and as the wood fibers are tough materials, they don't just break down and get cleared out. Wood dust that goes in, basically doesn't come out again. Even without an allergy, over the long term this can result in decreased lung capacity and other issues, a propensity for pneumonia, etc.

It is a good idea to be protected from the get-go, and keep yourself as well-protected as you can. Its not a one-time immediate exposure issue. Its a lifetime exposure issue. You might be fine for years, until suddenly you aren't, and you have anaphylactic reactions, or COPD, or something like that develop "out of the blue" (not really...you've been sucking in wood dust for years!)
 
PreacherJon said:
How did they ever survive before the 1990s... the modern world will never know.
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People had plenty of issues with their health a hundred and more years ago. Look at the average life expectancy GROWTH since the 1800s! Life expectancy "at birth" from the 1700s through early 1900s was a MERE 40-45 years. If I was born in the late 1800s I'd be dead now.

There were a lot of causes, not just wood dust, like black soot and other crap, but wood dust, what with wood working being one of the longest standing jobs for men, certainly played a role in a lot of those young 40 year old deaths!

The notion that somehow we just invented all these ailments in recent times is honestly ridiculous. It is through the advent of ways to protect ourselves from all the CRAP in the world, in the atmosphere, that aims to kill us, is one of the reasons why our life expectancy at birth is now around 80-85 years, double what it was a hundred years ago. Heck, in the 1950s it was still around 60-65 years.

If you want to live a long, healthy, pain-free life as a woodworker...protect yourself. Protect your lungs. Protect your nasal passages. 🤷‍♂️ This is one of those things, where I honestly cannot fathom the resistance or jokes like above. In the end, the only victim of resistance to as simple a thing as wearing a proper resiprator...is the person doing the resisting. :confused:
 
jttheclockman said:
OK I need to get some honest opinions about serious dust safety protection. I have an older Trend faceshield/dust mask with the battery pack and such. It served me well over time but it has given up its life. So I want to buy one that will last me the rest of my turning years. Here is my thoughts. I could get something like the Trend which is basically a face shield as well as dust mask setup. (Airshield)Or I can get a face shield and wear a dust respirator under it. So basically 2 devices. The advantage there is I can use the respirator without the shield if just doing some finishing. This will be strictly for turning purposes. Want to turn some exotic woods as well as some phenolic resins that are extremely dusty. Both are no good to breathe. I will have dust collector going as well as shop vac for more direct catching of dust. My concerns is weight of the unit. Ease of use. If battery is involved , good battery life. Like to hear both options and hopefully from people who are currently using them. The Trend was OK but it was top heavy and the battery life went down hill quickly. But it was one of the original units so not sure if newer ones have been improved. Also what are the advantages of one over the other? Thanks.
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Peke Power cap!!!!!
 
jrista said:
People had plenty of issues with their health a hundred and more years ago. Look at the average life expectancy GROWTH since the 1800s! Life expectancy "at birth" from the 1700s through early 1900s was a MERE 40-45 years. If I was born in the late 1800s I'd be dead now.

There were a lot of causes, not just wood dust, like black soot and other crap, but wood dust, what with wood working being one of the longest standing jobs for men, certainly played a role in a lot of those young 40 year old deaths!

The notion that somehow we just invented all these ailments in recent times is honestly ridiculous. It is through the advent of ways to protect ourselves from all the CRAP in the world, in the atmosphere, that aims to kill us, is one of the reasons why our life expectancy at birth is now around 80-85 years, double what it was a hundred years ago. Heck, in the 1950s it was still around 60-65 years.

If you want to live a long, healthy, pain-free life as a woodworker...protect yourself. Protect your lungs. Protect your nasal passages. 🤷‍♂️ This is one of those things, where I honestly cannot fathom the resistance or jokes like above. In the end, the only victim of resistance to as simple a thing as wearing a proper resiprator...is the person doing the resisting. :confused:
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The stats are so low for illness (I've read and studied the data) that's why it is a joke. The industry has gotten so many people hung up on the myths they created ... all to make $$$. But as it has been said, After you fool the people with a lie, they refuse to believe the truth that they were fooled.
 
PreacherJon said:
The stats are so low for illness (I've read and studied the data) that's why it is a joke. The industry has gotten so many people hung up on the myths they created ... all to make $$$. But as it has been said, After you fool the people with a lie, they refuse to believe the truth that they were fooled.
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It is evident that you have a strong opinion toward anti mask which is your right. But when I started this post my opinion is I believe safety can not be taken lightly regardless of what stats say. Each person is an adult and capable of making their own decisions. My intention was to find some examples of a replacement mask to the one I use now. Nothing about political views of right or wrong. Because I could take your last statement and place it right on top of the head of the Republican candidate running for President. Did not want this to go down this path but what an opening. I made a decision with the air respiratory for now. It should be coming today and I will try it out and see how I like it. I may revisit this if I need to. Thanks to all that replied. I am sure this thread will be shut down now. And as far as others I strongly recommend wear some sort of lung protection and do as you see fit. Happy woodworking.
 
