Classifieds Overhaul

[maxwell_smart007]

There were some good ideas, so i thought it prudent to summarize some strategies for making better use of the new classifieds:

In cases of less profit margin, i think someone could effectively do one of three things to make things profitable enough to afford five dollars to advertise.

1. pay five dollars to advertise, qed - unless you're selling a blank or two at a time, it shouldn't be that big a percentage.
2. charge a few dozen cents extra per box of blanks, and only have to eat a buck or two in profit as the cost of advertising
3. group together and post more items per ad, reducing the cost per item to a paltry percentage...

Ten dollars has been tossed around a lot as the number. remember, the regular classifieds are only five bucks, and there are free options as well.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Also, just to be clear, the new rules are not solely based upon the complaints we have received. They are also aimed at reducing the overall commercialization feel that has come over IAP and get IAP back to its core values of advancing the art of penturning rather than folks wallets.

 

[DozerMite]

Also, just to be clear, the new rules are not solely based upon the complaints we have received. They are also aimed at reducing the overall commercialization feel that has come over IAP and get IAP back to its core values of advancing the art of penturning rather than folks wallets.

Holy crap!! This is a penturning site? No wonder I couldn't find the gardening section.:wink:

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

I haven't been very active here ever since I bought out another penturners shop full of almost 400 kits and 550 blanks, mostly because i used this place as a marketplace as much as an educational tool after my first year or so...

but I'll weigh in anyway :biggrin: :wink:

I hope this works out well for IAP. I was a Mod on another site for a long time that had over 30,000 members and the thing that hurt it most was that same thing that hurts virtually any enterprise;

too much government.



It almost appears that this is going to be more work for the Mods in governing the new layout, but again, I hope I am wrong. Seems it would have been easier to just tell the whiners to get over it or find a new home. I won't become one of them.

I love that Jeff and the Mods have put a LOT of thought into this, and welcomed feedback. I'm sure that V2.0 of this system will get adjustments on the fly that will smooth things out.

The only worries I'd like to see avoided?

I LIKE being able to see buyers communicate often with vendors. Restricting the posts of a vendor may inhibit that flow. Doing everything by PM will be high-maintenance on the vendors since they'll have to answer questions by PM often as opposed to in a thread once.

I also LOVED that vendors were able to freely post new items often.


Apparently I am in the minority.:frown:

Anyway, good luck to Jeff, Curtis and all the other Mods! It seems you've done your homework and I hope it pays off - monetarily for IAP, and in freeing up your own personal time.

 

[alphageek]

I haven't been very active here ever since I bought out another penturners shop full of almost 400 kits and 550 blanks, mostly because i used this place as a marketplace as much as an educational tool after my first year or so...

but I'll weigh in anyway :biggrin: :wink:

I hope this works out well for IAP. I was a Mod on another site for a long time that had over 30,000 members and the thing that hurt it most was that same thing that hurts virtually any enterprise;

too much government.



It almost appears that this is going to be more work for the Mods in governing the new layout, but again, I hope I am wrong. Seems it would have been easier to just tell the whiners to get over it or find a new home. I won't become one of them.

I love that Jeff and the Mods have put a LOT of thought into this, and welcomed feedback. I'm sure that V2.0 of this system will get adjustments on the fly that will smooth things out.

The only worries I'd like to see avoided?

I LIKE being able to see buyers communicate often with vendors. Restricting the posts of a vendor may inhibit that flow. Doing everything by PM will be high-maintenance on the vendors since they'll have to answer questions by PM often as opposed to in a thread once.

I also LOVED that vendors were able to freely post new items often.


Apparently I am in the minority.:frown:

Anyway, good luck to Jeff, Curtis and all the other Mods! It seems you've done your homework and I hope it pays off - monetarily for IAP, and in freeing up your own personal time.

Just 3 points -
-We KNOW it will be less work (long term) for the mods.
-There can still be non-pm communication (in the right places, and conditions)
-The work also included the managers, this isn't all just about Jeff and the mods.

 

[Lenny]

Reading over this thread, off and on over the last couple days, (and No, I didn't read it all), has made one thing clear to me .... the moderators have to deal with a lot of crap in the background that we never hear about. :frown:

I just want to take this time to thank them all for their service! This still is the best, friendliest and most helpful forum on the net and I think it's because of the work you guys do behind the scenes that keeps it that way!


