Chinese Pen Component Sets

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Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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Let me start by saying I sell mainland Chinese manufactured component sets and have been doing so since 2007.

Let me also say, that I can think of a lot of reasons to not buy mainline Chinese products when there are alternatives and I personally don't hold it against anyone who refuses to buy them.

Having said that - I'm saying that you can not automatically assume that a pen kit made on mainland China is going to have inferior plating, fit and finish to products made elsewhere. Perhaps a few years ago you could have but today I don't think so.

Plating: The leading mainland manufacturers are utilizing the same equipment and plating methods and in most cases formulae as the Taiwan manufacturers. Some of them actually import the equipment from Taiwan.
The softer more wear prone platings are usually epoxy coated the same as those from Taiwan. There is usually very little difference in thickness of the plating and normally not much difference in the base. Simply because in plating thicker does not automatically translate to better and in some instances translates to worse.

Fit: I have not had any general 'fit' problems reported for a long time. Occasionally, like with all kits no matter where they are manufactured, there is an isolated incident.

Finish: Here there is some room to say the mainland Chinese don't have it quite right yet, particularily on clips. I think that is more a matter of some proprietary processes than just workmanship. In this area I often see people making comparisons of kits that cost $4.00 - $6.00 with kits that cost $12.00 to $15.00 - for 2 to 3 times the price you should expect something to be better.
 
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I will continue to avoid buying Chinese products even though the reasons are other than what you state which I think you tried to emphasize as improved quality.
 
Jgrden said:
I will continue to avoid buying Chinese products even though the reasons are other than what you state which I think you tried to emphasize as improved quality.
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The reasons I did not state are related to international politics and currency manipulation which are not proper subjects for discussion here. Product quality, however, is perfectly appropriate for discussion regardless of where the product is manufactured.
 
Smitty37 said:
Jgrden said:
I will continue to avoid buying Chinese products even though the reasons are other than what you state which I think you tried to emphasize as improved quality.
Click to expand...
The reasons I did not state are related to international politics and currency manipulation which are not proper subjects for discussion here. Product quality, however, is perfectly appropriate for discussion regardless of where the product is manufactured.
Click to expand...

No apologies.
 
None needed

Jgrden said:
Smitty37 said:
Jgrden said:
I will continue to avoid buying Chinese products even though the reasons are other than what you state which I think you tried to emphasize as improved quality.
Click to expand...
The reasons I did not state are related to international politics and currency manipulation which are not proper subjects for discussion here. Product quality, however, is perfectly appropriate for discussion regardless of where the product is manufactured.
Click to expand...

No apologies.
Click to expand...
Didn't ask for any - just stated a fact covered by the forum rules.
 
sbell111 said:
Thanks for your post, Smitty. I think that it took some amount of courage to take your stand knowing that your position would catch some criticism.

I think that too many people confuse Chinese people and companies with the Chinese government.
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We disagree often Steve but here we are on the same page. Without going into the politics of it there is no historical reason that China and the USA should not have cordial relations. Our first coast to coast railroad (the part from California to Utah) was built primarily with Chinese immigrants and we have a long history dating back to the Clipper Ships of trade with China.
 
People in China are some of the nicest folks you can ever meet. I have worked with several both here in the states and on global teams through networking. I have several in China on my friends list.

With that said I dont typically buy Chinese goods if I can help it, due to all the negative stories in the media the last few years about the safety of the products.

Joe
 
Smitty- your thoughtful review of the current situation in Chinese manufacturing was helpful to me. I'm still wary of purchasing those kits, but now I know I can't just avoid all Chinese kits, thinking that "they're all bad". I prefer to buy local if possible, but since that's not always an option, it's good to get an expert's opinion.
Thanks
Catherine
 
One of my responding messages has been removed by administration. Being sanctioned by an American standing up for the United States. Does this make sense? Bring up the word China again and you will find me in opposition, again.
 
