Caught someone claiming my work as theirs. What now?

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Joebobber

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I have been making duck calls for a guy for about a year and a half. He asked me to make a hybrid call but he wanted me to use his band. I got them in the mail and they say the name of a company on them which I found odd. I looked up his company and he claims he makes all of his duck and goose calls himself among other things. Every picture he has posted is of a call I made taken off my wife's Facebook page. Even his descriptions are what my wife writes. He gives me and our company no credit at all anywhere and is trying to pass off my stuff as his. I don't mind someone reselling my work, but to claim it as his I have a major problem with it.







What do I do now? Anyone dealt with anything like this before? Our company is in ND, he is in VA.







Please please please any help asap would be GREATLY appreciated!
 
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Darios

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First question is how much to you need/want his custom? There are a range of options that I can see from continuing to business as is and letting him get away with it, to going full nuclear with ratings/social media assault etc. That first question will drive it all.

I am not a lawyer but I don't believe that legal redress is an option unless you can prove that his actions have specifically harmed your business.

I'd kind of thinking that starting to put your own logo or chop somewhere on your pieces before you ship to him might be just the right balance.
 

Mortalis

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I thought there was a posting of this theme a little while ago. I wish I could remember who OP'd it or what is was titled so I could link it.

You could send this person a registered letter asking that he cease and desist with the vocabulary describing the items as his own manufacture. I dont know if it would have any impact though. I'm not a lawyer. I would recommend touching base with a lawyer though.
 

rixstix

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Use the FB "Report" fraud or copyright button. Beyond that, probably little else without spending money. A descent person would respond favorably to a stern cease & desist letter delivered via certified mail.
 

Joebobber

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I mean I don't get it. His business was started in 2023 and besides my stuff all he sells are shirts n hats n stuff with his logo on. Its like he built a business around my stuff.



Why would someone Claim something someone else did AND put that on the internet where it can be discovered
 

Darios

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Why would someone Claim something someone else did AND put that on the internet where it can be discovered

Because it's working. He may not even think he's doing anything wrong - he's ordering the pieces, spec'ing that they have his logo on them. If he wasn't actually claiming your work as his, he's ultimately no different then the folks who buy things from China and resell here.

Mind - I am totally in your court here. I'd be livid too if it happened to me.
 

Joebobber

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I just looked up Cease and Desist templates but non of the options fit. It was either harassment, copyright infringement, or trademark infringement. I believe this is more of a theft thing right? Like stealing someone's intellectual property?
 

Darios

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Possibly - but just playing devil's advocate here - he could then argue that by purchasing the item from you and asking that you add his logo to it he has entered into a legitimate supplier/vendor relationship.

It's why I'm thinking that - if you want to bother still getting his money - starting to put your own mark on the pieces is wonderfully maliciously compliant.

edit - maybe not on a moment of reflection. By fundamentally changing the nature of the product he could then argue that it is you who have violated the contract and at least demand a full refund for your sale to him.
That's my caveat. If it was me I'd do it and just sit on the money and refund it in return for the items back.
 

Joebobber

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Im not so upset about him reselling my stuff. It's the fact that he claims he makes them. He gives me no credit. Like I said he uses my wife's description, pictures, everything but just claims he spends all day on his lathe making them. I do see your point n thought about if i should finish this 1 and then be done with him or give him the option to give me credit.
 

jttheclockman

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As someone said it is as if they bought things from China and put a name on it or some little dodad and they claim they make them. I see this all the time in the craft circle world and some shows have tried eliminating this and try to get real crafters but it is hard to do because sometimes juried is subjective too. I say if you feel strongly then open a dialog with him and be prepared to stop filling his orders. If he moves on that is his loss. I am sure the business maybe lucrative but maybe you can partner with him. Talk to him.
 

