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jttheclockman

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Another computer question. Just bought a new HP computer yesterday and so far love it. It has windows10. What I am noticing is that everyday there are a load of updates that need to get installed. Does everyone just allow these updates to be installed or is this going to load the computer down with useless junk and if so how do you know what to be allowed? Thanks
 
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magpens

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Since I started on Windows 10 (new computer 3+ years ago), I have disallowed every single installation of "whatever".

I am not saying that is the way to go for you, but that is what I have chosen to do. . So far no problems that I KNOW about.

But I hate to have a computer dominating my life so I have chosen to ignore it's begging me to install "whatever".
 

TDahl

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If they are updates from Microsoft then they are most likely patches that should be installed. Many of these can be security patches meant to fix bugs in the operating system that create vulnerabilities in the operating system. HP may also have updates to improve your computers performance. I would be cautious about any third party application updates that you are uncertain about.
 

jrista

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If they are Windows 10 updates, they really shouldn't be happening constantly all of the time. It may be that initially, you are getting updates for an out of date version of Windows that was pre-installed on the computer, but that should settle down.

Windows 10 updates can normally be deferred for some amount of time. With Home editions, about a month. You do that from within the Windows Update control panels. Once deferred, you won't be asked to update again until the deferral date comes along. Then you'll have to update. After that you can defer again. Note that, to defer the maximum time, you have to hit the defer button many times, as it will initially only defer like a day, then a few days, then a week, and you need to defer several more weeks to reach maximum deferral time.

Don't ask me why Microsoft is so paranoid about getting their updates in "immediately" as they are that they make it as painful as humanly possible to defer the maximum time... Its the single most annoying aspect of Windows 10 for sure. At least once you do defer, you can forget about it for a month.

I will say this...as someone who uses windows, macos and linux on a daily basis...windows is still the most pleasant experience overall. People who rave about how great MacOS is, have usually not touched a windows computer in a decade or more, and have no clue. ;P Linux users who rave about Linux are usually power users with command line wizardry skillz. I'm a software engineer, power user, graphic designer, photographer, and I use every system to their limits. I find that Macs are dogs...they simply cannot keep up if you are a fast user, and they have their own annoying (and non-deferrable) variety of update nagging that drives me crazy. Linux is best used at the command line. It has GUIs, but none of them are as pleasant as Windows 10 or MacOS. Windows, in my experience, just runs circles around both when it comes to the performance of a graphical desktop. Windows handles power levels, CPU performance level cycling, etc. significantly better than the other two. I game exclusively on Windows.

So, overall, a fan of Windows. I just despise their update paranoia. ;P
 

jrista

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LOL šŸ¤£

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monophoto

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Microsoft issues updates for components of Windows 10 on a regular basis - about once a week. And there are two major Windows 10 updates each year, one in the spring, and one in the fall. Some of those updates involve features, while some involve security issues. You definitely want to do the security-related updates, but its not always possible to differentiate between the two types.

I routinely check for Windows updates and always install them as soon as they become available. You can even set up your windows installation to automatically check for and install updates at a specified 'off hour' so that the update process is less disruptive.

Likewise, security software (Nortons, McAfee, etc) and almost every other application has periodic updates. Again, a mixture of features and security. Sadly, they are as user friendly as Microsoft - sometimes the application developer will force you to do the update regardless of whether it is convenient, and in other cases (eg, Firefox), the application becomes cranky if you don't do the update.
 

Madman1978

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If they are Windows 10 updates, they really shouldn't be happening constantly all of the time.

-This depends on what build he has in his machine.
 

crokett

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Most likely it is an older build of Windows that needs updates. Who knows how long the computer was sitting on a shelf before you bought it. It should settle itself down after a few rounds of updates. Microsoft has an extremely annoying habit of making the latest updates dependent on previous updates. You can't just go get the latest patches in one update. You have to install some updates before others.
 

zig613

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Wait until you get your update notice that Windows 11 is now available to download. I got the notice a couples of weeks ago. I didn't do the update yet. I will wait a little while until all the bugs are worked out. I believe MS will continue its support of Windows 10 until the fall of 2025.
 

monophoto

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Wait until you get your update notice that Windows 11 is now available to download. I got the notice a couples of weeks ago. I didn't do the update yet. I will wait a little while until all the bugs are worked out. I believe MS will continue its support of Windows 10 until the fall of 2025.
I think waiting before upgrading to Windoze11 makes sense. The reviews I've seen suggest that ithe improvements are basically cosmetic (boxes have rounded rather than having square corners), but otherwise there are no functional changes.
 

jttheclockman

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Wait until you get your update notice that Windows 11 is now available to download. I got the notice a couples of weeks ago. I didn't do the update yet. I will wait a little while until all the bugs are worked out. I believe MS will continue its support of Windows 10 until the fall of 2025.
I could have gotten it installed at the store when I bought it. He told me to wait for the same reasons you just gave. They always have to send patches right after it launches.
 

