Double dye stabalization.

[Edward Cypher]

I got my own cactus juice during the BASH:biggrin: and have stabalized box elder burl in one color and also some crosscut black palm in color at a buddies house last year. I have all the equipment I think? Vacuum chamber, vacuum pump, cactus juice, alumilite dyes, manifold and separator. But how do you do a second color? Can it be done or is this something only the guys with the big rigs can do, the ones that do it under thousands of pounds of pressure. If you dye with one color would it not prevent another color from going into it and if it did not would it not be a combination of colors and contaminate the second color of Cactus juice. I have not seen anything on this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[robutacion]

I got my own cactus juice during the BASH:biggrin: and have stabalized box elder burl in one color and also some crosscut black palm in color at a buddies house last year. I have all the equipment I think? Vacuum chamber, vacuum pump, cactus juice, alumilite dyes, manifold and separator. But how do you do a second color? Can it be done or is this something only the guys with the big rigs can do, the ones that do it under thousands of pounds of pressure. If you dye with one color would it not prevent another color from going into it and if it did not would it not be a combination of colors and contaminate the second color of Cactus juice. I have not seen anything on this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

G'day,

I have done a little bit of work on that issue on this thread, have a look...!

I think that, there is another thread I made somewhere or maybe something that I posted on someone else's thread about this issue, have a read and let me know if you found the answer or not...!

Cheers
George

 

[Edward Cypher]

Not answered but I like the outcome.

I read all three pages and liked what I saw but there was no description of how. Did you dye then put in oven then dye again or did you dye one color and then the other color?? If you did the dye and then another color did it not contaminate the second color of cactus juice???? The outcome is gorgeous and I think it would work real well with Box Elder Burl as it is quite soft and porus. So I guess I did not get an answer although I like the results. Let me know if you dyed and cooked and dyed again or if you dyed and dyed and then cooked. Have loved all your blanks but not quite ready to attempt them yet. Maybe for the next Bash!!!

Have a wonderful day. Thanks for answering any and all help is appreciated.

I got my own cactus juice during the BASH:biggrin: and have stabalized box elder burl in one color and also some crosscut black palm in color at a buddies house last year. I have all the equipment I think? Vacuum chamber, vacuum pump, cactus juice, alumilite dyes, manifold and separator. But how do you do a second color? Can it be done or is this something only the guys with the big rigs can do, the ones that do it under thousands of pounds of pressure. If you dye with one color would it not prevent another color from going into it and if it did not would it not be a combination of colors and contaminate the second color of Cactus juice. I have not seen anything on this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

G'day,

I have done a little bit of work on that issue on this thread, have a look...!

I think that, there is another thread I made somewhere or maybe something that I posted on someone else's thread about this issue, have a read and let me know if you found the answer or not...!

Cheers
George

 

[SteveG]

I asked Curtis about this very issue, using cactus juice. His answer was to do two complete cycles, first with one color (using Alumilite dye), then run the second complete cycle using your second color. I asked about the first cycle maybe blocking penetration by the second color, and he explained the need to understand just how powerful the high vacuum is when doing this, and, Oh, by the way, he has done it and it works. (Can't argue with that!)

 

[Edward Cypher]

Thanks Steve. I still wonder about contamination of the second color but I guess if you cook it, the color is locked in the first resin and should not contaminate the second. Thanks again. Can't wait to try but we are exspecting a storm tomorrow, snow, sleet, ice and 30 degrees while today was 71. So it will be awhile.

 

[robutacion]

I read all three pages and liked what I saw but there was no description of how. Did you dye then put in oven then dye again or did you dye one color and then the other color?? If you did the dye and then another color did it not contaminate the second color of cactus juice???? The outcome is gorgeous and I think it would work real well with Box Elder Burl as it is quite soft and porus. So I guess I did not get an answer although I like the results. Let me know if you dyed and cooked and dyed again or if you dyed and dyed and then cooked. Have loved all your blanks but not quite ready to attempt them yet. Maybe for the next Bash!!!

Have a wonderful day. Thanks for answering any and all help is appreciated.

Well, as I said, there is a thread somewhere where all the processes were explained, I believe I thread many people saw but, I can'y find it, bugger...!

