Coming Soon, VENDOR FORUMS!

[jeff]

I don't know I used to see the classifieds as a place for members to great one of a kind materials. And IAP was the ONLY place you could get them...Now everything is becoming commercialized. Not ALL the small member vendors have web sites....

.

You still can Deals, Trades, Gifts and Wants forum. You have free access to that for selling off those onesy, twosy items and people seem to make full use of them.

DTG&W is for personally owned items. Extra stuff. If someone makes things for sale, that's not the place. Does that hurt the "little guy"? I've heard that argument, but I believe we've pretty much debunked the idea that a $5 classified puts someone out of business.

 

[Smitty37]

I am currently one of the bigger users of classifieds - I am also hardly a "big" vendor.

I view the new forum as reducing - but not eliminating my use of classifieds where I now am often forced to use a classified to make informational announcements that really don't result in sales. The new forum frees me from that.

Also the new forum is not free...the vendors will be paying (to begin) the amount of 5 regular classified's per month. Those who cant bear that fee can just use the classifieds.

Additionally we pay for the catalogs. This is OK and it allows me to keep my business aimed at IAP members - frankly if I wanted to get bigger and do more business through other venues I would be doing that.

One other point, vendors often see questions (or statements) in other forums that we can't respond to - usually regarding "lowest" priced source, finishes available, availablility of spare parts etc.

Smitty

Since you brought up the catalogs... I anticipate any "package" we put together for Vendor Forums would include a catalog. You'll also be able to put a sticky post in your forum which contains your catalog and link to it from the Catalog Forum.

Regarding your statement about not being able to respond to questions.

What we tried to eliminate with the rules changes in 2011 was the "I sell that, it's $xx.xx and here is the link, and oh by the way it's better than so and so's." That was occurring in general discussions. The discussion would be going along and then a vendor would pop in with "oh you should try our so and so product."

One of the things I'd consider in the Vendor Forums is a spot for "where do I buy". I hesitate because that's currently allowed in the DTG&W forum. You can respond to any "wanted" post there with a direct link to your product.

I wasn't complaining Jeff, I was just pointing to that as perhaps another reason for having the vendor forums.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I thought I might put my thoughts in as well:

The advantages of vendor forums seem to be plentiful:
- Vendors will be encouraged to participate more, especially in their own forums, and provide more info and tips that they were rather limited
- moderation tasks will be reduced, as vendors will not be looking for opportunities to peddle wares in the wrong areas
- vendors will not be as 'muzzled' regarding announcements and updates - for example, a vendor who wants to discuss a potential issue or assembly quirk with a pen will not have to buy a separate classified to announce it.
- the classified will now be used for selling items only, not announcements like 'we're going to be away for a week - don't expect shipment immediately' and things like that
- smaller vendor sales in the classifieds will continue, and they won't be overshadowed by mega-classified postings, from the bigger vendors
- vendors are now given choices - the separate forums are not a requirement, they're an option, much like the vendor catalogs!

For the regular member:
- more opportunities for getting information
- streamlined info source - ability to find where to look more quickly
- opportunity to block areas (or members) they don't want to receive updates from in their feeds
- very little change regarding their day-to-day experience
- ability to find all the info in the same location (i.e. IAP), rather than having to go to the vendors websites, facebook, or other location for updates.
- more informative posts from vendors
- more sales-related posts remaining in the proper area.

Financial upside
- more page views for vendors, resulting in more revenue and the ability to target a captive audience at a single location.
- hopefully more Birthday Bash prize donations, resulting from their good will due to the all the increased sales and revenue!
- increased ability for Jeff to provide good Bash prizes for the membership as well, if the forums are well-used.

Cons: we don't like change.

I think the pros outweigh the cons!

 

[PR_Princess]

I thought I might put my thoughts in as well:

The advantages of vendor forums seem to be plentiful:
- Vendors will be encouraged to participate more, especially in their own forums, and provide more info and tips that they were rather limited
- moderation tasks will be reduced, as vendors will not be looking for opportunities to peddle wares in the wrong areas
- vendors will not be as 'muzzled' regarding announcements and updates - for example, a vendor who wants to discuss a potential issue or assembly quirk with a pen will not have to buy a separate classified to announce it.
- the classified will now be used for selling items only, not announcements like 'we're going to be away for a week - don't expect shipment immediately' and things like that
- smaller vendor sales in the classifieds will continue, and they won't be overshadowed by mega-classified postings, from the bigger vendors
- vendors are now given choices - the separate forums are not a requirement, they're an option, much like the vendor catalogs!

For the regular member:
- more opportunities for getting information
- streamlined info source - ability to find where to look more quickly
- opportunity to block areas (or members) they don't want to receive updates from in their feeds
- very little change regarding their day-to-day experience
- ability to find all the info in the same location (i.e. IAP), rather than having to go to the vendors websites, facebook, or other location for updates.
- more informative posts from vendors
- more sales-related posts remaining in the proper area.

Financial upside
- more page views for vendors, resulting in more revenue and the ability to target a captive audience at a single location.
- hopefully more Birthday Bash prize donations, resulting from their good will due to the all the increased sales and revenue!
- increased ability for Jeff to provide good Bash prizes for the membership as well, if the forums are well-used.

Cons: we don't like change.

I think the pros outweigh the cons!

LOL Andrew, one thing I do know is that for the last seven weeks or so, change has definitely been on MY four letter word list! :redface:

But if Jeff wants to give this a try, he will definitely have my support. In the big picture, I think the goal here is to make the IAP a better place - so what is the harm in trying something new?

 

[Smitty37]

I thought I might put my thoughts in as well:

I think the pros outweigh the cons!

LOL Andrew, one thing I do know is that for the last seven weeks or so, change has definitely been on MY four letter word list! :redface:

I think it was on the 4 letter word list for anyone trying to Navigate (?????) your website for a few days too.

 

[edstreet]

Regarding your statement about not being able to respond to questions.

What we tried to eliminate with the rules changes in 2011 was the "I sell that, it's $xx.xx and here is the link, and oh by the way it's better than so and so's." That was occurring in general discussions. The discussion would be going along and then a vendor would pop in with "oh you should try our so and so product."

One of the things I'd consider in the Vendor Forums is a spot for "where do I buy". I hesitate because that's currently allowed in the DTG&W forum. You can respond to any "wanted" post there with a direct link to your product.

This is still going on quite heavy, to prove it just dig up any thread dealing with TBC or laser cut. More often than not these very subjects break out into heated vendor debates. With the new group being added is not going to address these issues and likely increase vendor slant to one direction.

Having said that many forums that I am on has special areas dedicated to higher skilled specific people, i.e. the master craftsman, not limited to just vendors. So the question is why limit this to vendors only? Why not try to encourage and attract skill, knowledge and talent.