WIDirt

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If this is a new computer, then it will be trying to catch up on all updates released by microsoft SINCE the OS was copied to the hard drive of the computer at HP. An OS cannot update while the computer is in a box. Security updates are good for anyone who does not watch what they do. Just the way windows is written makes it vulnerable to almost any malware or virus. SO, update if you feel that you need them.

Also, get a better virus scanning software than McAfee. It is total garbage. I'm not a real fan of Norton's, but it is a damm sight better than McAfee. There are better out there than these.

As for Windows 11. I'll wait well over a year for the bugs to get worked out, and to find out exactly what information M$ is going to try to steal this time.
 

leehljp

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I will say this...as someone who uses windows, macos and linux on a daily basis...windows is still the most pleasant experience overall. People who rave about how great MacOS is, have usually not touched a windows computer in a decade or more, and have no clue. ;P Linux users who rave about Linux are usually power users with command line wizardry skillz. I'm a software engineer, power user, graphic designer, photographer, and I use every system to their limits. I find that Macs are dogs...they simply cannot keep up if you are a fast user, and they have their own annoying (and non-deferrable) variety of update nagging that drives me crazy. Linux is best used at the command line. It has GUIs, but none of them are as pleasant as Windows 10 or MacOS. Windows, in my experience, just runs circles around both when it comes to the performance of a graphical desktop. Windows handles power levels, CPU performance level cycling, etc. significantly better than the other two. I game exclusively on Windows.

So, overall, a fan of Windows. I just despise their update paranoia. ;P
I will have to disagree a full 180Ā°! "MacOS is, have usually not touched a windows computer in a decade or more, and have no clue." I have to help two people on their windows computers (10) every single day with something, from pop up fake ransomware to "where did that file go, why is my computer doing this? It used to not do this. I like my old computer better!" I could make a living supporting Windows if I charged - with what the average person behind the desk doesn't know about technology. It is a PIA for those that are not tech savvy. I have used a Mac since '89 in an asian language. The Window units back in the early to late '90s (when Windows finally tarted using unicode) were pure pain to use too. Want to write Japanese and switch to English, use system commander and shut down the Japanese OS and re-start in the English OS and write English and then reverse it, restart to write in Japanese again. ON the Mac, hit a two keys and switch from Japanese to Korean to Hebrew to English. When I was overseas, I spent more time helping people keeping their windows going, especially if their computer was more than a year old.

But, the Mac users, literally had 1/10th the problems of the windows users, and the Mac users were not tech savvy either. I could solve their problems over the phone in 5 or 10 minutes at the most, but for the Window users, I had to go to their house or apartment to get theirs going again.

I am forced to use windows on occasion and know my way around it. I purchased a Lenovo desktop this past summer. It is good but it is not as pain free as using a Mac. And I still use /write multiple languages on occasion. Windows does not compare.
 
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jrista

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I know I ask alot of computer questions. This being a brand new one with a new operating system you will probably see alot more. I wish I was into computers but am lucky I know where the on switch is.šŸ˜ƒ

I just thought it was funny that you only use one word to ask about computer stuff every time! šŸ˜ "Computer???" LOL
 

jrista

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I know absolutely nothing about MacOS, but my son is a programmer... he uses a MAC for almost everything except his gaming.
If you do anything related to apps, sadly, the only option is Mac, because Apple does not have an open ecosystem. Its about as closed off of an ecosystem as possible. XCode is a monstrous nitemare. There is no way to turn off update nags. The rules are CONSTANTLY changing with Macs. But...your stuck with them if you want to write iOS apps. The one redeeming quality of Mac is their terminal...its a good terminal, and I love installing apps with Homebrew. As a command line guy, the *nix type terminals are just better, simpler. I used to be a PowerShell guy, but, its a lot more effort and work than a good old classic Linux like terminal.
 