So far I haven't sold anything here .... (but I have made up for it by being a buyer :biggrin So the only concern I have is how items for sale will be "marked" off as they are sold ... and it sounds like that issue has been resolved.

 

[Rangertrek]

Well, my eyes are officially crossed and red from reading almost all the posts.

I can't begin to thank Jeff and the mods for all the time & effort they pour into IAP on a daily basis. :biggrin::biggrin:

Just thought I would add my very humble two cents worth. I have been a member for a little over two years now, and this is still mostly a hobby for me. I have to say that virtually everything I have learned about making pens came from this site. I am a self-taught turner and got tips from IAP and linked youtube posts etc. So without IAP, I would have advanced at a much slower rate, that education has a lot of value to me.

I belong to a couple unrelated forums which have both basic and premium memberships. I am a basic on one and a premium on another. I find the value of that forum worth a small yearly member fee.

On that note, I would be willing to pay for a premium membership if IAP decided to go that route. I would also still make an annual donation.

As mentioned above a few times, this is Jeff's baby and he can do with it what he wants. I don't have any business getting into his business. If he makes a buck, great. I just want the wonderful world of IAP to continue.

I don't sell that much on the site; but, I have bought quite a bit from fellow turners. I had rather buy from individuals when available. I hope IAP can find a way to let the vendors make special offers or pre-pay group buys. I have bought many kits, bits, etc. this way. The vendor sub-forum may be a great place for this. I would also be in favor of paying premium membership to access vendor sales info. That way, if you don't want to buy and sell, the basic membership would work quite well for all the other general information.

I placed orders with five IAP members in just the last few weeks totaling hundreds of $$. I feel I benefited from the experience and hope they made a few $$ also. Based on what the volume of sales is purported to be, the $5 and $10 fees will be inconsequential to most of the vendors.

Whatever Jeff and the mods decide to do, I am here to stay. :biggrin: I will continue to participate in anyway that I can. All growing experiences end up with a few aches and pains along the way; but, in the end everything turns out for the best. The same will happen for IAP. Those that just can't cope with change may leave and again IAP will be better off overall.

 

[jttheclockman]

JUST WHEN YOUN THINK IT IS SAFE TO COME BACK.

I stop by the site and happen to see a thread that is 39 pages long. I look to see what has caused the uproar and I see it happens to be the very thing that has caused me to leave this site.

ADVERTISING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I lost all interest in this site because every other post there is advertising of some sort. I look at the Show off your pen site and all I see is the very first words, I got this blank from Exotics, I got this kit from Smitty. and now there are other casters and there blanks are mentioned. Who gives a damn where you got the kit or the blank??? If you want to know use the PM system and ask the person. The thread is show off your pen, not sell blanks or kits for others. If you don't think people are plants when it comes to this then I have a bridge to sell you. You get a free blank from a dealer you don't need to shout it to the world.

Go to the penturning forum and how many, how many, how many times is the question who sells kits is asked??? Or who has the best kits?? Very subjective and again free advertising.

I know this has become a beginners forum and these questions are on their minds but refer them to the library or the search feature.

I applaud Jeff for trying to clean this up because these people are using his site to sell their wares on his dime. It is about time people start to pay for the right to sell these things. Yes both buyer and seller do make out but that is the case in any selling transaction or else they would not do it. Look at ebay and the fees they are charging.

This site was a whole lot different when all we talked about was pen turning and improving the hobby. Learning new techniques. I applaud those that have shown some new innovative ideas here. I know the reasons alot more are not shown but so be it.

Jeff is kind enough to allow a classified forum. He could just as well shut them all down. He has reached out to those who do sell and have asked both to contribute, abide by the rules, and to help him tweak the idea. Is that so hard to do children???

Had to write to let steam out.

 

[Smitty37]

Whoa There

I don't know about exotics but I want everyone to know this...Smitty has NEVER EVER asked anyone to mention where they got their kits if they got them from me, nor do I intend to. So if customers bring my name up they are doing it because they want to.

 

[edman2]

Well, John T, I disagree with you even though you have the right to believe like you do. I like seeing information about where products are available. I have referenced those in posts I have made and will continue to do so. No vendor has EVER asked me to do that and if they did I would no longer reference that vendor.

So the Mods have to deal with honest differences of opinion. They have done so with some new rules. There are also some things that bother me on this site as well. I just ignore them (and the people) and continue to enjoy the forum.

I wish you well and hope that life is great for you. Life is too short (and too long) to participate in things that cause great strife in your life. My best to you.

