Diamond segments

[SteveJ]

Did a little segmenting, attempting to get a diamond illusion pattern. First I put together 16 strips to create this illusion pattern:

When I tried to cut the staves the saw just spit them out and broke the pieces, they were just a little too small, so instead I glued 2 together and sandwiched a couple of those glue-ups between a piece of mahogany. This is the blank before turning.

Here is the end result:

 

[Pierre---]

It is a very nice segmenting, but isn't the illusion lost?
Maybe you could try sanding instead of sawing.

 

[SteveJ]

Yeah, I knew I was going to lose the illusion once I gave up on the staves. I was hoping that the end result would give me decent diamonds and am happy with it.

 

[mark james]

Sigh..., The final pen is extremely nice. Alas, not what you intended (I do understand), but still a great design.

I'm still torn between sanding the segments or trying to cut on the Byrnes. (I've had no real shop time for segmenting the past few weeks, and life is getting more "complicated," so it may be a while for me).

All I can suggest at this time is do it 5-6 more times... You will get closer each trial.

But, I like seeing what you are doing.

Mark

 

[SteveAxelrod]

I don't know the technicalities but I know what I like. Nice looking pen!

 

[jttheclockman]

Very cool

I have mentioned this before that I have a few pens saved in a file that would love to try at some time to not only see if I could solve the riddle of making but to also honor those that did make them and some of these the people have passed on but I still want to do them and honor them and here is one by DCBLUESMAN ( Lou Metcalf) It happens to be a diamond pattern close to what you are showing. Brings back memories.

http://www.penturners.org/olduploads/DCBluesman/2007929181523_CaptiveDiamonds.jpg

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Great result in the end and very inspiring. Just a shame you've gone to so much trouble and then put it on a humble Sierra type kit.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[SteveJ]

Sigh..., The final pen is extremely nice. Alas, not what you intended (I do understand), but still a great design.

I'm still torn between sanding the segments or trying to cut on the Byrnes. (I've had no real shop time for segmenting the past few weeks, and life is getting more "complicated," so it may be a while for me).

All I can suggest at this time is do it 5-6 more times... You will get closer each trial.

But, I like seeing what you are doing.

Mark

I noticed couple of things when attempting to cut the staves on this - it helps to have a larger piece to work with so that you have more surface area touching the tape. I got greedy and cut my original segments in half in the hopes of getting two blanks. So I started out with only 8 pieces, which turned into the 16 you see in the first picture. That resulted in pieces which were pretty thin and didn't have enough surface area to stick to the double sided tape I am presently using.

I am pretty sure that even if I had cut the staves the result would have been unsatisfactory. The diamonds would have disappeared completely at the point of the stave since they didn't start out big enough.

On the bright side, I may actually get two more blanks out of this, although each will present differently.

 

[SteveJ]

Very cool

I have mentioned this before that I have a few pens saved in a file that would love to try at some time to not only see if I could solve the riddle of making but to also honor those that did make them and some of these the people have passed on but I still want to do them and honor them and here is one by DCBLUESMAN ( Lou Metcalf) It happens to be a diamond pattern close to what you are showing. Brings back memories.

http://www.penturners.org/olduploads/DCBluesman/2007929181523_CaptiveDiamonds.jpg

Because of this adventure, I can do that now!

 

[SteveJ]

Great result in the end and very inspiring. Just a shame you've gone to so much trouble and then put it on a humble Sierra type kit.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Since I don't sell pens, I prefer not to invest too much in a kit. As a practice run I didn't really want to put this on a two piece kit anyway. It will take me a couple of weeks, but I will use some of the leftover pieces from this construction to wrap around a slimline!

(It is easier for me to give away a pen that cost me less than $7!)

 

[mark james]

Sigh..., The final pen is extremely nice. Alas, not what you intended (I do understand), but still a great design.

I'm still torn between sanding the segments or trying to cut on the Byrnes. (I've had no real shop time for segmenting the past few weeks, and life is getting more "complicated," so it may be a while for me).

All I can suggest at this time is do it 5-6 more times... You will get closer each trial.

But, I like seeing what you are doing.

Mark

I noticed couple of things when attempting to cut the staves on this - it helps to have a larger piece to work with so that you have more surface area touching the tape. I got greedy and cut my original segments in half in the hopes of getting two blanks. So I started out with only 8 pieces, which turned into the 16 you see in the first picture. That resulted in pieces which were pretty thin and didn't have enough surface area to stick to the double sided tape I am presently using.

I am pretty sure that even if I had cut the staves the result would have been unsatisfactory. The diamonds would have disappeared completely at the point of the stave since they didn't start out big enough.

On the bright side, I may actually get two more blanks out of this, although each will present differently.

Yes, I found that out also. For this set, each stave was .372" at the side opposite the point. I also used a piece of tape overlaping the stave onto the angle guide. This helped to hold the stave better, and I used new tape for each flip. The second picture, the inlay (not a stave) was also about .358" which I want to attempt again, but thinner.

As to the diamonds disappearing, I'm not so sure. As the dimensions hold from the outside to the middle, with your stave construction, I think the pattern will hold; although the inner symmetry is our real nemesis.