jrista

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I will have to disagree a full 180Ā°! "MacOS is, have usually not touched a windows computer in a decade or more, and have no clue." I have to help two people on their windows computers (10) every single day with something, from pop up fake ransomware to "where did that file go, why is my computer doing this? It used to not do this. I like my old computer better!" I could make a living supporting Windows if I charged - with what the average person behind the desk doesn't know about technology. It is a PIA for those that are not tech savvy. I have used a Mac since '89 in an asian language. The Window units back in the early to late '90s (when Windows finally tarted using unicode) were pure pain to use too. Want to write Japanese and switch to English, use system commander and shut down the Japanese OS and re-start in the English OS and write English and then reverse it, restart to write in Japanese again. ON the Mac, hit a two keys and switch from Japanese to Korean to Hebrew to English. When I was overseas, I spent more time helping people keeping their windows going, especially if their computer was more than a year old.

But, the Mac users, literally had 1/10th the problems of the windows users, and the Mac users were not tech savvy either. I could solve their problems over the phone in 5 or 10 minutes at the most, but for the Window users, I had to go to their house or apartment to get theirs going again.

I am forced to use windows on occasion and know my way around it. I purchased a Lenovo desktop this past summer. It is good but it is not as pain free as using a Mac. And I still use /write multiple languages on occasion. Windows does not compare.
I've been troubleshooting the same kinds of problems for 30+ years. The majority of the time, 99% of the time, its because for some reason, unsavvy Windows users have this inane quality of installing EVERY SINGLE ridiculous "utility" app they can find, from WHATEVER sources they can find them. EVERY browser extension. EVERY meaningless little app.

Everyone also runs Norton or McAffee, which are in and of themselves some of the WORST malware on the planet, and those two things cause a plethora of problems on their own that users would not have if they just left their systems running Windows Defender.

Further, it seems every single unsavvy Windows user has the terrible tendency to completely disable UAT, leaving them entirely unprotected if a malware-infected piece of software winds up on the system and someone runs the installer (which always happens, a multitude of times.) This means most unsavvy Windows users computers are riddled with malware of every kind...

A sad problem, one I don't know has a real solution. I have, in all my extensive years in tech, never figured out why Windows users have to install 500,000 utilities/addons/gadgets/widgets/useless crapware on every computer they use... If we could solve THAT problem, Windows is a smooth OS with very few INNATE problems...

It would be nice if Microsoft would disallow the ability to completely disable UAT. That, IMO, is the gateway to WinHell....
 

magpens

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@jrista

Never heard of UAT before now.

I think it stands for User Acceptance Testing.

I would not know what that is if you had not mentioned it.

The main thing is that I would not know how to disable it . . . don't understand how other "unsavvy" users would know how !!!!!!!

Maybe . . . in my ignorance . . . I have left my Win10 computer in it's original OK state since I have NOT (knowlingly) disabled UAT !!!!!
 

jttheclockman

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I just thought it was funny that you only use one word to ask about computer stuff every time! šŸ˜ "Computer???" LOL
There is one person here that uses cryptic one words to start a thread and then a dozen or so dots which is annoying too but no one says a word about his threads which are basically the same pens over and over and over again. I like to use ????
 

sorcerertd

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John, that's just how windows goes. Definitely didn't used to be that way, but it is easier now than it was. Installing drivers in Windows NT was a pain for sure. Most of the "mandatory" updates are security patches and bug fixes, but there are also driver and chipset updates to make the internal components all play nice together. My desktop stays on 24/7 and just does whatever updates it wants to overnight. I always let my security software update automatically, too. (For what it's worth, I'm pretty happy with malware-bytes.) Other apps might need to beg me to update them.

For my part, I used to be a power user, beta testing and tweaking things, pushing for performance, etc. I have gotten away from sitting at a computer all the time, though. Just don't care anymore. It's a tool. Would rather be at the lathe or outside. I just upgraded my laptop to Windows 11. It does the same stuff and doesn't feel much different for what I do on it, but it just looks a little different, which isn't really hard to change. I'm surprised your new one didn't come with 11 already installed.
 

leehljp

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There is one person here that uses cryptic one words to start a thread and then a dozen or so dots which is annoying too but no one says a word about his threads which are basically the same pens over and over and over again. I like to use ????
John, don't let anyone or dots annoy you. You are too talented for that!
 
