Can't seem to hold them together

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mikespenturningz

mikespenturningz

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
4,368
Location
Claremont NH
Ok I have been working on 4 blanks and they have been absolutely kicking me around. Of the last 6 pens I have made I have not been able to keep them together while drilling or for that matter even turning them down to a place where I can drill them. I have tried using a new bottle of glue with no luck hoping it was the glue but that doesn't seem to be it. I would expect to see temperature and humidity bother thing a little bit but frankly I have glued up this batch of blanks 6 or 7 times and still only have one of them that might make it through the final work. This is soooo frustrating. Of that 6 pens I have actually only finished 1 of them. I will try to get the second one this afternoon.
 
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Mike find a way to reinforce the outside before drilling. Wrap in gauze or surround with popcicle sticks. Put a layer of epoxy around the blank. Try gluing with epoxy. That is all I have for you. Sorry. good luck.
 
That's frustrating. I have been finding cracks in every blank I turn lately and can't seem to use my calipers to correctly measure anymore. Makes this quite the frustrating hobby/business. Hobby for me business for others. On the bright side
Mike I show everyone your etsy site when they ask about how good pens can get.
 
jyreene said:
That's frustrating. I have been finding cracks in every blank I turn lately and can't seem to use my calipers to correctly measure anymore. Makes this quite the frustrating hobby/business. Hobby for me business for others. On the bright side
Mike I show everyone your etsy site when they ask about how good pens can get.
Click to expand...

wow nice pens mike not highjacking thread, those are just so sick! to think in 20 years I might make one that nice!
 
I started a more complex segmented than my last (first) one and after reading about blanks that explode while turning I scuffed the brass as people have said to do and then as an added measure I used a craft knife to draw lines down and then across then diagonally both ways, both sides, before using epoxy.

When it came to drilling I started it off with a small centre drill then used a 3.5mm drill bit to drill all the way through, but and this is a big but and may be completely over the top, but I turned the lathe by hand advancing the tailstock slowly, it took a few minutes. Then I used a 7.5mm drill bit and did the same again until I did the final pass with a 10mm bit.

I could feel the moment when I stared hitting the brass and everything went great, albeit slowly compared to if I used the motor.

Of course with everything going so well with no explosions, something had to happen and it did when I was sanding the corners off the blank prior to turning. The blank got very hot and the top end came unstuck, at least I have learnt not to do that again.

Another problem I ran across was that before I finished the second half of the blank, the bandsaw blade broke and as it wasn't one from my usual supplier, I couldn't find one with the same kerf, so the last cut was different to all the rest. I have learned to always have 2 of the same kerf blades whenever I start segmenting, so all is not negative.

Regards
Peter
 
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I suppose the first question is what kind of glue are you using? Epoxy (five minute or JB Weld)? Gorilla? CA? I haven't found much that's stronger than JB Weld, but because of the composition, it leaves a line. I've managed to hide it from time to time, but....

Doug
 
Sorry to here about the blowouts.It sounds like a weakness in the glue-up,I'm guessing in the metal and wood joints.Have you tried leaving the wood a little roughor roughed up the metal better? Might make for better mechanical adhesion.

The guardien I did recentlyhad no troulbe drilling w/ a drill press.I did not sand any of the cut edges,straight from the saw.No predrilling either.37/64" bit through a 7/8" blank.I know that all wood is different than metal and wood,but I think that it would hold just as well if the bonding sides were left or made rougher.

Hope you get it figured out soon.
 
Here are 2 ideas that I have used in the past. Not sure if they will help you.

