Conflicting info on CA

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jbeyer

jbeyer

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So I'm getting conflicting info from people on CA finish...

I watched Grub32's video and I understand how to do that...

He doesn't sand between coats... do you guys do? what grit?

After he finishes he goes to MM... do you guys start lower than that?

Before you apply the CA... how high do you sand to? 800, 1200, 600?

When I applied the CA I was using thin, a paper towel, and 800 RPM. What I ran into was that the paper towel was heating up really quickly. Does this happen to you? Was I applying to much force? I was putting the CA on the paper towel. It feels to me like if I apply it to the blank then it goes everywhere.

Thanks guys,

Jonathan
 
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Some sand between coats. Some don't. Some do it sometimes, some
only do it if they're wearing yellow socks. What works for you?

I don't see a need to go lower than MM unless I see a need to go lower
than MM. Depends on what he CA looks like.

There's no one way to do CA. Just do what you do, watch what others
say they do and check their results. If you like theirs better, see what
they do differently than you and try it yourself.

Then you can do your own video :tongue:

The paper towel will heat up. The CA will get plenty hot, so you'll feel it. If
you use BLO with the CA that will keep the hot CA off of your fingers.
(mostly)
 
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Hey Jonathan, you are going to find very quickly that nearly everyone has their own method for applying a CA finish. Some use BLO/CA, some use CA/BLO, some use straight CA. Some will sand some will not.

As for the paper towel heating up quickly that is normal. That is the CA curing, don't be surprised if you find the PT smoking occasionally.

I usually sand to around 1200...any more than that and you are polishing the wood, some will say 600 is enough.

Here is the link to William Young's method of applying a CA finish. Some folks here use and like it as it is simple and quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcgOf4siqc

Long story short there is no "Correct" way. You will, as most of us have, experiment until you find what works for you.

Good Luck!
 
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I used to have a heck of a time with CA--after watching William Young's video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcgOf4siqc I get a good finish each time(so far).
A lot of people say don't use BLO first but I haven't had any problems so I will keep doing the BLO/CA finish.
But there are a lot of different ways to apply CA, you just need to find what works for you.
 
What they said .

There is NO right way to do a CA finish . Take all the different ways and then combine some or all and find YOUR way of doing it .
I don't use any BLO , instead I use a strip of 320 grit sandpaper , create some sanding dust then add some thin CA to create a slurry of CA and sanding dust to seal the grain and then use a strip of wax paper and more thin CA to finish (about 10 coats of thin is normally enough to give a good finish for me) .
The bottom line is you have to find a method that consistantly works for you .
 
The ONLY RIGHT way is MY way, cause it WORKS, for me.

(The above is a universally-true statement---as soon as you figure out how to "make it so"!!)
 
NewLondon88 said:
Some sand between coats. Some don't. Some do it sometimes, some
only do it if they're wearing yellow socks. What works for you?
Click to expand...

Great! Now I've got to order some f*&%ing yellow socks. You people are killing me with all of the extra stuff required to make beautiful pens.
 
Theres nothing like practice and experimenting, to find your way..
Then its your own finish..
My method= 5-8 coats straight CA lightly layed on using accl. on each layer. lathe turning slow, no sanding. Then over this I CA/BLO 5-8 coats lathe turning at high speed,no sanding. The CA/BLO steps takes care of the ridges, if any from applying straight CA. Then MM (dry) , then plastic polish done. If to my satisfaction. With this finish I get the depth of straight CA and the CA/BLO saves on sanding all the straight CA off and adds to the finish .
There is no one way to do a finish I know some even let theirs dry over night. I don't .I finish every pen while it is still on the lathe. Its me and the time thing. Its done lets go do another.I have demoed this finish twice at our local meetings and several have liked it and have asked ?s about it wanting a refresher.
I personaly like the very shiny finishes and this is one .I know several don't like the real shiny finishes. This is another ? that should be asked when you are looking for a finish is it real shiny with depth or just a coating over the blank or a satin finish. This is a very deep subject almost a vortex in its own right..
 
OK, Let me see if I can make this EVEN MORE confusing!

My CA/BLO method is somewhere between Grub 32 and William Young AND my routine changes for each different type of wood (cocobolo get one method, ebony gets another, big open grains get no BLO, Etc).

The only constant is that I ONLY use Bounty select-a-size paper towels. NOW, LET THE GAMES BEGIN, AGAIN!
 
