Couple of bowl turning questions

[FGarbrecht]

I'm trying to teach myself some basic bowlturning and have run into a couple of problems. [My first bowl went surprisingly well, and my wife wouldn't let me add this first effort to the firewood pile. She insisted I put a finish on it and give it to someone as a gift, so my daughter is getting a bowl for Christmas].

Problem #1: one of the screws I used to attach the faceplate sheared off into the wood as I was attaching it. I turned the outside of the piece anyway, figuring that the bowl blank was pretty balanced and not very heavy so the remaining screws would hold just fine, and they have. Now I'm nearly ready to hollow out the inside and I've got to remove the screw. (It's a small faceplate so the screw is located in an area of wood that is going to be removed when I hollow the inside). I figured I would just have to use a chisel and hammer to get it out, but if anyone has better suggestion(s) I'd be interested. And yes, I already heard not to use sheetrock screws, and I won't ever do it again, I've learned my lesson.

Problem #2: I'm trying to finish the outside of the bowl before turning it around to hollow it on the lathe, and the sanding isn't going great. On the opposite sides of the blank (this is a piece of Padauk), where the end grain comes out it seems impossible to get a smooth finish. I've tried used Abranet (by hand on the lathe) - 240, 320, 400, 600. I've also tried power sanding with a rotary setup on the spinning lathe. Am I just not being patient enough? I just put on a coat of Mylands sanding sealer hoping to close the problematic end grain. Any suggestions here? I've seen some you-tube videos about basic bowl work and they sometimes use abrasive paste products for polishing after the initial sanding; is this necessary and/or desirable? Any products you recommend?

 

[bsshog40]

Well I've only done a few small bowls myself but hope I can help. First off, if the broken screw is in the area that will be hollowed out, then you could drill a hole next to the screw and pry it out from the side. Then I would suggest, if the hole is in a good spot, to use a forstner bit to make a large hole in the middle of the bowl. Less hollowing to do this way also.
As for the end grain, if it can't be sanded out, have you thought about just filling the voids in and then sanding smooth?
That's all I can suggest. I'm sure more experienced turners can help. Good luck!

 

[randyrls]

where the end grain comes out it seems impossible to get a smooth finish. I've tried used Abranet (by hand on the lathe) - 240, 320, 400, 600. I've also tried power sanding with a rotary setup on the spinning lathe. Am I just not being patient enough? I just put on a

If your piece is still mounted on the lathe, you can use a negative rake scraper to clean up the torn end-grain on the inside of the bowl. This one is not nageative rake, but it is easy to add a small negative rake to the cutting edge. This is a finishing tool and not a stock removal tool. The bur on the cutting edge will not last long, but the tool is only used to cut the torn end-grain.

 

[howsitwork]

I'm a bit surprised the grain is tearing up ? Paduak is hard and fairly close grained ( usually).

So a couple of suggestions

1 apply some sanding sealer to the troublesome areas, allow to dry then very gently, repeat VERY gently apply a scraper at an angle to the spinning bowl. You're shear scraping ie using an angled shearing edge to the bowl. the heavier the scraper the better and the gentler you're application of it the better.

2 what sort of finish do you want to use? if it's say danish oil then wet sand with the danish oil on the paper and that will grain fill as you sand it. Note you cant take any short cuts with this the only way to get a deep finish is multiple layers of thin finish. Basically the more the better and allow it to cure overnight after 1 or 2 coats.

3 power sanding can be useful in the earlier grits or on a particularly troublesome bit ( with lathe stationary) but again be gentle end grain is harder effectively than side grain so you can created dints or hollows if too enthusiastic. Sand along the grain by hand afterwards to ensure you get a fine finish. You can even use card scrapers with care but it's a bit tricky (and to be honest I try and avoid it if I can).

4 negative rake scrapers are easier to use as mentioned by Randy but even with them BE GENTLE.

5 I would avoid abrasive polishes as , in my experience , they cause more problems than they solve. I've only seen them used successfully in buffing systems which you use after sanding and finishing . Even in the hands of experts I've seen many a bowl go flying when they don't grip it tight enough or get the angle on the buffing wheel wrong.

for the screw I suggest just turn the wood away on either side with a parting tool and create a gap on either side then snap it out with a gentle tap,sideways with a punch.

Enjoy it bowl turning is fun.

Hope that's of use.

Ian

 

[duncsuss]

Start sanding at 80 grit instead of 240 (otherwise all you are doing is polishing the tear out.)

 

[Gary Beasley]

Sounds like your tool was a bit dull or your technique was a bit off. Go to the AAW site http://www.aawforum.org/community and read up.a Your is a pretty common problem for novices and you will find lots of discussion to fill you in on whats going on.

 

[bmachin]

Sounds like your tool was a bit dull or your technique was a bit off. Go to the AAW site http://www.aawforum.org/community and read up.a Your is a pretty common problem for novices and you will find lots of discussion to fill you in on whats going on.

