Do I suck at pen turning?

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Amihai

Amihai

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Joined
Oct 8, 2021
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135
Location
Israel
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
 

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@Amihai
Hmmm . . . you show a picture. . . It's presumably a picture of a pen that you recently turned.

I don't see any fault with that pen. . .

Is there a fault ? . . You do not refer to that picture in your post .

Were you meaning to show, and explain what you are showing . . . in the text of your post ? . . . using the picture as an example of what you are talking about ?
 
I used to work with two guys who also turned pens. They'd ask why my pens were better than theirs.

Well, they'd go home a make a pen in 30 minutes. Instant gratification!

I'd spend two hours to make the same pen. Take it slow and careful while enjoying the journey.

I've been making pens for 15+ years and still learning.

As Mal said, your pen looks good!
 
magpens said:
@Amihai
Hmmm . . . you show a picture. . . It's presumably a picture of a pen that you recently turned.

I don't see any fault with that pen. . .

Is there a fault ? . . You do not refer to that picture in your post .

Were you meaning to show, and explain what you are showing . . . in the text of your post ? . . . using the picture as an example of what you are talking about ?
Click to expand...
Well, it's not really visible from the picture, but I forgot to sand down the CA remains after finishing... So it didn't align very well during assembly.
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Like any endeavor, "mastery" could take a lifetime,and like any endeavor it can be taken to any degree of complexity or simplicity you desire.
If you were both an experienced woodturner and woodworker you could achieve a good level of competence after a very small number of pens.
With no experience in woodworking, instruction from an experienced person would speed up your understanding,and joining a forum such ad this where there is a wealth of knowledge and kind encouragement.
Knowing what can go wrong helps in preventing someting going wrong.Having a clear idea of the sequence to achieving the end result is also required.
What I can see is grain break out at the base of your cap,mainly to the right of the clip,cause unknown,but there are short grains with tearout visible in that area,the grain in the wood is also showing this would be an area to be wary of.This could be turning technique or blank trimming process. There's also "bleed" visible on all blank ends which is most likely from sanding in micro metallic particles from your bushings.
So,no you don't suck,and we all learn at our rate.
 
Everything we do in life is a learning experience ever since the first days of our lives. We all learn at different paces. Weather you have past experience or not can be a benefit but that should not deter you one way or other to learn this hobby. Remember it is a relaxing hobby and you get out of it what you put into it. Every pen you turn means more experience and knowledge. Learn from this and store up this knowledge. You made a great step to progressing in the hobby by just finding this site. We all went through the growing pains as you seem to be at this time. There is no exact time when things click in. Heck I started over 15 years ago and still learning. I also still make the same mistakes I made 15 years ago but now recognize where I went wrong quicker these days. Just move on and chalk it up to another lesson. What is great about what we do, it all is correctable. Weather this means taking our pen apart and redoing something to just readjusting things. People with alot more disabilities are making pens and enjoying this hobby so do not let any handicap let you down. Talk to us and pick our brains. We are here to help and encourage others which also helps each and everyone of us as we do it. Good luck and happy turning.
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?
Click to expand...
Turning since 2013. Still make mistakes or make pens I'm not 100% happy with.
My experience... Dental technician. Worked with processing/polishing acrylic but has nothing to do with turning a blank, assembling a pen.
Be proud of your work. Your willingness to learn by doing, asking. Most importantly be confident and believe in yourself. If it's a hobby there's no rush to hit home runs. If it's business...practice practice practice until you have a marketable item.

If you forgot to sand down the CA... consider that and every flaw a learning experience. This is a skilled interest. Cannot master it over night...if we could we would be on TV or in the record books. Relax. Have fun. It'll come to you. If you get frustrated when things go wrong...welcome the club. Most of us are lifetime members there.
 
The same principle holds true in most things, that practice makes perfect. I think it took me almost a year to get to where I was comfortable turning pens. I made every mistake possible, and some that were impossible. That actually helped me. I learned how to fix things, understanding why things happen, and what to watch for. It's all part of the process. Just stick with it, it will all click and you will look back and be amazed at how much you improve.
 
My experience: It took me a year to consistently be happy with my finished pens.