I thought I might put my thoughts in as well:

The advantages of vendor forums seem to be plentiful:
- moderation tasks will be reduced, as vendors will not be looking for opportunities to peddle wares in the wrong areas

Perhaps I missed the boat on this one but this is flawed logic regardless of how I approach this statement. Actually the one viable approach where this would indeed be true; that is if more moderator task right now is spent dealing with vendors rather than regular users. Perhaps some facts to back up this claim is in order?

For the regular member:
...
- streamlined info source - ability to find where to look more quickly
...
- very little change regarding their day-to-day experience
- ability to find all the info in the same location (i.e. IAP), rather than having to go to the vendors websites, facebook, or other location for updates.

Double speak no? Exactly only different.

But if Jeff wants to give this a try, he will definitely have my support. In the big picture, I think the goal here is to make the IAP a better place - so what is the harm in trying something new?

From where I sit I see some serious hostility and aggression from the top all the way to the bottom on this topic. I also fail to understand why there is so much anger in all these posts. Change is inevitable, it is a fact of life. I see nothing wrong with trying something new but I am also an advocate of making things business friendly.

 

[alphageek]

Perhaps I missed the boat on this one but this is flawed logic regardless of how I approach this statement. Actually the one viable approach where this would indeed be true; that is if more moderator task right now is spent dealing with vendors rather than regular users. Perhaps some facts to back up this claim is
in order?

Considering that statement came from a moderator, that should be all the "fact" you need. Its not that moderators spend more time specifically on vendors than other users. But we DO spend more time on issues around commerce than other issues. These new forums should allow vendors more freedom without increasing those issues (I hope!).

From where I sit I see some serious hostility and aggression from the top all the way to the bottom on this topic. I also fail to understand why there is so much anger in all these posts. Change is inevitable, it is a fact of life. I see nothing wrong with trying something new but I am also an advocate of making things business friendly.

Things related to sales always seems to be high on the list of hostility. Some want none on the site, some want complete freedom... Others think Jeff is just trying to make a buck (often from those who have no idea the costs behind a site like IAP) by making people pay to sell.

 

[edstreet]

Things related to sales always seems to be high on the list of hostility. Some want none on the site, some want complete freedom... Others think Jeff is just trying to make a buck (often from those who have no idea the costs behind a site like IAP) by making people pay to sell.

There in lies my point. All this bickering, hostility and aggression is not healthy. With both sides being heavy biased they have become blinded to the facts of what really matters is being lost; skill, talent, creativity.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

I've read every post and guy's why don't we just give this a chance to see if it will work, and stop all the negativity, if you have a comment on how to improve it fine but lets stop and see if we can police ourselves, have a forum where we vendors can answer questions, show new merchandise, let members know whats coming, and in general stop all the excuses that we all use to try to sell where we should not be trying to.

 

[jeff]

I've read every post and guy's why don't we just give this a chance to see if it will work, and stop all the negativity, if you have a comment on how to improve it fine but lets stop and see if we can police ourselves, have a forum where we vendors can answer questions, show new merchandise, let members know whats coming, and in general stop all the excuses that we all use to try to sell where we should not be trying to.

Hmmmm, interesting idea! :biggrin:

If it doesn't work we'll adjust or eliminate.

 

[jeff]

...snipped

Having said that many forums that I am on has special areas dedicated to higher skilled specific people, i.e. the master craftsman, not limited to just vendors. So the question is why limit this to vendors only? Why not try to encourage and attract skill, knowledge and talent.

I don't know what we're not doing not to encourage skill, knowledge, and talent. Clue me in.

I have seen the craftsman forums elsewhere, it's an interesting approach. I believe it does fracture the discussions somewhat, however. You might make the same argument about vendor forums, but it's supposed to add to our discussion, not move existing discussions to another area.

I'd be interested in having an in-depth discussion about craftsmen forums, in another thread, please! :biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

Why I came here

I was invited here by several members because I was a vendor and they thought I had products and prices other members would like. I seriously doubt that I'm the only vendor invited here for that reason.

I am also a "general" member, asking questions, answering questions, offering opinions on a number of subjects and joining BS sessions. If I stopped selling here I'd probably continue this activity --- Free. Now I and other vendors pay for that and to be honest, I'm convinced that I provide my fair share of the funding needed for the site to remain free to you.

I have been a strong supporter of the birthday bash auctions, I have contributed prizes for various contests and I maintain a catalog and make frequent use of classifieds. All of those things contribute to keeping this site free to the general membership -- and I'm certainly not the only vendor who does those things.

I also use the Trades and Deals to acquire pens for my collection...If anyone I worked a swap with feels that they got ripped off or even got the short end of the deal they never mentioned it to me. I always strive to give a bit more value than I get. We vendors also offer sales and other perks that only IAP members can take advantage of....

In short, I think the vendor's here pay at least their fair share of the freight

 

[robutacion]

Hey George!!

Since you quoted me, I feel I should explain further: Yes, as a member I feel I have lost the right to "speak freely". And, often I admit I resent that.

However, the rules were thought necessary to control the "infighting" that was occurring and, they have served and continue to serve that purpose.

I have learned to "peacefully co-exist" with the advertising rules and, usually if I want to say something I just pays my five bucks and says my peace---a classified ad---and no one can reply!
(If you had been here when Cav and I bantered often, you would realize how much fun this has taken away from my IAP membership--but "peace" has a price and I accept that).

Is this fair to a vendor? Life isn't fair--and as a purely economic consideration, the members of the IAP have helped Dawn and I establish a thriving little company. Where else can I find a group of 500-2000 willing "listeners" as I talk about "pen-making"?? The IAP provides us with this soap box. And the IAP has overhead to pay. I see absolutely NO reason why the IAP should NOT ask ExoticBlanks to "kick in a few bucks" each month.

As for a "commission" system---sorry George the level of honesty in society is just not there! I have watched several people avoid the advertising fee ($5) by claiming things were "personal items" and should have no cost "member ads." Amazing since those same items were on their commercial websites or ebay or etsy just a couple days earlier.

I often hear advertisers say they did not break even on IAP ads. I submit that the purpose of an ad is to get people to LOOK AT your merchandise. When I run an ad here, I can expect 200 people to look at it, on it's first trip through the front page. About 25% or more will click on one of the links to Exotics. OFTEN, NO ONE BUYS!!!

That ad still has had value--tomorrow, later this week, they will come back when they have the time and are comfortable.

IF you don't think that happens, then your products are not attractive--NOT the fault of the IAP.

FWIW,

Ed

Hi Ed,

I've read with interest all the posts since yesterday but, I have to comeback a little to allow me to respond to your reply.

Our interest on IAP are very different, only because we both sell stuff on IAP doesn't mean that we have the same principles and ways to see things however, we have been able to discuss various issues and accept each other's differences.