Also take a look at this series of videos from Stuart Batty:

SB Tools

Stuart Batty combines his unique heritage with thirty-five years of experience as a world-class instructor to offer a breakthrough in both tool design and method,…

vimeo.com

With respect to your the end grain problem the videos on the importance of sharpening are particularly relevant.

Bill

 

[TellicoTurning]

Not sure I can address the tear out any better than what has been said above. It is a major Pain when that happens, but you do have good suggestions above.

On the broken screw, I have dealt with that a number of times... even using the hex head sheet metal screws,I will occasionally get one to shear off, especially in really hard wood. As you've already noted, use only hardened steel screws, either phillips wood screws or I use the hex head sheet metal screws in number 10 or preferrably nr 12. Even they will develop metal fatigue and sometimes sheer off.
As suggested, a hole drilled along side the screw will sometimes give you enough room to pry it out,
or
since it's in the middle of the bowl and if you have room between the center and the rim, you can just turn the inside of the bowl, leaving the center in place until you are at a point that is below the screw point, then simply cut under the center and pop it out as a single piece.

 

[philipff]

A couple hours of hands on with an experienced teach, perhaps at a Woodcraft store, would do you a world of good. I spent years trying to teach myself and turned out a lot of junk. After a couple lessons with a pro I was in "a different world"! P.

 

[randyrls]

On the broken screw, I have dealt with that a number of times... even using the hex head sheet metal screws,I will occasionally get one to shear off, especially in really hard wood. As you've already noted, use only hardened steel screws, either phillips wood screws or I use the hex head sheet metal screws in number 10 or preferrably nr 12. Even they will develop metal fatigue and sometimes sheer off.
As suggested, a hole drilled along side the screw will sometimes give you enough room to pry it out,

I have started using a centering drill bit to start a pilot hole in hard woods. The bit centers the drill pilot hole nicely and only to about 5/8" deep.

Check for an AAW chapter in your area. As Phillip mentioned above nothing beats hands-on help.

Off to church now!

 

[FGarbrecht]

A couple hours of hands on with an experienced teach, perhaps at a Woodcraft store, would do you a world of good. I spent years trying to teach myself and turned out a lot of junk. After a couple lessons with a pro I was in "a different world"! P.

Good advice; I've looked for classes up here (upstate NY near Albany) and haven't found much (no woodworking stores within a reasonable number of miles (at least 75+) as far as I can tell). Apparently there are some AAW chapters scattered about in upstate that I should probably seek out for membership and instruction.

 

[monophoto]

Good advice; I've looked for classes up here (upstate NY near Albany) and haven't found much (no woodworking stores within a reasonable number of miles (at least 75+) as far as I can tell). Apparently there are some AAW chapters scattered about in upstate that I should probably seek out for membership and instruction.

Frederick

The local turning group in our area is the Adirondack Woodturners. They are a special interest group within the Northeast Woodworkers Association and meet regularly in Clifton Park. Also, they organize Totally Turning, a major symposium held each year in Saratoga Springs (scheduled for Mar 28-29 of next year). Totally Turning is fabulous, and I go every year. I've heard good things about Adirondack Woodturners meetings although I've never gotten to one - no good reason since they are 'just around the corner' from me.

Re #1 - yeah, that happens. Did it break inside the wood? If it broke outside the wood, you may be able to grip the broken bit with vice grips after you take it off the faceplate. Otherwise, you are stuck with having to carve away some of the surrounding wood to be able to grip the shank of the screw, and hoping that doesn't interfere with your design for the bottom of the bowl. This is one of the reasons why I've generally tried to stay away from faceplates although there are situations where they are the best way to mount a blank.

Re #2 - yeah, that also happens. I agree with Duncan Suss - there's no shame in using 80 grit sandpaper, but you do need to understand that if you start that low, you must work your way up through the grits to get a smooth surface.

 

[DrD]

Reason I got into woodturning in the first place was after watching some guy in the Tulsa, OK Woodcraft take a gnarly block of wood and convert it into one of the most beautiful, ultra-thin walled bowls I've ever seen. Sadly, the only bowl I've turned to date is a lidded bowl made from the remnants of one of the water oaks felled on our property during a tornado in 2001.

So good turning to ya, and let us old folks know of your continued successes.

DrD

 

[FGarbrecht]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I got out my round nose scraper (which I'd never used before) and carefully sharpened it up. A very light touch on the lathe took off the end-grain problem and left a beautiful finish needing very little sanding. I'm putting on some Danish oil tonight and will turn it around to finish it up tomorrow, just in time for Christmas (finger crossed).

 

[Gary Beasley]

I found some screws at Home Depot rated for drilling into concrete and they are about bombproof, takes a long time to wear out the phillips slot in the top.

 

[donstephan]

The screw I have seen most often recommended is a #10 or #12 hex head sheet metal screw. I've never had one break in wood, and the hex head provides a great grip.