Dayacom Group Buy

[timcbs]

Hi, I buy from Taiwan all of the time and have one of my suppliers asking me if I wanted to buy pen kits direct, I am sure it is from Dayacom, keep in mind when you import from Taiwan you must have a Bonded Agent and I do also you have to pay Taxes and Duties.

 

[Mapster]

Jeff, I threw that in because it made sense at the time when I was hurrying to start the thread. Jskeen, my day job is school, and I was planning on someone else to think it was a good idea and take over. I don't have the resources or time to carry this out, it was an idea that had to be thrown out on the table. I don't think it would even be legal for me to work with customs and such. I threw out the idea, now it is up to you guys to decide what to do with it. I think a group buy from Gary is very possible and should be set up, personally. It solves all of the big problems, and I am sure he would give a pretty deep discount if we get the numbers going. Plus with 20% off if we do it in August. Lets get that going for everyone's benefit.

 

[wolftat]

It looks to me like the 5 facts you have listed appear to be opinions. Please double check you sources. I'm sure your intentions are honorable and well intended but there is a whole lot of information you need to research before you plan something like this.

 

[Monty]

Unless someone wants to step up and do a GB on these, I think we are beating a dead horse.
And please PM me before you start taking orders.

 

[Smitty37]

Bonded Agent

Hi, I buy from Taiwan all of the time and have one of my suppliers asking me if I wanted to buy pen kits direct, I am sure it is from Dayacom, keep in mind when you import from Taiwan you must have a Bonded Agent and I do also you have to pay Taxes and Duties.

Bonded agent can be easily found, there are some located near every international airport and will arrange everything you need including ground shipping if you can't or don't want to pick it up. In addition, if you pay for express shipping via DHL/TNT/UPS you don't need an separate agent, they will do it for you. You are still required to pay any duties and customs fees. Buying in large quantities having your own agent can well be cheaper.

 

[wolftat]

I think we are beating a dead horse.
.

I have a 5 gallon bucket of horse tenderizer just waiting. :biggrin:

 

[WHSKYrvr1]

I'd like to purchase some other than PSI kits...

 

[Smitty37]

Yup

It looks to me like the 5 facts you have listed appear to be opinions. Please double check you sources. I'm sure your intentions are honorable and well intended but there is a whole lot of information you need to research before you plan something like this.

Amen!!!!

 

[phillywood]

Mapster, I respect your intentions, when school start next week are you going to pursue this? have you ever gone and dealt with big guys form china? iN doing commerce with out of the country folks you have a lot of issues that you have to take into considerations. In addition, You haven't established the fact that if any local chapters would even be up for such responsibilities. they don't get paid and everything is on volunteer basis. When a vendor or distributor resells and item it's because they also figure out their profit and the over heads. Our group buy can not overcome that. Provided that Dayacom would even talk to us.

 

[Smitty37]

A lot

I noticed on the dayacom site this pen is only 50 pieces http://www.dayacom.com.tw/product_02_limit.php?product_id=963&prod_item_id=17
wonder what the cost is

That is a rather high priced completed pen...not a kit.

 

[bitshird]

I noticed on the dayacom site this pen is only 50 pieces http://www.dayacom.com.tw/product_02_limit.php?product_id=963&prod_item_id=17
wonder what the cost is

That is a rather high priced completed pen...not a kit.

I would venture a guess at about 260.00 to 325.00 a pen. it does sport an 18kt Gold nib,

 

[bitshird]

Mapster, the capitol required to do a buy like you are suggesting would be in the 20 to 30 thousand dollar range, FOB your house. That would most likely get you 2 different plating's on 2 models of High end Fountains and Rollerball kits, They won't deal less than 5oo piece lots each plating each type. Not necessarily the Emperors and stuff but they have some butt kicking kits.

