conflict resolution ....opinion wanted

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redneckmedic

redneckmedic

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In a gathering of peers to complete a high stressed task, where there is no formal rank structure, what does the following statement communicate to the group.

1) "This is what we are doing, and its not up for discussion.

"New variables... the person making the decision is least experienced in the field, has limited knowledge on the data used to make the decision/statement.

Has demenstated in the past contemptness toward humility.

Next question,*2) How do you suggest the best way to communicate disapproval with a statement like that, both acutely and long term?

Signed,*Sand in the undies
 
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"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment." - Will Rogers

Tell him he ain't no Will Rogers and he needs to listen to those with experience - as there is this is not time for a learning experience.
 
Is this person in a position to fire you?
Is this person liable to blame everybody else when their "leadership" screws everything else?

let them fail unless failure will harm others. If failure is not an option do what is necessary to steer things in the successful direction

PS I hate people like that. I deal with it everyday.
 
is there a good chance the body would be found? :tongue:

(all kidding aside.. there are many stories of new lieutenants
being shot from behind..)
 
It sounds like you are in a "no win" situation. If there is no way to change the situation, is there a way to have a confidential conversation with the decision maker at the next level above the person that has "set in stone" this procedure.

At least, this way, when the mission fails, you are on record as discouraging a bad policy. If your occupation is one where life or death may hang in the balance, YOU MUST HAVE THIS CONVERSATION! And this conversation must be about outcomes, NOT personalities.

Respectfully submitted.
 
You need a clear chain of responsibility ASAP! The statements communicate fear and uncertainty. Make sure to keep good minutes and recordings of meetings. If you have not already, find and read the book, "The Peter Principle" and "The Peter Prescription".

I believe this is related to Emergency "First Responders"?
 
The answer to your first question is that the statement communicates that the person making it has authority over the rest of the people in the room. If that self-perceived authority was not challenged than that person DOES have that authority because everyone else in the room gave it to him when they remained silent.

The answer to question two is to privately (within the group) remind him that he is not in charge, point out the flaws in this persons way of doing whatever it is he mandated and look for a more viable procedures. If you can't itemize why his way won't work, or come up with a more reasonable and logical to do what ever it is you are trying to figure out then maybe he is right. The bottom line is that he will retain his authority over you as long as you allow him to have it.
 
For the first question, try a head butt to the nose.
For the second part, see above answer.

This is just my opinion and I know most won't agree but it has been very good for me in the past, at least in my opinion.
 
One outstanding question is, does that person have the authority (formal or informal) to take command and make that statement? If he/she does, then you can do one of two things.

1. Assuming that nobody will be put in a dangerous situation, then let the exercise continue and discuss possible alternate solutions during the debriefing.

2. If you are very uncomfortable with the direction in that someone could be injured or equipment seriously damaged, then you could pose a question just to clarify the directions. i.e. How do you want us to proceed if this (insert very possible scenario) happens?

It sounds like a statement from a new leader trying to assert their position of authority, somewhat similar to a new second LT taking over a platoon of experienced infantry soldiers. After the exercise, try to find a time to speak with the person alone and assure them that everyone wants the same thing and that is for the group to be successful. That creating an inclusive environment will allow everyone to learn and build a stronger team to help ensure that success.

Good luck.
Jim Smith
 
Much of the above is great advice. Of course if you tend to be an OF similar to me, my response is violent negative shaking of the head while saying "NO, NO, HELL NO! That is just plain stupid. do that and die. I aint gonna do it that way, way too dangerous!" Once my point is made, alternate methods are found. When I first entered the apprenticeship program I was told that we had old electricians and BOLD electricians. We do not have any old Bold electricians. If you are uncomfortable doing a project, do not do it that way! EVER!!!

Charles

PS; Old electrician, not bold!
 
redneckmedic said:
In a gathering of peers to complete a high stressed task, where there is no formal rank structure, what does the following statement communicate to the group.