This is all great info... I'm gonna have to find my own way (lots of practice I guess ;)

The trouble that I've found is that the CA goes over the bushings and its difficult to get the bushings off without breaking the blank or removing the CA. What do you guys do?

Jonathan
 
jbeyer said:
This is all great info... I'm gonna have to find my own way (lots of practice I guess ;)

The trouble that I've found is that the CA goes over the bushings and its difficult to get the bushings off without breaking the blank or removing the CA. What do you guys do?

Jonathan
Click to expand...

I would suggest getting the eliminator bushing from johnycnc here on the forum. The CA doesn't stick to these bushings. I used to have chips on the ends of all my pens because I glued the bushings to the pen. I don't have that problem any more with the eliminator bushings. Here is a link to them
http://penturnersproducts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_15

Jamie
 
Tim from WoodNWhimsies, did a demo at our chapter meeting, and it has really helped my CA Finishes. The basic's are as follows:
1.) Make sure wood is dry and properly sanded.
2.) Operate lathe at slow speed so it doesn't "sling" CA at you.
3.) 5 applications of Thin CA with folded paper towel, refold an use a different spot each application. Keep towel moving and stop when you feel any resistance.
4.) A light spray of accelerator between coats. Be sure previous coat is dry and hard before applying next coat.
5.) 5 applications of medium CA, with the same process as with the thin CA.

He didn't sand between coats as his application was smooth, but mentioned it may be necessary to is the application gets too rough.

When he finished he sanded with MM, I believe 1,500 progressive through 12,000. Tim dry sanded, and I use the same process, except that I wet sand. The whole process was done in 10-15 minutes. Tim basically said to find what works for you, there is no right or wrong way. I was/am impressed, sorry if I bored you.

I wish I had my video camera with me because it would have made a great tutorial.
 
jbeyer said:
The trouble that I've found is that the CA goes over the bushings and its difficult to get the bushings off without breaking the blank or removing the CA. What do you guys do?
Click to expand...

Jonathan; I put paste wax on the bushings before use. A Q-tip makes a good applicator. Make sure you coat the mandrel, and every surface of the bushing including the mandrel hole.

As others have mentioned a set of tapered bushings works well. You will still need to sand the ends of the blanks to remove any build up of CA on the ends.
 
randyrls said:
Jonathan; I put paste wax on the bushings before use. A Q-tip makes a good applicator. Make sure you coat the mandrel, and every surface of the bushing including the mandrel hole.

As others have mentioned a set of tapered bushings works well. You will still need to sand the ends of the blanks to remove any build up of CA on the ends.
Click to expand...

How do you avoid contaminating the CA finish with the wax? Isn't there a chance some could ooze out and get on the blank ?
 
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I also use wax on the bushings, I put a little on my finger and apply to end of the blank and then put a coat on the bushings, it's a very thin coat.
 
QUESTIONS:

I watched Grub32's video and I understand how to do that...

He doesn't sand between coats... do you guys do? what grit?

After he finishes he goes to MM... do you guys start lower than that?

Before you apply the CA... how high do you sand to? 800, 1200, 600?

When I applied the CA I was using thin, a paper towel, and 800 RPM. What I ran into was that the paper towel was heating up really quickly. Does this happen to you? Was I applying to much force? I was putting the CA on the paper towel. It feels to me like if I apply it to the blank then it goes everywhere.

ANSWERS: Yep.
 
I can't answer your question very easily, What I will do is make this clear as mud. What I have done is taken my own Strategy, mixed it with that of others and a favorite saying of a friend "it depends". I use BLO/CA, CA, Ca/BLO, CA+Plastic Polish and one or two other methods. I use a variety of finishes based on the wood, the coloring, how the CA is reacting, All my final finishes are uniform in appearance and the customer does not know how I applied the finish.
 
Lenny said:
How do you avoid contaminating the CA finish with the wax? Isn't there a chance some could ooze out and get on the blank ?
Click to expand...

Lenny; Don't know, never had the problem. The wax layer isn't that thick. You are just applying a wax to the bushing. Think of it like waxing your car, only much smaller! :smile: I apply wax and then wipe off with a clean paper towel.
 
Where's the conflict?
CA is no different from any other finish. You sand the wood, you apply the finish, you let it dry or cure, and then you finish the finish. Where we differ is in the details.