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jttheclockman said:
It is evident that you have a strong opinion toward anti mask which is your right. But when I started this post my opinion is I believe safety can not be taken lightly regardless of what stats say. Each person is an adult and capable of making their own decisions. My intention was to find some examples of a replacement mask to the one I use now. Nothing about political views of right or wrong. Because I could take your last statement and place it right on top of the head of the Republican candidate running for President. Did not want this to go down this path but what an opening. I made a decision with the air respiratory for now. It should be coming today and I will try it out and see how I like it. I may revisit this if I need to. Thanks to all that replied. I am sure this thread will be shut down now. And as far as others I strongly recommend wear some sort of lung protection and do as you see fit. Happy woodworking.
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As often is... the messenger of the truth is blamed.
 
PreacherJon said:
The stats are so low for illness (I've read and studied the data) that's why it is a joke. The industry has gotten so many people hung up on the myths they created ... all to make $$$. But as it has been said, After you fool the people with a lie, they refuse to believe the truth that they were fooled.
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You can count me as a case of illness. I had SEVERE problems in 2020. It was all related to the crap I was breathing in from woodworking.

I'm not speaking out my rear...I had SEVERE health issues in 2020 that are entirely gone now, as I now put high importance on protecting myself.

Further, how many times have you read on these forums about people talking about the reactions they have, breathing, lung issues, allergies/feels like a flu, when they turn, or use CA glue? I've read that too many times to count on these forums, and I only joined in the summer of 2021. I no longer have enough fingers to count the number of people on these forums who have complained about breathing issues after using CA. (And it still blows my mind that people say that, and STILL haven't started using a proper respirator!! They still suffer, when they don't have to!)

So I'm sorry, but even though it may be anecdotal, there is surely evidence of the health issues that wood dust and the various fumes we may breath DOES CAUSE. I watch a lot of YouTube videos from other turners. You can tell the ones who turn with PPE, vs. those who do not...with a fairly simple audible check: Do they breath heavy and do they have a nasal voice? Some do, and you often see them without any PPE. Others sound just fine, and are always wearing PPE.

Again, anecdotal, this hasn't gone through the rigors of a strict scientific process, but anecdotal evidence is still evidence. This is stuff you can double check on if you wish, PLENTY of posts on these forums alone, let alone others, or videos. I'm a data point myself, and I will tell you this...there were a couple points where I honestly wondered whether life was worth living back in 2020, things got so bad. For a while, I simply COULDN'T GET PPE, I wasn't allowed to buy it even though it was out there, as 100% of it from all the sellers I could find with any stock, had reserved it for what they were calling "front line fighters" in the COVID-19 pandemic. I stopped turning for a while it was so bad, even, although my brother who lives with me still did, and I STILL had issues...from the dust he was producing. Even after finally acquiring PPE, I would do non-woodworking work out in my garage without a respirator (sometimes days after the last time anyone turned), when the air appeared entirely clear, and I STILL ended up with breathing and lung issues, which completely baffled me.

I now basically don't do anything out there without at least the half-face respirator. I also no longer have breathing, nasal or other flu-like health issues anymore. After reading Pentz' work, I understand why I would end up with breathing issues after spending time in the garage without PPE...because of that damnable fine <PM2.5 dust!

So sorry, but, "low stats" doesn't do it for me, and I'm not just some sap believing lies. I have personally experienced the hell that not protecting yourself can do. In my case, it was a combination of wood dust and CA. CA fumes were what made me wonder if life was still worth living. Wood dust, however, while not taking me quite to that level, still causes problems if I don't protect myself, and when I do get exposed (Even these days), wood dust is a slow moving effect...starts off with a sniffle, then my entire head gets stuffed to the brim, and it takes days for my body's reaction to even a small amount of wood dust to release and then wear off. A single incidence of exposure to wood dust will usually leave me with a stuffed head and some wheezing for around a week, before I'm able to breathe through my nose again, and longer to feel like I now normally do (which, I think, is like any "normal" person, as I honestly don't think I ever breathed as well as I do now, for most of my life.) I have spent enough time trying to figure out why I have these reactions to no longer have any doubt that its wood dust. Every time, its wood dust. I HATE feeling that way, its miserable, utterly miserable, so I do everything in my power to make sure I NEVER feel that way again...I protect myself, my nose, my lungs.