 

[Smitty37]

Group buy

I don't have any skin in this game because I don't sell any high end kits and wouldn't participate in a group buy of them, so I can give you an unbiased opinion. Forget a group buy involving more than one style and forget doing a direct buy from an overseas source..

first, you won't get any better price if you buy a half dozen styles than if you buy one....
second, forget any idea of 1000 members participating, that ain't gonna happen and if you have ever tried to deal with keeping track of something for 25 or 50 people you understand that you don't want to mess with more than that....
third, you will have one member needing to keep track of a bunch of other peoples money and with high end kits that could be a big stack of money at that...
fourth, you are going to be moving a lot of money; you pay via paypal 3% charge on every transaction $3.20 for $100 for most it is charged to the receiver of the funds but the buyer has to pay it. That only gets the money as far as the member coordinator, then there is a charge to transfer the funds to the overseas about 4% more depending on how you do it, direct wire transfer might be a little less but would give a foreign source access to the coordinators bank account...
fifth, that money is going to pass through the hands of a person and if they happen to get audited by the IRS they better understand the tax consequences. Uncle Sam can be very unforgiving about things.
sixth, the coordinator better know enough about customs and importing to not run afoul of the "rules" for instance the importer is responsible for labeling them "Made in China" or "Made in Taiwan" not the exporter. They will label them for you at an added cost. That applies whether you import directly from there or indirectly from another country. In fact, it applies even if you just want to resell a few kits that you buy from one of our Australian suppliers. What you use yourself doesn't have to be labeled but what you sell does. It is not overly difficult to get things through customs, if you know how to do it or if you pay the shipping company to do it for you but it's easy to run afoul of the rules.

Given all that, I would suggest that you keep all group buys to dealing with a US importer who already has dealings with the company you want to buy from. Otherwise folks, you are opening a can of worms I don't think most of you will want to deal with. My opinion.

 

[Smitty37]

yep

I noticed on the dayacom site this pen is only 50 pieces http://www.dayacom.com.tw/product_02_limit.php?product_id=963&prod_item_id=17
wonder what the cost is

That is a rather high priced completed pen...not a kit.

I would venture a guess at about 260.00 to 325.00 a pen. it does sport an 18kt Gold nib,

I would guess that is about what their price is to the "agent" they are looking for....

 

[Smitty37]

Business

As an afterthought, I can't imagine anyone with a business coordinating a group buy. I try to be honest on my business taxes and coordinating a group buy would be a real can of worms --- all that money running through my business accounts without the intent of making a profit??? Or, setting up separate accounts to handle it. There might be a businessman out there somewhere who will do that but I sure wouldn't be that guy.

 

[Monty]

I don't have any skin in this game because I don't sell any high end kits and wouldn't participate in a group buy of them, so I can give you an unbiased opinion. Forget a group buy involving more than one style and forget doing a direct buy from an overseas source..

first, you won't get any better price if you buy a half dozen styles than if you buy one....
second, forget any idea of 1000 members participating, that ain't gonna happen and if you have ever tried to deal with keeping track of something for 25 or 50 people you understand that you don't want to mess with more than that....
third, you will have one member needing to keep track of a bunch of other peoples money and with high end kits that could be a big stack of money at that...
fourth, you are going to be moving a lot of money; you pay via paypal 3% charge on every transaction $3.20 for $100 for most it is charged to the receiver of the funds but the buyer has to pay it. That only gets the money as far as the member coordinator, then there is a charge to transfer the funds to the overseas about 4% more depending on how you do it, direct wire transfer might be a little less but would give a foreign source access to the coordinators bank account...
fifth, that money is going to pass through the hands of a person and if they happen to get audited by the IRS they better understand the tax consequences. Uncle Sam can be very unforgiving about things.
sixth, the coordinator better know enough about customs and importing to not run afoul of the "rules" for instance the importer is responsible for labeling them "Made in China" or "Made in Taiwan" not the exporter. They will label them for you at an added cost. That applies whether you import directly from there or indirectly from another country. In fact, it applies even if you just want to resell a few kits that you buy from one of our Australian suppliers. What you use yourself doesn't have to be labeled but what you sell does. It is not overly difficult to get things through customs, if you know how to do it or if you pay the shipping company to do it for you but it's easy to run afoul of the rules.

Given all that, I would suggest that you keep all group buys to dealing with a US importer who already has dealings with the company you want to buy from. Otherwise folks, you are opening a can of worms I don't think most of you will want to deal with. My opinion.

Smitty,
I think you have very well summed up the pitfalls of doing a GB from overseas.