1) "This is what we are doing, and its not up for discussion.

"New variables... the person making the decision is least experienced in the field, has limited knowledge on the data used to make the decision/statement.

Has demenstated in the past contemptness toward humility.

Next question,*2) How do you suggest the best way to communicate disapproval with a statement like that, both acutely and long term?

Signed,*Sand in the undies
Click to expand...

"Peers" in your judgement, or in rank in the job?
"No FORMAL rank structure"== when you are on a jury, someone is selected, by the jury, to be the foreman. Thus, a FORMAL rank is given.

Sounds like one person on your "team" has assumed leadership. If you disagree and the remainder of the team has remained silent, I would consider appealing to a higher authority----who CHOSE the members of this "operational group"?? Contact him or her to express your concerns. Be prepared with convincing arguments of the dangers associated with the path your "self-appointed leader" is proposing and adopting, without debate.

Remember the old saying, "My way or the highway". If you disagree and the rest are silent, because they DO agree with him, you may find your options limited to the highway. Are you readily re-employable, elsewhere?

Don't tell me---but be sure you have honestly told yourself the answer to that question!!

Ed
 
Some very good replies above, Depending upon how confrontational you feel you could be asking:
"Who died & put you in charge?" &/or "Why is it not open to discussion?"
In any scenario inevitably, "someone" takes charge & has to say OK this is what's happening, otherwise many groups will talk a problem to death & reach no satisfactory 'plan of action'.
Sometimes a natural leader will emerge who has assimilated all the various comments from the group & formulated a "plan" from those comments, Others may still want to discuss things further, but there's a time the discussion has to morph into action.
 
If there is in fact no rank structure and the individual in question is not in a position of authority, (as stated above) I would ask "why is this not open to discussion. There is a wealth of knowledge in this room and I think we should weigh all the options." Maybe ask for a breakdown of how they came to that conclusion.

If the person is in a position of authority, they have the boss's ear, or they know where the bodies are buried (so to speak). Then I would try a different tact, along the lines of the new 2LT leading an Infantry platoon (something which I have a little experience with). As an Infantry Platoon Sergeant and later a 1SG, I often had to pull that young officer aside and apply one of the age old conflict resolution techniques by turning it back to them. I.e. "How do you think it makes all those guys in that room with subject matter expertise fell when you tell them how this is going to go without even asking for their input?" Or Everyone in that room want to succeed at this mission/task and none want to see it fail, maybe we should get their input to ensure all the bases are covered and contingencies are thought through. If nothing else they will feel a sense of participation in the process and be more willing to push the project/mission/task to a successful completion."

If all that fails, Let them fall on their face, but ensure that meeting notes are taken to ensure that mission success or failure falls on the shoulders of the person in question. If the act of completing the mission could injure someone or severely damage company property, discretely go to the next person of authority and express your concerns (this has to be done tactfully so as not to appear as whining).
 
If the result of the meeting is that the person who made that outrageous declaration has prevailed and you are certain his way will fail, then record the proceedings, lay out other more practical approaches, have others involved initial the document and make sure the document "falls" into the right hands at the right moment. If failure then results, you will have your six covered and the unreasonableness of the direction documented.
 
redneckmedic said:
In a gathering of peers to complete a high stressed task, where there is no formal rank structure, what does the following statement communicate to the group.

1) "This is what we are doing, and its not up for discussion.

"New variables... the person making the decision is least experienced in the field, has limited knowledge on the data used to make the decision/statement.

Has demenstated in the past contemptness toward humility.

Next question,*2) How do you suggest the best way to communicate disapproval with a statement like that, both acutely and long term?

Signed,*Sand in the undies
Click to expand...
If it is a meeting of peers and that person has no special standing vis-a-vis the task (does he/she have ownership of the task? it is appropriate to just respond "You do not have the authority to make that decision unilaterally". If the person is the owner of the task, you forgive them for being a little rude and get on about your job.