You can think its all a lie, sure is everyone's own prerogative. I've lived through a hellish misery like I cannot even describe (when CA is involved, literally having to suck in every breath with a lot of force, just to keep breathing, even while on an Albuterol inhaler, even after going to emergency rooms and being given a nebulizer). I don't believe this stuff is all just a bunch of lies to sell products and make money. I've lived and suffered the consequences of not protecting myself, which is the only reason I make an issue out of it here and now.

I'm NOT saying everyone needs to spend thousands on a PAPR. All I am saying is, spend the $18 on a 3M Half Face respirator (not just some cheap ported mask!! I did that and SUFFERED!), and then whatever is necessary for a set of Pink/Mustard 3M Organic Vapor filters. Its not that much money, and you might be surprised at how it affects you. I had no idea how GOOD breathing could be, until I was properly protected, and started faithfully protecting myself all the time. I never could breathe before...it was always one thing or another, although nothing quite as bad as the wood dust and CA. I at least wear a 3M Half Fac mask (sometimes just with the purple band particulate filters) ANY time I do anything that might produce some kind of particulate I could breathe in. I am able to breath well all the time now. It's incredible how it feels, being able to breath well, all the time.

Anyway, its anecdotal, but...it IS a factual data point. Take it as you will, I guess (to anyone reading this.)
 
jrista said:
You can count me as a case of illness. I had SEVERE problems in 2020. It was all related to the crap I was breathing in from woodworking.

I'm not speaking out my rear...I had SEVERE health issues in 2020 that are entirely gone now, as I now put high importance on protecting myself.

Further, how many times have you read on these forums about people talking about the reactions they have, breathing, lung issues, allergies/feels like a flu, when they turn, or use CA glue? I've read that too many times to count on these forums, and I only joined in the summer of 2021. I no longer have enough fingers to count the number of people on these forums who have complained about breathing issues after using CA. (And it still blows my mind that people say that, and STILL haven't started using a proper respirator!! They still suffer, when they don't have to!)

So I'm sorry, but even though it may be anecdotal, there is surely evidence of the health issues that wood dust and the various fumes we may breath DOES CAUSE. I watch a lot of YouTube videos from other turners. You can tell the ones who turn with PPE, vs. those who do not...with a fairly simple audible check: Do they breath heavy and do they have a nasal voice? Some do, and you often see them without any PPE. Others sound just fine, and are always wearing PPE.

Again, anecdotal, this hasn't gone through the rigors of a strict scientific process, but anecdotal evidence is still evidence. This is stuff you can double check on if you wish, PLENTY of posts on these forums alone, let alone others, or videos. I'm a data point myself, and I will tell you this...there were a couple points where I honestly wondered whether life was worth living back in 2020, things got so bad. For a while, I simply COULDN'T GET PPE, I wasn't allowed to buy it even though it was out there, as 100% of it from all the sellers I could find with any stock, had reserved it for what they were calling "front line fighters" in the COVID-19 pandemic. I stopped turning for a while it was so bad, even, although my brother who lives with me still did, and I STILL had issues...from the dust he was producing. Even after finally acquiring PPE, I would do non-woodworking work out in my garage without a respirator (sometimes days after the last time anyone turned), when the air appeared entirely clear, and I STILL ended up with breathing and lung issues, which completely baffled me.

I now basically don't do anything out there without at least the half-face respirator. I also no longer have breathing, nasal or other flu-like health issues anymore. After reading Pentz' work, I understand why I would end up with breathing issues after spending time in the garage without PPE...because of that damnable fine <PM2.5 dust!

So sorry, but, "low stats" doesn't do it for me, and I'm not just some sap believing lies. I have personally experienced the hell that not protecting yourself can do. In my case, it was a combination of wood dust and CA. CA fumes were what made me wonder if life was still worth living. Wood dust, however, while not taking me quite to that level, still causes problems if I don't protect myself, and when I do get exposed (Even these days), wood dust is a slow moving effect...starts off with a sniffle, then my entire head gets stuffed to the brim, and it takes days for my body's reaction to even a small amount of wood dust to release and then wear off. A single incidence of exposure to wood dust will usually leave me with a stuffed head and some wheezing for around a week, before I'm able to breathe through my nose again, and longer to feel like I now normally do (which, I think, is like any "normal" person, as I honestly don't think I ever breathed as well as I do now, for most of my life.) I have spent enough time trying to figure out why I have these reactions to no longer have any doubt that its wood dust. Every time, its wood dust. I HATE feeling that way, its miserable, utterly miserable, so I do everything in my power to make sure I NEVER feel that way again...I protect myself, my nose, my lungs.