The following explains with words and video those details that work for me, and why I do it that way. If you chose to do it differently, and get the same results, where's the conflict? The end result is what's important, not how you got there.

http://www.woodturner-russ.com/PenPages-FinishingPens-CAglue.html
 
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jbeyer said:
So I'm getting conflicting info from people on CA finish...

I watched Grub32's video and I understand how to do that...

He doesn't sand between coats... do you guys do? what grit?

After he finishes he goes to MM... do you guys start lower than that?

Before you apply the CA... how high do you sand to? 800, 1200, 600?

When I applied the CA I was using thin, a paper towel, and 800 RPM. What I ran into was that the paper towel was heating up really quickly. Does this happen to you? Was I applying to much force? I was putting the CA on the paper towel. It feels to me like if I apply it to the blank then it goes everywhere.

Thanks guys,

Jonathan
Click to expand...

Jonathan,
There are probably as many techniques to a CA finish as there are turners... I don't use the paper towels or thin CA... the thin soaks into the towel and you lose over half to the towel..I use a medium CA and little strips of a foam pad that I cut from the foam sheets that come wrapped around electronics... I've saved it over the years so I have enough to last me the rest of my turning life... I apply the CA at 500 rpm.. the lowest my machines will go.. I don't sand between coats, but will spritz a little accelerator between every 3rd or 4th coat and on the last coat.
I sand the blanks up to about 600 before I start the CA... then after the CA has cured on the blank, I wet sand with the MM through 12000, then plastic polish.
This is my technique and it works for me... it's a trial and error thing to find what works for you...
 
I wish I could remember who posted this once, as I thought it was so true.....


There are 500 ways to do this....499 of them work very well....me, I use the other one.

Mike aka:Moke
 
I've had amazing success with CA and lots of problems. I finally settled on Fangar's method a couple years ago with minor variations but I could never get consistent results. I just learned/re-learned quite a bit this evening that I thought I would share.

I was finishing one of Ankrom's alumilite/burl blanks. I've read quite a bit recently about folks preferring medium CA and suspecting that thin and medium don't mix well so I tried med. CA. start to finish (I usually start with thin & finish with med). I applied probably 8-10 coats followed by MM & plastic polish. I could not get a super reflective finish over the wood yet the alumilite looked fine. I decided to try CA/BLO. It applied well but did no better. I could see variations in the gloss that followed the burls and the reflective "lines" were not straight yet the blank was fully sanded and MM'd. I assumed it might be moisture. One thing I noticed was that I could get a great gloss using the plastic polish but the sheen changed in just a few seconds to dull.

I was about to give up when I decided to lay some thin CA on top. I applied four quick coats followed by a very quick hit with MM & plastic polish. The difference was incredible. I can see faces from the TV reflected in the finish. All of the sheen variations are gone.

The thin & med CA bottles were purchased at the same time from Monte (good stuff) and previously used on several pens with great results. The cap on the bottle of thin does seem to snap on better than the medium.

CONCLUSION: If you have problems, it might just be that the CA has aged or absorbed moisture. I guess I need to keep a spare in the fridge...

Note: I don't believe thin is better than medium as I typically use medium. However, it may be possible that since the thin cures faster it may seal itself off from moisture permeating from the wood better than medium.

The picture doesn't do it justice but it turned out beautiful. Tomorrow it will be a Zen for a friend graduating from law school.
 

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jbeyer said:
This is all great info... I'm gonna have to find my own way (lots of practice I guess ;)

The trouble that I've found is that the CA goes over the bushings and its difficult to get the bushings off without breaking the blank or removing the CA. What do you guys do?

Jonathan
Click to expand...


This is a late reply, but I get the pen off the bushings by using an Exacto knife.
I roll the mandrel under the blade away from the wood, and make a cut in the CA over the bushings. remove it from the mandrel and tap it on the counter. When you get it off, you use the xacto to trim the extra CA off the ends of the blank and assemble the pen.

Works for me.

kirby
 
keapople said:
This is a late reply, but I get the pen off the bushings by using an Exacto knife.
I roll the mandrel under the blade away from the wood, and make a cut in the CA over the bushings. remove it from the mandrel and tap it on the counter. When you get it off, you use the xacto to trim the extra CA off the ends of the blank and assemble the pen.

Works for me.

kirby
Click to expand...