Smitty, what is your take on the quality of the plating, mainly with regard to the process.
I have first hand experience buying large quantities of silver plated connectors for the communications industry that are plated offshore. I have found that the process is often not well regulated and if the plating equipment and/or the chemicals used are not adequately monitored, problems occur. Personally I am not confident that the same work ethic exists there as here. But then that is probably not as prominent as it was in my younger days even in this country.
 
Dale Allen said:
Smitty, what is your take on the quality of the plating, mainly with regard to the process.
I have first hand experience buying large quantities of silver plated connectors for the communications industry that are plated offshore. I have found that the process is often not well regulated and if the plating equipment and/or the chemicals used are not adequately monitored, problems occur. Personally I am not confident that the same work ethic exists there as here. But then that is probably not as prominent as it was in my younger days even in this country.
Click to expand...

I can't really speak to your question in a general way because my experience with pen kits is with only one manufacturer.

They are using modern equipment and up to date plating technology and using the processes and methods often recommended by US plating companies for similar kinds of plating tasks and goals. Their plating compares favorably with that of most other manufacturers that I am familiar with.
 
Hi Smitty, i,ve used several chinese kits and the other counterparts and some have been pretty good. One of my favourites being the polaris, one thing i have noticed with this kit and others is the quality of the transmission. The Chinese ones being a little rougher than none Chinese.
 
Could be

rich gubbin said:
Hi Smitty, i,ve used several chinese kits and the other counterparts and some have been pretty good. One of my favourites being the polaris, one thing i have noticed with this kit and others is the quality of the transmission. The Chinese ones being a little rougher than none Chinese.
Click to expand...
The direct comparison I've done is fairly limited because most of the Taiwanese kits I've handled were styles that don't have transmissions.....the 7mm slimline/comfort/streamline/etc transmissions I handle both Taiwanese and Chinese versions the Taiwanese are about 20% more expensive. To be frank I can detect very little if any difference in operation and I do have repeat customers for both. I have had no complaints to speak of about either.

I did have one major problem with transmissions from China about 3 years ago but it showed up as an assembly problem not an operational one. The supplier had installed a new machine in their assembly process that put 3 small crimps on the end of the transmission the cap piece of slimline pens slid over - they got that adjusted wrong and the crimps protruded a bit too far making it very difficult to install or remove the caps. I informed them and they fixed it, including sending me about 1500 replacement transmissions. For those who had already used the transmissions and did not want to tear pens apart, the fix was relatively easy using a file or a dremel rotating tool with a grinding bit.

I occasionaly get a transmission problem with Chinese made Cigars and/or Le Rois but from things reported and questions asked in these forums it doesn't seem to happen any more often that with kits from other suppliers.
If I asked them to, my supplier would supply Taiwanese transmissions with their kits at a little higher price - I have not felt that my buyers would be willing to pay more for them.

Just as an aside because I don't know for sure but I would not be surprised if we learn one day that some of the Taiwanese transmissions come from the same factory that some of the Chinese transmissions come from. I do sell click pens from China that the Clicker's come from a well known Taiwanese producer - but they are not what you'll get if you order similar kits. You'll get Chinese made - I specified that I wanted the best click mechanism available - and paid for it.
 
Smitty37 said:
maxwell_smart007 said:
Does anyone know if David at Timberbits sources from Taiwan, or China. His kits are excellent...
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My first guess is both....I know he has developed his own sources and isn't locked into the big names.
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I think there is a thread on here somewhere where David went into some detail about how he developed his sources - he didn't give too many specifics about them but it was an interesting read. Maybe someone can find it and point to it.
 
Hi Guys, My name popped up so I though I should join in the conversation. Just got off the plane and arrived home after a week in Taiwan and China.

I buy from 3 Taiwan factories (if you call them that, actually I should call them suppliers) and 3 Mainland Chinese ones.

I have now stopped buying from Dayacom, so Dayacom is not included in the 3 from Taiwan.

I find this thread very interesting because were getting to a turning point in the Chinese/Taiwan supplier relationship.

I originally started by dealing with Rizheng and Dayacom. As most of you guys know the difference between the two are chalk and cheese. The price difference between the two are also miles apart. That was over 5 years ago and outside of them, the market has moved on. The difference between the two are pretty still much the same 5 years on.