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penicillin

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These "Which OS is best?" discussions can be entertaining. Someday, people may realize that it is their data that matters.
 

jrista

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@jrista

Never heard of UAT before now.

I think it stands for User Acceptance Testing.

I would not know what that is if you had not mentioned it.

The main thing is that I would not know how to disable it . . . don't understand how other "unsavvy" users would know how !!!!!!!

Maybe . . . in my ignorance . . . I have left my Win10 computer in it's original OK state since I have NOT (knowlingly) disabled UAT !!!!!
Ah, sorry...my programmer life is interfering with my Windows life. UAC...User Account Control. This should NEVER be at the lowest level. Ideally, for people who have a real problem with malware...it should actually be jacked up, so that such users are warned MORE often when they may be installing something malicious.

Most users turn it off completely, which is terrible, and is largely what leads to the terrible experiences they end up with because of the kind of junk they install. Malicious actors take total advantage of the naivetƩ of most windows users with regards to this feature, which is why there is so much malicious third party content out there for windows.

It is actually possible to enable it, and also deny the ability of normal users to change it. If I know someone who is particularly bad at downloading crap programs that are the root cause of their problems, I will usually try to get them off of an admin account, if they are on one, create my own admin account, and use windows security group policies to disable their ability to change the setting themselves. Now, it won't necessarily prevent installation of malicious content, but it can definitely warn the user more frequently when they are installing something, and will make them think a bit more about installing stuff. You can also just disable the person's ability to install entirely, if they are a particularly...erm, troublesome user. ;)

Microsoft really needs to do a better job educating users to these features, maybe as part of new computer setup and new account creation, or something, so that people fully understand the risks they are taking if they disable security features built into windows that are intended to save them from WinHell.
 

leehljp

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Ah, sorry...my programmer life is interfering with my Windows life. UAC...User Account Control. This should NEVER be at the lowest level. Ideally, for people who have a real problem with malware...it should actually be jacked up, so that such users are warned MORE often when they may be installing something malicious.

Most users turn it off completely, which is terrible, and is largely what leads to the terrible experiences they end up with because of the kind of junk they install. Malicious actors take total advantage of the naivetƩ of most windows users with regards to this feature, which is why there is so much malicious third party content out there for windows.

It is actually possible to enable it, and also deny the ability of normal users to change it. If I know someone who is particularly bad at downloading crap programs that are the root cause of their problems, I will usually try to get them off of an admin account, if they are on one, create my own admin account, and use windows security group policies to disable their ability to change the setting themselves. Now, it won't necessarily prevent installation of malicious content, but it can definitely warn the user more frequently when they are installing something, and will make them think a bit more about installing stuff. You can also just disable the person's ability to install entirely, if they are a particularly...erm, troublesome user. ;)

Microsoft really needs to do a better job educating users to these features, maybe as part of new computer setup and new account creation, or something, so that people fully understand the risks they are taking if they disable security features built into windows that are intended to save them from WinHell.
Exactly, You are hitting the nail on the head! One problem though, is that education is a much longer training exercise for the average user. While a tech minded (not savvy) user can comprehend the purpose and use of features, the average user (IMO) can only follow a list of A. B. C. D. or 1 2 3 4 instructions because they do not understand the concepts behind the instructions, and are lost when one step is inadvertently skipped.

When I was overseas, one couple on our team had problems like this. Everyone in our organization was required to send in reports monthly on activities and finances. I wrote out an 18 to 20 step list - turn on, press "this" button, wait 5 seconds, press this button . . . etc. The next month, I was back over there. I wrote out the sequence again. Then the man said, that is exactly what you wrote last month, word for word. I asked, why didn't you follow it? Their response: It is too complicated. Fortunately for them, they were extremely productive in their work, and I started doing their reports for them. (Their work made out team look good!)

My wife is very much like this. If it is not a sequential list for every action, they can't comprehend it - Even on a GUI. LOML still argues that a period (.) MUST be followed by a double space! (That was the law in typing class 50-60 years ago.)

