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Paul in OKC

Paul in OKC

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Oklahoma City, OK, USA.
Well, it is a shame the birthday post was locked. I sinced no guilt trip stuff there. I get more guilt trip ladden stuff in e-mails that say 'If you love God you won't break this chain'. I have a delete button, and the option to read something or not, so....
There is no better way to bring up the reason for the season than to say something about the reason, Jesus.
Jesus said that if you are ashamed of Me before men, I will be ashamed of you before My Father.
I suppose this may be considered preaching as well, but had to speak.

So, that said, Merry Christ</u>mas!
 
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Paul,
I am a Christian also.... but I also respect the believings of others... and in this case I believe that those of other beliefs felt put off by the posting. Would you have felt the same about that thread if it were related to the Buddist, Muslim or Judaism religions.. or the celebration of Kwanza...

I wish all our members a happy, holy and joyous holiday season... no matter what your beliefs are.
 
I hope those who refuse to say "Merry C" word(due to the PC attitude of this site) show up for work on the 26th since it will probably be a legal holiday.
 
I am a Christian and I do respect others...but can they not respect mine (ours)? I mean they can talk about their religion (or whatever belief including disbelief) and it won't offend me one bit.

Please do not censure others because it will offend you (unless there is really something offending). Otherwise we all here cannot talk about anything anymore. What if it offends me to see spalt (it is rot anyway)...should everyone stop posting those???

It really is hypocritical if they say CHRISTmas is not about CHRIST!!! On this season, if they elect to celebrate something else that is fine...but please do not take it away from some of us.
 
I find it odd that the busineses that are afraid of 'offending' someone aren't naming who is offended, nor do they tell us how much MONEY that the offended ones spend! Reckon the Offended Ones are the ones who put their businesses inthe black by the end of the year? I think not.

But found this online, its kinda funny & puts some of it in perspective. PC has gone awry and we ARE to be tolerant of every religion EXCEPT Christianity. That is what I have a problem with and I refuse to wish someone a Happy Holiday when they don't have a problem with responding with Happy Ramadan or Happy Hannukah or whatever. Shouldn't we ALL be willing to hear it all???

A Jewish friend of mine has advised me that there are many misconceptions about the differences between Christmas andChanukah. He explains them here, and this should clear the matter up!
John

1. Christmas is one day, same day, every year: December 25th. Jews also love December 25th. It's another paid day off work forus. We go to the movies and then out for Chinese food.

2. Chanukah is eight days. It starts the evening of the 24th of Kislev, whenever that is. No one is ever sure. Jews never knowuntil a non-Jew asks when Chanukah starts, forcing us to consult a calendar so we don't look like idiots. Jews all have the samecalendar, provided to us free ( after a donation to the World Jewish Congress) by the local kosher butcher, or the local Jewishfuneral home.

3. Christmas is a major holiday. Chanukah is a minor holiday with the same theme as most Jewish holidays, i.e.,"They tried to killus. We survived. Let's eat."

4. Christians get wonderful presents such as jewelry, perfume, stereos. Jews get practical presents such as underwear or socks.5. There is only one way to spell Christmas. No one can decide how to spell Chanukah, Chanukkah, Chanukka, Channukah,Hanukah, Hannukah, etc.

6. Christmas is at time of great pressure for husbands and boyfriends. Their partners expect special gifts. Jewish men are relievedof that burden. No Jewish woman expects a diamond ring on Chanukah.

7. Christmas brings enormous electric bills. Candles are used for Chanukah. Not only are Jews spared enormous electric bills, but we get to feel good about not contributing to the energy crisis.

8. Christmas carols are beautiful - Silent Night, Come All Ye Faithful. Chanukah songs are about dreidels made from clay orhaving a party and dancing the horah. Of course, Jews are secretly pleased that many of the beautiful carols were composed andwritten by Jews. And don't Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond sing them beautifully.

9. A home preparing for Christmas smells wonderful. The sweet smell of cookies and cakes baking. Happy people gather aroundin festive moods. A home preparing for Chanukah smells of oil, potatoes, and onions. The home, as always, is full of loud peopleall talking at once.

10. Christian women have fun baking Christmas cookies. Jewish women burn their eyes and cut their hands grating potatoes andonions for latkes.