How the market has changed outside these two suppliers is that the Taiwanese suppliers are still a little bit more expensive than the Mainlanders but the difference you get in terms of the product difference and customer service is again miles apart.

The Mainland prices are slowly catching up to the Taiwanese and its getting to the point where the price difference it trivial.

An example of this is the slimline - If you buy in quantity from Rizheng, you'll get it for between $0.75 to $0.85 depending on how many thousand you buy. You can now get slimlines out of Taiwan for $0.82.

Yes there is over a 10% but the difference is 7 cents (worst case scenario). Now we retailers sell them for $1.60 to $1.75. In the overall scheme of things, is the 7 cents worth all the fuss? I have made a business decision to slowly move away from the Main Land variety and take the 7 cents out of my margins.

Yes I do have the luxury of buying in quantity which gets me this price advantage, but that is also because I am not buying from Dayacom. If you only use Dayacom as a yard stick as Made in Taiwan, you would never be able to buy for this price - you would have to pay about the $1.20 to $1.30. At that price, I wouldn't be able to absorb the price difference.

As a resell, dealing with the Taiwanese is much much easier than dealing with the Mainlanders. They stand behind their products and you know what your getting. I can spot the difference between a Taiwanese made kit and a Chinese made kit.

To say that there is little difference between the plating in the two countries - OMG - are you serious? You should have a long hard look and see if I am kidding. I can't believe you say there is little difference.

Lots of Chinese companies buy equipment from Italy, Germany, UK, US other parts of the world. Does this mean the stuff they produce as the same as what is produced from those countries? I think not. I think your kidding yourself on that as well.

Fit and finish from Rizheng all smooth and rosy? Hrmm... I would beg to differ. Even the Taiwanese including Dayacom get it wrong sometimes. It just seems to happen a lot more often with the Main land variety.

Unfortunately when people ask "Is it Made in China?", what they are usually saying is "is it made by Rizheng?". For those that have been round long enough, there are a lot of negative thoughts when they hear that name.

Another issue with dealing with the two above is that there has always been a honor agreement between a factory and a customer. I as a customer get you to make stuff for me. I put up the 50% deposit and the other 50% when you ship it off to me. You as the factory cannot undercut my prices and try to compete with me for my customers.

When a factory/supplier does that to you, you should seriously think twice about dealing with them. I have weened myself off one and trying to ween myself off the other.

Dayacom use to taunt Rizheng for selling direct to the customer, he is now doing the same - this is one of the reasons (other than their ridiculous price) why I have chosen not to buy from him.

Smitty - Yes I do sell Mainland kits, I think it's wrong to say the kits are getting to close to parity with the Taiwan kits. I sell Mainland kits because I acknowledge that their are some people who are not interested in making a heirloom pen. They are people on fixed income or a business model where price is the single most important factor.

What is more important is the love and time that has gone into the pen - people appreciate the pen because their loved on has made - not the fact that it has a perfect fit and finish on the barrel or a rare piece of timber on it.

Most users however on the IAP are the opposite of this. That want a better quality even though it will cost a little to a lot more. There is a constant evaluation on price vs quality and currently the Mainland variety is not good enough for them.

Hope I haven't gone off in a tangent. It's just my honest opinion.

Regards

David
 
timberbits said:
Hi Guys, My name popped up so I though I should join in the conversation. Just got off the plane and arrived home after a week in Taiwan and China.

I buy from 3 Taiwan factories (if you call them that, actually I should call them suppliers) and 3 Mainland Chinese ones.

I have now stopped buying from Dayacom, so Dayacom is not included in the 3 from Taiwan.

I find this thread very interesting because were getting to a turning point in the Chinese/Taiwan supplier relationship.

I originally started by dealing with Rizheng and Dayacom. As most of you guys know the difference between the two are chalk and cheese. The price difference between the two are also miles apart. That was over 5 years ago and outside of them, the market has moved on. The difference between the two are pretty still much the same 5 years on.