Kenny Durrant

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I see your point as well. I'm no lawyer either but I do have morels. If you feel it hasn't done anything to hurt your business then I'd reach out to the person and ask him why. Let him know how you feel. The least he could do is not copy you or your wife's pictures and descriptions or the product. The only thing I'd say he might have in his favor is when you put his logo on the calls your manufacturing a product for him. Then if he clams he actually made it he'd just be lying and maybe not stealing. Don't get me wrong you have a legit issue. The least he could do is put his band on it himself so he'd have a hand in it. I'd think he needs to give you credit or reword his sales pitch.
 

Joebobber

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Yeah i could make the call but not put his band on it. Kind of gets around that but then by hhim putting the band on he is making part of it. I just can't believe someone would be so ballsey as to say they made something they didn't. They even have a video of them in a parade blowing calls I made n stuff. How hard is it to just not say you made them or say I made them.



I think my best Option is to talk to him. Get him to change it. I mean i stop then what does he have for a business
 

Curly

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You could consider putting a watermark on all the pictures you put on the net or photograph them in such a way as to have them sitting on your business card or logo. That would stop/make very difficult for him or most others from lifting your pictures. It would at least make him take his own pictures. Find out about how to do simple copyrights on your wife's descriptions so that the symbol is part of the description. Good luck dealing with the low life.
 

dogcatcher

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Several major call companies outsource their production. They send a proto type to chiba and get back the call. Others use various molding companies to produce their toneboards.

Echo duck call company sells their tonebiards and hundreds if not thousands of so called call makers buy them and make "custom" calls without giving Echo any credit for their part.

This person turned you into a manufacturer. A common practice in a lot of markers.

The photos give you recourse. But the call, once it is his he can sell as he see fits.
 
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Find a business lawyer who works with these things and get a "cease and desist" letter to send to them outlining how they improperly representing your artistic pieces and in essence stealing intellectual property. Emphasize that the continued behavior of misrepresenting of your product will result in them being contact by a lawyer with possible legal action to follow.

Bottom line is that you should stop making any products for this individual. Once you settle the legal issues cut all ties and move on.
 
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Several major call companies outsource their production. They send a proto type to chiba and get back the call. Others use various molding companies to produce their toneboards.

Echo duck call company sells their tonebiards and hundreds if not thousands of so called call makers buy them and make "custom" calls without giving Echo any credit for their part.

This person turned you into a manufacturer. A common practice in a lot of markers.

The photos give you recourse. But the call, once it is his he can sell as he see fits.

That person cannot legally resell or represent a product he bought as his own work. The questionable character in question did not contract manufacturer work and therefor is not legally entited to do as he is doing, especially lying about where the product came from. Even Walmart has lost lawsuits concerning this topic and misrepresenting products and where they came from.
 

David350

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From a practical standpoint, I guess I would ask which is more important to you, getting credit for your work, or his getting his money? Don't get me wrong, I think its very sleazy at a minimum what they are doing. You could also use your knowledge of what he is doing to leverage a higher price for you if you want. In other words, let him know you are willing to make units for him to sell, even with his banding, but it will cost him more if he doesn't credit your work...
 

maxwell_smart007

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It depends on whether you're upset with not getting credit, or with not getting fair compensation, or with the deceit. If it were me, I'd want nothing further to do with him. Ethically, I wouldn't want to be associated with someone that seems to have no moral issue with stealing credit for work and selling it as his, and actually taking your photos and wording off your page. If it were me, I'd send his band back, and ask him to remove all of my products from his webpage. I'd also read up on DMCA copywrite protections.
 

jttheclockman

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Let me ask this and of course we have had this conversation here as well. What is the difference of what he is doing other than the photos , than what people do when they buy already made blanks from people and put it on a kit and say look what I made and sell for money. They did not make the kit and they did not make the blanks. yet they call themselves a pen maker and sell as their work. The photo thing is the tricky part here and would either watermark his photos or call and tell him your thoughts. As someone said you have now become a manufacturer and you are now China. :)
 