At 6 months, I was where you are... a bit frustrated with my products. It seemed like some small oversight or misstep would result in a pen I wasn't happy with-- A crack. A wonky glue joint. I lump/divot in the finish. Sand through. Out of round. Too much finish. Poor fit. End out of square. I'd encounter a problem, correct, and a new problem was right behind it. But the very next weekend, I'd be back down in the shop trying again.

I'd say you're progressing at a solid rate. Several people didn't notice your mistake, which means that it's small (I see it there at the end below the clip). This would frustrate me too. ESPECIALLY on such an expensive component set! You may want to check out Atrax or Caballero kits from Exotic Blanks (don't know about shipping to Israel) as these are $10-15 and still pretty nice kits.
 
I believe it was Salvador Dali who said: Never try to achieve perfection as you will never achieve it.
The pen looks very good. Each pen will be better than that last one. I thought of writing down the steps in turning a pen so I don't leave out a step in turning or finishing.
Mazel tov!
 
@Amihai

Amihai said:
Well, it's not really visible from the picture, but I forgot to sand down the CA remains after finishing... So it didn't align very well during assembly.
Click to expand...

Well, that does NOT mean you suck at pen turning . . . . EVERYBODY IS TELLING YOU THE SAME THING !
You simply FORGOT to do something. .

You have made good progress to get where you are ! !

Keep at it ! ! ! ! :D . :D . :D
 
Last edited:
You don't suck. You are just human. ;)

I am unsatisfied with the vast majority of my pens. I always find little things that bug me...slight out of round or non-concentricity issues, so the seams between the kit parts and the blanks never quite line up perfectly. I REALLY want them to line up perfectly. Some of that is equipment...and, some of it is technique.

I made a real nice, rather expensive Ultra Cigar a little while back. Came out perfectly at first. Loved it. The seams were excellent. Thought it was one of my best pens. Three days after assembly, the bottom blank cracked. Big cracks. Separated enough to see down to the brass tube. Not sure why, but I suspect it must have something to do with the nature of buffalo horn (the material used) and the compression fit of the pen parts. The kit is just too nice to waste, so I'm going to try and figure out a way to salvage the kit, replace the tube and re-turn another segment of buffalo horn, and pay much closer attention to the details, file things down in size, thin out the tube, and use loctite instead of a compression fit to try and avoid cracking again.

These kinds of things are learning experiences. It doesn't mean you "suck"...just means you are human, and need to try, try, try again. ;)
 
Those are great questions, but difficult to answer because each person is different.

Some penturner personalities are "artists" while others are "engineers". Some penturners are impatient, while others are methodical. Some penturners are graceful, while others are clumsy. The list of traits is endless. I think of myself as a "methodical clumsy engineer", I suppose.

My first five pens were failures. Once I got past that hurdle, the pens I made continued to improve over time. I learned many lessons. Most of those lessons were the "what not to do again" type, rather than "what works better". I am not afraid to experiment, and that helps, too. (If the pen is functional, but not gift quality, then I donate the pen to the local public library. The library always need pens, and they don't care about looks as long as they write.)

What helped me improve the most was keeping notes. I have a spreadsheet, and make an entry for every pen I start - failure, success, or whatever. I have a Notes field where I can put comments about what failed or what worked or what I tried or whatever. Look for the "Pen Making Tracking Database Example spreadsheet in this thread:
https://www.penturners.org/threads/documents-for-tracking-pen-making-for-gifts-etc.159678/

By keeping notes, it helps me remember what works and what doesn't.
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The pen looks pretty good except the ends. It is difficult to do good work unless you have good tools. How are you squaring the ends before turning? Do you have a way to sand the ends square after finishing? There is usually some CA slop that needs to be addressed. Attention to detail and taking your time on assembly are key. Several times I have had to disassemble because I wasn't paying attention and didn't notice something or wasn't happy with some other aspect. Get some wearable magnifying glasses. It will help you see mistakes. I wear them when I am doing my final turning to get the ends to match perfectly with what my calipers are showing for the mating part. I don't make pens without using my calipers. It also looks like you are slightly under turned on the ends. Calipers will fix that. Bushings just get you close. Don't worry about hitting the bushings. All of mine have been shaved a little. :rolleyes:

I have been turning for 10 years. First pen was done with a teacher and came out very good. My wife still uses it and I could not improve it today. The next dozen pens were done on a friend's lathe and I was pleased with all of them and still am. My finishing and finishing materials has improved over the years, went from CA to GluBoost, but the turning was fine. I did have about 50 years of woodworking experience prior to that. When I started, I read about 4 or 5 years worth of prior posts on IAP and learned every trick and suggestion I could find. There are a lot of REALLY experienced guys on here and every question has been asked and answered dozens of times. I probably made 5-6 pens before I started selling them and only have my first 3 left and they are not for sale. I was into segmenting early on because of what I saw on here and that prompted me to careful in my turning and get good fast.

10 years later I still make mistakes, but I have gotten really good at fixing them! I still have to punch out the hardware and correct something on occasion. The pen I just finished had a slight blowout on drilling. I thought I had it blocked solidly but something went wrong. I fixed it and saved the blank, but it took some time to make it disappear.

I would say for 6 months on borrowed equipment you are doing pretty good. That pen is close to 100%. Most people would not see any flaws. If you see them and know what you did wrong, you are well on your way. If you aren't turning 1 or 2 pens a week it is hard to maintain the consistency to make it all the way without some mistake. If you are having fun and learning on here, you are doing the right things. Keep turning!
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
Click to expand...
In terms of using wood,understanding grain direction and how it behaves when being cut helps a lot.Short,angled or end grain at the end of a blank are going to be
tricky.
Very sharp tools and sheer cutting are also going to help you.
 
Stuart Robertson said:
Like any endeavor, "mastery" could take a lifetime,and like any endeavor it can be taken to any degree of complexity or simplicity you desire.
If you were both an experienced woodturner and woodworker you could achieve a good level of competence after a very small number of pens.
With no experience in woodworking, instruction from an experienced person would speed up your understanding,and joining a forum such ad this where there is a wealth of knowledge and kind encouragement.
Knowing what can go wrong helps in preventing someting going wrong.Having a clear idea of the sequence to achieving the end result is also required.
What I can see is grain break out at the base of your cap,mainly to the right of the clip,cause unknown,but there are short grains with tearout visible in that area,the grain in the wood is also showing this would be an area to be wary of.This could be turning technique or blank trimming process. There's also "bleed" visible on all blank ends which is most likely from sanding in micro metallic particles from your bushings.
So,no you don't suck,and we all learn at our rate.
Click to expand...
Great point! Light colored wood, sandpaper and metal bushings do not produce happy results!
 
The beauty of this hobby, as Penicillin noted above, is that even if you completely mess up, you still have a functional pen in the end.

What I've noticed (and this applies to any craft really) is that the better you get, the more detail you see, and thus the smaller the flaws. You eventually chase flaws so small that even others in the craft may not notice them unless they are pointed out (and some not even then).

I've only been doing this for a few months, though I'm not new to shop work and building things. But even my first pen had some flaws that I didn't like, but nobody that I showed the pen to noticed any of them. Not to say that you shouldn't have a higher standard than your customers, but just keep things in perspective. I suspect that most people here will say they have never produced a 'perfect' pen; there is always something that is just not 100% as intended. That is the nature of crafts. This is about self improvement; with each try, there will be successes, and flaws (I don't want to call them failures). You should be satisfied with the successes, and work on the flaws. Acknowledge the positives (a very important part of this), and then see what you need to do to improve on the flaws. And every time you do, that is one more thing for the success column.

This forum is a major step in learning to improve your technique, setup, equipment, and materials. There is a wealth of information here, and a growing roster of people that want nothing more than to help you get better at this. The support here is really tremendous, and a valuable resource. So stick with it, don't beat yourself up too much, and enjoy the ride!

One thing that might help is to buy a dozen or so inexpensive kits and some inexpensive blanks, and work on those to develop your skills. Far less pressure to 'get it right or else', and even a major catastrophic failure results in only tossing about $4 in the bin. Get the assortment of Funline Slimline pen kits from PSI, an inexpensive 10 pack of blanks, and an extra package of tubes and go to town. (the extra tubes allow you to toss a blank and not ruin a kit). Try different things, experiment, and develop your technique knowing that the mistakes are not a big deal.