11. Parents deliver to their children on Christmas. Jewish parents have no qualms about withholding a gift on any of the eightnights

12. The players in the Christmas story have easy to pronounce names such as Mary, Joseph, and Jesus. The players in theChanukah story are Antiochus, Judah Maccabee, and Matta whatever. No one can spell it or pronounce it. On the plus side, wecan tell our gentile friends anything, and they believe we are wonderfully versed in our history.

13. Christians believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. Jews think, "Joseph, snap out of it. Your woman is pregnant, you didn't sleepwith her, and now you want to blame God? Here's the number of my shrink."
 
Due to Commentary on Rush Limbaughs show Lowesd sent a message to my wifes store and had them remove all the "Holiday Tree" signs."She is the manager of the nursery at our local Lowes.
The only signs allowed for trees that people buy and decorate are"C"word trees(again due to the PC nature of this site I didn't finish spelling the word)
 
Originally posted by Paul in OKC
<br />
PC has gone awry and we ARE to be tolerant of every religion EXCEPT Christianity. That is what I have a problem with...
Click to expand...
Thanks, John and Dario. This is the main thing that is so frustrating. Free speech is ok until you mention Jesus.
Click to expand...
So is the the reason we celebrate the 25th
 
Though taken out of it's original context (read the writings of our founding fathers for the specifics), this nation has long prided itself for it's religious tolerance. It's a shame that this tolerance is no longer afforded to Christianity but we are "forced" to abide by all others. As a Son of the American Revolution, I find this very disconcerting.
 
"In God We Trust" is on all american paper currency.
Paper cuuency can only legally be printed by the American government.

Since the government believes in God, that's good enough for me.

Merry Christmas Everybody!!!

----
In my customer area I have a calendar that counts down the days till christmas, so on July 1 the sign shows 171 days left till Christmas. Never fails to get a new customer to chuckle.
 
By all means Mike, Have fun with it.

I had another sign, but the wife took it down when we started taking credit cards. I'm sure you've seen this one around, but in case you didn't, the sign read "In God We Trust, All Others Must Pay Cash"
 
Okay,
1. Not everyone makes Potato Latkes (pancakes). Basically, during Chanukah, the mitzvah (blessing) is to eat foods that are fried in oil. We also eat Chinese food, sufnigut (jelly donuts[:D]), or anything that is fried (one of the reasons my chlorestoral is high[V]).

2. The 24th of Kislev is the same time every year. The reason it looks like the holidays are jumping around is that Judaism follows the lunar calendar (complex to begin with, it follows a 19 year cycle, which we just finished). So Chanukah can be according to the Gregorian calendar (Solar), anytime between the end of November and end of December, depending on how many months and days are in the Jewish calendar.

3. Chanukah is not one of the 3 major Jewish holidays (Rosh Hashanah, Passover, and Shavout) or a Torah obligated holiday. It is one of 2 holidays that are triumphs over an oppressor that tried to exterminate the Jews (Can you get the other? Winner gets a potato latke recipe.)

4. The reason Chanukah is spelled many different ways is in the translation, which I won't get into, otherwise this e-mail will be a book.

5. A lot of Orthodox Jews actually use olive oil instead of candles. This is to symbolize that when the Macabee's were only able to find one days worth of oil for the menorah, and it lasted 8 days.

6. I won't get into the music.

Just remember, Jews have 613 mitvahs to deal with, Non-Jews, 7 (And I won't list them, other than to say it's the Noachide Laws).

By the way Happy Holidays.

Kol Tov,
 
Jeff
I have a old and close friend that celebrates Chanukah. I have no problem saying Happy Chanukah to him and he has no problem saying Merry Christmas to me.

The most important holiday that Christians observe is also based on a lunar calendar. Easter falls on the first sunday after the first full moon of spring.

BTW
Happy Chanukah

Best wishes
 
Why don't I wish everyone a Merry Christmas? The simple answer is, because not everyone celebrates Christmas. Some are more adamant about their beliefs than others, and I really don't care to find out who among those around me is of this more adamant variety. By wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, or simply Happy Holidays, I can express my desire that at least this next month or so will be filled with happiness, peace, fond memories, and good food for you, and I can do so without having to wonder whether I might offend you. I guess I'm just lazy.