Velcrodog

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It depends on whether you're upset with not getting credit, or with not getting fair compensation, or with the deceit. If it were me, I'd want nothing further to do with him. Ethically, I wouldn't want to be associated with someone that seems to have no moral issue with stealing credit for work and selling it as his, and actually taking your photos and wording off your page. If it were me, I'd send his band back, and ask him to remove all of my products from his webpage. I'd also read up on DMCA copywrite protections.
pehaps get a small branding iron with Made by...on it. Unless you have agreed not to do so, brand the next order after he pays you of course. See what he does. He can either try to get his money back from you (ha) or deface the brand mark probably making them unsellable. Nkthing wrong with that as most maufactures place brands on their products, many wood turners as well.
 

monophoto

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I'm not a lawyer - - -

There's no requirement that a retailer actually manufacture the stuff he sells - in fact, very few retailers are actually manufacturers. Most of the stuff we buy every day is actually manufactured by someone other than the company we buy it from. Sure, the retailer has an obligation to the end purchaser to supply what he sells, and most retailers offer some kind of warranty. And there may (or may not) be an arrangement between the retailer and the manufacturer to address those warranty matters, but that's almost never something that we as the end consumer know about.

So unless you entered into a specific agreement with the retailer that addressed issues such as labeling and warranties, I don't think there is any legal issue at all here.

The matter of whether the retailer has any moral obligation to you is another matter. Frankly, I don't think that the retailer is morally obligated to disclose who made the calls that he is selling, but obviously it would be nice if he were more transparent.

The approach I would take is to talk to the vendor - keep cool; confrontation won't help here. Tell him that you want to take your turning to the next level and establish a public reputation for the work that you do, and to accomplish that you are creating a trade name for the calls that you make, and that you plan to include a maker's mark on future calls. Tell him that you welcome the opportunity to sell your calls through his retail business, but that in the future they will have to be sold with your trade name and maker's mark.

I would expect that in most cases, the retailer would not have a problem with the new arrangement. But if it does, then you can shake hands and wish him well as he searches for a new supplier of calls.
 
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BULLWINKLE

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Legal issues or not (I'm not a lawyer) I would probably tell this clown to find another maker to pass off their handiwork as his own. I don't think he violated any laws but I do think he's an inconsiderate a**hole to not give you credit. If he made an honest agreement to do what he's doing, and you agreed, that's a different story. Why continue to do business with a person that has no ethics ?
 

GaryMGg

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He claims he is making these with his own hands: put his feet to the fire!
Are you his sole source?
Triple your price to him.
He'll either continue buy from you or go broke for lack of inventory.
 

jrista

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I just looked up Cease and Desist templates but non of the options fit. It was either harassment, copyright infringement, or trademark infringement. I believe this is more of a theft thing right? Like stealing someone's intellectual property?

It sounds like fraud, to me. He is fraudulently selling your products as his own. Are there no templates for fraud?
 

Mortalis

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Let me ask this and of course we have had this conversation here as well. What is the difference of what he is doing other than the photos , than what people do when they buy already made blanks from people and put it on a kit and say look what I made and sell for money. They did not make the kit and they did not make the blanks. yet they call themselves a pen maker and sell as their work. The photo thing is the tricky part here and would either watermark his photos or call and tell him your thoughts. As someone said you have now become a manufacturer and you are now China. :)
I think there is a big difference between what the OP's customer is doing and what someone that purchases all the parts and pieces of a pen are doing. The OP's customer is receiving the finished good and reselling it as their workmanship. A pen blank cannot be used to scribble ink on a piece of paper the way it is received. The pen kit, although technically it could be used to scribble ink the way it is received is not the way a "pen maker" would resell it.

All that being said, there is nothing illegal, according to the articles I've read, that the OP's customer is doing. Immoral, yeah. Illegal, no! Unless the OP puts a registration or patent on his product the customer, who legally purchased the product, can do whatever they want with that product.

Now, about the pictures and descriptions, this IMHO is not illegal. I dont feel it is right but I dont think it is illegal. Facebook has this type of thing going on all the time. Again, the OP needs to somehow protect his/her property using something that would indicate that a copy posted was his to begin with but again without registration or copyright, not illegal. Again I consider it immoral.
 