There is in fact a few things that you are missing about my presence here, I can accept that and doesn't affect me the slightest, the only point that I'm in total agreeance with you, is in regards to the freedom of speech that is becoming an issue based upon all the commercial interests people are putting on everything they do.

That brings me to the issue of level of honesty in society, as you very correctly pointed out, I was brought up to believe, honesty could grow side by side with modernization and evolution, I don't need to be reminded that, that reality has been totally overwhelmed and suppressed by peoples' greed, and this has nothing to do with the way it has to be, as so many claim but, a lot more to what spoiled people, things it should be, I may have to live with that but, I don't have to agree.

I'm also a very conservative person, I don't like changes, unless absolutely necessary, I'm a strong believer that, if ain't broken, leave it alone...!
With this said, I'm perfectly capable to recognise when "something" needs changing, my hesitation derives more from not being confident/sure if some changes are going to be for the better or for the worse.

This is a total contradiction to the other side of me that is totally fearless and unable to turn my back to a challenge, that has put my neck in deadly situations that most people wouldn't even dream off so, I am the same person that I'm used to make the changes and not be told what needs to be changed so, not being much of a "follower" I'm capable to adapt if I can see, understand, visualise, what the changes on offer are, in fact, if I embrace those changes as something to protect, I do so and most viciously...!

Because our interests on IAP are very different, is only obvious that we may tend to push, in slightly different directions however we can all coexist in almost perfect harmony. This has been one of my big struggles, while I believe I'm coexisting, "others" are accusing me a sneaky/stealth advertising, when in most times, my mind couldn't be further from that, or was ever the intention however, I get the "cane" as I fell into the rulebook interpretation and not what I intended, provoking some very undesirable results and a sour taste in my mouth, that doesn't go away easy...!

Another issue that I need to clarify, and I will be discussing this in more detail when I get to reply to Jeff's post, very soon is the issue of financial contribution to IAP. I have always made sure that I pay my way on IAP, this has been done in many ways but the one, I'm talking about is providing IAP with the funds I can afford. I have made small donations most of which were the result of some add I run in here, even when was free, I have always shared my profits with IAP, they worked on a percentage and I have always put everything in writing so that everyone see that, I don't want things for nothing and that I believe, I should compensate those that allowed the sales to happen, I get very offended when someone accuses me of being using IAP for my own benefit, do you seriously think so...???

As for my possible, non-attractive items, I never accused IAP to be at fault when my adds sell nothing, how could I...??? I'm I going to put a gun to my head because I didn't even cover the cost of the add (rarely but did happen...!), did I stop to comeback the next day and do what I always do and there is, not selling stuff but, "talk to people"...??? no, I did not...!

In fact, I have a terrible "timing" in deciding when to put an add on IAP, after months of no adds, I decided to put a couple in and all of a certain, Jeff decided to introduce the new "vendors forum" I had paid for those adds days before the announcement was made so, one add was done and I decided to go ahead as planned, running the risk to be criticised about it.

So, my question is, will the vendors forum be a benefit to me, not as someone that puts a few adds here and there but as the "normal" IAP member I try to be but, offering my time, experience and services to all members, regardless if they have, are or even will buy anything from me...???

How am I suppose to separate my contribution in between members that bought stuff from me and those that have not, and possibly never will...???

Would you like me to give you 100 examples...???

The truth is, you have become a "big guy" I should also say that, I know, acknowledge and commend the sacrifices and effort that, you and Dawn have been putting into building that business, a very difficult task indeed however, I'm only the "little guy" that wants it that way, I'm not a business, I'm a pensioner with "some" disabilities and a willing to live, I use the wood as my therapy and something that I worked with all of my life and learn to appreciate, I do what I love and I love what I do, I pay my bills and help this small community I live in, the best way I can, I share what I have, and I'm happy to keep a little to help me through, I'm generous and modest, I see honesty as one of the guidelines that I don't want to lose in life, I make mistakes and I like real pizza, what part of this, people can't understand...???

Take care,
Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

My
Seriously...???? do I have to pay a fee to explain/show/assist others with a problem if the product is something that I sell...??? do you guys (you and mods) realise that this is exactly what this new "idea" looks like...???

Please don't pin this on the mods. This one is ALL ME.

George, tell me this. Who benefits when you help someone with a product you sell? Just the member? Or could it be that you AND the member benefit. The member benefits because he's getting answers to his question regarding a product he paid you for. You benefit because you are generating goodwill by helping your customers, and attracting new customers because they like that you are actively helping people who buy your stuff.

Who is the beneficiary of all revenue in that case? You.

Who is providing you with a venue to generate that revenue? IAP.

You seem to be making the case that we are highway robbers because we ask a relatively tiny amount of money for a pretty high value piece of internet real estate which helps you generate goodwill and serve your customers. It seems like a simple equation to me, and I have been shown examples of how it worked very well elsewhere, but I suppose we could be very unique and this is a failed premise here.

What would make you believe we were on the right track, George? Would it be the ability to discuss your products anywhere you wish?

Thanks for your input.

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for replying to my post, I appreciate that you as the IAP owner, take the time to put your face among everyone else's...!

I apologise to your mods for including them in this but, you did tell me some time ago that, you were consulting with your mods in regards to the "advertising" issue, and some planned rules changes, of which I was involved with one particular thread that created some problems so, I made an incorrect assumption, sorry.

Before I go any further, I just wanted to say to you that, I would like to help you to address and resolve an issue that has been the cause of many arguments, accusations, questions and doubts, I'm not saying that you will find the "perfect/magic" solution but at least I understand your interest in implementing something that can address all these issues in a way that will please or be acceptable to all involved.

Your initial announcement was very vague, if failed to explain details of what you had in mind and how you intended to go about it however, and since then, there has been a great deal of additional information released that is starting to make much more sense, at least to me.

After I got yesterday, Ed's post and yours not long after, I was in no condition to reply to any of you however today, the issue has been on my mind all day, as it I was reversing for what I wanted to say in the replies.

There was a certain amount of things that I wanted to say to Ed and certain things that I wanted to say to you but and while writing Eds' reply, I endup bringing up some subjects that I had planned to discuss with you but it didn't turn out that way nevertheless, I would ask you to read that reply and ponder on what I said...!

As for your post, you are very incorrect in some aspects and making it look what it is not so, I need to clarify that with you.

You said, "George, tell me this. Who benefits when you help someone with a product you sell? Just the member? Or could it be that you AND the member benefit. The member benefits because he's getting answers to his question regarding a product he paid you for. You benefit because you are generating goodwill by helping your customers, and attracting new customers because they like that you are actively helping people who buy your stuff. So, where is all this taken place...??? within IAP doors, right...??? so, if the member is satisfied that I as a vendor supported him trough, what is he saying to his mates...??? Hey guys, IAP has some great people, great vendors and great support, better join in...! and about, if the member that never bough anything from me and maybe not even know I'm also a vendor, gets that same service/assistance from me, and I can bring you 100's of cases like this, then what, who really benefits...??? the answer is simple and logic, The IAP forum image, does...!