JUST WHEN YOUN THINK IT IS SAFE TO COME BACK.

I stop by the site and happen to see a thread that is 39 pages long. I look to see what has caused the uproar and I see it happens to be the very thing that has caused me to leave this site.

ADVERTISING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I lost all interest in this site because every other post there is advertising of some sort. I look at the Show off your pen site and all I see is the very first words, I got this blank from Exotics, I got this kit from Smitty. and now there are other casters and there blanks are mentioned. Who gives a damn where you got the kit or the blank??? If you want to know use the PM system and ask the person. The thread is show off your pen, not sell blanks or kits for others. If you don't think people are plants when it comes to this then I have a bridge to sell you. You get a free blank from a dealer you don't need to shout it to the world.

Go to the penturning forum and how many, how many, how many times is the question who sells kits is asked??? Or who has the best kits?? Very subjective and again free advertising.

I know this has become a beginners forum and these questions are on their minds but refer them to the library or the search feature.

I applaud Jeff for trying to clean this up because these people are using his site to sell their wares on his dime. It is about time people start to pay for the right to sell these things. Yes both buyer and seller do make out but that is the case in any selling transaction or else they would not do it. Look at ebay and the fees they are charging.

This site was a whole lot different when all we talked about was pen turning and improving the hobby. Learning new techniques. I applaud those that have shown some new innovative ideas here. I know the reasons alot more are not shown but so be it.

Jeff is kind enough to allow a classified forum. He could just as well shut them all down. He has reached out to those who do sell and have asked both to contribute, abide by the rules, and to help him tweak the idea. Is that so hard to do children???

Had to write to let steam out.

 

[BigShed]

Have to agree with you John, this forum has become very heavy on the selling side.

As an example, when I clicked on New Posts this morning, a total of 55 posts came up, of which 18 were either Individual Classifieds or Business Classifieds, ie 1/3 of the New Posts were about selling pen stuff of one form or another.

I haven't even tried to determine how many of the other posts were in your "I got this xxxx from......" or "Who sells the best kits......" category.

I don't know whether charging for advertising will change this ratio, but I guess we are about to find out.

 

[Andrew_K99]

At the end of the day the IAP members will be paying the bill, allbeit a small amount. Hopefully the vendors stick around and don't find another place or method to do their business.

AK

 

[ed4copies]

That is another horse that has been beaten to death, Smitty. We have been accused of this often---I learned to ignore it as have a couple of our customers who still do mention us.

When people post a pen, they are PROUD of their work. So, the SHOW OFF their PEN!! If there is no mention of where the material came from, someone will ask, in the first five comments. So, it really doesn't matter.

Some People LOOKING at SOYP are planning to imitate that pen. Some of those who "protesteth" are the ones using new ideas to "update their art and craft show" offerings.

Hypocrisy runs rampant. And we won't change that.

Now, there are new rules to try to tone down the complaining. Hopefully that will work.

Only one thing is CERTAIN: The IAP WILL gain a few dollars revenue to help improve the site. That alone is worth the "price of admission".

Exotics will be paying freely and often. And we will continue to thank Jeff and the mods for "putting up" with us.

I truly expect no fewer complaints. We'll see.

 

[alphageek]

I truly expect no fewer complaints. We'll see.

Crud... I knew there was a rule we forgot to have Jeff add... the "no complaining rule".

 

[arioux]

At the end of the day the IAP members will be paying the bill, allbeit a small amount. Hopefully the vendors stick around and don't find another place or method to do their business.

AK

IAP members don't pay nothing, the site is free.

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmmm

I see few of the frequent users of classified ads protesting the introduction of paying the freight. I use them a lot but will need to plan a little different but I'll learn.

 

[bruce119]

WOW my eyes are blurry I just skimmed over 38 pages and 373 post. I have one sale I was going to do soon by the end of the week then off to vacation for 2 weeks. I think I saw the new rules take effect the first of October.

I will wait for the dust to settle. It seems for me the reg. classifieds would work if we can X out what is sold. Seems the problem with that is the buyer wouldn't be able to make a public claim with a time line. I guess that is solved in the premium classifieds I have always had a just cover my cost philosophy wasn't out to make a lot of money.

I am on board we will adapt.

.

 

[Smitty37]

Maybe

At the end of the day the IAP members will be paying the bill, allbeit a small amount. Hopefully the vendors stick around and don't find another place or method to do their business.