1) if you can get the blank round, wrap it in cotton string then soak with CA to help hold it together for drilling

2) If you can drill each piece before cutting the segments, then you can built the blank on the tube and avoid drilling the segmented blank. I would recommend epoxy
 
Mike; When I have an unstable blank to drill, I soak it good in CA, and than wrap it tightly in duct tape with the threads running around the blank. At the very least if it comes apart, the tape keeps all the pieces together, and you can reglue. After drilling all the way through, I flood the hole with thick CA, and redrill. Sharp drills, slow speed and light pressure. Also if you don't already have one, I would invest in a Drill Dr. to keep the bits sharp, the angles correct, and most importantly the point on the bit centered. Jim S
 
I am doing nothing differently than I was doing all spring. I must have made 50 or more of this style pen over the months and now I cannot get a single one to hold together. I am using the exact same glue as before, the same types of wood and the exact same aluminum? I have given up on this entire batch and am going to start a new batch. What is most heart breaking is I have the recipe to make something I have not quite made before but it is alluding me. I had 4 blanks made that were all this new look but still using the same old cuts.... I guess I am just venting in my frustration. Thanks for the advise now time to pick myself back up and go cut some new ones.
 
That's the spirit Mike. I might take that advice too. Can't wait to see the new style. Just thinking and re reading it could be a combo of weather and glue and heat and moisture. I know that may not help but I think the humidity here has been causing my problems.
 
Mike, does the angle and direction of which the segments ( in relation to the entering drill bit) are cut impact the difficulty of drilling? Is your angle and direction different and of course the most basic question, is the bit sharp? Just some brainstorming.
 
Looking at the weather history for Claremont, NH (03743), the humidity has been fairly high. If your shop isn't air conditioned, my guess would be that the wood has absorbed quite a bit of moisture (comparatively) and if you're using CA (as you said "bottle" not "bottles" which would preclude epoxy) the moisture isn't playing well with the CA.

If the shop doesn't have A/C, have you tried taking everything inside (if you have A/C inside) and gluing it all up there?
 
Hi Lynn,

Actually these are the same cuts that I have been making with one exception. I am making these as you asked a few months ago with all of the scallops in a different color. For instance if I am using padauk and maple with padauk being the main wood, all of the scallops will be in maple. This is good fun but very frustrating because I was making these pens at a rate of several per week at one point but now with all the regluing it is breaking my time way down and I have been very unproductive.

I keep my drill doctor on my bench at all times. I can imagine doing these segmented blanks that I sharpen drills every third or fourth pen and sometimes more often than that. My skew is also very very sharp?

LL Woodworks said:
Mike, does the angle and direction of which the segments ( in relation to the entering drill bit) are cut impact the difficulty of drilling? Is your angle and direction different and of course the most basic question, is the bit sharp? Just some brainstorming.
Click to expand...
 
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Like you, I do lot's of these. Getting pen entry ready for the PITH, had a 2 in 5 success rate!! That sucks! Cleaned my copper/aluminum real well, knocked it down with a RO sander and 100g, Good epoxy, CA doesn't work well, and moderate clamping pressure. These I drill on the DP because I clamp with cauls on all sides. 4 in 5 success rate!! You just hit a bad luck streak...it will turn around!
 
.....MY $0.02 worth of advice,

.....I use 2 pieces of Aluminum angle ,90 degree 1/2" on opposite corners and use that to hold the blanks in place whilst drilling. That gives me complete support on all sides. YMMV but it works for me. Money back if it doesn't work for you! Good luck and be well...........Jan
 
I had a close to 100% success rate in the winter/spring maybe it is the humidity. I run a dehumidifier in the basement but we have had so much rain and humidity it is even getting that way in the shop. Maybe I will have to think about stronger measures to get rid of that dampness?
 
If you don't have animals to worry about you could get a few of the desiccant packets (they used them on ship to keep the recon bubbas parachutes dry while we were in the middle east). You could keep them near your wood stock. I don't know if they are completely safe to handle so I wood look in to that first.
 
Paduak

Thought from a newbie who is also an old time woodworker....

Remember that the Padauk has a good bit of oil in it( also has toxic dust). Might try some denatured alcohol before gluing.

Just one more thought!

Good Luck!
 
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