I'm looking forward to your progress.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

I wonder if there is any 3D software out there where one can design and see what the outcome will be. [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[jttheclockman]

These are small fragile pieces you are working with and I can relate to the problems you are having. I found when cutting things like this I use turners tape and get it at Peachtree and it works well. Strong enough to hold but easy enough to peel off without breaking. The part with all the segments is putting stress on your cut too because you are cutting many different grain directions. A blade will cut better on a grain direction one way or other and the use of combo blades can help some on bigger pieces but some pieces of this size it won't matter much. I still believe you get more accurate cuts and fits when cutting as opposed to trying to sneak up with sanding. Not sure if it would help or if at all possible but a good way to cut small pieces or staves is to be able to start with a larger piece and slice small sections off about the thickness of the blade or less. This puts less strain on the wood especially if there is any amount of runout in the arbor of the saw. The blade is now cutting from one side of the blade as opposed to both when you run a piece of wood through it making a kerf the same size of the blade. Hope that makes sense. Good luck and keep at it. Looks like you are having fun.

 

[SteveJ]

These are small fragile pieces you are working with and I can relate to the problems you are having. I found when cutting things like this I use turners tape and get it at Peachtree and it works well. Strong enough to hold but easy enough to peel off without breaking. The part with all the segments is putting stress on your cut too because you are cutting many different grain directions. A blade will cut better on a grain direction one way or other and the use of combo blades can help some on bigger pieces but some pieces of this size it won't matter much. I still believe you get more accurate cuts and fits when cutting as opposed to trying to sneak up with sanding. Not sure if it would help or if at all possible but a good way to cut small pieces or staves is to be able to start with a larger piece and slice small sections off about the thickness of the blade or less. This puts less strain on the wood especially if there is any amount of runout in the arbor of the saw. The blade is now cutting from one side of the blade as opposed to both when you run a piece of wood through it making a kerf the same size of the blade. Hope that makes sense. Good luck and keep at it. Looks like you are having fun.

Alas, the Byrnes tablesaw lacks the ability to change the angle of the blade...unless I buy the auxiliary tilting table - but at the price I get for the pens I give away that $125 will be a while in coming! I've been using scotch double sided tape which has proven to be not strong enough! Wish I had a woodworking store close - I hate paying for shipping for a couple of rolls of tape!

 

[jttheclockman]

These are small fragile pieces you are working with and I can relate to the problems you are having. I found when cutting things like this I use turners tape and get it at Peachtree and it works well. Strong enough to hold but easy enough to peel off without breaking. The part with all the segments is putting stress on your cut too because you are cutting many different grain directions. A blade will cut better on a grain direction one way or other and the use of combo blades can help some on bigger pieces but some pieces of this size it won't matter much. I still believe you get more accurate cuts and fits when cutting as opposed to trying to sneak up with sanding. Not sure if it would help or if at all possible but a good way to cut small pieces or staves is to be able to start with a larger piece and slice small sections off about the thickness of the blade or less. This puts less strain on the wood especially if there is any amount of runout in the arbor of the saw. The blade is now cutting from one side of the blade as opposed to both when you run a piece of wood through it making a kerf the same size of the blade. Hope that makes sense. Good luck and keep at it. Looks like you are having fun.

Alas, the Byrnes tablesaw lacks the ability to change the angle of the blade...unless I buy the auxiliary tilting table - but at the price I get for the pens I give away that $125 will be a while in coming! I've been using scotch double sided tape which has proven to be not strong enough! Wish I had a woodworking store close - I hate paying for shipping for a couple of rolls of tape!

Steve this is one of the true downsides to that saw. I wrote to him a few years ago pleading that he incorporate a tilting arbor and his words he has the additional jig that satisfies peoples needs and the cost would be great. He could not see me but I surely was shaking my head because this saw is so over priced as it is for what it does. Yes it a a precision tool but not at those prices. That is a story to be debated so won't go into it.

I know the tape you mention and it is not good tape for doing woodworking. I have used that tape for paper patterns but that is it. I usually buy the turners tape at woodworking shows when I went and got a good show price and stocked up. But they moved my woodworking show so now I stopped going as of last year but will still buy on line. I use alot of it for various things so buy in bulk.

As far as the tilting table I suggest you make a jig that will ride over the fence to keep it accurate or even one that will ride against it. Over would be more accurate and that is key. Your jig can have interchangeable sleds of different angles to make different amount of staves per blank. Not that hard to do and the use of a zero clearance throat plate is a must too. I use a 10" Delta contractors saw for all my projects and I have no problem working around small pieces. But jigs are the key.

If I need really super holding power for double sided tape I use outdoor carpet tape from Home Depot in the carpet dept. That stuff is a bear to get off and will leave residue behind but holding power is uncomparable.

www.ptreeusa.com/rtr_jigs_double_sided_tape.htm

 

[magpens]

A very beautiful pen !!!! . I really like the ideas involved.

Did not notice this thread when it first appeared. . Am subscribing now to get further posts.