Centerbands and tapping threads

[Rob Eberhard Young]

Hey guys - a couple ideas/questions:

First, I know I saw it somewhere, but is anyone here using pre-made sterling rings (like the ones for your finger) as centerbands? If so, does a size 4 work out nicely for Statesman, etc. dimensions with the idea being to do a standard sleeve for install? I think I recall something about ring sizes being uniform. There are a lot of interesting ring designs out there IMO that would make great 1 of 1 type pens. Of course one could also have a jeweler make a design and use it in all pens of a certain design.

Second, I am thinking of using a section/nib from a Statesman kit but tap the acrylic on the inside of the cap side. Anyone done this yet and mated the acrylic and metal materials yet this way? I thought it might be interesting to continue to use a metal section the thread the cap to either do a no centerband design and/or do some one offs with a variety of sleeved rings just above the threads so to speak.

Any thoughts or previous experiences with this? Also, any recommendations on tapping and sets to buy, etc. would be appreciated.

 

[BRobbins629]

A #4 size ring is close but they are hard to find and not all the same dimension. A few have used or made silver rings as centerbands and modified kits in various ways. As you look deeper, you will find 2 things about the threads on kit components. They are not standard and are usually multistart. Every so often there is a group buy for a set of multistart taps and dies that match the ElGrande/Churchill threads, but even at a group rate they can be about $200 a set. One each of a custom set can be close to $500. I haven't heard of anyone matching the statesman threads.

The general recommendation around here for those venturing into threading sections is to start with a set of single start taps and dies, experiment, and see if you want to make the investment in a set of expensive dies or if you want to venture into a metal lathe with multistart threading capability and a steep learning curve. A rare few have made their own multistart taps and dies but this too requires a robust metal lathe.

BTW - in earlier threads, you noted you had previous experience with crafts - any photos or introduction to your work?

 

[Rob Eberhard Young]

Yeah, if I were thinking of a metal lathe I would be investing in CNC before I did that. Certainly turning and threading acrylic sections makes things much easier. As I said, just curious as to whether the metal kits had any issues - and they do apparently. I'm really content to work from there as my interest leans toward simple non-wood fountain pens very focused in design. I'm just trying to get a sense of how to cement those choices now and the kits are at least good for idea generation in that respect. Plus, even for partially kitless pens, the cost of even the highest end kits is more than reasonable even just to rob parts such as rings, nibs, and sections. Of course the final stop is to figure out exactly what I like and abandon the kits altogether. For that matter I don't think that CNC is all that expensive either for what it does. It just depends on whether you are ready to do what it takes to make the expense worthwhile. But for most here it just makes no sense at all given the reason for turning and/or the marketing outlets they are using.

BTW, regarding my questions on rings, etc. I never really made clear my motivation. Just feelers really as to how to integrate other craftsmen into the mix potentially that I can trade on and sell. I learned a long time ago that the road to success is easiest found by surrounding yourself with greatness. I always want to make sure of two things. First, that I am the least talented guy on a project. Second, that I own the project (laughing out loud). But all kidding aside, think about that for a moment. There was a stonemason that I used to know that worked for the most well known and highest of the high end company in that biz out of London. The guy that they sent to do all the stuff that got the photo spreads in mags, etc. is a guy you never heard of and never will. Meanwhile, his boss is famous. But what his boss has that he doesn't is a vision and an addictive personality. Not that I'm saying I'm either of those two necessarily but make no mistake, that is very much how I have accomplished anything of value in my life - art being the least of it really.

Anyway, I'm one who enjoys sharing the process with other artists. For example, when it comes to decorative silver rings, I'm much more apt to use a jeweler whom I love his or her designs as opposed to making them myself. Same goes for enamel, scrimshaw, Maki-e, and many other things as far as I'm concerned. In one of my past ventures I paid 1000% over what I could have costed myself for some bespoke enamel work. I would rather show off the talent of another than be efficient any day. Besides, it is marketing 101 for anything high end really. The clients are more than happy to pay a premium for something exceptional - especially from a recognized name. As an example, lets say I'm capable of finishing a jewelry box JUST like a Fabrege' egg and if I did it I could sell it for $500. Sure, I could do that, but better to actually get Fabrege' to do it for me, put their name on it and sell it for $2500. I'm pulling that whole thing out of the air, but I think you see where I'm coming from. Of course if in this particular industry, if a penmaker is focused on wood working and marketing at craft shows, etc. and a typical high end pen sells for say $150, none of these kinds of ideas could ever be cost effective. It is all in the marketing. Meanwhile if the same guy makes the same pen and sells it with slick marketing from an ad in the Robb Report steering to a shop on Rodeo, it sells for $750. The illusion has just become real. After all, it is only a pen...

So I'm really trying to figure out how to make something steeped in tradition as that is something very important to me. But I also want to absorb all the interesting designs out there and see what evokes an emotional response on that front. So many wonderful pens to study and enjoy. I collect high end Swiss and German timepieces and I have eveloved much the same way over the years with that as well. I'm just someone who spends most of his time thinking about little details as to me that is the whole allure of pens, watches, furniture, stonemasonry, painting, etc. I'm sure many here are the same way, although depending on how they intend to market their product they may not focus on any of the same stuff. What I see here more than anything is guys who love the process of figuring out how to do something more than anything, just for the sense of accomplishment. For me, getting there, even if it isn't my doing entirely is usually going to dictate the process as I just want the best result. If that means I have to have someone with a quarter million dollar CNC machine make something for me because I don't have the time, skill, or inclination, I won't hesitate to do it if the end result is perfect and I simply can't do it that good...