Caution Gun Pictures

[TellicoTurning]

... It is fairly comparable to the popular 9mm round. ...

I wouldn't call them comparable. Not at muzzle energy energy anyway ... .38 runs from >200 to ~300 ft/lbs for a "+P" round. A 9mm runs ~ 350 to > 450 ft/lbs for a "+P".

For pressure a .38 runs ~20,000 PSI, while a 9mm hits 39,500 PSI. Because of the low pressure bullets don't expand well... meaning less take down.

I'll take a 9 over a 38 for self defense any day. For CCW, a .380 makes a nice compromise because of its size.

Pressure does not have to do with bullet expansion, the bullet itself and velocity determine expansion. Pressure is more related to the stress put on the pistol or revolver when the round is fired. Extremely high pressure can and sometimes does cause considerable damage to the firearm and the shooter.

Math is math. Pressure is used to overcome friction and accelerate the bullet. .38's come out slower leading to less fps at impact. The .38 is not considered a very good round in terms of expansion... thus the development of several "soft loads" to compensate for the slowness.

Check out: FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Hollowpoint bullet design facilitates turning the bullet "inside out" and flattening the front, referred to as "expansion." Expansion reliably occurs only at velocities exceeding 1200 fps, so is suited only to the highest velocity handguns.

Most .38 Special loads don't hit anywhere near that... most are around or less than 1000fps. I'm not trying to "dis" the .38 - I have one. Will it stop someone, yes. Does it have the same stopping power as a 9? Forget everything else, energy @ a given distance the 9 will have a significant advantage over the 38. Not to mention you can get 5 or 6 shots from a revolver, and I can carry 16+1 in my 9. Personally I'd rather carry .50 Action Express (upwards of 10 TIMES the energy of a .38) in a Desert Eagle, but kind of hard to conceal. Not mention the last time I looked they were running $1300 or so, plus almost $2 per shot.

I'm not a shooter, I know from nothing about guns and the last and only pistol I remember shooting was a Colt .45 off the fantail of the ship to "qualify" with a pistol as per my petty officer rating... second class PO was supposed to be "qualified" with a pistol.... I'm pretty sure I hit my target... the pacific ocean.....

But all the above sounds to me like " she said Potato and he said Potahdo"... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

... It is fairly comparable to the popular 9mm round. ...

I wouldn't call them comparable. Not at muzzle energy energy anyway ... .38 runs from >200 to ~300 ft/lbs for a "+P" round. A 9mm runs ~ 350 to > 450 ft/lbs for a "+P".

For pressure a .38 runs ~20,000 PSI, while a 9mm hits 39,500 PSI. Because of the low pressure bullets don't expand well... meaning less take down.

I'll take a 9 over a 38 for self defense any day. For CCW, a .380 makes a nice compromise because of its size.

Pressure does not have to do with bullet expansion, the bullet itself and velocity determine expansion. Pressure is more related to the stress put on the pistol or revolver when the round is fired. Extremely high pressure can and sometimes does cause considerable damage to the firearm and the shooter.

Math is math. Pressure is used to overcome friction and accelerate the bullet. .38's come out slower leading to less fps at impact. The .38 is not considered a very good round in terms of expansion... thus the development of several "soft loads" to compensate for the slowness.

Check out: FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Hollowpoint bullet design facilitates turning the bullet "inside out" and flattening the front, referred to as "expansion." Expansion reliably occurs only at velocities exceeding 1200 fps, so is suited only to the highest velocity handguns.

Most .38 Special loads don't hit anywhere near that... most are around or less than 1000fps. I'm not trying to "dis" the .38 - I have one. Will it stop someone, yes. Does it have the same stopping power as a 9? Forget everything else, energy @ a given distance the 9 will have a significant advantage over the 38. Not to mention you can get 5 or 6 shots from a revolver, and I can carry 16+1 in my 9. Personally I'd rather carry .50 Action Express (upwards of 10 TIMES the energy of a .38) in a Desert Eagle, but kind of hard to conceal. Not mention the last time I looked they were running $1300 or so, plus almost $2 per shot.

I'm not a shooter, I know from nothing about guns and the last and only pistol I remember shooting was a Colt .45 off the fantail of the ship to "qualify" with a pistol as per my petty officer rating... second class PO was supposed to be "qualified" with a pistol.... I'm pretty sure I hit my target... the pacific ocean.....

But all the above sounds to me like " she said Potato and he said Potahdo"... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Gee, I had to hit a 5" power can to qualify off he fantail of the Tin Can I served on. Embarassed the daylights out of the gunner's mates when an ET popped the can twice with 5 shots and they all missed all of their's (with the same .45).

 

[Finatic]

My "Do I have your Attention" home gun,

 

[LagniappeRob]

It's a Taurus Judge? Nice!