Who is the beneficiary of all revenue in that case? You.
I can't believe that you said that, you of all people, know that is very untrue and unfair. Lets break it down, shall we...??
So, I paid for my add, when was free, I always donated at least 10% of the wood sales to IAP, to process the sold product, I have support a great number of small local business, from the hardware supplies, the machinery and equipment business, the bandsaw blades guy that tells me that I'm his best customer as a small guy, the local Resin supplier that never sold a 20lt drum of PR, until I became a customer, we certainly can't forget, the thousands of dollars that I spend to support our Cactus Juice men, our own Curtis Seebeck, all the chainsaw supply people, the Power people, then I have those people that manufacture all the other items I use such as all the packaging material for posting the parcels away and finally but no least and I'm sure I forgot to mention lots more places where I spend money that is directly or indirectly involved with what I do to allow me to have the presence I have on IAP and one of the major ones is the Australia Post through the local Post Office, that is one of the few facilities left in this town, in these last 20 months, we lost the fuel/gas station, the news-agency, the only cafe, the only take away shop, all due to lack of clients/profits. The post office was tagged to close years ago, its only my presence as customer that has maintained that place open, the owner has admitted it often so, are you certain, you still want to maintain that, I'm the only one to benefit for any sales I make, seriously...???

Who is providing you with a venue to generate that revenue? IAP."
Absolutely however, I pay for my adds when I want to sell something, I give stuff/blanks away to motivate people to participate in games or whatever you want to call, I provide free advice to anyone that needs it or I can see that I can assist, regardless if they buy from me or not, if they know me or not, simply doesn't matter to me. I teach others to make blanks that they themselves can start selling and they often do. Am I concerned about the fact that, I may lose sales because of that...??? I absolutely, couldn't care less, is it because I'm stupid or because I'm not greedy..???? you tell me...!

I never accused IAP of being highway robbers, that doesn't make any sense to me, when I support 100% the fact that IAP needs money to run and I contribute the best way I can, there are areas on IAP for creating revenue target particular to business, such as catalogues and so on, I'm no business, I have no need for those things however, I can't work out what the vendors forum will do for me, apart from the fact that would be the only place I could talk about and show the stuff I make without being "flagged".

It seems also that will be the only place where I freely can "talk" to/with the members that purchased items from me, all this sounds ridiculous as I ask to myself, what about, someone that I don't know from a bar of soap, asks for some assistance and so that I can help that person, I have to talk and show some of the stuff that I do and therefore use it to demonstrate what the problem is. Where can I do this, and not be at risk to get the "cane" that some of the mods, just love to use...!

I really would like to know where I can achieve that and not have to separate the IAP members into groups and have to drag some of them into some room before I can talk, my goodness me, how much this irritates me...!

I'm not saying that your idea hasn't have some merits, but for the life of me, I just can not understand how, the Vendors Forum would be of any benefit to me, I would prefer to "donate" $50.00 a month to IAP, just to let me be and get off my back with this annoying "advertising" issue, I don't understand it and I may never will so, my offer still maintains...!

I don't know Jeff, I honestly don't, what would you like me to do...???

Best regards
George

 

[edicehouse]

Most of the people here are here trying to find the way to do something with a buck. Wether it is to make one, save one, or stretch one. Truth be told most of us are trying to do all three at once.

I honestly thing some of the venders here are the best contributers on the site, but often have to hold back their knowledge for fear of getting thrown in IAP time out.

I have a suggestion though. Can there be a section in the venders "I am looking for. . ." Members can say they are looking for something, and the venders (that have a paid subscription) can post a link, and maybe "I have what you are looking for"

 

[alphageek]

I don't know Jeff, I honestly don't, what would you like me to do...???

Best regards
George

Holy cow George. What I suggest you do is take a step back and take a couple of deep breaths. I'm sure that Jeff was not trying to put anything ON you, he was just trying to answer your questions and inform anyone else reading the posts.

Look at it this way. This new area is simple. Its a place for a vendors to be able to speak, give information, announcements, etc. They can do this without having to worry about stepping over the line and without having to pay a fee for every post. Separating this out into a different area is not a punishment for the vendors, its a way to give them freedom while giving members a way to close it of if they are part of the group that doesn't like being sold to in the open forums.

Like the rest of the web, IAP evolves. If this doesn't work, it will change.

Dean

 

[edstreet]

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

 

[alphageek]

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

Ed, I don't think that its a white elephant in the room. I see three things here:
1) I doubt that most people reading this thread have any idea what DKIM is
2) I don't see how why that specifically is relevant to this topic.
3) Thats really a function for Jeff to look at. I see that you posted in Site help almost a year ago about SPF & DKIM. Maybe Jeff missed that post, but you should point out your concerns to him, not in this thread. I suggest you PM Jeff.

 

[Smitty37]

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

Ed, I think most people don't have a clue as to what DKIM even means - you should have written it out - much less how it works and what it is for. I didn't until I went and looked it up. At any rate I have to agree with Dean, that while you might well have a valid concern that perhaps should be addressed, this isn't the place to address it.

 

[Smitty37]

I don't know Jeff, I honestly don't, what would you like me to do...???

Best regards
George

Holy cow George. What I suggest you do is take a step back and take a couple of deep breaths. I'm sure that Jeff was not trying to put anything ON you, he was just trying to answer your questions and inform anyone else reading the posts.

Look at it this way. This new area is simple. Its a place for a vendors to be able to speak, give information, announcements, etc. They can do this without having to worry about stepping over the line and without having to pay a fee for every post. Separating this out into a different area is not a punishment for the vendors, its a way to give them freedom while giving members a way to close it of if they are part of the group that doesn't like being sold to in the open forums.

Like the rest of the web, IAP evolves. If this doesn't work, it will change.

Dean

:biggrin:Remind me to never ask George what time it is. I'd probably get a book on the history of and how to build Big Ben.:biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

My Understanding

For the life of me I can't see the cause for concern regarding Vendor Forums for the following reasons:

1. Vendors are free to join or not join depending on how it fits their business model.

2. General members can choose to not look at any and/or all vendor forums if they don't want to see them.

3. All costs associated with the forum come out of the using vendors' pockets - the dues of the general membership are not going to be increased.

4. If it doesn't appear to be working it will be discontinued or all of the vendors will drop it.

5. If there is a small negative impact on the number of classified ads posted so what? The classifieds will be used in a little different way and will (in my opinion) become more relavent to more of the general members.