AK

Possibly but I know I am not rushing to raise my prices to cover that cost. In the last week I've sold around 1000 kits - I used more than one ad but could have gotten by with one....my cost would have been a penny per kit. I can handle that.

I see a lot of sales for blanks offering 50 or so blanks that sell out in a day or two. I doubt that raising the price by 20 cents a blank will change that. For those who sell one or two items there is "steals and deals".

 

[witz1976]

Notice a theme??

A handful of people complain about advertising.
A handful of people complain about the mods.

Maybe we are approaching this wrong---get rid of the "handful of people"!!

Or........... the bad apples!

A-men to both. If there are only a select few who are whining and complaining, then perhaps it's best to evaluate who these people and what THEY contribute to the group as a whole. Perhaps those bad apples are doing nothing more than stirring the proverbial pot...kinda like what I am up to doing now

 

[Haynie]

I truly expect no fewer complaints.

To expect other wise would be to ignore human nature.

 

[Smitty37]

Maybe not what it seems

Have to agree with you John, this forum has become very heavy on the selling side.

As an example, when I clicked on New Posts this morning, a total of 55 posts came up, of which 18 were either Individual Classifieds or Business Classifieds, ie 1/3 of the New Posts were about selling pen stuff of one form or another.

I haven't even tried to determine how many of the other posts were in your "I got this xxxx from......" or "Who sells the best kits......" category.

I don't know whether charging for advertising will change this ratio, but I guess we are about to find out.

Some of that might be more apparent than real....I frequently need to update classifieds and due to the current system, I often have to make a post rather than edit. That is an extra post not made because there is more selling but because I can only edit for 48 hours.

Where I used to be able to edit anytime without bumpint the ad, now If I go in every 48 hours to put in an update the moderators rightly get upset because of the rule about "bumping". So vendors are sort of between a rock and a hard place in some ways that make it appear like there is more selling going on then there really is.

 

[ed4copies]

You might also consider that, in light of the rules changing, smaller vendors would be smart to place ads from now until Oct 1 to reduce their inventories.

Thus, ad traffic will likely be higher for the next 18 days.

 

[Texatdurango]

I truly expect no fewer complaints. We'll see.

Crud... I knew there was a rule we forgot to have Jeff add... the "no complaining rule".

Now that's funny and by golly I think you're right, we forgot that sign and we ought to plant it on the front "cyber lawn" right next to this one.....

What's starting to be comical about this thread is the line being drawn down the middle of the page. On one side you have the penmakers blaming all our woes on the vendors and their advertising tactics, on the other side you have the vendors blaming the same woes on the whiny penmakers. Whose right and whose wrong, probably a little of both so it's a draw!

Personally I think all the good has been gleened from this thread and now people are just further distancing themselves from each other and the snyde little pot shots are starting so I for one am outta this mess because I promised to be good from now on!:biggrin:

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Reading over this thread, off and on over the last couple days, (and No, I didn't read it all), has made one thing clear to me .... the moderators have to deal with a lot of crap in the background that we never hear about. :frown:

If I knew how to make a screenshot of my inbox, you'd be surprised by the number of things in there some days...Mind you, most days aren't bad at all - but when things heat up, it's interesting!

I've had to delete my inbox quite often...and it holds a lot of emails!

 

[BigShed]

Smitty, my purpose in saying what I did there was not to complain. It is a free world (well sort of) and if people want to push their wares on this forum then obviously they are free to do so, within the rules that the Admintrator sets from time to time.:biggrin:

I was merely stating that the amount of selling on this forum has been increasing over time and, IMHO, it detracts from my experience. It may not affect others the same way.

I visit this pen forum mainly to see what other pen makers are doing and to learn from their expertise, and hopefully put something back every now and again.

The point has been made by several people that there is an increasing emphasis on pushing merchandise as illustrated by my 1/3 selling posts example. Some days this proportion is higher.

Yes Smitty, you are right, some of these are merely "bumps", those bumps though still show up in the New Posts.

I am a member of several other forums and none come even close to the amount of selling by members that occurs on this forum.

I have often thought it would be nice to have a facility to switch off some forums here from appearing in New Posts.

Have to agree with you John, this forum has become very heavy on the selling side.

As an example, when I clicked on New Posts this morning, a total of 55 posts came up, of which 18 were either Individual Classifieds or Business Classifieds, ie 1/3 of the New Posts were about selling pen stuff of one form or another.

I haven't even tried to determine how many of the other posts were in your "I got this xxxx from......" or "Who sells the best kits......" category.

