Caution Gun Pictures

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Jim, These are not 'eds rules' by no stretch. These are realistic values when you deal with the real world, that is when you have women, kids, elderly, those with medical problems i.e CTS and the like. Not one of your so called fabled snipers will fit into those brackets I just mentioned as they are exceptions.

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone came out of the woodwork to pull the machoism so let me clear a few things up. The distance for the thumb bit is for frame of the fit. Imagine taking someone's very tiny hand and having them reach the slide release, for many it takes a third hand. Truth of the matter is classic design excludes everything non-adult male and your way of schooling fits that dated design. The designs we have today far out reaches the mindset that you have.
 
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Ty,
That's another great feature on most of the Sig's... the decocker. They are drop-safe and no safeties to fumble with. The DA/SA is nice as well. Mine is 10lb/4lb respectively and I believe your P226 is the same. I believe yours is a 1/2" longer and a little more weight.
 
hmmmm....I'm getting old. My last handgun was a 1976 Ruger Blackhawk .357 mag. Single Action 7.5 in. bbl. Couldn't shoot near as fast as them little fellers you folks are packing but I once nailed a woodchuck at 107 paces (about 90 yards) standing, off hand. Also, took a 7 point buck with it once, one shot at about 45 yards. Sold it when I moved from New York to Delaware.
 
Yes, there is that. Even though I have 9's and 45's enough, I can still hit better with my 40 year old S&W mod. 19 revolver. Is it a better gun? Not necessarily. But there is a lot more ammo down the tube with that gun, and if not perfect, practice at least makes better.

When I bought my first 9, a Taurus 92f, I took it out to try it out. Oh, it was fun, but I was spraying lead all over the place, but not hitting the pop can at about 30 yards. First shot with the Mod. 19 went right through the can. I am getting better with the autos, though. ;-)

Scott.
 
08K.80 said:
Ty, That's another great feature on most of the Sig's... the decocker. They are drop-safe and no safeties to fumble with. The DA/SA is nice as well. Mine is 10lb/4lb respectively and I believe your P226 is the same. I believe yours is a 1/2" longer and a little more weight.
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Kelly, yes it is an awesome feature. Decocker. Yes that's what it's called. I don't know the lbs on mine but when I get back I'm going to get it worked a bit new sites (the triticon ones are okay but I know there are better), work the trigger, and get a tungsten recoil rod. If I'm paying attention to all fundamentals and mechanics and have some decent ammo (junk works but it's not as accurate at distance) I can hit an awesome group from about 50 yds. That's the farthest I've tried because that's the farthest the range I've been to has.
 
jyreene said:
You had me until the last one Ed. It doesn't matter in the end if she's not comfortable with it or doesn't practice correctly.
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Sorry, most of the things I mentioned was areas that I have seen people have problems with. Mostly with small hands, weak grips from injuries and the like. i.e. if they cant rack the slide because it requires more pressure than they can give there is some major problems. My sister has small hands and unable to release the slide lock on 1911's, also unable to rack the slide or pull back the hammer due to the weight needed so we looked at other models for her.
 
jyreene said:
Kelly, yes it is an awesome feature. Decocker. Yes that's what it's called. I don't know the lbs on mine but when I get back I'm going to get it worked a bit new sites (the triticon ones are okay but I know there are better), work the trigger, and get a tungsten recoil rod. If I'm paying attention to all fundamentals and mechanics and have some decent ammo (junk works but it's not as accurate at distance) I can hit an awesome group from about 50 yds. That's the farthest I've tried because that's the farthest the range I've been to has.
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I opted out for the trijicon sights for two reasons. First, the cost and second, I've been told and read several sources that say they die out.
I do wish I had gotten the SRT though. I tried one at the range and it makes a big difference. I do have a stainless guide rod. Only difference I notice is the extra weight. Nothing for performance.

Be safe! And thanks for what you do, so I can continue doing what I do!
 
edstreet said:
Sorry, most of the things I mentioned was areas that I have seen people have problems with. Mostly with small hands, weak grips from injuries and the like. i.e. if they cant rack the slide because it requires more pressure than they can give there is some major problems. My sister has small hands and unable to release the slide lock on 1911's, also unable to rack the slide or pull back the hammer due to the weight needed so we looked at other models for her.
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No worries Ed. To me that falls in the take it to the range and try it. Or even at the store. She can't rack it then don't get it.