 

[wolftat]

Math is math. Pressure is used to overcome friction and accelerate the bullet. .38's come out slower leading to less fps at impact. The .38 is not considered a very good round in terms of expansion... thus the development of several "soft loads" to compensate for the slowness.

Check out: FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Hollowpoint bullet design facilitates turning the bullet "inside out" and flattening the front, referred to as "expansion." Expansion reliably occurs only at velocities exceeding 1200 fps, so is suited only to the highest velocity handguns.

Most .38 Special loads don't hit anywhere near that... most are around or less than 1000fps. I'm not trying to "dis" the .38 - I have one. Will it stop someone, yes. Does it have the same stopping power as a 9? Forget everything else, energy @ a given distance the 9 will have a significant advantage over the 38. Not to mention you can get 5 or 6 shots from a revolver, and I can carry 16+1 in my 9. Personally I'd rather carry .50 Action Express (upwards of 10 TIMES the energy of a .38) in a Desert Eagle, but kind of hard to conceal. Not mention the last time I looked they were running $1300 or so, plus almost $2 per shot.

Rob, while what you saying makes sense on paper, I am one that has actually used my pistols in several real life situations. While the 9 may have more rounds, the first 2 rounds usually make up the entire outcome.I am required to carry an automatic on the job but my backup is a revolver and it has never jammed or misfired. There is an argument for every caliber with the good and the bad making sense but I would use my 357 backup (and off duty carry) anytime I felt my safety was on the line.The particular one on my ankle right now is over twenty years old and shoots straight and true every time. The only time I ever had a revolver not fire was with a batch of bad primers, but that would have had the same effect in any weapon.

On the 38 issue, we used to load our own and as long as we had heavy barrels, we overloaded the powder and refered to them as hyperloads. Ruger sp101 has a heavy enough barrel for it.

 

[wolftat]

My "Do I have your Attention" home gun,
View attachment 105114

Thats a nice piece, and I'm glad to see the shot shell so you don't take out every neighbor on the street.:wink:

 

[TellicoTurning]

[/quote] Gee, I had to hit a 5" power can to qualify off he fantail of the Tin Can I served on. Embarassed the daylights out of the gunner's mates when an ET popped the can twice with 5 shots and they all missed all of their's (with the same .45).[/quote]

Smitty, you're a few years older than me and was probably in the Navy when it was required to actually shoot at someone.... I was in between '60 and '64... I'm considered a Vietnam vet by 8 days... I got out 8 days after it was declared an official police action.... so likely my "qualification" was just as an after thought... a comment was made to the 2nd class Gunnersmate that I had never fired the .45.... he took me to the fan tail and my target actually was a weather balloon the weather guessers had launched... I actually think I hit it, but you can't puncture one of those balloons with a .45... it was pretty soft rubber, loosely inflated and just slid aside - if I actually hit it. I think he just needed to see that I could fire the weapon.

My service record also indicates that I am a qualified marksman with an M1.... I've never had an M1 in my hands... on the day my boot camp company went to the firing range I was scheduled for a dental appointment and the chief wouldn't let me postpone that in favor of the range... he just signed off that I was a marksman.

When Typhoon Karen wiped out our admin building and the secure communications facility, the radio shack was moved to an unused barracks area that had been walled off to create a semi-secure facility, but the chief or XO decided that the watch supervisor should wear a .45.... in a fit of boredom one midnight shift, I dismantled the pistol ... I had never done that before and no training in doing it... I put it back together but really hoped I never had to fire it.

 

[Smitty37]

On the 38 issue, we used to load our own and as long as we had heavy barrels, we overloaded the powder and refered to them as hyperloads. Ruger sp101 has a heavy enough barrel for it.

I had a Ruger Blackhawk 357 Mag as did a good friend who was also a handloader. We always used about 160 grain bullets for the 38 and we pushed them out with a bit more omph than you'd get from a factory load. We did a lot more shooting with the 38 round than the 357 because factory loads were cheaper and once fired 38 brass was much easier to come by than was 357. Judging from the books and the "kick" our top end 38 rounds were more than enough for self defense.

I have also read enough about self defense situations to know that you are spot on with the statement you made about 1st or 2nd shot ending the shooting. I don't think I've ever read of a home owner firing more than 4 shots at an intruder(s). And contrary to popular belief the intruder usually runs rather than engage the victim in a shooting match. I think some folks get too much of their information from watching movies where 40 bad guys all armed with fully automatic weapons touch of about 9000 rounds inside Grand Central Station practically bringing the building down around them -- just don't happen.

Frequently there are no shots fired and to be honest if I was in a situation where I needed 15 or 16 rounds to feel safe - I'd move. Self defense with a handgun is not expected to take place at 50 or 100 yards, If an intruder is that far away and not shooting at me, I'd get sent to jail if I shot him.