I don't know whether charging for advertising will change this ratio, but I guess we are about to find out.

Some of that might be more apparent than real....I frequently need to update classifieds and due to the current system, I often have to make a post rather than edit. That is an extra post not made because there is more selling but because I can only edit for 48 hours.

Where I used to be able to edit anytime without bumpint the ad, now If I go in every 48 hours to put in an update the moderators rightly get upset because of the rule about "bumping". So vendors are sort of between a rock and a hard place in some ways that make it appear like there is more selling going on then there really is.

 

[ed4copies]

I have often thought it would be nice to have a facility to switch off some forums here from appearing in New Posts.

This, too can be done. Although I will let someone else tell you how, since I have never tried this one. But I know you CAN turn off a forum, from YOUR view.

 

[PR_Princess]

Fred, Go to the top of your screen. User CP. Then Edit Options/Miscellaneous Options. Hi light the forums that you do not want to appear in new posts. Save.

That should do it.

 

[Dave Turner]

I've been a member for a little over a year now, and I still feel like a newcomer compared to many here. This is a great forum. The education and entertainment I've received this past year is worth my donations several times over. Not having the long-term perspective, I guess I haven't really noticed all that much advertising outside the classifieds (I don't consider the provision of material sources to be advertising, just a public service). The classified forums are extremely valuable to me and are often the first place I visit. They allow me to discover new materials and sources that I never would find otherwise. I agree that things should be a little more organized in these forums and support the changes Jeff is initiating. I just hope the smaller sellers are able to accommodate these changes and continue to allow me to have fun spending money.

Dave

 

[alphageek]

I have often thought it would be nice to have a facility to switch off some forums here from appearing in New Posts.

Piece of cake:
- Go to User CP in the blue bar
- Choose Edit Options from the left
- Scroll down to the last section
- Choose the forums you want to exclude

Theres the happy experience you want. You can still go into every forum, it will just change the New Posts button for you.

 

[Smitty37]

Right now

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

 

[jttheclockman]

Well, John T, I disagree with you even though you have the right to believe like you do. I like seeing information about where products are available. I have referenced those in posts I have made and will continue to do so. No vendor has EVER asked me to do that and if they did I would no longer reference that vendor.

So the Mods have to deal with honest differences of opinion. They have done so with some new rules. There are also some things that bother me on this site as well. I just ignore them (and the people) and continue to enjoy the forum.

I wish you well and hope that life is great for you. Life is too short (and too long) to participate in things that cause great strife in your life. My best to you.

[/quote]


Freddie

Thank you for the well wishes. Your statement about LIFE is so true.

I just wanted to voice my opinion which I think I have earned a right to do. As far as people drawing lines in the sand or not is not what this topic is about. If anyone of the older members here think that this has not become a buy and sell site then there is no convincing you. We all know how much pen making has taken off and how it has become more and more commercialized just by looking at all the ads and how certain calalogs have gotten thicker and thicker with more and more kits, blanks and other items just for the pen making world.

Now do not get me wrong I do not care what you sell or to who but there has to be limits as to where it is advertised. I am not the only one who thinks this way. There are others that just do not want to voice their opinions because of ridicule. But I never shyed away from things like that. Now if you want to group me in the bad apple bunch because of my opinion then so be it. But it does not change my opinion.

Good luck to all.

I have far more pressing issues in my life than to defend my opinion on such a no brainer issue.

 

[ed4copies]

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

 

[Smitty37]

Maybe just me

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

Well maybe it's just because I read faster than most (and type slower) but I figure when I click the new posts it takes me 10 maybe 15 seconds to scan the list and see if there are any I might want to read. I often wait longer to get there than it takes me to check. I don't even look at what category they're in. I just check the titles and the poster.

 

[robutacion]

George

The new rules begin Oct 1.

Did you read the Product Reference Rules?

I think it clearly addresses your questions, but I am always interested in specific new words that make things clearer. Maybe the reason it's not crystal clear is that I am not good at explaining what I think is common sense. I realize what is common sense to me may not be to anyone else! :biggrin:

Talk all you want about wood. Educate us, help us use it, share your knowledge. Just don't post links to your IAP sales or off-site product catalogs, prices, or blatantly shout that you sell what you're discussing.

Does that clear it up at all?

I hear you Jeff, I hear you...!:wink:

I'm not sure anymore if I read the "Product Reference Rules" but, I shall go back and have a look to find out...!