 

[ed4copies]

There are people here (other than me) who could run such a purchase. But, in general, I agree with Smitty.

Also, the ONLY way you will get something to work is to find a number of participants who will buy EXACTLY the SAME pen---style and RB or FP, NOT both.

And they will have to be willing to purchase without knowing the final cost. Good luck with that!!

 

[JMANNN]

I contacted Dayacom two days ago because I was having trouble locating their products to purchase and asked to buy direct in quantities I could handle. They referred me to Smitty's Pen Works. That helped me with the Emperor kit I wanted but not the rest of the styles I want that Smitty doesn't carry. It's very difficult to get the "High End" stuff out of Dayacom. I'd be up to the direct purchase but only if the retailers denied carrying the "Super High End" stuff first. A direct purchase maybe the only way we get our hands on the super high end stuff from Dayacom.

 

[JMANNN]

Now that I have read all the threads. Smitty are you up to carrying a few more of the high Dayacom Styles? I know you have the Emperor. Not sure if you have the Jr. Emperor but I'm interested in that and the Floral Classic. I would diffidently take a few of those off your hands.

 

[Daniel]

I am not interested mostly because of:

A. I never made any of these styles before so I have no clue if they would sell well or not.

B. I agree 100% with Monty on this one. I do not want to take over the job of our distributors. It is their job to stock hundreds of kits in all the colors. Not ours. If there are so many people who want this but demand a lower price tell THEM. If they knew that we wanted to buy 1000 kits at a time wouldn't you think they would love to sell us that? There was previous mention of working with Ed & Dawn on this this is great and all, but why not work with CSUSA? They have the deeper pockets to perhaps make this work, Not to say that Ed & Dawn don't (i really have no clue) but this may be something they may not even be interested in yet. (Although I know Ed will insert his .02 worth, and look forward to it)

actually most of their kits have a 500 piece minimum order. some are more like 200 or 250.

I have told them and the answer is no, they are not interested.

In short it seems much of this thread is based upon "What we want to do we can do" assumptions. Also not true. It also seems to me that has already been discovered.

I do recommend to anyone thinking of organizing a group buy that you do the leg work first. Get answers to questions before you answer the questions of others. In my experience two e-mails to Dayacom would tell you all you need to know. The first would be answered with a fairly nice explanation of why they are not interested. The second would be ignored permanently. I have gone through it twice. Dayacom is interested in protecting its relationship with its current customers.

Dayacom sells some of the most popular products that we use. If a group buy could be done it would have been done long ago. I know I would have done it.

As for the idea that a business owner will use there ability to facilitate a group buy. Group buys are competition. Also ordering products to sell them is what they do to make money, I am not sure they would be to excited about doing it for free. a 5 dollar per order mark up is not exactly profits either, maybe if all they have to do is place the final order and have it shipped to someone for repacking and shipping. I would not allow my business reputation to be tied to any such plan. Sorry but a good reputation is a hard thing to come by and a bad reputation is even harder to get rid of.

 

[Smitty37]

Now that I have read all the threads. Smitty are you up to carrying a few more of the high Dayacom Styles? I know you have the Emperor. Not sure if you have the Jr. Emperor but I'm interested in that and the Floral Classic. I would diffidently take a few of those off your hands.

I just had an offer out for Jr. Emperor and it failed to attract enough interest. I'll probably offer it again around October.

The truth is that I can only work the ones that Dayacom will sell in retail quantities of 30 and 50 kit orders, and then only if there are enough buyers.

While I am a business and Dayacom will sell to me wholesale. I have never had an offer approach the 300 to 500 kits I would need to get Dayacom to sell to me wholesale. I can't order $15K to $30K worth of kits unless most of them are sold. Dayacom will not mix and match if they have an MOQ of 300 --- 299 of one kit and 1 of another won't get you there.

 

[JMANNN]

Smitty, I understand. Just frustrating for me. I key on the High End market and I've made everything out there from the the big retailers to death. Customers want to see new product, styles, etc. That Floral Job from Dayacom would be the answer. If you still want to move that JR. Emperor PM me and we'll work it out. I'll need a set of bushings if you have them as well. I'll take an Emperor with a set of bushings along with it.