The second answer depends a great deal on the answer to the first question and to your position relative to the other person. If you report to the same boss, ask the boss to arrange a meeting with the three of you present and discuss it. If you report to different bosses, have your boss get with his/her boss and pass on that he/she needs to learn something about getting peers in other departments to cooperate. When his/her success depends on someone else doing their job, he/she must learn to be nice and ask not tell.

I worked for a large company and if anyone short of the plant general manager walked into a meeting and said that, I would have just gotten up and left. If he/she asked where I was going I would have said "You don't need me here? Send me a memo with what you want me to do and I'll let you know whether or not I'll do it." I would not have been going out the door alone.

In my many years as a manager and high level technical person I learned: 1]Even if there is no choice, it is better to ask someone to do something than tell them to do it. 2]If you're the boss, give credit for success and take blame for failure. 3]Praise in front of the whole world, scold in private. 4]Never, ever ask an employee to lie, cheat or steal for the company or for your tasks and never lie, cheat or steal yourself. Take this to the extreme that every manager I ever had knew he or she could fire me and if they wanted me to lie, cheat or steal that is exactly what they would have to do.
 
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mbroberg said:
The answer to your first question is that the statement communicates that the person making it has authority over the rest of the people in the room. If that self-perceived authority was not challenged than that person DOES have that authority because everyone else in the room gave it to him when they remained silent.

The answer to question two is to privately (within the group) remind him that he is not in charge, point out the flaws in this persons way of doing whatever it is he mandated and look for a more viable procedures. If you can't itemize why his way won't work, or come up with a more reasonable and logical to do what ever it is you are trying to figure out then maybe he is right. The bottom line is that he will retain his authority over you as long as you allow him to have it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely the correct answer. Well put!!

Russ
 
redneckmedic said:
In a gathering of peers to complete a high stressed task, where there is no formal rank structure, what does the following statement communicate to the group.

1) "This is what we are doing, and its not up for discussion.

"New variables... the person making the decision is least experienced in the field, has limited knowledge on the data used to make the decision/statement.

Has demenstated in the past contemptness toward humility.

Next question,*2) How do you suggest the best way to communicate disapproval with a statement like that, both acutely and long term?

Signed,*Sand in the undies
Click to expand...

This is a bit off task, but I'm curious about this statement inserted in your posts:

"purple = sarcasm"

Never heard of that. In all due respect, as it were; what does it mean?:confused:

Russ
 
Variables intentionally left out of the OP...

This is a bi-agency response (EMS) that does not recognize each others rank system, for all disciplinary and practical purposes. The task at hand is patient care which is very dynamic in urgency and treatment.

The person involved has a history in poor decision making, and as demonstrated above becomes inappropriate at minimum when challenged.

Because he has been publically challenged one too many times he has decided to invite the next level in the chain of command into our fire house. BTW the first level is man to man, which was flagrantly ignored. My ranked representive is more irritated about the situation than concerned. This has become more of a baby sitting responsibility than conflict resolution.

From 360 degrees this is very complicated, if professional public safety can't play nice on scene, trust decision making skills, and keep there ego in check, only the patient really suffers.

I also purposely omitted the roles of formal and informal leader, as conflict arises and interchanges begin to escalate, anyone who mediates the situation becomes the informal authority.... and that was how the situation ended.

I have a formal meeting a week from Wed on the conflicts... but have to work side by side the conflict like a white elephant.

The entire situation is very disappointing.
 
This is a bit off task, but I'm curious about this statement inserted in your posts:

"purple = sarcasm"

Never heard of that. In all due respect, as it were; what does it mean?:confused:

Russ

I have no idea what you are talking about

It helps communicate sarcasm in text so folks don't get there feeling hurt.
 