Now, does that mean that if I were to wish someone like Jeff (Yaakov) a Merry Christmas that I think he should take offense to it? Absolutely not! Nor do I think Jeff would. Jeff is clearly a very religious person, but I think Jeff would take it in the spirit in which it is intended - that is:
* I am, in some manner or other, a Christian and I celebrate Christmas;
* To me, Christmas is a time to come together, put differences aside, and share happiness with others (which, with a family the size of mine, is truly a blessing); and
* I sincerely wish for you that, during my holiday season, you will receive the same blessings.

By the way, Jeff, I don't mean to pick on you, but your post is sitting just above the message box as I'm writing this!

I arrived at this perspective on holiday wishes in a rather odd manner. Growing up, my parents divorced when I was little, and one of our neighborhood friends, a recent divorcee, took my mother and I in to live with her for about a year. She had a son six years younger than me, and as she was Jewish, she was raising him to practice that faith. I learned a fair amount about Judiasm at that time, though a lot of it has since been forgotten. But one of the big things I learned is that there are different faiths other than Chrisitianity, and that some people take theirs very seriously.

Years later, when I was in college, I worked in a predominately Jewish part of South Jersey one holiday season. While there, I was wished Happy Chanukah about five times more often than I was wished a Merry Christmas, and the first several times I heard it, I was taken aback. It amazed me that these people just assumed I was Jewish! Then it dawned on me that I was doing the same to them when I wished them a Merry Christmas - I was assuming that they practiced the same faith as me, and I realized that that was because I was looking at things from my self-centered universe. I quickly decided that, rather than taking offense, I could take the Happy Chanukah wish in the spirit in which it was intended (which is similar to my Merry Christmas wish). I also realized that by simply switching from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, I could still express everything I wanted to express, and could do so that actually better conveyed the spirit of the wish I was bestowing on the person.

So, may each of you (especially those who suffered through my entire little tirade here) have a joyous and blessed holiday season! I'm glad we can have these kinds of discussions on here without it turning into a hate-filled confrontation.
 
so in essence Jim you just chose to be politically correct.
what a shame.
"By wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, or simply Happy Holidays, I can express my desire that at least this next month or so will be filled with happiness, peace, fond memories, and good food for you, and I can do so without having to wonder whether I might offend you. I guess I'm just lazy."
That's what is wrong with this country,
Not the fact that you want to extend good wishes but are afraid of offending someone.
Well if you wish me happy Holidays rather than Merry "C" word "because this is such a P.C.site"
I will be offended,so you see, your plan didn't work and wound up offending someone anyway.
 
I just wanted to apologize if I did offend anyone by making the Birthday post. I am not sorry I made it, just sorry if I offended anyone.
I will not go any farther than saying that, because I am a very opinionated person when it comes to the subject. But I didn't want to not post anything because I didn't want to look like somebody that was just trying to start trouble.[B)]
If such things do offend you, PLEASE, do not read the next line.[:D]
Merry <b>Christ</b>mas!!!

Micah
 
Jeff(Yaakov)

I know it is not the answer you wanted, but if I promise not to stir the controversy any more, can I have the potato latke recipe? When my wife and I were stationed in Puerto Rico, our best friends were a Jewish couple. The wives were amazed how much the Polish and Jewish recipes overlapped. If I remember correctly, the Polish equivalent to latke is called Plotski(sp). Nancy cooks them for me, not often enough(!), and they are delicious. Anyway, I would love the recipe to compare to hers.

Have a happy lathe session, [:D]
 
Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />That's what is wrong with this country,
Not the fact that you want to extend good wishes but are afraid of offending someone.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that we should all speak our mind all the time, without fear of offending someone? In my line of work, that's how you lose clients and go broke. Maybe that's being PC, but it's also just good business sense, and it translates well into the social realm too.
 
Eagle, I'm with you on this one. What I find really offensive is the fact that we, as American citizens, have to tiptoe around all this "politically correct" "stuff". If I want to wish someone a Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah or Happy Halloween or Happy Whatever, I have a First Amendment right to do so. Has everyone forgotten the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

If, on the other hand, that same someone happens to not agree with what I beleive, they also have a First Amendment right to do so. I will not take offense if someone disagrees with me. They have a right to do so. Just don't try to tell me I can't express my beliefs and ideas just becase someone MAY be offended.

So, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Birthday, Happy Whatever to each and everyone of you.
 
Okay,
Since I was asked nicely, here's a link for a potato latke recipe.
http://www.chabad.org/holidays/chanukah/article.asp?AID=103032

By the way, there is a good cook book by the Lubavitch called Spice and Spirit. It has several different latke recipes, including, sweet potato and zucchini.

Also, the other holiday that is not in the Torah that we celebrate is Purim.

Kol Tov,
 
Originally posted by JHFerrell
<br />Eagle, I'm with you on this one. What I find really offensive is the fact that we, as American citizens, have to tiptoe around all this "politically correct" "stuff". If I want to wish someone a Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah or Happy Halloween or Happy Whatever, I have a First Amendment right to do so. Has everyone forgotten the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

If, on the other hand, that same someone happens to not agree with what I beleive, they also have a First Amendment right to do so. I will not take offense if someone disagrees with me. They have a right to do so. Just don't try to tell me I can't express my beliefs and ideas just becase someone MAY be offended.

So, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Birthday, Happy Whatever to each and everyone of you.
Click to expand...

Are you telling me that you have the right to dig up your neighbors’ tree? Or paint his house a different color?

I hear everyone yelling of first amendment rights so I guess you can yell fire in the shopping mall, yell bomb on an airplane, or tell the bank teller that you have a gun......Please go try one of these and see what happens.


This site is OWNED by Jeff! It IS private property!

The fact that you are allowed to post here is because he is a nice guy
(or so I have heard), but the fact remains that you have agreed to the Terms of service before you were allowed to post. Perhaps you should read them.

If you disagree with the decision that Jeff has made then by all means go get yourself a domain, start your own forum and exercise your right. The constitution and bill of rights are still intact. You have the right to do just that.

Secondly, you are missing the point. Read Jeff's posts and think about them a little bit. He never said we could not wish someone a merry Christmas, he asked that we do it in a less intense way.

So there you go folks, call me a scrooge, a f%&*er, or whatever else you want to.
 
There is a sign at the Methodist church that reads, the truth shall set you free.

So here is my Politically Correct Holiday Greetings

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive,
gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within
the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular
practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular
persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice
religious or secular traditions at all;"

In addition........

"A fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated
recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year, but not
without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose
contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to imply that
America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only
"AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race,
creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer
platform, or sexual orientation of the wisher."


(Disclaimer: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms.
This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely
transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no
promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for
her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is
revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to
perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a
period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish
or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher who assumes
no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings
may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)

Now if you survived that then here is my NPC
Merry Christmas everyone
And if you want to reply Happy or Merry (whatever) you may do so without offending me. Though it may increase my prayer list.
 
Are you telling me that you have the right to dig up your neighbors’ tree? Or paint his house a different color?

I hear everyone yelling of first amendment rights so I guess you can yell fire in the shopping mall, yell bomb on an airplane, or tell the bank teller that you have a gun......Please go try one of these and see what happens.


Mudder...not saying anything of the sort. And if its all the same to you I won't try any of those things you are suggesting. I think those would all be criminal acts not protected by the First Amendment.

Furthermore, I do not disagree with Jeff's decision...as you point out its his website....its also his right to do with it as he sees fit. What I do disagree with is what seems to be quickly becoming a requirement to be Politically Correct in everything I do or say. That's all I was trying to get across.
 
Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />Paul,
I am a Christian also.... but I also respect the believings of others... and in this case I believe that those of other beliefs felt put off by the posting. Would you have felt the same about that thread if it were related to the Buddist, Muslim or Judaism religions.. or the celebration of Kwanza...

I wish all our members a happy, holy and joyous holiday season... no matter what your beliefs are.
Click to expand...

Tom, I think the replies that Yakov got to this post are clear evidence that Christians on this site did not get offended. I would hope that Yakov would offer the same courtesy and respect to a Christan that he expected of his own post.

The truth is that you don't find a lot of Christians complaining about other religion's holidays. But a lot of other religion's complain about Christianity.

I was hoping that THIS year would show that mankind has really learned to accept each other while being steadfast in their own faith. Well, maybe next year. [:(]
 
Doe sanyone know how much CA it would take to turn a pen out of potato latke? [:D] It sure would improve the taste of a nervous habit.
 