Joebobber

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This is the guy here. Check it out and you can see for yourself Even where he says he can't make his own toneboards because he doesn't have a jig (all of everything he says actually) is almost word for word what I told him. I can post pictures of the calls on his site if you don't believe they are mine. Every single picture of a call is mine. His story of why he makes calls is what I told him about myself.
 

jttheclockman

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Why he is doing it is a mystery that only you can confront him on. You are beating yourself up but until you talk with him you too need a plan of action. Do you want to keep supplying or do you want to cut ties and let him find another source. It can screw you both up either way. Good luck and let us know what he says.
 

thewishman

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If his sales are an important source of money that you want or need, you might consider raising the price.

If you want to stop supplying him, that works, too.

If you want to make your calls more valuable to him, at an appropriately higher price point, offer to make the calls with his band as custom work.

It may be much more difficult and frustrating to cause him (or attempt to cause him) to change his tactics.

Anger aside, it comes down to this - is there a price that would make you okay with the way he is doing business.

One last note. He can reach this thread in the public section of the IAP without signing up or logging into the site. I would ask a moderator to move this thread to Marketing or a similar forum limited to members only.
 

thewishman

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From a practical standpoint, I guess I would ask which is more important to you, getting credit for your work, or his getting his money? Don't get me wrong, I think its very sleazy at a minimum what they are doing. You could also use your knowledge of what he is doing to leverage a higher price for you if you want. In other words, let him know you are willing to make units for him to sell, even with his banding, but it will cost him more if he doesn't credit your work...

Just reread the previous posts and saw that David said it first and better.
 

Darios

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Sounds like an idiotic move on his part to tick off your only supplier.
Well, the only supplier of his only functional product at least. I'm certain he's keeping the Chinese suppliers of his hats and koozies happy.
 

Fine Engineer

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Direct from the Dirty Duck website;
"We offer Duck calls, Goose calls all hand turned by myself. Also have a wide variety of apparel, like hats, shirts, and hoodies."

"All calls are turned on a lathe to high standards, we do wood and acrylics barrels all sanded down to 20,000 grit made to perfection. Can make any call for you in almost any color, with a wide variety of bands from custom, bronze, aluminum, polished , and even marble bands. We do turn some of our own inserts but most of time use echo call inserts do to not having a jig yet, but it's something we are definitional working on. Most calls will be pre made but will do custom orders, some calls cost more then Others do to type of wood/acrylic it's made of ."

I suspect that , as others have said, this isn't strictly illegal, but is certainly unethical. Just claiming credit for the product is one thing, but to copy everything creative on your part is well beyond the pale. If he had used language like "we have these made for us to our demanding specifications" or "These are hand crafted by skilled artisans exclusively for Dirty Duck", or something like that, that would likely be acceptable (though it would be even better if they gave you credit specifically), but to flat-out claim that he made them when he did nothing of the kind is really too much.

I agree that you should call him out on this practice, and adjust your relationship based on the reaction. If he isn't willing to change anything or give you more money or credit, I'd cut him loose. You are making a very high quality product, and should have no problem selling yourself or finding a more honest seller to partner with.
 

jrista

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Personally, I wouldn't stand for it. Its blatant lies, building a business on the back of someone else. Its plain and simply shameful of him, and it really shouldn't stand. Call him out. I've also been into photography for years, this kind of thing can get REALLY out of hand. I've met a number of wedding photographers who have had their work effectively stolen by absolute frauds, who built entire businesses based on other people's wedding photography, when their own photography was an absolute joke. This in the long run, allowed these fraud photographers to defraud hundreds of thousands of dollars from new married couples, for horrible wedding photos and albums. Those poor couples then had to fight legal battles to get their money back, etc. etc.. Its really not good, to let this kind of behavior stand. Illegal or not, one way or another, for the good of yourself AND others, I'd say try to put a stop to it. Maybe he just stays at this level...maybe he takes it to the next level of fraud, and then maybe he eventually actually gets into actual criminal activity, that detrimentally affects other people (perhaps even yourself.) I'd put a stop to it, if you can...

Anyway, my... 🪙 🪙
 
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