Anyway, I have discussed a couple different ways to achieve double or even triple colours (triple is a lot harder to do than double). I like to soak the blanks overnight or more, depending of the wood, with the cactus juice and the dye of the lightest colour of the 2, if the wood is soft you don't need to pull any vacuum, even if only for a few minutes (for harder woods).

The first natural soaking will penetrate the wood cells differently tan under full vacuum so, after I had them well soaked I then cooked them to set the Juice inside them. I then like to sand then down if there is too much dry/set juice outside, removing that excess dry juice will make easy for the second colour to penetrate evenly.

I put the blanks back in the vacuum chamber and cover then generously with the second juice colour (the darker of the 2), pull full vacuum until no bubbles appear. I like to allow that second colour to stay in the juice for another couple of hours (lid off).

After that is only a matter of draining well the blanks, wrap them in foil and cook again, 90° Celsius for 90 minutes, is my goal...!

The results will vary from wood to wood so, is never a matter of saying one size fits all...!

Good luck..!

I hope this further complement my other thread...!

Cheers
George

 

[Edward Cypher]

Thanks George that is exactly what I was looking for. You are a wealth of knowledge and your blanks are awesome. One of these days when I get better I will be ordering some from you. Just hate to ruin a beautiful piece of wood. Love the look of your seedpod blanks. You have such a variety of cool woods in Australia.

Thanks again for responding and as soon as the ankle fusion is done and I am healed up I am going to give the double dye a shot and if I feel real gutsy maybe a triple. Have a wonderful day downunder.

 

[mhbeauford]

A technique I have used for somewhat porous woods is to dribble colored Cactus Juice, some times more than one color or soak in a single color, don't use vacuum, then bake. When cool then using clear or a different color use vacuum then bake again. The more porous areas will show more of the first colors.

I'v done some BLM burl using the multicolor technique and they look like colored marble. Here is a picture of some. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/got-pump-did-stabilize-105940/


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/got-pump-did-stabilize-105940/

 

[Edward Cypher]

Thanks

Thanks mhbeauford. Those are some nice blanks on those sierras. I will give it a try. So many possibilities so little time. .

People on this site are so helpful and quick to respond. Love it.

A technique I have used for somewhat porous woods is to dribble colored Cactus Juice, some times more than one color or soak in a single color, don't use vacuum, then bake. When cool then using clear or a different color use vacuum then bake again. The more porous areas will show more of the first colors.

I'v done some BLM burl using the multicolor technique and they look like colored marble. Here is a picture of some.


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/got-pump-did-stabilize-105940/

 

[MesquiteMan]

As has already been mentioned...my recommendation is to just soak the blanks in your first color, no vacuum. Then cure the blanks in the oven. After curing, let them cool down and scrape off any bleed out. Then run the blanks through a complete vacuum process with the second color and cure as normal.

The first color will penetrate the more porous areas of the wood with a higher concentration. Then when you cure this step, that color becomes set and impervious. The second color with vacuum will pull into the areas that did not achieve saturation during the soak.

The key is curing between colors. If you do not cure between colors, then when you go to pull vacuum on the second color, you will pull most of that color out and it will mix with the second color and you will most of the time end up with a single color blank the color of which is the combination of the two different colors.

 

[Edward Cypher]

Thanks Curtis

Thanks Curtis. I've talked to you before but it has been a year, you were headed out on vacation. Can't wait to give it a try. Thanks for chimming in, I'm sure it will be a fun learning experience. The cactus juice worked wonders on crosscut black palm :biggrin::biggrin: now I just have to find a pen kit that will complement the palm. Looks like a black birdseye maple when it is crosscut.

Thanks again for all the information.

As has already been mentioned...my recommendation is to just soak the blanks in your first color, no vacuum. Then cure the blanks in the oven. After curing, let them cool down and scrape off any bleed out. Then run the blanks through a complete vacuum process with the second color and cure as normal.

The first color will penetrate the more porous areas of the wood with a higher concentration. Then when you cure this step, that color becomes set and impervious. The second color with vacuum will pull into the areas that did not achieve saturation during the soak.

The key is curing between colors. If you do not cure between colors, then when you go to pull vacuum on the second color, you will pull most of that color out and it will mix with the second color and you will most of the time end up with a single color blank the color of which is the combination of the two different colors.