Originally posted by JimGo
<br />
Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />That's what is wrong with this country,
Not the fact that you want to extend good wishes but are afraid of offending someone.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that we should all speak our mind all the time, without fear of offending someone? In my line of work, that's how you lose clients and go broke. Maybe that's being PC, but it's also just good business sense, and it translates well into the social realm too.
Click to expand...
Who told you to be a lawyer?What did you expect?
In a national survey they ranked less respected than used car salesmen.
 
Who told you to be a lawyer?What did you expect?
In a national survey they ranked less respected than used car salesmen.
Click to expand...
I never said I was due respect because of my job. Respect is earned through other means, such as staying intellectually honest, and respecting others. Again, if I were to always speak my mind without fear of offending others, I would say a lot of disrespectful things (like "I hope you have a lousy holiday season"). Instead, I choose usually to be respectful of others, and hope the same will be done for me.

Also, I notice that you never answered my question, so I'll pose it again:

Are you suggesting that we should all speak our mind all the time, without fear of offending someone?
 
I believe we (not just us here, but all of American society) are going through a form of revolution. Our country has become so PC conscious that any expression of opinion or hint of being offended brings the sky crashing down. As a young man I worked for Jews. We respected each others holy days. A suggestion that I might be offended by a "Happy Hannuka" or they by a "Merry Christmas" would have been unthinkable. Stores like Goldblatts, Marshall Fields were jewish owned but decorated with (Christan) Christmas themes. Harrods in London is Muslim owned but diplays what may be the most beautiful (Christan) Christmas displays in the world. Yakov offended me by attempting to control this list with his expression of being "offended". If the little messages here offended him, I can't imagine how he survives in this world with all the other messages swirling about. I wrote Jeff. He apparently didn't care for my expression of opinion. That's OK, this is America, he has that right. I preceded my message to him saying that I respected his position as moderator and right to do whatever he wished with the list. Respect doesn't mean agreement. I predict the 'anti-Christan' forces are going to shoot themselves in the foot. American values will prevail. Since I am currently 'at war' with Maryland, this could be an opportunity to crack-wise about all the liberals that live there. But this being the holy season of forgivness I won't. Liberals don't have a sense of humor anyhow. [:0][:p][:)]
 
Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Jeff(Yaakov)

I know it is not the answer you wanted, but if I promise not to stir the controversy any more, can I have the potato latke recipe? When my wife and I were stationed in Puerto Rico, our best friends were a Jewish couple. The wives were amazed how much the Polish and Jewish recipes overlapped. If I remember correctly, the Polish equivalent to latke is called Plotski(sp). Nancy cooks them for me, not often enough(!), and they are delicious. Anyway, I would love the recipe to compare to hers.

Have a happy lathe session, [:D]
Click to expand...

Of course, the reason so many Jewish and Polish recipies are similar is because Poland had a very large Jewish population, pre-Hitler. Their history was similar. When I worked for the Chicago Tribune, I looked forward to lunch hour where I would go eat at a Jewish deli. Food was incredible. The reason so many ethnic foods are now considered delicacies is because poor people and those forced into a lower class way of life had to find a way to make less desirable raw foods edible. With seasonings, pickling and much ingenuity what we now relish as the finest foods evovled. I'm getting hungry. I'm having visions of kreplachs and knishes dancing around the Christmas tree. [:)]
 
All I have to say is watch the name of my next pen. I am a Christian that is darn proud of it and will not hide as to not offend anyone.[:D]
 
Wow! This has been a fantastic read! I really thought William had the best response for this forum with his "Have a happy lathe season", but I have to say PastorBill topped everybody! Though I am going to check out Yaakov's recipe, too.

Have a Merry and Happy whatever floats your boat...... Yes, I would have said Christmas but everybody seems to be having so much fun! [:p]
 
Although I would like to take credit for the recipe(s) {there are more on the site}, they are in the Lubavitch cookbook, Spice and Spirit. By the way, don't forget the jelly donuts[:D].

As to me being offended, I was not raised Orthodox, but have become so. I am not going to get into the religious debate, because there would be no winners. When I posted in October about Rosh Hashana and the other High Holidays, it was to explain what they were and the significance, not to prosylitise (sp?).

If I offended, I appologize.

Kol Tov,
 
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