 

[edstreet]

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

Ed, I think most people don't have a clue as to what DKIM even means - you should have written it out - much less how it works and what it is for. I didn't until I went and looked it up. At any rate I have to agree with Dean, that while you might well have a valid concern that perhaps should be addressed, this isn't the place to address it.

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

Ed, I don't think that its a white elephant in the room. I see three things here:
1) I doubt that most people reading this thread have any idea what DKIM is
2) I don't see how why that specifically is relevant to this topic.
3) Thats really a function for Jeff to look at. I see that you posted in Site help almost a year ago about SPF & DKIM. Maybe Jeff missed that post, but you should point out your concerns to him, not in this thread. I suggest you PM Jeff.

You are both somewhat right, most people do not have the slightest clue what it is or some of the nasty things I have seen from sites that was not using it, that were doing very similar things to the vendor section mind you. The purpose does include this very topic of the vendor area and is very relevant to the topic at hand.

Also highly relevant to vendor forums is the post I made here http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/dayacom-hacked-anonymous-112458/ and I have yet to even touch on PCI Security Standards

Look at it as just another reassurance given to the vendors for their participation, i.e. encouragement for them to come in. After all if the goal is to attract vendors then it's past time to put many things into play.

 

[Smitty37]

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

Ed, I think most people don't have a clue as to what DKIM even means - you should have written it out - much less how it works and what it is for. I didn't until I went and looked it up. At any rate I have to agree with Dean, that while you might well have a valid concern that perhaps should be addressed, this isn't the place to address it.

FYI I was dead serious about the DKIM post I made and as of yet it is still treated as the white elephant in the room. It is also very relevant to this topic and does need to be addressed.

Ed, I don't think that its a white elephant in the room. I see three things here:
1) I doubt that most people reading this thread have any idea what DKIM is
2) I don't see how why that specifically is relevant to this topic.
3) Thats really a function for Jeff to look at. I see that you posted in Site help almost a year ago about SPF & DKIM. Maybe Jeff missed that post, but you should point out your concerns to him, not in this thread. I suggest you PM Jeff.

You are both somewhat right, most people do not have the slightest clue what it is or some of the nasty things I have seen from sites that was not using it, that were doing very similar things to the vendor section mind you. The purpose does include this very topic of the vendor area and is very relevant to the topic at hand.

Also highly relevant to vendor forums is the post I made here http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/dayacom-hacked-anonymous-112458/ and I have yet to even touch on PCI Security Standards

Look at it as just another reassurance given to the vendors for their participation, i.e. encouragement for them to come in. After all if the goal is to attract vendors then it's past time to put many things into play.

Ed, my only point is that this thread in this forum is not a good place to discuss a very technical issue that most followers of the thread will not understand and will not be able to contribute to. Such topics are best done off line among the people who know what they're talking about.

 

[edstreet]

Ed, my only point is that this thread in this forum is not a good place to discuss a very technical issue that most followers of the thread will not understand and will not be able to contribute to. Such topics are best done off line among the people who know what they're talking about.

Not all of it is 'technical' as you put it. Some of it is procedural and other parts administrative. Long story short, policy and procedures. FYI this post is one small part of the policy layout framework. You can call this entire thread more of a foundation core in that model.

Once the new section(s) are in place and if they are implemented correctly then IAP to will have better progress down the path of there it needs to be. If you look at any company that does commerce they will have loads and loads of different things in place, like the ones I mentioned etc. The ones that I did mention was just a few in a good size arena of options to go with.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I think either a separate thread, or private discussion with Jeff, would be a more appropriate place for a discussion of DKIM - and I'll admit that I have absolutely no idea what DKIM is, other than what I gleaned from a google search

I don't think it's applicable to vendor forums, however, and thus it would be best if we tried to stay on-topic here - we've gotten a bit off-course!

 

[Gin N' Tonic]

For the life of me I can't see the cause for concern regarding Vendor Forums for the following reasons:

1. Vendors are free to join or not join depending on how it fits their business model.

2. General members can choose to not look at any and/or all vendor forums if they don't want to see them.

3. All costs associated with the forum come out of the using vendors' pockets - the dues of the general membership are not going to be increased.

4. If it doesn't appear to be working it will be discontinued or all of the vendors will drop it.

5. If there is a small negative impact on the number of classified ads posted so what? The classifieds will be used in a little different way and will (in my opinion) become more relavent to more of the general members.

I have to agree here. I've read this post from beginning to end and I'm wondering if some of the smaller vendors missed that advantage that they could gain. If the larger vendors have their own space that they are paying for I think that the classifieds will open up to the smaller vendors. If you don't want to see the ads then there is a way to turn them off, the forum is very flexible.

I have been a member here under one name or another since the forum was 6 months old and I've seen things change for the better and I've seen them change for the worse but I can tell you from experience that Jeff strives to keep us all happy. Unfortunately that is nearly an impossible task and I think we should open ourselves to a new possibility and see if it is for the better or not. What I can also tell you from experience is that if is does not work then Jeff will end it and look for something better.

I look forward to seeing the outcome and I will, as always, support Jeff 110%.
This forum has been growing and thriving for the last 10 years, Jeff must be doing something right for that to happen. Please folks, lets give it a chance?

 

[jeff]

I think either a separate thread, or private discussion with Jeff, would be a more appropriate place for a discussion of DKIM - and I'll admit that I have absolutely no idea what DKIM is, other than what I gleaned from a google search

I don't think it's applicable to vendor forums, however, and thus it would be best if we tried to stay on-topic here - we've gotten a bit off-course!

Sender Policy Framework and DomainKeys Identified Mail are both tools that senders can use to validate their ownership and legitimate transmission of eMail. The only way that email comes into play at IAP is in notification emails sent from the server if someone has subscribed to email notification for a thread or forum, or has turned on email notification for PMs.

The benefit of both is more global (IAP-wise) in scope, and isn't directly related in any way I can think of to Vendor Forums. I've invited Ed to educate me on why it's relevant to this discussion, and we'll do that by PM.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Wow, what is all the hubub about?

We are adding a feature that allows a vendor, IF THEY CHOOSE, to have a small dedicated area on IAP to pretty much do what they want. They can advertise as much as they want and post things related to their business that is not permitted in other areas of IAP. Their posts will show up in users feeds just like if they were in any of the other forums. For the person that sells regularly, even if they don't consider themselves a vendor, this is just a big added feature and tool at their disposal. No one is going to tell a vendor that he can only post in his/her forum. The same rules will apply to the rest of the forum, it is just that now, a seller has a LOT more flexibility of what they can post and how often they can post. Consider it almost like they have their own little IAP (within reason and guidelines, of course). I fail to see any downside whatsoever.