 

[SDB777]

I picked up my first Sig Sauer today, a P238 Tribal in .380. Paid way to much for it but I have always wanted a Sig. At 15.2 oz and 5.5" long it should be a dream to carry.

My brother thanks you for supporting his family....he works there.



Cute little pistols, it is on my Christmas list, but I think Santa will be bringing me coal instead....





Scott (never apologize for a pistol) B

 

[Finatic]

My "Do I have your Attention" home gun,
View attachment 105114

Thats a nice piece, and I'm glad to see the shot shell so you don't take out every neighbor on the street.:wink:

That's the whole reason I put up with a heavy gun. Low to No collateral damage.

 

[gimpy]

Well after a few weeks of looking, touching
and shooting, we decide not only on one
handgun, but the second one for me:

My wife purchased the Pink Lady,38sp, Charter arms product
and I purchased a Taurus 85 UL, 38 sp.

So I guess you can say we went and purchased a pair of 38's:

 

[wolftat]

Well after a few weeks of looking, touching
and shooting, we decide not only on one
handgun, but the second one for me:

My wife purchased the Pink Lady,38sp, Charter arms product
and I purchased a Taurus 85 UL, 38 sp.

So I guess you can say we went and purchased a pair of 38's:

I always liked a pair of 38s.:wink:

 

[Whaler]

I like the looks of that Taurus.

 

[robutacion]

Wow, I don't really know why I missed this thread from the very beginning, great stuff shared on here and I was a bit disappointed with butchf18a on page 7 post #63, totally unnecessary, particularly for a gun owners as he claimed...!:frown:

Anyway, read the whole thing and saw some guns that I saw very recently on my thread about, why guns can't be made pretty...! Yes, I'm talking about some of Ed's guns, pretty stuff indeed...!

I kept wondering why I never saw this thread so, I looked for a clue and I found it by following the title backwards into the IAP threads system and what did I find, this thread was created in "casual conversation", and this was a section that I blocked, as in the pass, every time I had a thread/post that stirred me up pretty badly and endup in arguments, was always something coming from the casual conversation area so, I found out how to block if and not show up on my "new post" section that I always use to navigate the forums.

This was some time ago and I never missed it, at all however, a few days ago, I had this issue that I wanted to share with you folks, and I looked for the best location to start it and that was the casual conversation.

You guys know what thread I'm talking about as it has to do with guns grips but, and for some reason, I start seeing other threads becoming available for me to read/access under the "new posts" option so, I wonder, was my blockage setting lifted when I recently posted on that blocked subject...???

I may need Jeff to clarify it for me...!

Apart from all that, I still want to keep "casual conversation" blocked from me, that is the safest way to prevent unnecessary aggravation from me...!

PS: If the bad guys/gals want to terminate your existence for whatever reason/motive, there is only one thing that can prevent that from happening and that is, if you have a gun that you can and know how to use and turn the odds around 180°. Have you ever seen a "bully" in is arrogance mask, being surprised with a gun barrel pointed at their faces...??? Priceless...!:wink::biggrin::biggrin:

Cheers
George

Cheers
George

 

[cwolfs69]

i have that taurus and it is one of the most comfortable carry guns i own. lite weight, and small print on the side.

 

[SDB777]

...and this relates to turning pens how? Before you bash me as some sort of anti-gun fanatic, I own 10 firearms. Still I don't post pens on weapons sites and guns have no place on pen site.

Actually, you should try posting pens on those sites...in fact, I would encourage it. Seriously, as a Bound Founder on the handloadersbench.com we love bullet pens!!! And I invite you to come on over.....anytime!




Scott (my pups don't like gun oil...go figure) B

 

[gimpy]

Well after a few weeks of looking, touching
and shooting, we decide not only on one
handgun, but the second one for me:

My wife purchased the Pink Lady,38sp, Charter arms product
and I purchased a Taurus 85 UL, 38 sp.

So I guess you can say we went and purchased a pair of 38's:

I always liked a pair of 38s.:wink:

especially when you can hold one in each hand,

 

[edstreet]

...and this relates to turning pens how? Before you bash me as some sort of anti-gun fanatic, I own 10 firearms. Still I don't post pens on weapons sites and guns have no place on pen site.

Actually, you should try posting pens on those sites...in fact, I would encourage it. Seriously, as a Bound Founder on the handloadersbench.com we love bullet pens!!! And I invite you to come on over.....anytime!




Scott (my pups don't like gun oil...go figure) B

Well on the firearm group I am on there is more talk of photography than firearms. On the photography group there is more talk of firearms than photography. Go figure.

You will also find that in the knife groups there is some heavy ego's and it takes a more direct approach to dealing with things and not beating around the bush. While this group would often welcome other things they do tend to look down on them.

Also if you look you will find that I have been able to successfully integrate firearms and pens.