Hope this helps,

Jeff
 
Being your own worst critic will always push you to do better, even when others don't see the flaws you do. I often find something I'd like to change or do better in my work whether it be in the cast blank or finished pen. The nice thing about this hobby is we all have a different perception of what we want to see in a finished pen. They all differ with shape, material, finish and more. With that…. I think It's all up to you to decide if you Suck or not…. If your happy with your results or if you want to change it up or try something different. Some of the ugliest pens I've ever made, I had people like and want them. The big thing is keep it fun for you. I've been a woodworker for 35 years but only turning since around 2008. I like your pen!
 
Many of the masters from this site have already chimed in with great comments. I discovered this wonderful hobby / habit last April and have turned about 100 pens - many of them are exquisite.

I have learned many things in that time, including there is not one step in the pen making process you cannot screw up!
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think you are being hard on yourself unnecessarily. If the photo you posted is an example of your work, I think you did a great job. Turning, like any other skill is a constant learning experience. I've been doing it over 30 years and I'm still learning. Best advice I can give is to take it slow. It's a relaxing activity, not a rush to the finish.
You learn more as you progress.
 
I am not one to give instruction but I can make a suggestion. Write down the mistakes you see. Next time you turn don't remove blank from lathe till you check it over and correct any error you see. Eventually it will become a habit to look for mistakes (?). Good luck and never give up. Satisfaction comes faster to some than others but it will come.
 
Wow! There are some awesome replies above. I really like how my wife has responded to me when I have been to critical of my work. She simply put I as "your too goofy". I have only been turning pens since spring, just about 20 or so pens. And yes, it is my enjoyable time. The folks that I have met at the Coastal Bend Wood Turners down in in south Texas have been great mentors. I highly recommend finding out if there is a wood turning group in your area. It is a lot of fun and some talented folks. Enjoy the ride and driving for improvement shows great signs of a good craftsman. .....just saying
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
Click to expand...
From what I can tell you may be turning your pens into an oval shape. Caused mostly by a bent mandrel rod. It's hard to correct for this. I've tried straightening the rods by marking them and then hitting them with a hammer but in my opinion that doesn't work well. Turning one blank at a time with a PsI pass through tail stock helps with this quite a bit but I've had the most success finishing between centers. Everything can be corrected, it just takes some practice and maybe Trying some new techniques
 
Amihai; As you develop your own process, you will get more consistent, and better results. I have a "best practices" workflow that allows me to make sure the result is good. If you are dissatisfied with the result, you can always dissemble the pen and fix what is wrong.

The most interesting thing about this craft is challenging myself to do better each time.
 
Amihai said:
Hello, I have several questions for you which I hope you can answer:
For how long have you been in this hobby/business of pen turning? Did you have any past experience in the woodworking field? How long did it take you to consistently produce quality pens?

It seems to me that every time I turn a pen, I do a small error at a certain stage, spoiling the entire work... Although I have a small shaking problem with my hands, and the conditions at the community workshop I work in are less than optimal, I still feel very frustrated when something goes wrong, and it usually goes that way. Of course, I still enjoy pen turning, that's why I'm here :)

I did hope however that you could give me a certain time frame of how long did it take you to sort of "master" this craft... I'm about six months in with no previous experience in woodworking. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The more you turn, the better you will get. Be patient. If I can teach blind people to make beautiful pens, you can make them too. Just keep practicing. I've been turning seven years and still make mistakes sometimes. Just keep turning.
 