08K.80 said:
I opted out for the trijicon sights for two reasons. First, the cost and second, I've been told and read several sources that say they die out. I do wish I had gotten the SRT though. I tried one at the range and it makes a big difference. I do have a stainless guide rod. Only difference I notice is the extra weight. Nothing for performance. Be safe! And thanks for what you do, so I can continue doing what I do!
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I'm not big on the sights either. They are already dead and I bought it with them on it. The extra weight is the point for me. I like it there. Makes the follow on shots quicker and more accurate and manages recoil that much better.

I will be safe thank you. And your welcome. I love this job and this country.
 
Very nice model. It is spendy, especially for a .380 and that their 2022 is a much more reasonable price point, but to each his own... My first was a $$$ HK USP 40 ...

One thing I've read for night sights is glow-in-dark model paint from your hobby store. It doesn't need a reactive light like tritium ones can and is dirt cheap.
 
Sub Vet 10 said:
Very nice model. It is spendy, especially for a .380 and that their 2022 is a much more reasonable price point, but to each his own... My first was a $$$ HK USP 40 ... One thing I've read for night sights is glow-in-dark model paint from your hobby store. It doesn't need a reactive light like tritium ones can and is dirt cheap.
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Reactive light? I have 3 guns with tritium sights and they glow dang bright without having to be exposed to any light.
 
Sub Vet 10 said:
Very nice model. It is spendy, especially for a .380 and that their 2022 is a much more reasonable price point, but to each his own... My first was a $$$ HK USP 40 ...

One thing I've read for night sights is glow-in-dark model paint from your hobby store. It doesn't need a reactive light like tritium ones can and is dirt cheap.
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Kind of like comparing apples to oranges. The P2022 has a polymer frame and is the same size as my CZ 9mm. I picked the P238 as a small easily hidden carry weapon and price was not a factor just bought what I thought was the best out there.
 
Smitty37 said:
edstreet said:
wait, people use sights on a pistol?
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Only if they want to hit something intentionally.
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I suppose you are right.
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:) it's called point shooting. The sights are not used at all. This is from my G27
 

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edstreet said:
Smitty37 said:
edstreet said:
wait, people use sights on a pistol?
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Only if they want to hit something intentionally.
Click to expand...

I suppose you are right.
attachment.php


:) it's called point shooting. The sights are not used at all. This is from my G27
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Using your sights would have probably tightened your grouping and landed all those stray holes within the black circle.:wink:

Of coarse you were using a Glock, so maybe it wouldn't help to use the sights.:tongue::wink:
 
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My guess would be ..at about 20 maybe 30 feet. I understand "point shooting" it has been around since the early 1800's (even before I was born). I is defensive shooting at close quarters when there is not time for regular aimed shooting. Most people can learn it but to be very effective you need good hand eye coordination. My own vision right now is not good enough because my right and left eye don't see objects in the same place or at the same "distance" (right eye close and fuzzy, left eye distant and sharp) when I point I am never really pointing at what I think I'm pointing at.
edstreet said:
Smitty37 said:
edstreet said:
wait, people use sights on a pistol?
Click to expand...
Only if they want to hit something intentionally.
Click to expand...

I suppose you are right.
attachment.php


:) it's called point shooting. The sights are not used at all. This is from my G27
Click to expand...
 
Smitty37 said:
My guess would be ..at about 20 maybe 30 feet. I understand "point shooting" it has been around since the early 1800's (even before I was born). I is defensive shooting at close quarters when there is not time for regular aimed shooting. Most people can learn it but to be very effective you need good hand eye coordination. My own vision right now is not good enough because my right and left eye don't see objects in the same place or at the same "distance" (right eye close and fuzzy, left eye distant and sharp) when I point I am never really pointing at what I think I'm pointing at.
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I am not sure about the hand eye coordination bit but I do realize that is a very large and broad arena to deal with. The average person has binocular vision until the object reaches something like 300 or so yards (not sure of the exact number) then vision becomes mono-fixation. Some of us do not have binocular vision at all so we mono-fixate even at short distances. Mono-fixation is where one eye is used to view the object and the other eye only picks up motion but not focus on the object.

The practice of point shooting is using the persons natural aim, it is the very same concept with clay shooting with shotguns. Humans are natural pointers, meaning you point with your finger with out really looking at the finger and it's spot on target.

Then when the day is over with and all is said and done the bottom line is it's fun to shoot targets at the range and it can be a very enlightening, rewarding and very educational experience if you do things correctly.
 