You can think its all a lie, sure is everyone's own prerogative. I've lived through a hellish misery like I cannot even describe (when CA is involved, literally having to suck in every breath with a lot of force, just to keep breathing, even while on an Albuterol inhaler, even after going to emergency rooms and being given a nebulizer). I don't believe this stuff is all just a bunch of lies to sell products and make money. I've lived and suffered the consequences of not protecting myself, which is the only reason I make an issue out of it here and now.

I'm NOT saying everyone needs to spend thousands on a PAPR. All I am saying is, spend the $18 on a 3M Half Face respirator (not just some cheap ported mask!! I did that and SUFFERED!), and then whatever is necessary for a set of Pink/Mustard 3M Organic Vapor filters. Its not that much money, and you might be surprised at how it affects you. I had no idea how GOOD breathing could be, until I was properly protected, and started faithfully protecting myself all the time. I never could breathe before...it was always one thing or another, although nothing quite as bad as the wood dust and CA. I at least wear a 3M Half Fac mask (sometimes just with the purple band particulate filters) ANY time I do anything that might produce some kind of particulate I could breathe in. I am able to breath well all the time now. It's incredible how it feels, being able to breath well, all the time.

Anyway, its anecdotal, but...it IS a factual data point. Take it as you will, I guess (to anyone reading this.)
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I have a Bachelors in Ministry/Bible
I have a MDIV in Theology
I have a second M.RES (Masters in Research) with an emphasis on statistical analysis.

I hate seeing people being taken advantage of (to waste their money) because corporations mislead the people using faux statistical analysis. All I'm doing is showing others the odds are very low that you would need one. I hate seeing people press others to get one just because they personally need to have the device.
 
I believe you 110% Jon!

Before I got back into woodworking the only respiratory/allergy issues I suffered was the annual sage brush pollen.

When I got back into woodworking I didn't notice anything right away, but over time began having some minor issues. Then one night I had issues with labored breathing. I had done CA finish, polishing and Renaissance Wax with no protection. An inhaler (Albuterol) helped, but time is what it really took (days).

Since then I have realized that I absolutely am impacted by CA fumes and the fumes from the Microcrystalline waxes like Renaissance Wax.

I am no longer willing to do anything with CA finishing and the subsequent polishing and waxing without my 3M half face respirator with the pink/yellow N100/VOC canisters. The only thing I do in my shop without it is wet sanding, and then only if I haven't been generating dust before. I simply isn't worth the short term misery or the long term impact.

As noted in a previous post on mine in this thread, I run an air cleaner with a 1 micron bag filter and my dust collector with a MERV 15 canister on it at all times.

Before I retired, I was in the building environments business and spent 35 years in the construction of new and renovation of existing buildings and can guarantee you that air quality is no hoax.

I have worked around labs, hospitals, clean rooms and Bio Safety Labs up to and including BLS3, BSL3+, BSL3AG, and BSL4 (only a few in the world).

PPE is no joke. It saves lives. PERIOD. Certain things were (and still are) zero tolerance for us, that means you get caught working without the proper PPE, you are terminated immediately. It doesn't matter if you didn't get hurt, you are out.

Anyone in my shop wears all of the proper PPE or they don't get to work in my shop. When I teach people to do things in the shop, I spend a significant time on shop, tool, and material safety.

You want to gamble on your safety and heath, that is your business, and outside of my own shop, I can't stop you, but natural selection will eventually resolve the issue.
 
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PreacherJon said:
I have a Bachelors in Ministry/Bible
I have a MDIV in Theology
I have a second M.RES (Masters in Research) with an emphasis on statistical analysis.

I hate seeing people being taken advantage of (to waste their money) because corporations mislead the people using faux statistical analysis. All I'm doing is showing others the odds are very low that you would need one. I hate seeing people press others to get one just because they personally need to have the device.
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With all due respect, a 3M 6500 half face respirator and a pair of P100/Filter60923 VOC canisters is $50 on amazon right now.
We are talking about less than most of us spend on a handful of kits/blanks.
 
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PreacherJon said:
I have a Bachelors in Ministry/Bible
I have a MDIV in Theology
I have a second M.RES (Masters in Research) with an emphasis on statistical analysis.

I hate seeing people being taken advantage of (to waste their money) because corporations mislead the people using faux statistical analysis. All I'm doing is showing others the odds are very low that you would need one. I hate seeing people press others to get one just because they personally need to have the device.
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So instead, someone who has a Bachelors in Ministry/Bible and MDIV in Theology, resorts to calling people saps and suckers?

A 3M half face respirator and filters are about $40-50... I'm not pressing anyone to spend a lot of money here. I think you have overestimated how much people selling PPE are trying to take advantage of idiot saps, and underestimated the amount of science that backs up the need for SOME KIND of PPE to protect your health.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue having a conversation with someone who thinks anyone who buys a respirator is an idiot sap and a sucker. 🤷‍♂️
 
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