For the non-selling member, it provides a place, if the seller chooses, for better communication. It also provides a place where you can ask direct questions of the seller for all to see. THE BIG THING IT ALSO DOES...if you have a bee in your bonnet for a specific seller, you can ignore that seller's forum and not constantly be griping to us (the mods and admin) about that seller.

NO SELLER IS GOING TO BE FORCED TO BUY A FORUM!!! If you want one, it is a new benefit to being a part of this group that you will have the opportunity to participate in. If you don't want to participate by getting your own vendor forum, THEN NOTHING WILL CHANGE! Nothing is being taken away, plain and simple.

 

[robutacion]

I don't know Jeff, I honestly don't, what would you like me to do...???

Best regards
George

Holy cow George. What I suggest you do is take a step back and take a couple of deep breaths. I'm sure that Jeff was not trying to put anything ON you, he was just trying to answer your questions and inform anyone else reading the posts.

Look at it this way. This new area is simple. Its a place for a vendors to be able to speak, give information, announcements, etc. They can do this without having to worry about stepping over the line and without having to pay a fee for every post. Separating this out into a different area is not a punishment for the vendors, its a way to give them freedom while giving members a way to close it of if they are part of the group that doesn't like being sold to in the open forums.

Like the rest of the web, IAP evolves. If this doesn't work, it will change.

Dean

:biggrin:Remind me to never ask George what time it is. I'd probably get a book on the history of and how to build Big Ben.:biggrin:

G'day Smithy,

Hahahahah mate, you are so right...!:wink::biggrin:

However you only asked for the time, you would be surprised of what I know about "timing machines" and how Big Ben was constructed...!

Is even possible that, by simply asking for the time, you and many others, would learn something new and endup enjoying reading the history...!:biggrin:

"Maybe", I am too detailed about things, I have been like that all my life and to be quite honest, it took me to places I didn't know existed, I may have also endup with some bruisers that left scars for life, tough...!

Some people like it like that, others not so much, I'm only human mate and I'm very far from being perfect nevertheless, I lived under this skin for so long that, I'm most accustomed to...! :wink::biggrin:

Oh and by the way, could I please use this opportunity to left everyone know that, the last 2 posts I made on this thread, were supposed to endup with these 2 symbols :wink::biggrin:, I forgot them when it counted, my apologies for that...!

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

I don't know Jeff, I honestly don't, what would you like me to do...???

Best regards
George

Holy cow George. What I suggest you do is take a step back and take a couple of deep breaths. I'm sure that Jeff was not trying to put anything ON you, he was just trying to answer your questions and inform anyone else reading the posts.

Look at it this way. This new area is simple. Its a place for a vendors to be able to speak, give information, announcements, etc. They can do this without having to worry about stepping over the line and without having to pay a fee for every post. Separating this out into a different area is not a punishment for the vendors, its a way to give them freedom while giving members a way to close it of if they are part of the group that doesn't like being sold to in the open forums.

Like the rest of the web, IAP evolves. If this doesn't work, it will change.

Dean

Dean,

Sure, I understand what you are saying however, I should point out that, I was asked a series of "direct" questions by Jeff, it would be rude of me not answering to those questions, directly to Jeff.

Everyone else reading the post(s) will make their own judgment, regardless so, I'm OK with that...!

Do any of my questions also apply to others, I believe it does and even if not, is within my right to ask questions and be able to evaluate what is on offer, as it is not compulsory...!

Maybe would be easier if it was, we may never know however, I would be a happy man and a happy IAP member, if I can be me and not be looking over my shoulders, all of the time. Being me, is all my doing and responsibility, not better, not worse, maybe slightly different nevertheless, I have to coexist with others and I strive all the time to find the places where I can belong, is not easy but I try.

None of you can probably comprehend how important would be for me to coexist on IAP without the problems, I have complied to any requests made, to the best of my ability however, it seems that, still some distance away from what Jeff and some of you (mods), intended.

I did not understand what Jeff was offering when he announced it, there has been some interesting explanations to what is suppose to be, and I'm starting to understand "some" of its positives/attributes, call me a slow learner and if that makes you happy, call me stupid, I'm however to have a full understanding to what is all about and what doors are left half closed to introduce other restrictive conditions at later date.

I'm also concern at the fees structure and what it will be in the near future, again call me "drama queen" if you wish but, I have the right to be cautious and concerned about certain type of surprises, right...???

I really would like that Jeff would be a little more "transparent" about the fees structure that he envisages for this new addition to IAP so, it would be great if he could gives us an idea of what the fees are going to be after the 1th January 2014 and what would be the increase rates that he envisage a couple of years down the track.

The thing is, if am getting a "service", I'm most willing to pay my way as always however, I have limits...!

It is of my utmost interest that, IAP improves and adapts, is also of my utmost interest that IAP continues to be a place where I can be and bring many others to enjoy and participate, and not making me feel guilt of making the wrong decision.

I would like also to see IAP as a place where people doesn't have to leave due to unnecessary political and ridiculous arguments however, I welcome the boot up the arse, on the idiots...!

Is this too much to ask...???:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[Smitty37]

I don't know Jeff, I honestly don't, what would you like me to do...???

Best regards
George

Holy cow George. What I suggest you do is take a step back and take a couple of deep breaths. I'm sure that Jeff was not trying to put anything ON you, he was just trying to answer your questions and inform anyone else reading the posts.

Look at it this way. This new area is simple. Its a place for a vendors to be able to speak, give information, announcements, etc. They can do this without having to worry about stepping over the line and without having to pay a fee for every post. Separating this out into a different area is not a punishment for the vendors, its a way to give them freedom while giving members a way to close it of if they are part of the group that doesn't like being sold to in the open forums.

Like the rest of the web, IAP evolves. If this doesn't work, it will change.

Dean

Dean,

Sure, I understand what you are saying however, I should point out that, I was asked a series of "direct" questions by Jeff, it would be rude of me not answering to those questions, directly to Jeff.

Everyone else reading the post(s) will make their own judgment, regardless so, I'm OK with that...!

Do any of my questions also apply to others, I believe it does and even if not, is within my right to ask questions and be able to evaluate what is on offer, as it is not compulsory...!

Maybe would be easier if it was, we may never know however, I would be a happy man and a happy IAP member, if I can be me and not be looking over my shoulders, all of the time. Being me, is all my doing and responsibility, not better, not worse, maybe slightly different nevertheless, I have to coexist with others and I strive all the time to find the places where I can belong, is not easy but I try.

None of you can probably comprehend how important would be for me to coexist on IAP without the problems, I have complied to any requests made, to the best of my ability however, it seems that, still some distance away from what Jeff and some of you (mods), intended.

I did not understand what Jeff was offering when he announced it, there has been some interesting explanations to what is suppose to be, and I'm starting to understand "some" of its positives/attributes, call me a slow learner and if that makes you happy, call me stupid, I'm however to have a full understanding to what is all about and what doors are left half closed to introduce other restrictive conditions at later date.