Misspoke

I misspoke - I said point shooting has been around since the 1800's - it has actually always been around and actually in the beginning of shooting it was the only kind of shooting because sights had not been invented yet.

It was first described in Army shooting manuals in the 1800's. It is fun and I suppose most shooters (shooting for fun) tried it at one time or another. Actually I could hit a vital area in a silhoutte at about 4 yards, drawing, cocking, pointing and firing my single action Ruger Blackhawk. Much beyond that and things got pretty iffy. On the other hand, I could probably have added a couple more yards with practice.

But then, I shot clay birds using a 1.5 power scope on my shotgun. I had a deer bbl and interchangeable modified bbl for my Ithaca Model 37 - I left the scope mounted when I shot trap. So I really did 'point' shooting with a little help there.
 
Bigj51 said:
Sub Vet 10 said:
Very nice model. It is spendy, especially for a .380 and that their 2022 is a much more reasonable price point, but to each his own... My first was a $$$ HK USP 40 ... One thing I've read for night sights is glow-in-dark model paint from your hobby store. It doesn't need a reactive light like tritium ones can and is dirt cheap.
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Reactive light? I have 3 guns with tritium sights and they glow dang bright without having to be exposed to any light.
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I've read that some need a flash of light for them to activate if kept in the dark- like a solar powered light, so to speak.
 
...and this relates to turning pens how? Before you bash me as some sort of anti-gun fanatic, I own 10 firearms. Still I don't post pens on weapons sites and guns have no place on pen site.
 
butchf18a said:
...and this relates to turning pens how? Before you bash me as some sort of anti-gun fanatic, I own 10 firearms. Still I don't post pens on weapons sites and guns have no place on pen site.
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No one is going to bash you --- it is as related to pen turning as people posting things about their car, or having a new baby, or a grandchild graduating from high school, or any of a hundred other things we chat about from time to time here in the Casual Conversat Forum.
 
glenspens said:
This is one of the things i like on this forum you can talk ,post and get answers to all most anything ,but in the end it just guys and gals doing what they love..... pens
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Really now. If you really look there are many parallels in working on firearms and making pens. Also making knives and various other things as well. To say the blanket statement that you just did is grossly wrong and shows very little consideration or understanding of the broader scope of things.

Just look at the recent finish post for things like peppermills where overwhelmingly people posted oil finishes and GASP gunstocks came into the picture of how to best finish them.

Each arena can teach the other arena a vast amount of information, you just need to look, listen and keep your eyes open to the facts.
 
I bought a sig p239 years ago and love that gun to death. I thought about making a grip for it out of wood but its just too many small cavities and cut outs to make it worth the end product. maybe some day when i have the urge or a laser cutter :D i wish it was just screwed on scales and not the rear of the gun too
 
Awesome Sig!!! Looking for a CZ 75 sp 01 for myself, but none available in the socialist republic of California. As to gun for the wife, my wife has trouble racking a pistol, but is very comfortable with my S&W 686 357 revolver. Also, with a revolver, you don't get a failure to fire or a jam. If you get a misfire, just pull the triger for the next round in the cylinder. With a 357, you can practice with 38 special, (cheap) then use 357 mag. for self defense.
 
Jim Crouch said:
Awesome Sig!!! Looking for a CZ 75 sp 01 for myself, but none available in the socialist republic of California. As to gun for the wife, my wife has trouble racking a pistol, but is very comfortable with my S&W 686 357 revolver. Also, with a revolver, you don't get a failure to fire or a jam. If you get a misfire, just pull the triger for the next round in the cylinder. With a 357, you can practice with 38 special, (cheap) then use 357 mag. for self defense.
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Jim, you might give these guys a call they seem to have an in with CZ. Whittaker Guns
 
Whaler said:
Jim Crouch said:
Awesome Sig!!! Looking for a CZ 75 sp 01 for myself, but none available in the socialist republic of California. As to gun for the wife, my wife has trouble racking a pistol, but is very comfortable with my S&W 686 357 revolver. Also, with a revolver, you don't get a failure to fire or a jam. If you get a misfire, just pull the triger for the next round in the cylinder. With a 357, you can practice with 38 special, (cheap) then use 357 mag. for self defense.
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Jim, you might give these guys a call they seem to have an in with CZ. Whittaker Guns
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Actually I did most of my practice with 38 special wad cutters --- very low cost - the 38 special round is strong enough for self defense as well if you want. That round was used by law enforcement people for years and years and the 38+ also has more than enough power. It is fairly comparable to the popular 9mm round. I do trust a revolver more for self defense than I do an automatic but the automatics can be less bulky.
 