At six months in, I think you're doing pretty well. I would say I was maybe 18 months in before I was consistently satisfied with my pens. And I think that's the important thing...satisfied. As others have mentioned, perfection is illusive. If that's your goal, I think you're in for a rough ride. For me, the journey was about chasing individual improvements. What is the biggest "flaw" in your current work? Work on that. Then identify the next biggest flaw, and work on that, and so on. Some other tips:
  • Take your time, and pay attention: I would say 80% or more of my mistakes come from either rushing or losing focus. Unfortunately, it takes only a fraction of a second sometimes to completely blow up a pen.
  • Buy a bunch of slimlines, and get a bunch of cheap/free blanks: I think we all have a tendency to want to do the "nice" pen kits and the exotic woods/segmented blanks, but going straight there is a waste. Cheap kits and cheap wood will get you the practice you need.
  • Don't be in a rush to spend money on equipment: My grandpa always said "it's a ****-poor craftsman that blames his tools." Not always the case, but a good rule of thumb. I have had a few instances where a change of equipment fixed an issue I was having (moving to TBC, for example, drastically reduced issues with non-concentricity). But in a lot of cases, it turned out to be an issue of technique. I even found a few cases where bad technique followed me through equipment changes, and I still got the bad results the new equipment was supposed to fix.
  • Get advice: This forum is an amazing resource. If you have one, a local(ish) woodturning shop is a great resource too. And if there's a local club, that can be a huge help also. I was having so many issues with my CA finish at one point. I'd read tons of advice here, and tried a lot of things that helped, and a lot of things that didn't. I finally took a ring I'd done with me to the local shop, and asked the guy there what I was doing wrong. He gave me some tips for the climate we live in that just about overnight solved all my issues. Use the resources and experience available to you!
  • Look at things from an outsider's perspective: I always show my pens to my wife. I no longer tell her what's "wrong" with a pen. She looks very critically at my pens, and rarely finds any problems. And to be honest, if I put the pen aside for a month and come back after having done some other projects, I usually can't remember--or find--the issues I'd seen before. And when I show my pens to other people, they don't spot the issues. A less-than-perfect fitment where I'm off by a couple thousandths of an inch is annoying to me, but invisible to all but the most critical of fellow turners and the most demanding of buyers--and those types of buyers understand that the quality they demand comes with a much higher price tag.
 
RunnerVince said:
At six months in, I think you're doing pretty well. I would say I was maybe 18 months in before I was consistently satisfied with my pens. And I think that's the important thing...satisfied. As others have mentioned, perfection is illusive. If that's your goal, I think you're in for a rough ride. For me, the journey was about chasing individual improvements. What is the biggest "flaw" in your current work? Work on that. Then identify the next biggest flaw, and work on that, and so on. Some other tips:
  • Take your time, and pay attention: I would say 80% or more of my mistakes come from either rushing or losing focus. Unfortunately, it takes only a fraction of a second sometimes to completely blow up a pen.
  • Buy a bunch of slimlines, and get a bunch of cheap/free blanks: I think we all have a tendency to want to do the "nice" pen kits and the exotic woods/segmented blanks, but going straight there is a waste. Cheap kits and cheap wood will get you the practice you need.
  • Don't be in a rush to spend money on equipment: My grandpa always said "it's a ****-poor craftsman that blames his tools." Not always the case, but a good rule of thumb. I have had a few instances where a change of equipment fixed an issue I was having (moving to TBC, for example, drastically reduced issues with non-concentricity). But in a lot of cases, it turned out to be an issue of technique. I even found a few cases where bad technique followed me through equipment changes, and I still got the bad results the new equipment was supposed to fix.
  • Get advice: This forum is an amazing resource. If you have one, a local(ish) woodturning shop is a great resource too. And if there's a local club, that can be a huge help also. I was having so many issues with my CA finish at one point. I'd read tons of advice here, and tried a lot of things that helped, and a lot of things that didn't. I finally took a ring I'd done with me to the local shop, and asked the guy there what I was doing wrong. He gave me some tips for the climate we live in that just about overnight solved all my issues. Use the resources and experience available to you!
  • Look at things from an outsider's perspective: I always show my pens to my wife. I no longer tell her what's "wrong" with a pen. She looks very critically at my pens, and rarely finds any problems. And to be honest, if I put the pen aside for a month and come back after having done some other projects, I usually can't remember--or find--the issues I'd seen before. And when I show my pens to other people, they don't spot the issues. A less-than-perfect fitment where I'm off by a couple thousandths of an inch is annoying to me, but invisible to all but the most critical of fellow turners and the most demanding of buyers--and those types of buyers understand that the quality they demand comes with a much higher price tag.
Click to expand...
And you will have all those slimlines you learned on to give as thank-you gifts to the mailman, UPS guy, lawn service people, etc. They are usually thrilled and don't know they are "just cheap slimlines." They see them as handcrafted gifts to treasure.
 
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