Gee Vic, from the comments clarifying the term - YOU are a "Bespoke Individual!"I'm seeing the term Bespoke Pen used more frequently. I may have missed a terminology change somewhere along the line. What exactly is a "Bespoke Pen"?
Hope I'm not opening a can of controversy!
I agree Chuck. It really sounds like a made-up word that sounds silly. JMO.I've often wondered WHY/Where the word suddenly became attached to the kitless/componentless pen making process. I could be wrong again, but it seems that in the midst of youtube videos on the HOW TO Make a kitless pen, someone felt the need to be the Standout amoung all others, and placed a keyword that was different from the rest. BESPOKE was the best they could come up with. Just my opinion, but also in my opinion it makes little sense to me, and I feel it degrades the craft to a degree. And I'm being nice about it. It's partly the reason you don't see many kitless pens from my shop these days.
I was never good at grammar. However, tomorrow night is Friday at my house, that means "Bespoke Pizza Night for my wife." .Bespoke is "made to order" or "made for or commissioned" for a customer. So, if I make a custom (kitless) pen to place in inventory to sell to anyone then is it a bespoke pen? Likewise, if a customer specifically orders and prepays for a snake skin sierra, is it a bespoke pen? Just a couple of thoughts.
A verb that acts as a noun is called a gerund. What is a verb used as an adjective called?
Do a good turn daily!
People classifying kitless pens using a term you dislike is influencing your decision to make fewer kitless pens?I've often wondered WHY/Where the word suddenly became attached to the kitless/componentless pen making process. I could be wrong again, but it seems that in the midst of youtube videos on the HOW TO Make a kitless pen, someone felt the need to be the Standout amoung all others, and placed a keyword that was different from the rest. BESPOKE was the best they could come up with. Just my opinion, but also in my opinion it makes little sense to me, and I feel it degrades the craft to a degree. And I'm being nice about it. It's partly the reason you don't see many kitless pens from my shop these days.
Ash this topic about kitless and kit pens has been beaten to death here many times. Especially when people sell their pens. Then we got into calling them components instead of kits. If you do a search here you will see lots of discussions on this topic. To have to make up a word to make sales is fraud to me. You and I make custom handmade pens one of a kind pens. I say one of a kind because no 2 pens are exactly alike when making anything handmade. Make it on some tool or laser than it is not hand made any more. Yes you program the tool but it was not your hand that produced the pen. Again a topic that can beat with a stick. People have asked how far does a pen have to be made for it to be kitless if you use kit nibs and things like that. Again subjective. Take a look at the Bash contest here that is held every Feb and look at the kitless contest and you will see rollerballs, ballpoint and fountain pens. There are some talented pen makers here that use metal lathes and make all parts except for ink refills. Whoever placed the word Bespoke on this I have no idea why. It is this generation of trying to reinvent the English language. It does not even roll off the tongue when used. Custom made should be used on etsy and any other selling sight and more people would understand that than bespoke. I had to actually look the word up because I never used it in my entire life.I’ve thought about this a lot.
It’s interesting that we call them kitless pens. Pens were being made this way long before kits were invented. So if anything there are just “pens”
and “kit pens”. Like cars and kit cars. I’d prefer just “pens”‘to describe everything to be honest.
I make both types and only use the phrase “kit pens” or “kitless” on these forums with other pen makers because we all understand what we mean. Even then we could just call them all pens as everybody can pretty much tell in most cases if it’s kit or not. To my ear they’re not very attractive terms for describing what are very beautiful items. “Kit pen” somehow sounds a bit cheap to me and “kitless” sounds like maybe you couldn’t be bothered to use a kit .
At pen shows the customers will generally know the difference but when selling to the general public they don’t have any idea what those phrases mean. So I just say they are all hand made. If they ask why the prices vary I explain the use of components and how that effects the amount of work and hence the price..
The only real label I use is “bespoke” if a customer wants something specifically different from my standard “off the peg” models. Because anything bespoke is immediately more expensive right?
Been here for 15 years and never seen or read the word bespoke untill this past few days. I guess it is another term we need to put in the library of used words and abbreviations with an explanation what it refers to. Guess I will have to get use to it. Like the "New Norm"
Words are very culturally sensitive. The same meaning and value does not translate to another culture, but the vast majority of people are set on the "meaning" of the word than the value of the word.To my ear they’re not very attractive terms for describing what are very beautiful items. “Kit pen” somehow sounds a bit cheap to me and “kitless” sounds like maybe you couldn’t be bothered to use a kit .
. . . Because anything bespoke is immediately more expensive right?
Yep.Words are very culturally sensitive. The same meaning and value does not translate to another culture, but the vast majority of people are set on the "meaning" of the word than the value of the word.
Japanese word "Nesshin" means "enthusiastic" in English. But Nesshin is a negative word in that culture (among older people) while enthusiastic is a positive word in English. Japanese "enthusiasm" = the nail (individual) that sticks up gets hammered down!
Many of the same Word in Britain to Australia to US have varied meanings and values.
So when you see topics and people show a horse being beaten. Why is it my words that get taken out of context Tony and trampled on?? I just used those words to explain that topic has been talked about intensely and do a search and you can see some of the past responses. That is all. Just so tired of this picking on me for things I post. I post alot here and this is getting annoying. If you do not like my choice of words just block me Tony. Simple thing to do.!!!!!!!!!! Trolling like this brings out the worst. No need for this.Something is only "beaten to death" if the person asking the question thinks so (and therefore unlikely to be asked). This forum/site is for sharing of information in pursuit and advancement of penturning etc among other hobby and non-hobby relates topics. It welcomes and serves turners of all levels. It is silent on the what can be asked or how often question about penturning can be asked. The IAP has some very simple rules which a minority of folks violate, but attempt to conceal them with smiley faces and telling us how they are not make an X or Y (prohibited statement). They must think I am stupid, and I am fine with that.
If the admins are listening, please let me know if the the IAP's charter has changed. I really don't want to hear from anyone else but the moderators on this. We want peace on the freakin' streets, but some can't accept a freak' word that someone chooses or more benignly, simply asks for a definition. I see the same cr#$ on the FB site (some were former members of this site). We are still talking about penturning right!? Unfreakin' believable. Now, my rant is over.
I found that in a couple of shows I did some year back... I did a show in Oak Ridge at their Civic Center... I had mostly pepper mills and bowls, but did have a few pens... there was two other pen makers there as well... one was an older fellow who had maybe 2 dozen pens, mostly the Americana style sold by CSUSA.... the other fellow had a pretty good assortment that he was selling pretty cheap.... in conversation with him, casually asked his finish method... was quickly told that he had figured out his finish by himself and it was proprietary... everyone else could figure out their own finish... his finish wasn't that good and in the end both the older fellow with only 2 dozen pens and me with about 15 or 20 sold more than he did, even though our prices were higher.I quite going to knife shows as I found many of the makers to be very snobbish and in fact not actually the maker.
Big fan of Charles Harrington Elster (LIU). Own many of his recordings and recommended books.I always thought of "bespoke" as meaning made to the customer's specifications. But then, I'm a linguist (5 languages) and words and their meanings may mean different things to me. I will admit that I cringe sometimes at the corruption of perfectly good words with very specific, useful meanings, mostly by Madison Avenue.
Thanks Sharon. I learned early on, both on other forums and here that words have different meanings in different regions in the US, and within industries, the same word is often used differently from region to region.