Thank you...!

Cheers
George

 

[DocStram]

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

Well maybe it's just because I read faster than most (and type slower) but I figure when I click the new posts it takes me 10 maybe 15 seconds to scan the list and see if there are any I might want to read. I often wait longer to get there than it takes me to check. I don't even look at what category they're in. I just check the titles and the poster.

ed and Smitty . . . . I don't get it. This thing has dragged on for 390 some posts. I'm not going to take the time to go back and document your posts. But, it seems to me that one minute you're saying that you back Jeff and the mods along with the new rules . . . . and then, suddenly, you submit a post filled with sarcasm. So, tell me . . . . which is it?

On second thought, I'm with George. I'm done reading this thread.

 

[thewishman]

I like being able to buy things through the classified sections.
I like finding out where someone got their components/blanks/doodads/freebies(or freebees (sic)) etc.
I like sharing where I got my stuff.
I like to praise a vendor for a good experience.
I like being able to get answers to questions from the seller in the thread.
I like have full information when making a special tool purchase.

A lot of the things I purchase are the results of a long thread with lots of feedback and answered questions - especially tools that are new to me.

If we can't get answers from vendors in their threads, doesn't that deprive the community of potentially valuable information?

Examples:
Carbide tools
Custom tool rests
Turning-between-centers - bushings, special centers...
Bottle stoppers
Pendants
Sanding mills
Taps and dies

Many of the above mentioned things that are commonly used now are the result of an idea that a vendor had and was able to adapt and modify based on the shared feedback of the community.

Would our potential penmaking benefit from NOT being able to ask Curtis how his vacuum chamber and Cactus Juice(r) works? How about the Pen Wizard - there was even a special forum set up to discuss that product.

How would I have learned how to use a die holder? Could George sell a Custom dual size die holder and still be allowed to have his previous "How to use a die holder video" on the site. Would that be considered "sneaky marketing" with a "devious long-range sales plan?"

How about turning a new material? M3, Tru-stone, gator jaw blanks. How will a new product be introduced? How could we find out more about the Tru-Quarter blanks?

There are a lot of people selling stuff here. There are a lot of people who like to buy that stuff here.

I love coming here, sharing here, learning here - being part of this community. I have referred many pen guys and some gals to this place.


Charging money for classifieds is fine. Please don't limit the sharing of information on a product just because it is for sale. The creator/modifier is the most knowledgeable person to ask - the very person who cannot provide public answers.

 

[Smitty37]

We slipped

Well I just clicked new posts...and on my first page there were 26 posts - 1 individual classified no business classifieds and probably 12 or 14 SYOP.
Less then 4% related to selling.

That seems to represent the desires of a lot of members pretty well.

Well Smitty--as you know, these numbers will vary (ok, swing wildly) based on the time you look. So, let's be fair and look at the "universe".

There have been 965,877 posts on IAP according to the first page entries.

Looking at the "forums", you will see the Individual Classifieds and the Business Classifieds have had 48,929 and 27165 posts, respectively.

Thus, the total is 76094 posts are ADS.
Slightly LESS than EIGHT PERCENT OF THE ENTRIES!!!

This new program will, likely reduce that number farther. But, as someone said, no point in debating when the answer is a "no-brainer"!

Well maybe it's just because I read faster than most (and type slower) but I figure when I click the new posts it takes me 10 maybe 15 seconds to scan the list and see if there are any I might want to read. I often wait longer to get there than it takes me to check. I don't even look at what category they're in. I just check the titles and the poster.

ed and Smitty . . . . I don't get it. This thing has dragged on for 390 some posts. I'm not going to take the time to go back and document your posts. But, it seems to me that one minute you're saying that you back Jeff and the mods along with the new rules . . . . and then, suddenly, you submit a post filled with sarcasm. So, tell me . . . . which is it?

The last few posts were referencing current forum usage not the new. Things got off track a bit.

 

[ed4copies]

You don't have to have only ONE opinion.

When there is evidence that slants one way, I read it. When there is evidence the other, I read it too.

The ONLY thing that matters is the new rules represent the way Jeff would like us to conduct ourselves in his house and, as I have always TRIED to do, I will attempt to comply with his wishes.

He has never told me he wishes I would stop thinking,or weighing evidence though.

 

[Smitty37]

hmmm

and here I thought you were just aiming at the 400th post in this thread....

 

[Phunky_2003]

and here I thought you were just aiming at the 400th post in this thread....

I get 400