Kirby, I realize WHAT you are saying. But to make sure EVERYONE understands:

DO NOT TURN ON THE LATHE WITH AN EXACTO KNIFE READY TO CUT OFF YOUR BUSHINGS!!!! DO THIS WITH THE LATHE OFF, TURN BY HAND!!
 
If you are worried about the bushings..go buy a chunk of UHMW plastic (can find at Woodcraft and elsewhere) cut into block of about 1"'x1/2"x/12", drill lengthwise with 1/4" bit, ~equal to mandrel diameter. Mount on mandrel and turn into two cones with small diameter in the middle. Repeat and you can finish a two barrel pen. Other option is a 1 1/2"x 1 1/2" x2" or longer block. Tap and thread to screw onto your headstock, turn opposite end to a cone for a drive. Inexpensive and if too gunked up or scared..hit with the skew to freshen up the points.

You can also drill with a 7mm bit and glue in brass tubes. However not much really sticks to the UHMW Plastic. This is not copyrighted nor patented nor probably original. Enjoy and pass along except in the state of Rhode Island....
 

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Additional note. You will have a lip of CA past eh end of the barrel. I cut a square of 150 sandpaper off a roll and using the Dremal sanding disk asd a backer sand the ends down flush...As mention...it works for me and I wear OD Green sock with holes in the heals....
 
ed4copies said:
Kirby, I realize WHAT you are saying. But to make sure EVERYONE understands:

DO NOT TURN ON THE LATHE WITH AN EXACTO KNIFE READY TO CUT OFF YOUR BUSHINGS!!!! DO THIS WITH THE LATHE OFF, TURN BY HAND!!
Click to expand...

correct Ed;
I do this after I polish and buff. Take the mandrel off the lathe and I roll the mandrel on the counter under the exacto blade to get the cut line.

Kirby
 
Mr Vic said:
Additional note. You will have a lip of CA past eh end of the barrel. I cut a square of 150 sandpaper off a roll and using the Dremal sanding disk asd a backer sand the ends down flush...As mention...it works for me and I wear OD Green sock with holes in the heals....
Click to expand...


Buy or make a barrel sander. A couple guys here sell nice ones, which I have. I also use my barrel trimmer to sand. Flip the cutter head around so the flat side is toward the tip. You get nicely squared ends quickly.

Another thing to note is use thin CA on the ends of your blank before sanding (specially wet sanding). That will keep from soaking the wood with something you don't want.
 
jbeyer said:
So I'm getting conflicting info from people on CA finish...

I watched Grub32's video and I understand how to do that...

He doesn't sand between coats... do you guys do? what grit?

After he finishes he goes to MM... do you guys start lower than that?

Before you apply the CA... how high do you sand to? 800, 1200, 600?

When I applied the CA I was using thin, a paper towel, and 800 RPM. What I ran into was that the paper towel was heating up really quickly. Does this happen to you? Was I applying to much force? I was putting the CA on the paper towel. It feels to me like if I apply it to the blank then it goes everywhere.
Jonathan
Click to expand...

There is no ONE way to use a CA glue. Everybody does it different. Some use boiled linseed oil (BLO) and some don't; some put the BLO on the wood first and others use it on top of the CA; some use thin and some use thicker CA glue; some sand to 600 while there are others who sand to 12,000 Micro Mesh; some have a simple technique, while others have techniques that are so complicated that nobody else could ever use it without a map; and every one of them will tell you that their method is the best because their's is the only one that works.

Guess what. THEY ALL WORK, and the end result's are the same. Don't wory about how others do it. Keep looking until you find a way that works for you. Once you have done that, then is the time to make it simpler and hopefully faster.

Read how I do it on my website at:

http://www.woodturner-russ.com/PenPages-FinishingPens-CAglue.html
 
I don't sand between coats of CA unless it gunks or ridges for some reason. Usually this is due to old glue that's gotten too thick, not letting it dry between coats, or temperature below 55 or so. I use thin CA unless I'm dealing with a fairly rough or porous wood. I haven't found that sanding beyond 600 before starting to apply the CA improves the results.

Normally, I apply 3-4 coats of thin CA without any sanding in between, but allowing it to dry fully between coats. Then I sand with 600 JUST until the high spots are even, then skip to 4000 and finish out the MM pads.
 
As Mac said practice and experiment. I was going to give you my recipe but after reading all of the post, what I do is a little bit of all of them. Just find some scrap wood and try everything until you are happy with the result. It gets expensive if you practice on pens.
 
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