I'm also concern at the fees structure and what it will be in the near future, again call me "drama queen" if you wish but, I have the right to be cautious and concerned about certain type of surprises, right...???

I really would like that Jeff would be a little more "transparent" about the fees structure that he envisages for this new addition to IAP so, it would be great if he could gives us an idea of what the fees are going to be after the 1th January 2014 and what would be the increase rates that he envisage a couple of years down the track.

The thing is, if am getting a "service", I'm most willing to pay my way as always however, I have limits...!

It is of my utmost interest that, IAP improves and adapts, is also of my utmost interest that IAP continues to be a place where I can be and bring many others to enjoy and participate, and not making me feel guilt of making the wrong decision.

I would like also to see IAP as a place where people doesn't have to leave due to unnecessary political and ridiculous arguments however, I welcome the boot up the arse, on the idiots...!

Is this too much to ask...???:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

George, if I can interject a little thought here. I learned of the Vendor Forum and the initial price. I looked at what was being offered and decided that at the initial price it was worth it for me to give it a try because it will probably reduce my use of classified ads by that much.

If the price goes too high after January 1st, I can always drop it. In the mean time we (vendors and general members) will all get three months to look at it and see how it works.

My thought right now is that it will make some things better (perhaps at a cost) but probably won't make anything worse. But...if I am wrong the idea will fail and we'll be back to what we have now. It seems like trying it is a no-risk situation for both general members and vendors.

 

[LL Woodworks]

My
Seriously...???? do I have to pay a fee to explain/show/assist others with a problem if the product is something that I sell...??? do you guys (you and mods) realise that this is exactly what this new "idea" looks like...???

I'm not saying that your idea hasn't have some merits, but for the life of me, I just can not understand how, the Vendors Forum would be of any benefit to me ...

So don't visit or use the vendor's forum... because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it.

 

[kovalcik]

After reading all the different opinions I thought I would chime in as a general member. I like the idea of the vendor forum. For me the biggest benefit will be seeing other members Q&A with the vendors. Now, vendor problems are mostly discussed via PM and the rest of the audience does not see the resolution of the problem. Sometimes the original poster will add the solution to the thread, but even then the rest of the audience is lacking the detail that led to the solution. I also think since the sellers participating in the vendor forums would be the more frequent classified posters, it will make the other classified posts more visible.

I also wanted to add a small piece of market research for the vendors. Classified ads, Vendor catalogs, and now vendor forums typically do not drive me to your stores. What really causes me to check out your website is if I am following a thread and I see you contibute in a helpful way. That is what makes me click on the link in your signature just to see what you are about. So my suggestion to the vendors is even if you have a vendor forum, keep up with your general posting, and keep that signature link up to date.

 

[robutacion]

My
Seriously...???? do I have to pay a fee to explain/show/assist others with a problem if the product is something that I sell...??? do you guys (you and mods) realise that this is exactly what this new "idea" looks like...???

I'm not saying that your idea hasn't have some merits, but for the life of me, I just can not understand how, the Vendors Forum would be of any benefit to me ...

So don't visit or use the vendor's forum... because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it.

Hi Lynn,

I accept your opinion/thoughts on this issue however, you have absolutely no idea to how much I may have contributed for Jeff to consider this new idea, it goes a lot deeper than you will ever imagine and that is the very reason why, I'm reacting this way, I have my reasons, believe me...!

I really want this to work, I need it to work, is important to everyone that, it works so, I need to ask the questions and I keep an open mind...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

After reading all the different opinions I thought I would chime in as a general member. I like the idea of the vendor forum. For me the biggest benefit will be seeing other members Q&A with the vendors. Now, vendor problems are mostly discussed via PM and the rest of the audience does not see the resolution of the problem. Sometimes the original poster will add the solution to the thread, but even then the rest of the audience is lacking the detail that led to the solution. I also think since the sellers participating in the vendor forums would be the more frequent classified posters, it will make the other classified posts more visible.

I also wanted to add a small piece of market research for the vendors. Classified ads, Vendor catalogs, and now vendor forums typically do not drive me to your stores. What really causes me to check out your website is if I am following a thread and I see you contibute in a helpful way. That is what makes me click on the link in your signature just to see what you are about. So my suggestion to the vendors is even if you have a vendor forum, keep up with your general posting, and keep that signature link up to date.

I agree with you, particularly to the second part of your post, that line of thought was what made me to have my eBay store and website addresses on my signature, I tend to follow the same principle when I'm looking for something however, I was requested to removed all that information from my signature due to conflict of interest with the advertising rules on IAP, and while I did not hesitate in have all that information removed, to keep the peace, I felt that was unnecessary so, the new vendors forum may be able to correct that, something that I would like to see back for the exact reason you pointed out. Thank you...!

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

George, if I can interject a little thought here. I learned of the Vendor Forum and the initial price. I looked at what was being offered and decided that at the initial price it was worth it for me to give it a try because it will probably reduce my use of classified ads by that much.

If the price goes too high after January 1st, I can always drop it. In the mean time we (vendors and general members) will all get three months to look at it and see how it works.

My thought right now is that it will make some things better (perhaps at a cost) but probably won't make anything worse. But...if I am wrong the idea will fail and we'll be back to what we have now. It seems like trying it is a no-risk situation for both general members and vendors.

Hi Smithy,

Sure mate, interject as much as you like, this is a free world...!:wink:

Yes, is very possible that you are correct and that the new vendors forum, turns out to be a success, the more time I have to think about it and read how other people interpret it, does help considerably nevertheless, I have my reserves or should I say, I'm approaching it with some caution so that I don't get too disappointed if it all goes pear shape.

As I mention before, I need something that will work, sooner rather than later, Jeff's decision has been already made so, I hope he is right...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[jeff]

After reading all the different opinions I thought I would chime in as a general member. I like the idea of the vendor forum. For me the biggest benefit will be seeing other members Q&A with the vendors. Now, vendor problems are mostly discussed via PM and the rest of the audience does not see the resolution of the problem. Sometimes the original poster will add the solution to the thread, but even then the rest of the audience is lacking the detail that led to the solution. I also think since the sellers participating in the vendor forums would be the more frequent classified posters, it will make the other classified posts more visible.

I also wanted to add a small piece of market research for the vendors. Classified ads, Vendor catalogs, and now vendor forums typically do not drive me to your stores. What really causes me to check out your website is if I am following a thread and I see you contibute in a helpful way. That is what makes me click on the link in your signature just to see what you are about. So my suggestion to the vendors is even if you have a vendor forum, keep up with your general posting, and keep that signature link up to date.