At my age, I am beginning to loose some of my former computer skills, and know why - 1. aging, 2. Interface changes - after so many, the brain can only hold so many concept & rule changes before the some of cubby holes of the mind have to be cleared out (which is nearly impossible). Kind of like Windows XP being backward compatible - only complicated everything. And then later versions the same. It gets to a point that so much backward compatibility destroys the uniqueness of a new OS and muddles up functionality. At some point, some things have to be let go - or sandboxed or run through translators (my terminology). Now if only I could do that.
 

sbwertz

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The reason you are getting all the updates, is because when the computer was built, and the operating system was installed it was boxed up and who knows how long it sat on a shelf. When you boot it up for the first time, there will be a bunch of updates that have been made after it was made and before it was sold. Over several days, the machine will install those updates, in a specific order, until it is completely up to date. Since windows usually has an update once a week (on Tuesday) there are a LOT of updates. And there are updates to fix errors in earlier updates, (this is Microsoft, after all!). Have faith....eventually it will get caught up, then usually updates once a week or so. Microsoft tends to rely on its users to be beta testers.....Do you get the idea I'm not fond of Microsoft? But it's the only game in town for most PCs, so we are stuck with it, or switch to Apple. The problem with Macs is that there are not nearly as much software available for the iOS, compared to windows software. Especially in business or technical subjects.
 
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jttheclockman

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The reason you are getting all the updates, is because when the computer was built, and the operating system was installed it was boxed up and who knows how long it sat on a shelf. When you boot it up for the first time, there will be a bunch of updates that have been made after it was made and before it was sold. Over several days, the machine will install those updates, in a specific order, until it is completely up to date. Since windows usually has an update once a week (on Tuesday) there are a LOT of updates. And there are updates to fix errors in earlier updates, (this is Microsoft, after all!). Have faith....eventually it will get caught up, then usually updates once a week or so. Microsoft tends to rely on its users to be beta testers.....Do you get the idea I'm not fond of Microsoft? But it's the only game in town for most PCs, so we are stuck with it, or switch to Apple. The problem with Macs is that there are not nearly as much software available for the iOS, compared to windows software. Especially in business or technical subjects.
It may have caught up. Not any updates. Trying to get the printer to work now. Playing around. Looks like I lost all my photos. I used one of the clickfree devices and evidently this computer is not seeing it or I can not get to load. My hardrive was fried on old computer so can not pull anything off that. I miss the old system I at least knew my way around. It is going to take me awhile and hope I do not screw anything up.
 

randyrls

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My hardrive was fried on old computer so can not pull anything off that. I miss the old system I at least knew my way around. It is going to take me awhile and hope I do not screw anything up.

John; Unless the hard drive itself failed, It is likely that the hard drive has the data files intact. You can get a guru friend to connect the hard drive to a different computer as a just data drive. You can then copy the files off the drive. This assumes you have not encrypted the files or installed UAC. When ever anyone calls and says their computer won't boot, my first question is "Do you have a backup of the computer?"
 

randyrls

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Even in a text message, I doublespace after a period or question mark.
Eric; Sorry for off-topic; The software used on the website only displays one space after a period even if you put in two spaces. Interestingly, the message still has two spaces stored. The two spaces will appear if you edit the message. <LIKE THIS.
 

Mortalis

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Another computer question. Just bought a new HP computer yesterday and so far love it. It has windows10. What I am noticing is that everyday there are a load of updates that need to get installed. Does everyone just allow these updates to be installed or is this going to load the computer down with useless junk and if so how do you know what to be allowed? Thanks
Sharon and few others mentioned the computer sitting on a retailer's shelf and this is one of the reasons you will get a lot of updates to begin with. What will happen is one update will trigger the need for another and then another. One reason MIcrosoft software is this way is due to the shear number of users that need to be satisfied with he product after it is released. The more users you have, the more users are not going to be happy with how something works. Microsoft also has their Tuesday update that will normally happen (if you dont change anything the settings area) happen while you are asleep during the evening. If you leave your computer on like I do 24/7 you may come upon a computer that requires you to relog in. You will most likely find this on a Wednesday due to the Tuesday update needing a restart.

Also to Lee's point, I also was doing computer repair/updates/general help when I was between jobs during a time period when you had to install a modem and/or network card in your computer to either get on the internet or connect multiple computers to one another and what I found about 80% of the time with those that had issues with their Windows systems was caused by operator error. This would generally happen due to some pop-up that would entice the user to upgrade something they knew absolutely nothing about by pressing the "Update Now" button while they were online. Or they would get a message that to make their experience easier and more user friendly just click here......