So (and I am assuming here) this is bi-agency involving Firemen and Paramedics? If it envolves patient care, who is ultimately responsible if something goes wrong when both parties are on the ground. If I take the heat no matter who is at fault, then I tell you to pound sand with your opinions and decisions and do what I think is in the best interest of the patient. If the other party is ultimately responsible, but we share the treatment responsiblities, then I try to sway your opinion, make sure the decision is documented and continue to perform my job in accordance with those decisions to the best of my ability. If decisions are made by the ultimate responsibility and I don't follow them and something goes wrong, it could result in something much worse for me in the end.
 
I would request team participation in determining the leader, if he wants to make solo decisions, he can be a team of one. Then you should lead the team in the proper direction as a team.
It sounds like the leadership choosing process may be the exercise, not the requested final product.
 
redneckmedic said:
This is a bit off task, but I'm curious about this statement inserted in your posts:

"purple = sarcasm"

Never heard of that. In all due respect, as it were; what does it mean?:confused:

Russ

I have no idea what you are talking about

It helps communicate sarcasm in text so folks don't get there feeling hurt.
Click to expand...

AAHH-gotcha. Never too old to learn. Thats a new one to me. Maybe a colloquialism, huh. thanks
Russ
 
redneckmedic said:
Variables intentionally left out of the OP...

This is a bi-agency response (EMS) that does not recognize each others rank system, for all disciplinary and practical purposes. The task at hand is patient care which is very dynamic in urgency and treatment.

The person involved has a history in poor decision making, and as demonstrated above becomes inappropriate at minimum when challenged.

Because he has been publically challenged one too many times he has decided to invite the next level in the chain of command into our fire house. BTW the first level is man to man, which was flagrantly ignored. My ranked representive is more irritated about the situation than concerned. This has become more of a baby sitting responsibility than conflict resolution.

From 360 degrees this is very complicated, if professional public safety can't play nice on scene, trust decision making skills, and keep there ego in check, only the patient really suffers.

I also purposely omitted the roles of formal and informal leader, as conflict arises and interchanges begin to escalate, anyone who mediates the situation becomes the informal authority.... and that was how the situation ended.

I have a formal meeting a week from Wed on the conflicts... but have to work side by side the conflict like a white elephant.

The entire situation is very disappointing.
Click to expand...

sounds like a wrong decision on your part could land you in front of either HR or whatever medical review board you might answer to.

I would go up my own chain of command, describe in detail the historical problems and failures. Provide specific cases/patients if possible. From here on out - keep thorough notes on each case/patient and document decisions that were "his" and if you agreed or not with the decision. If you didn't agree with "his" decision - then document the choice of action you recommended.

basically - CYA, because the whole situation could come back to bite you in the "A" down the road when a patient dies because this nitwit made the wrong decision.

redneckmedic said:
This is a bit off task, but I'm curious about this statement inserted in your posts:

"purple = sarcasm"

Never heard of that. In all due respect, as it were; what does it mean?:confused:

Russ

I have no idea what you are talking about

It helps communicate sarcasm in text so folks don't get there feeling hurt.
Click to expand...

it's usually the people that have only one feeling that get hurt the most.

:biggrin:
 
There is a hierarchy in EMS. Paramedic. Is this person a medic, EMT or first responder and where do you fall in this line. As you well know your position is to do no harm. If the outcome will be harm to the patient, you better step in and stop the negligence. Remember all of your certs are on the line. If there is any question in the level of care you have given with this individual make sure you document it thoroughly and cover your agencies ass. If the two agencies can not play well in the sandbox, it's time to get agency leaders together and set some guidelines. Out of curiosity who has jurisdiction in the area in question. If it's your agency, you should be able to tell this individual to pack sand and take over patient care. If not, your agency should not be putting you or anyone else in your agency at risk of a lawsuit. If this person has a reputation of screwing up, it is your responsibility to advise your medical control of your concerns, so you and your agency don't get pulled down. As far as in the moment. To bad if feelings get hurt on scene, sometimes this is the only way to handle some situations. Long winded I know, good luck from a fellow fire captain/paramedic.
 
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