Jim Crouch said:
Awesome Sig!!! Looking for a CZ 75 sp 01 for myself, but none available in the socialist republic of California. As to gun for the wife, my wife has trouble racking a pistol, but is very comfortable with my S&W 686 357 revolver. Also, with a revolver, you don't get a failure to fire or a jam. If you get a misfire, just pull the triger for the next round in the cylinder. With a 357, you can practice with 38 special, (cheap) then use 357 mag. for self defense.
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Jim,
That is a misconception. Revolvers can and do jam. It's not real common and with a semi-auto, jams aren't as common as some are lead to believe. The key is to keep it clean and greased/oiled and not to limp wrist. Fortunately, I have not had a jam, FTF or FTE.
 
Smitty37 said:
... It is fairly comparable to the popular 9mm round. ...
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I wouldn't call them comparable. Not at muzzle energy energy anyway ... .38 runs from >200 to ~300 ft/lbs for a "+P" round. A 9mm runs ~ 350 to > 450 ft/lbs for a "+P".

For pressure a .38 runs ~20,000 PSI, while a 9mm hits 39,500 PSI. Because of the low pressure bullets don't expand well... meaning less take down.

I'll take a 9 over a 38 for self defense any day. For CCW, a .380 makes a nice compromise because of its size.
 
LagniappeRob said:
Smitty37 said:
... It is fairly comparable to the popular 9mm round. ...
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I wouldn't call them comparable. Not at muzzle energy energy anyway ... .38 runs from >200 to ~300 ft/lbs for a "+P" round. A 9mm runs ~ 350 to > 450 ft/lbs for a "+P".

For pressure a .38 runs ~20,000 PSI, while a 9mm hits 39,500 PSI. Because of the low pressure bullets don't expand well... meaning less take down.

I'll take a 9 over a 38 for self defense any day. For CCW, a .380 makes a nice compromise because of its size.
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To each his own - hollow points expand just fine in the 38 special and the 38 special can pack a bit heavier round in factory loads. If you are using handloads on a .357 mag frame you can also safely soup up 38 special rounds. I found hand load data for rounds up to 200 grain for the 38 and only up to 147 for the 9mm.
 
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The SV infinity and the Para .40 cal stay locked in the safe unless I am going out to put a few holes in something, or hiking in the desert.

You need some holes in those targets, Dick.
 
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LagniappeRob said:
Smitty37 said:
... It is fairly comparable to the popular 9mm round. ...
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I wouldn't call them comparable. Not at muzzle energy energy anyway ... .38 runs from >200 to ~300 ft/lbs for a "+P" round. A 9mm runs ~ 350 to > 450 ft/lbs for a "+P".

For pressure a .38 runs ~20,000 PSI, while a 9mm hits 39,500 PSI. Because of the low pressure bullets don't expand well... meaning less take down.

I'll take a 9 over a 38 for self defense any day. For CCW, a .380 makes a nice compromise because of its size.
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Pressure does not have to do with bullet expansion, the bullet itself and velocity determine expansion. Pressure is more related to the stress put on the pistol or revolver when the round is fired. Extremely high pressure can and sometimes does cause considerable damage to the firearm and the shooter.
 
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Math is math. Pressure is used to overcome friction and accelerate the bullet. .38's come out slower leading to less fps at impact. The .38 is not considered a very good round in terms of expansion... thus the development of several "soft loads" to compensate for the slowness.

Check out: FIREARMS TUTORIAL

Hollowpoint bullet design facilitates turning the bullet "inside out" and flattening the front, referred to as "expansion." Expansion reliably occurs only at velocities exceeding 1200 fps, so is suited only to the highest velocity handguns.
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Most .38 Special loads don't hit anywhere near that... most are around or less than 1000fps. I'm not trying to "dis" the .38 - I have one. Will it stop someone, yes. Does it have the same stopping power as a 9? Forget everything else, energy @ a given distance the 9 will have a significant advantage over the 38. Not to mention you can get 5 or 6 shots from a revolver, and I can carry 16+1 in my 9. Personally I'd rather carry .50 Action Express (upwards of 10 TIMES the energy of a .38) in a Desert Eagle, but kind of hard to conceal. Not mention the last time I looked they were running $1300 or so, plus almost $2 per shot.
 
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