When my father was still around and in his 70's I had a standing order to Teamview into his machine and run diagnostics and malware and virus scanners because he would not heed my warnings to never click on anything that just popped up on his screen. Without a doubt I would end up spending at least an hour and most times two trying to fix something that he had no idea how it happened. Well, I did!
 

Mortalis

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In my humble opinion, I am not a fan of Apple's closed environment, I would consider myself a few rungs above nominal for tech knowledge when it comes to computers and gadgetry in general. I do however believe that for those that are more tech challenged and use their computerized devices for basic data collection, social platforms and specialized interests such as music or art the Apple environment might be more conducive to their usage patterns.
 

sbwertz

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Having my own computer consulting business since 1984, I can tell you that getting people to back up their data is the hardest job I have....until they lose everything the first time...then they BACKUP!
 

monophoto

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Having my own computer consulting business since 1984, I can tell you that getting people to back up their data is the hardest job I have....until they lose everything the first time...then they BACKUP!
It's call 'the threshold of pain'.

Having a hard-drive crash made me a believer in having a backup.
 

jttheclockman

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Well I thought I was backing up my computer with a device called ClickIt. Come to find out nothing was on there or somehow I deleted it. I know not to just pull out the usb port without shutting the device down so that is not it. But I did try to use it on my old computer and it may have corrupted it and destroyed things. That harddrive will not spin. I had someone look at it and tried to get the info off it but to no avail. So it stands I lost all my photos and all info I had stored on that computer. that is ashame. From now on I am going to use flashdrives to backup and not rely on anything that says it is automatic. I am backing up on computer but as I found out that does no good when the computer dies.
 

monophoto

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Badkup hard drives are relatively inexpensive. I was using a Seagate 1TB auxiliary hard drive that just plugs into a USB port on as the backup device on the computer that failed in October (which hhad a 1TB hard drive). I've transferred it to the new computer which only has 500GB of memory in an SSD. I did make sure to create DVD backup copies of my photographs so that if something were to happen to both my computer and my backup, I still have something.

We often overlook is that a backup drive can also fail - when that happened to me I was just lucky that my computer did not fail at the same time. I lost the backkup, but after replacing the backup drive, I was able to easily recreate it.

Some people resort to cloud storage as a form of backup - either as the primary backup or as backup to the backup (belt and suspenders). Microsoft OneDrive and Google Drive are popular options in the Windows world, and iCloud for Apple folks.
 

penicillin

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First and foremost, I mean no insult or disrespect to anyone here who has lost data due to backup issues. I understand that you may not have had a backup, or perhaps you had backups, but could not recover the data from them. Backups are not easy. Not everyone was taught about backups or why they are important.

There are companies that specialize in data recovery from failed drives. They charge exorbitant fees and yield mixed results ... do not believe all of their hype. Their own customers could put them out of business at any time, but they are not worried about it. All their customers need to do is implement good backup policies and procedures. Those recovery companies stay in business because it is not easy to get it right.

Few people here (other than Sharon) truly understand backups. That is true even for people who have experienced a disaster where they lost all their data. Sure, they buy backup software, but fail to understand how it is used. When the next disaster occurs, they find a new flaw in their backup strategy and lose their data, again. It is a very common scenario.

One aspect of a good backup strategy is testing, so you know that you can recover your data when the disaster actually occurs. Most home computer owners do not have an easy way to test their backup and recovery strategy to know that it will work when they need it. They don't know how to perform a test that does not risk overwriting or losing the one and only copy of their data on the sole drive where that data lives. That's the problem, so they must trust the manufacturer of the backup software to provide good, tested, easy to follow recovery procedures. The recovery procedures go untested by the end user until the moment of truth arrives.

Backups are very important, but it is equally important to know that backups are performed on schedule, that they are safe and accurate, and also how you plan to restore them if there is a failure. See my comment in post #23, which most people seem to have ignored.

View this post, not as general guidelines, but as the warning that it is. In case anyone cares, the general discipline is "disaster recovery" and is closely coupled to "business continuity."
BTDT, GTTS, WTBOI
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,132
Location
NJ, USA.
First and foremost, I mean no insult or disrespect to anyone here who has lost data due to backup issues. I understand that you may not have had a backup, or perhaps you had backups, but could not recover the data from them. Backups are not easy. Not everyone was taught about backups or why they are important.