I agree with you, particularly to the second part of your post, that line of thought was what made me to have my eBay store and website addresses on my signature, I tend to follow the same principle when I'm looking for something however, I was requested to removed all that information from my signature due to conflict of interest with the advertising rules on IAP, and while I did not hesitate in have all that information removed, to keep the peace, I felt that was unnecessary so, the new vendors forum may be able to correct that, something that I would like to see back for the exact reason you pointed out. Thank you...!

Cheers
George

George - I'm not going to air this out any more in this thread, but I have to correct something.

We didn't ask you to remove anything from your signature. We merely told you that when you say you're not selling anything, and there is a link to an ebay store in your signature, that we had to ask you to stop showing product outside the classifieds unless you were clearly making an educational post.

The issue was that you made a post which said something like "I made this stuff today" which isn't allowed if you're also selling the stuff. You said you were not selling, but the links in your sig said otherwise.

I am perfectly fine with you showing us how you make things, but if you're selling, and it's obvious that you are selling by the links in you sig, then we need more than "here is what I made today" This applies across the board.

The only thing we are trying to do is avoid "sneaky marketing". I KNOW YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT, but in order to enforce rules clearly across the board, we have to (WE TRY TO) treat everyone the same. I am sure you agree with that approach.

I love your long posts showing all of the interesting things you do. As long as there is something substantial in your posts beyond "here's what I made today", it'll probably be just fine, in a vendor forum or anywhere else.

Our vendors are one of our most valuable resources. We ALL learn from reading how you do things. I agree that we have muzzled our vendors too much, and the vendor forum idea is my attempt to bring back some of the great conversation from vendors while keeping those who don't want to see it able to avoid it.

My intentions are good, but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so we'll just have to wait and see how this shapes up.

 

[robutacion]

George - I'm not going to air this out any more in this thread, but I have to correct something.

We didn't ask you to remove anything from your signature. We merely told you that when you say you're not selling anything, and there is a link to an ebay store in your signature, that we had to ask you to stop showing product outside the classifieds unless you were clearly making an educational post.

The issue was that you made a post which said something like "I made this stuff today" which isn't allowed if you're also selling the stuff. You said you were not selling, but the links in your sig said otherwise.

I am perfectly fine with you showing us how you make things, but if you're selling, and it's obvious that you are selling by the links in you sig, then we need more than "here is what I made today" This applies across the board.

The only thing we are trying to do is avoid "sneaky marketing". I KNOW YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT, but in order to enforce rules clearly across the board, we have to (WE TRY TO) treat everyone the same. I am sure you agree with that approach.

I love your long posts showing all of the interesting things you do. As long as there is something substantial in your posts beyond "here's what I made today", it'll probably be just fine, in a vendor forum or anywhere else.

Our vendors are one of our most valuable resources. We ALL learn from reading how you do things. I agree that we have muzzled our vendors too much, and the vendor forum idea is my attempt to bring back some of the great conversation from vendors while keeping those who don't want to see it able to avoid it.

My intentions are good, but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so we'll just have to wait and see how this shapes up.

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for your reply...!

Sure, no point in playing the "ping-pong" ball game on this issue however and before I close it and move on, I see that you are not that different than me on this one, we both seem to have kept a sour taste in the back of our throats with this issue and while I have no regrets to what I've done or said, allow me to very quickly (if I could ever do that...!:biggrin tell you the rest of this story.

I normally don't list on my eBay store or offer for sale here on IAP any of my Resifills that I just made, I like to let them rest for a few weeks, the PR alone takes 14 days to fully cure, we have the smell and all other details that are better to let settle for a while.

For whatever the reason, and I believe may have been because I was quite pleased with the results of this first attempt at making Resifills like that, I endup listing them the evening after I finished them. About a week or so later and not have had any sales on them, I decided that was time to show everyone here, what I have done and then I was going to explain/show how I done them but the thread was deleted before I had the chance.

I was very upset with the way your mod dealt and communicated with me with the news of his decision, I didn't particularly liked is tone, as was obvious, he had a problem with me and my way of doing things anyway, it took me awhile to understand why the thread was so much of a problem, and after some discussions with you, you suggested the removing of my info on the signature, to make the thread within rules and so, I obeyed and requested the thread to be reinstated so that I could continue the work I had planned for it.

Now, the problem was that, I did forget that they were listed on my eBay store and I did not intended to make any sort of "classified" out of it nor I offer any for sale. It happens that, in my way to communicate with the forum members, I thought that I was just showing another one of my creations and demonstrated that, cork material can be used for these type of pen blanks construction.

Now the point is, was a honest mistake and not an attempt to make sneaky advertisement, as "some" may believe, I understand that, you understood what happened and that wasn't intentional, everything went back to normal and I provided some more information on that particular thread however, I got the sense that, what makes me be in "hot water" all the time on IAP, had to be resolved, that would also expand/affect many other IAP members that may be in a similar situation so, I have been waiting and waiting for some news of changes, and in the meantime I decided not to show any of my new stuff, as I honestly didn't know where to put it without causing another big issue, as I didn't wanted to make it any worse...!

I expect nothing more than be treated like any other member in these issues, I may cause a few slightly different "situations" for you and your mods to deal with, only because of the way I do things however, my intentions are good/modest...!

I agree with you, when you say that you need to stop "sneaky/stealth advertising" the methods some people use to achieve it is just mesmerizing, to say the least, the bigger problem I have is that, unless you know me and know how I do things, I could very easily be taken by one of those smart arses, I'm not blind, I see it almost everyday so, I couldn't agree more that, you have to come up with a solutions that works for "everyone" and this is where the problem lies, that is almost an impossible task so, we have to concentrate on what the majority of members that require/want/need/wish/would like to sell some stuff on IAP, can do so, in the most "transparent" way possible.

I appreciate your words on my "long posts" not everyone's cup of tea I understand but, I'm glad you see the educative and entertaining aspect of them, thank you...!

I'm also very pleased that you have the decency to publicly admit that "we have muzzled our vendors too much" that gives me a pleasant "vibe" that, you do care for the need of your forum members, that only increases the respect I have for you, thank you.

I also know that, you have a good right hand man, Curtis Seebeck, to help you out with these major issues so, my appreciation to him, also...!:wink:

And to wrap this out, is only one more question that I have, what do "vendor candidates" have to do to subscribe/register to the new Vendors Forum...???

Thank you,:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[BangleGuy]

I thought I might put my thoughts in as well:

The advantages of vendor forums seem to be plentiful:
- Vendors will be encouraged to participate more, especially in their own forums, and provide more info and tips that they were rather limited

I really like this idea for my business as most of what I sell is new hardware and methods for the small-item woodturner. Hopefully non-penturning forums will be available

Thanks IAP for hosting a great place for turners!

 

[jeff]

Implementation of Vendor Forums will be delayed by a day (to Oct 2).

Circumstances beyond my control have distracted me from completing the final setup and tweaking.

My apologies.