How the market has changed outside these two suppliers is that the Taiwanese suppliers are still a little bit more expensive than the Mainlanders but the difference you get in terms of the product difference and customer service is again miles apart.

The Mainland prices are slowly catching up to the Taiwanese and its getting to the point where the price difference it trivial.

An example of this is the slimline - If you buy in quantity from Rizheng, you'll get it for between $0.75 to $0.85 depending on how many thousand you buy. You can now get slimlines out of Taiwan for $0.82.

Yes there is over a 10% but the difference is 7 cents (worst case scenario). Now we retailers sell them for $1.60 to $1.75. In the overall scheme of things, is the 7 cents worth all the fuss? I have made a business decision to slowly move away from the Main Land variety and take the 7 cents out of my margins.

Yes I do have the luxury of buying in quantity which gets me this price advantage, but that is also because I am not buying from Dayacom. If you only use Dayacom as a yard stick as Made in Taiwan, you would never be able to buy for this price - you would have to pay about the $1.20 to $1.30. At that price, I wouldn't be able to absorb the price difference.

As a resell, dealing with the Taiwanese is much much easier than dealing with the Mainlanders. They stand behind their products and you know what your getting. I can spot the difference between a Taiwanese made kit and a Chinese made kit.

To say that there is little difference between the plating in the two countries - OMG - are you serious? You should have a long hard look and see if I am kidding. I can't believe you say there is little difference.

Lots of Chinese companies buy equipment from Italy, Germany, UK, US other parts of the world. Does this mean the stuff they produce as the same as what is produced from those countries? I think not. I think your kidding yourself on that as well.

Fit and finish from Rizheng all smooth and rosy? Hrmm... I would beg to differ. Even the Taiwanese including Dayacom get it wrong sometimes. It just seems to happen a lot more often with the Main land variety.

Unfortunately when people ask "Is it Made in China?", what they are usually saying is "is it made by Rizheng?". For those that have been round long enough, there are a lot of negative thoughts when they hear that name.

Another issue with dealing with the two above is that there has always been a honor agreement between a factory and a customer. I as a customer get you to make stuff for me. I put up the 50% deposit and the other 50% when you ship it off to me. You as the factory cannot undercut my prices and try to compete with me for my customers.

When a factory/supplier does that to you, you should seriously think twice about dealing with them. I have weened myself off one and trying to ween myself off the other.

Dayacom use to taunt Rizheng for selling direct to the customer, he is now doing the same - this is one of the reasons (other than their ridiculous price) why I have chosen not to buy from him.

Smitty - Yes I do sell Mainland kits, I think it's wrong to say the kits are getting to close to parity with the Taiwan kits. I sell Mainland kits because I acknowledge that their are some people who are not interested in making a heirloom pen. They are people on fixed income or a business model where price is the single most important factor.

What is more important is the love and time that has gone into the pen - people appreciate the pen because their loved on has made - not the fact that it has a perfect fit and finish on the barrel or a rare piece of timber on it.

Most users however on the IAP are the opposite of this. That want a better quality even though it will cost a little to a lot more. There is a constant evaluation on price vs quality and currently the Mainland variety is not good enough for them.

Hope I haven't gone off in a tangent. It's just my honest opinion.

Regards

David
Click to expand...
Thank you David.
 
Difficulty

I will make this observation based on my experience. David observed that Taiwan used to pretty much mean Dayacom and Chinese pretty much meant Rizheng. He also mentions that he travels extensively both on the mainland and on Taiwan finding and developing suppliers.

A factor for most of us who, unlike David, are not large enough to justify travel to Taiwan and/or China to find suppliers - it is extremely difficult to find other manufacturers. It isn't easy to even find reliable agents who can translate our requirements to the local language. I've had very little success trying to find alternative suppliers.

Mainmold is making kits on Taiwan for some US Manufacturers - I have had contact with them but have not been able to overcome the language barrier for placing orders, but I probably will eventually. I have not been able to find any others on Taiwan.

On mainland China, I've had even less success finding any alternative to Rizheng. I have not found any that could be relied on.
 
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