There are companies that specialize in data recovery from failed drives. They charge exorbitant fees and yield mixed results ... do not believe all of their hype. Their own customers could put them out of business at any time, but they are not worried about it. All their customers need to do is implement good backup policies and procedures. Those recovery companies stay in business because it is not easy to get it right.

Few people here (other than Sharon) truly understand backups. That is true even for people who have experienced a disaster where they lost all their data. Sure, they buy backup software, but fail to understand how it is used. When the next disaster occurs, they find a new flaw in their backup strategy and lose their data, again. It is a very common scenario.

One aspect of a good backup strategy is testing, so you know that you can recover your data when the disaster actually occurs. Most home computer owners do not have an easy way to test their backup and recovery strategy to know that it will work when they need it. They don't know how to perform a test that does not risk overwriting or losing the one and only copy of their data on the sole drive where that data lives. That's the problem, so they must trust the manufacturer of the backup software to provide good, tested, easy to follow recovery procedures. The recovery procedures go untested by the end user until the moment of truth arrives.

Backups are very important, but it is equally important to know that backups are performed on schedule, that they are safe and accurate, and also how you plan to restore them if there is a failure. See my comment in post #23, which most people seem to have ignored.

View this post, not as general guidelines, but as the warning that it is. In case anyone cares, the general discipline is "disaster recovery" and is closely coupled to "business continuity."
BTDT, GTTS, WTBOI
This is all nice and cozy advice and if you are computer smart all makes sense. But for every computer person out there and even right here there are thousands that have no idea. We rely on technology too much. I had what was call Clickfree device. Every so often I would plug into computer and it would download latest data that was not stored prior. I thought it was working fine and probably was because I would get a window that told me the amount of each file stored. But somehow that got corrupted either when I plugged into the old computer hoping it would help restore the problem but it probably fried it. Yes I probably should haved used a flashdrive to backup the backup. But backing up on the computer and the Clickfree thing I thought I was covered. Yes now I am paying the penalty. But when is enough enough?? I am in the not knowing a darn thing about computers group. That is why I come here to ask questions and Sharon has helped me many times here by PM's and that I thank her for.

Now I have to learn a new operating system and yes I have a feel for some things many are different. I have the system backed up on a thumbdrive already done by my guy who looked at old computer. I am sure I will be putting a ton of computer questions here. Disaster yes but it did not kill me. I am still alive to start all over. The world did not come to an end. I still have my SD cards that have many pictures of things I did years ago so that I will over time get stored here. You have not seen the last of my pens made. :) I thank everyone who has answered to this thread and maybe it will help others too. Could be a good one to reference years down the road. take care and be safe.
 
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penicillin

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
1,036
This is all nice and cozy advice and if you are computer smart all makes sense. But for every computer person out there and even right here there are thousands that have no idea. [...]
True. The people who design high technology products do not always understand the knowledge and experience of the people who will be using the products they design. Sometimes they expect an unreasonable level of skill or experience from their users. Easy or hard, you should learn how to maintain and backup your computer if you want to safeguard your data, which includes the family digital photos.

You can say the same thing about cars. If you buy a car, you must learn to have the oil changed (or do it yourself). There are car people who can rebuild an engine blindfolded and operate a manual transmission with skill. There are people who know that you should change the oil periodically and check the tire pressure.

Some people know nothing about cars other than how to drive them. They never change the engine oil and add air only when the tires look flat. When their engine blows up and the mechanic finds nothing but sludge in the bottom, can they say, "If you're car smart, changing the oil makes sense"?

You can say the same thing about woodturning lathes. If you own a lathe, you must learn to operate it safely and maintain it appropriately - how to sharpen and maintain your tools, how to keep the ways clean and rust free, how to change the drive belt when it breaks, etc. If you don't follow good safety procedures and get hurt on the lathe, can you say, "If you're lathe smart, then not inserting your hand between the spinning workpiece and the tool rest makes sense"?

The bottom line is that when you buy and own stuff, they may require certain skills or knowledge to use and maintain them. Computers are no different than cars or woodturning lathes. You learned what was needed to keep your cars and lathe in good working order.

-> What is different about computers that you find it difficult to learn what it takes to own and use one, or are unwilling to invest the same time you invested when you learned how to maintain cars or operate a lathe?
 
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